Update/Fixes Coming Today

If all goes according to schedule we should roll out a release around 2 pm Pacific (5 pm Eastern) that will take care of the spill-over/"bleeding" date and profile information in the forums, widen the text area a tad, and increase the base font size a bit.

There shouldn't be any need to clear your cache, although if something gets hung up in your browser, that's usually a good place to start troubleshooting.

This should take care of the "fine tuning" work we need to do to the forums for the time being. We know there are still additional fixes and enhancements to be made to other areas, so please focus your feedback to the following:

1) Does this release improve your use of the forums?
and
2) Do you see any NEW* problems arise? (If so, please report the specific problem and provide a link to where you encountered it.)

* There is no need to report the known outstanding issues such as the journal and PlantFiles report-an-error button. (They're looming large on our next to-do list.)

The changes have been rolled out, so please let us know if you spot any new problems. So far, everything I've checked has looked great - the font is larger, the text reading area is wider, and the date/time and member info is not spilling over into the text area.

WHOOPEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!! And the social network links are in a better place--- Congrats!

Lois' article on Cantigny Gardens looks much better than it did a few days hours ago. Brava!

http://davesgarden.com/guides/articles/view/2558/

The older articles with painful tables are still cut off, for me at least. Win 7 FF big laptop

Looking good, Terry!
Altho ... I had gotten so used to the narrow text box that now the wider one lookz all wrong to me for the moment. Funny how we adapt.

I love the new wide text box, I love the narrow margins, I can get used to this.

Terry, although the text looks okay the page looks more off than it did before. Is this the way the pages are going to look now? I have what seems to be even more empty space on the left and just about none on the right. I do realize this could just be how it seems to me.

I don't want to change any settings until all these changes take place. I did clear everything and reloaded the page.

Glad to hear most of the known issues have been fixed. Carrie, shoot me some links to articles that are still cutting off and we'll take a look.

JoParrott and seedfork - glad you like it. Thanks for working with us and sticking with us as we worked out the kinks.

summerkid - you're right; most of us adapt quicker than we think we will :-)

elsie, yes, there is a wider "white space" on the left than the right. There is an equal amount of light gray on either side of the page, but the text area is centered on the page along with the member profile column and the social media links. If you were a non-subscriber or you chose to see ads, they would fill some of that space, at least down to the point where you start to scroll downward.

Terry I wish that were true but it isn't. the page still feels off - way off.

On this thread - I have 7 inches of dead space on the left, almost 15 inches of poster/text , and a tiny bit of space on the left side.

I changed my DG settings to my browser default. I made the display smaller.

The scrolling back and forth is a pain. Trying to look at images is a bigger pain. Each photo is a new page so it goes back to the left and then I have to scroll again to even find next photo.

I know it's been a lot of work but it still isn't working for me. You can say all you want about my computer, monitor and my browser. I don't have these problems on other websites.

I am going to try to post two images. I'm going to guess it's a little fuzzy but you can see the spaces.

elsie, it doesn't look like you have your text super-large, so I'm not sure why you're having to scroll back-and-forth, especially if your browser is large enough to give you 7 inches of white space.

If you're up to it, you can try restoring your I.E. settings, and that may help. To do that, you can click on the tool (little cog wheel) in the upper right-hand corner of your screen. Then choose Internet Options from the pullldown list, and click on the Advanced tab, then click on "Reset" (near the bottom) to reset your Internet Explorer settings. It's up to you, but I used it when I.E. was causing some text to wrap no matter what size I zoomed the browser in or out.

Terry I changed from IE to Opera when all of this started.

Sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words, this picture shows how much better the new release has improved the forum view. Now instead of all that dead space on the left , tiny text and text boxes, overlapping text into the text boxes,and pictures out of order I have the much improved view, it is very much appreciated!

elsie, how did you make the display smaller?

With Opera's zoom?

Or with your resolution settings on your computer?

I downloaded Opera and I had to increase the zoom to 125% or more before it was large enough to force a left-right scrollbar to appear, and that font appears bigger than what's you have in your screenshot.

