Outdoor lighting quandry

Hi,
About 6 months ago I had a landscaper install low voltage lighting in my front yard. All was fine until a couple days ago when my wife noticed that the lamps were too hot to touch. I inspected and found that the fixtures seem to be getting burned and/or melting. We have 6 and they're all doing the same thing. It seems that the bulbs create too much heat for the fixtures. It doesn't make sense - why would they use plastic around such a hot bulb? I believe that the lamps are made by Kichler, this looks like the same lamps:
http://www.kichler.com/products/product/landscape-retrofit-%28led%29-bbr-15871bbr.aspx
Here are two pics, one of the fixture with the top of the lamp removed and one of the bulb inside. I hope someone can offer advice! At this rate they're all going to melt!

I'd report that to the CPSC:
www.cpsc.gov
Maybe they should be recalled.

You should tell the landscaper they're not suitable too. Were they just installed straight out of a package by the landscaper, or customized to fit your situation?

They're either faulty or installed incorrectly, or maybe both. Definitely looks dangerous, fire hazard.

Kichler used to be a pretty decent company, reasonably good products.
I have been hearing bad things about them recently, and this may be another.

Research the fixture and the bulb. Is the right bulb (not too many watts) in the fixture?
Look at the controller. Test it. Is it putting out too much power?

Test each fixture.

You will need a tester that will tell you how many watts there are at each fixture, and to test what the controller is putting out. It will need to read in the range from about 8 watts to about 20. You are really wanting to see that each fixture is getting 11.5-12 watts. If the fixture has any info then you might find it could tolerate a slightly wider range, but seeing the burnt fixture I really would not want to risk more than 12 watts.

If all the lights are really only getting 12 watts, and the bulbs are the ones that the fixture is rated for, then you have every right to complain to Kichler.

If the controller is putting out too much power there are a few things you could do. One is to add more lights to that circuit. The other is to get a different controller. There are some that will put more watts into some terminals so that longer runs of wire or more fixtures can be used. If this terminal is in use when it should not be, then move the wire to another (lower watt) terminal.

If there was a problem with the installation, either the wrong controller, the wrong bulbs or something else done wrong, then you ought to be able to ask the installer to make it right. Certainly supply new fixtures, new controller (if that is the problem).

Total other take on the issue: Get professional quality lights and controller, not something picked up at HD or other hardware store. Sure the fixtures will be double the price, but they will last!

Your link shows a LED retrofit lamp. The pictures you posted are of an incandescent lamp. It appear that it likely is a halogen. If that is the lamp that is supposed to be in there and not an LED retro fix lamp that will plug into the socket then it looks like a bad design to me. Halegens run extremely hot.

Thanks for the replies!

Doug9345 - that's what I was thinking when I first saw it. I'm no expert (obviously), but my theory is that the fixtures are for LED's, but instead, there are halogen bulbs in the sockets. The fixtures are melting/burning because they're made for LED lights and should never see that kind of heat.
I called the landscaper who installed the lights, he came by and checked things out. He agreed that this is not right and took one of the fixtures saying he was going to return to where he got them to see what's up. Still waiting to hear back but I think he has every intention to make this right. But meanwhile, he says that when we hired him to install low voltage lighting, we opted not to get LED. That's total BS, I absolutely indicated LED lighting. I checked the receipt and it just says "Low voltage outdoor lighting", so I don't have any paperwork to support this.

I'm wondering - is it just a matter of putting LED lights into the same sockets? Do they work with the same power source? The landscaper says he's installed the same exact lamps before and never had a problem.

It may be a quality control problem at the factory where they are getting the parts mixed up between the two. As far as just plugging the LEDs into the sockets it is going to depend on if the LEDs are designed to do that or not. There is additional circuitry that an LED needs to not fry itself. If it gets built into the Bulb then yes, otherwise no.

This message was edited Sep 3, 2013 8:54 AM

Some LV light fixtures are OK to do a swap. You can buy LEDs that have the same socket style as many of the LV bulbs.

However, some fixtures do not handle this well. If you want LED lights, then buy fixtures designed for them, or that have been tested with a retrofit, and make sure you get the right retrofit LED bulb to replace whatever bulb the fixture came with.

Vista is one company that is sort of going in 3 directions with LEDs.

Many of their original fixtures can handle LED bulbs that are designed to fit in the socket that the fixture already has. (not very expensive, but not cheap, either)
Some fixtures do not work well with LEDs and Vista is trying to modify them to work (very expensive)
The are creating a whole new product line specifically for LEDs. Best way to go, price and quality.

Many irrigation stores like Ewing and Horizon carry the Vista product line, and you can research it on line at the Vista web site.

Vista is not the only company doing this, it just happens to be the one we have been using lately, so I am more familiar with them.

My theory is that the fixtures in my yard are designed for LED lights, but somehow incandescent/halogen bulbs were installed and that's why this problem has happened. The fixture around the bulb is plastic, which suggests that it's fine for LED's. I imagine that fixtures meant for incandescent/halogen bulbs would be made of glass, or something with a melting temp high enough so that melting/burning would never happen.

Anyway, this is something for the landscaper to figure out and fix. I should be hearing from him today.. I'll report back.

Yes, some bulbs (Halogen, LED and others) run really hot, and if the fixture is not right for them then you can see the damage like has happened.

The bulbs need to be the right ones, the ones the fixture was designed for.

It's been resolved. I finally got the guy to take care of it.. it wasn't easy, I could tell he wasn't happy about having to spend time fixing a job from over 6 months ago.

He replaced all of the plastic things that were melting. He also removed the hot bulbs and put in LED assemblies. He came to do it at night and I watched the poor guy burn his fingers removing one of the incandescent bulbs... duh!

Now the lights run cold and look the way they should. Even though I couldn't get the guy to admit it (he claims that the lamps were defective), it's clear that he, or one of his guys, put the wrong bulbs into the lamps. While defending himself, he said that he's installed the same lamps in yards all over town and nobody else has had a problem...

Glad it got resolved!

Me too, I'm so glad it's worked out OK without any accidents happening.
My Husband was Electrical / Mechanical Engineer (now retired) and was adamant you don't do any electric work unless you check, double check, and recheck all the equipment before you go ahead and do any work. We all used to laugh and tell him he was neurotic about electricity and electrical goods, until a neighbour tried to save some cash and do work in his home all by himself. His wife came running into our place for help the following day as a light fitting he fixxxxxed was now omitting black smoke,

It taught us all a lesson about novice know alls. the guy was a tax inspector and by all accounts, good at his job, counting money was his idea of fun, but he obviously counts his blessings now as his lovely, then LITTLE girl was OK but, very frightened at the blackened bedroom roof she was left with

Your contractor should have made several tests before he signed the job off and THEN got paid.
Best of luck and have a great seasons end with the garden, enjoy your illuminated garden area over the winter months and be careful.
Best regards. WeeNel..

I've seen 4 and 7 Watt bulbs that look like yours. It is possible that the fixture will take 4W incandescent or LED but not 7W. I've seen 4s in plastic fixtures before.