looking for a red leaved small tree

Hi

I' m searching for a small red leaved tree that will reach over 12 feet (3-4 m) that when on my deck which is 5 feet on the ground will give a little privacy from my neigbourgh window and deck that is at the same level. There is already an old thuja hedge between us but it is only 7-8 feet tall.

I've looked at :

japanese maple but I think they are not tall enough for what I want and too slow growing. Are there any that reach over 12 feet?

purpleleaf sand cherry , the prunus cistena big cis is supposed to be over 12 feet but I have never seen any in store around here, maybe if I look more...does it have a tree shape? is it tall enough for what I want.

the prunus cerasifera, Newport, Atropurpoura or Thoundercloud, they are very pretty i've read they are short lived , but how short lived compared to others?

Shubert Chokeberry they look beautiful when I was at the gardening center but some say that black knot disease is a problem ,

Any other suggestion or comments on the above.

Thank you










This message was edited Jul 10, 2013 2:33 PM

What is your cold hardiness up there? I was thinking a Cercis canadensis 'Forest Pansy' but then realized it might be too cold for it up there. What about a Crimson King Maple?

I'm in zone 5a but it will be planted in a sunny spot sheltered by buildings , I just searched for the cercis canadensis Forest pansy and they seem to be available at a nursery not that far south. They say it's 25 feet tall? Is it that tall?

Crimson king maple is to big . It will be planted 10-12 feet from the house.


I also searched the smoketree royal purple but that also seem not tall enough?

Yeah I'm not sure the Smoke will get tall enough. Very mature red buds will get that tall but that takes a while. If you want to keep it on the smaller side, they are available in clump form. If I was planting one, that's what I would go with as they look very pretty in the garden.

Prunus Virginiana "Canada Red" , similar to Schubert, is a very popular variety in the Western USA and Canada. Black knot does occur, but only on a small percentage of the trees. They grow quickly, are attractive, and would not be as expensive to replace. They do sucker, but if the suckers are kept trimmed that is not a big job.

Prunus Thundercloud would be better for your location than Newport, as Thundercloud grows more narrow and upright. You should expect 15 or 20 years life from it. I see many that i am sure are older than that.

You may need to amend your soil if it is too acidic, but that is pretty easy for just one tree.

Canada Red will grow faster than the Thundercloud.

Ernie

Fany,

If you were not absolutely fixed on the Red Leaf, and excellent tree for your purpose would be some Red, or Swedish Aspen. they are not as totally red as the Canadas or Thundercloud but are beautiful trees with a lot of red in the leaves. It might take two or three as they are not as wide growing as others, but that has its advantages, also.

Then, the fastest growing tree for a screen would be the Hybrid poplars, but they are all green.

It will take you five years or longer to grow a Thundercloud to ten feet. Virginiana will grow 20 or 30% faster, and the Swedish Aspen or Poplar will grow even faster.

Ernie

Japanese Maple: Slow. Several that grow well over 12', but to get a screen out of it any time soon you would need to start with one that is really large. Think: need a tractor to plant it.

Most of the Prunus: Faster growing by far than the Japanese Maple. Some are more of a mult-trunk tree, not so tall, perhaps wider. Think of them as a shrub with the lower leaves stripped off. Others are indeed very good trees for screening. Around here most of the purple leafed flowering plums are very good small trees, easily reaching 12' -25' high, some are taller, and maintaining their density from 5' on up, so would make a superb screen for you. As to which variety is best in your zone, I think your local experts would answer that better. They live longer than 10-15 years here, but I am in a milder zone than you.

Smoke tree (Cotinus) are not good screens. Informal, open growth, and not very fast.

Cercis in my area are not fast enough, and too open for a decent screen.

Planting something 10-12' from the house it is important not to get something too large. If you selected something smaller, would 2 or 3 make a better screen? Or is there one target spot that needs the screen?

Depending on the variety of Thuja, would some fertilizer help? Granted, they are slow, but if they are already established, they might grow a bit faster than even a fast growing tree that is newly planted.

If you are talking about a Prunus cerasifera 'Thundercloud', I would not recommend that tree as I've seen a few in our area be easily uprooted in bad storms. I used to be a big fan of that tree until I saw that.

I am concerned about planting this close to the house foundation , does any of the above shrub , trees are best to be that close to the house? or even not red leaved ,at a last option,that would be best suited ? and still reach over 12 feet ?

If I get something big like the shubert chokeberry I plan to pruned it when it gets too tall or wide. I just relooked at the space I have and it will be planted more like 8 feet from the house.

I have a young serviceberry (amelanchier canadensis) tree that will be 8 feet from the tree I plan to plant. It's not that large of a space , a 16 feet X 16 feet square between the deck, house, thuja hedge and the serviceberry.

It doesn't have to provide that much of a thigh screen. But I wish to buy something that is already as tall as the thuja hedge (6-8 feet) . Then it can be slow growing or whatever. Just to give me a focal point to look at instead at the neigbourgh house and deck.

The thuja hedge won't get that much taller, I saw a neighbourg try to get a similar hedge to be taller , but if the top doesn't get pruned when an ice storm and snow happens the top branches will break.