I just wrote a lengthy post to the article on corn detasseling.
When I hit preview, what a mess. It made some of the sentences 1 word long.
Broke up most sentences so they looked stupid.
If it does it here, I will leave it that way.

Bernie, it looks okay, but it appears you're hitting your "enter" key like we would have used the "hard return" on a type writer. If you didn't do that, let me know.

If that's what you did, no need the system will automatically "wrap" your text as you type, and the only time it's necessary to hit "enter" is when you're leaving a space between paragraphs.

Hi Terry,

It looks like you "are there", although I don't agree with several of the design decisions. The unused ad space for subscribers seems wasted. The 708-pixel limit to pictures probably was caused mostly by that advertisement space. And then the light green margins on either side seem like yet another waste of screen space. But I am having no difficulty reading the forum or posting pictures. So I have no major complaints. I do wish you supported more in-text HTML. This message used the blockquote HTML, intended to get a narrower "newspaper column" look to my text, and that didn't work. But underline worked, and that can be handy at times.

ZM

We are able to write in italics, boldface and strike-through as well as underline, as you illustrated. For me, that's a lot of HTML!!! Adding the ^ - ^ smiley face was almost too much! I don't even know what blockquote HTML looks like.....I'm happy.

I really liked the narrower left margin that appeared yesterday. However, now I am seeing a wider blank space on the left. I have changed nothing in my settings. Bummer!

patrob, whatever you were seeing yesterday after about 4:30 pm CDT, you're still seeing. And prior to the update, there was less text area than now.

Hi Terry,

The forum's implementation of message quoting is in no way equivalent to allowing the inline use of the [blockquote] HTML command in message text.

The forum has always had an implementation for quoting part or all of one message in a responding message, but the forum does not allow the HTML [blockquote] text-formatting command to the browser. (square brackets substituted for angle brackets). The forum filters out and removes many inline HTML commands. Many of those are removed for good reason or at least for some kind of reason. You do not allow the use of [a][/a] because it can force links or outside insertions that you might not want to happen. Oddly, you allow many of those links to be inserted by simply typing or pasting the links. But the [blockquote] HTML command is simply a text formatting command, that commands the browser to insert some additional left margin and possibly some additional right margin (depending on how the browser responds to the [blockquote] command.) The [blockquote] HTML command is not a mischief-making command.

We have previously discussed that text is actually easier to read in relatively narrow columns, like almost all newspapers use. Magazines also frequently use text columns, and some books use text columns as well. Text columns make text more readable.

Ironically, after pointing out that text is considerably easier to read in relatively narrow columns, we have "caved" and made the text column much wider than it was.

If you would just change your policy and not filter out the [blockquote] and [/blockquote] HTML commands, but allow them to stay and influence the browsers, we could get the narrower text columns inside the wider text "boxes" that the forum currently imposes. Contrary to many opinions expressed here, text is actually easier to read in narrow columns.

And, as long as we are wasting unneeded margin space and unused advertisement space to no advantage but to cause the need for a scrollbar, we had just as well "waste" some screen space to make the text actually easier to read. In my opinion. So, please, stop removing the inline [blockquote] [/blockquote] from our text messages.

ZM

Seeking to understand here...my rudimentary (because I'm not a programmer by trade or education) understanding of block quotes. They are used in forums to offset a block of text - ostensibly to let your fellow forum members know you are quoting something attributable to someone or something else. Is that fair to say?

If so, then the quote boxes (with the square brackets) accomplish that. You can either use the quote link next to a post to insert into your text or you can use the html tags (in the FAQ I linked to above) in order to do that.

If there's something else that the blockquote html tags can do beyond what the quote tags do, please explain and/or give a link to a forum that allows them as an example. We are willing to look at additional html tags that don't create security issues (which is why we've historically limited them to the fairly "safe" and easy formatting tags.

The back-and-forth on the width issue isn't about caving in to anything. It is an attempt (and I think a successful one) to rein in the too-wide variable width with a narrow(er) fixed width for reading ease. After implementation we realized that the narrow width we started with was causing a hardship for several members, so we've tweaked it a little wider to accommodate those who routinely use a substantially larger-than-normal font. It's a balancing act :-)

Terry, what about adding a bit more padding to both sides of the text so that it doesn't butt up against the borderz? Would make for much easier reading for some folkz maybe.

To my untrained eye I think we've added back as much padding as we had prior to any changes but if we think we still need more I can see what we can do in a future release.

Thank you Terry, greeting from Etelka from Georgia, you are better woman that I am, I loose my temper easy.

I don't see that Jo! My socials are in the same place, showing the same width. However, the margin on the lefthand side on some I picked at random were a lot smaller and the space to write and dread was a lot bigger. Much better, but would like to see what you are looking at with the socials. Jeanette

Terry, I have my computer and Opera set at 100% I think.

This same wide space on the left and almost none on the right is how the computer at work looks.

Well, Jnette, it didn't last---for a fleeting moment it was up above the posts and out of the way- but it's back! Looks like it's a forever thing- I have a few more days left on my subscription-

Sorry, I Meant the righthand side the margin was smaller. Oh well, I said I was going to wait so I will quit looking.

Terry, I was looking up at the drop down menu for view - there is a Fit to Width - it seems to have made the pages better. Up in the banner it reads Gard and Home is under it. And the caterpiller is hanging out in the white space on the right. But I can live with that. Thanks for all of your help!

Terry, this change I made has now screwed up the other web pages I go to.

How long before the scrolling from side to side will end ?

Bernie, if you're scrolling from side-to-side, do you have your browser set higher than 125% zoom? If so, you'll have to scroll.

Hi Terry,

I used the forum's square bracket quote feature to insert some of your message.

I still have lots of issues with posts being cut off on the right side--especially in the plantfiles section. I use Chrome on my laptop. It shows up like this in my iPad Safari browser, too. It does not in IE (but I HATE HATE IE). Plus, I use my iPad the most. I just cleared my cache (didn't work). I do have my zoom set at 100%

http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/37761/#b

looks like this:



This message was edited Aug 13, 2013 10:59 PM

Zen, I'm struggling to understand your objective here. So that you can make your, and only your, posts narrower? Not sure I want to read threadz in which posts vary wildly according to proclivities.

MORE white space? No thanks.

Hi Summerkid,

"I'm struggling to understand your objective here. So that you can make your, and only your, posts narrower?"

I really don't have any control over what other people write. But I would like to have some control over what I write.

"Not sure I want to read threadz in which posts vary wildly according to proclivities."

You are perfectly welcome to read or not read any threads that you choose.

ZM

Oh get real.

I'll just go on record here as NOT wanting people to have that kind of control over the visuals of posts that I might have to read. Unless, Zen, you want to shoot me a comprehensive list of threadz where you post. That will, in effect, give me the proffered option of reading solely those threads that I choose.

Carolinaflower8, I'll try later today to replicate your problem on your iPad with Safari. Obviously, it should not be cutting off any more, and this is the first report we've had that text is still cutting off in any browsers. I may be in contact with you through dmail for clarification.

Zen_Man, thank you for the comparison and explanation. I'm going to have to think it over. On one hand, I'm for giving members creative control, but on the other, I'm not sure it makes sense to have some posts significantly different thane a others. (By way of comparison, I know there are-a few forum threads where the participants use bold font in order to make it more legible for some thread "regulars". It's a little disconcerting for the first-time reader to come across those posts, but I understand why they were doing it (although there are better ways for someone who is sight impaired to accommodate their limitations.)

Hi Terry,

"I'm going to have to think it over. On one hand, I'm for giving members creative control, but on the other, I'm not sure it makes sense to have some posts significantly different than others."

I understand the trade-off, and I will respect your decision either way. If going to extra effort to make my messages more readable is going to cause confusion or resentment among some forum readers, I am certainly willing to skip that extra effort here. Extra HTML would just be more work for me, so I will just take the advice to "be careful what you wish for."

It's hard to please everyone, and your job is challenging. You deserve some kind of medal for your patience and persistence in dealing with all the problems arising out of the new modifications to the forum. Kudos to you.

ZM