Thank you for you comments.

Sequoiadendron4 ,

If the Prunus cerasifera thoundercloud can be easily uprooted maybe that's a plus for me ? , meaning that it doesn't have that much of a root system to go against my house foundation? but maybe I'm wrong? and in my case the tree will be planted at a pretty sheltered from wind location.

I will go today to check at the garden center all the suggestions.

I suppose you could look at it that way. If it's in a sheltered location then I might not worry about it as much. It is a pretty tree.

The small plants you are looking for (small tree roughly 12-20' tall) will not be a problem if planted 8' from the house.
Larger trees, and more aggressive roots could be, but I do not see a problem with what you want.

Have a look at trees that are available in your local nurseries. In general they are going to be plants that are OK for your zone. Talk to the oldest person (hopefully the most experienced) there about your needs. Write down the names of the plants he or she suggests.
Then come on back here and use the database to see what other gardeners have said about those species and varieties.

So I went to two garden center, two big ones in the region.

I saw pretty japanese maple over 10 feet in big containers for near a 1000$ !!!
Might buy a tiny one at 20$ and grow it as a life long project.

Saw some purple leaf sand cherry (but not big cis variety ) some where not great looking with lots of tiny holes in the leaves.

No sign in both nurseries of prunus cerasifera, I don't know why, I didn't ask ,I'm very shy, that's why I'm here for advice....

Saw Cercis canadensis 'Forest Pansy', the leaves to me didn't look healthy ( maybe it's just the shock of being transplanted to pots) and the leaves are too big for my taste when planted that close to the deck, but would look good from a far I guess.

Plenty of Shubert Chokeberry , some had very nice red leaves and other more brown redish leaves , is there a reason for that ? Love how it looks when young but then the older one the branches look weedy, going down not uprigh. Can you prune it to look less like that?

Well I guess I will search some more.

Thank you.

Fany,

On the small holes in the leaves, that is Coryneum Blight, or Shothole disease, and it will be your main problem with Flowering Plums. It can be controlled by dormant spray, but nothing seems to stop it during the growing season.

The leaves on all of the red trees change color as they mature.

You cannot expect a large transplanted tree to grow much the first year while it is getting established, then one foot per year, or at most 2 feet, and when a tree gets close to it normal height, growth slows down. Very few varieties of Jap maples ever get as tall as you say you want.

I still suggest you research Red Swedish Aspen for the result you say you want.
Populus Tremula Erecta. Plant them 4 or 5 feet apart and you will have the quickest screen that you need. The leaves partially change to green during late summer but then turn red again in the fall. Be sure to get a male tree as females shed fluff.

Any tree you buy can be pruned to the shape you want.

Ernie

You probably won't find a label saying Prunus cerasifera. They usually don't print the 'cerasifera' part of the name, and the label might just say
Prunus 'Atropurpurea'
Prunus 'Krauter Vesuvius'
Prunus 'Newport'
and so on.

Depending on the variety, some purple or red leafed plants hold their color better than others. Some never do get a really true color, more like a blend of green and red or purple. Some varieties are reproduced by seed, and the individual plants can vary. Some out of every crop are richer colored and hold that color better than others.

Many plants have a basic shape that can be changed somewhat. Better to get a plant that will naturally take the shape you want, then pruning is directed toward correcting a bit of odd growth back to what it should be rather than training it to be something that it is not.
For example, If a tree naturally tends to be narrow, it is difficult to train it to be especially wide, though you can open it up a bit. A wide spreading tree with especially horizontal branches is not going to be easy to keep narrow. A tree that can reach 40' tall will be hard to keep pruned down to 20'.
...and so on.
A plant with a lot of new growth, long branches, might grow weaker branches that tend to hang down. Pruning will be directed to shortening these branches until they are shorter, not too heavy to stand up on their own. By growing the plants under slightly less luxurious conditions the growth is a bit slower and a lot stronger in many plants. But growers want the plants big, fast, to keep them moving out of the growing grounds. So they fertilize and water to grow them the fastest.

This message was edited Jul 13, 2013 11:05 AM

I think I will get a Shubert Chokeberry. I checked yesterday the gardening section of a big store , they had some that where marked as Shubert Chokeberry Spur and marked as being less wide that the normal Shubert Chokeberry that they had also. Can we really count on this.( the price of the spur was heigher)

However I ve notice that one of the normal Shubert Chokeberry that were all near each other with the Spur variety had a grey growth on one end of a branch...could that be black knot disease. And if so, then did it gave it to all the Chokeberry around and should I keep away from buying there. But I haven't seen this Spur variey anywhere else. If they only have it there...can I buy there or should I buy the normal somewhere else and just prune later on so that it is less wide? Maybe all the chokeberry around here come from the same producer?

They also had Prunus Newport but I thing I prefer chokeberry.

Thank you for all your help.





This message was edited Jul 13, 2013 11:08 AM

It looks like the variety 'Spur' is a more compact type of Chokecherry, uniform color and moderate growth rate. Sounds like just the one you need.
Black Knot Disease starts as small usually brown knots.

Ask about the grey leaves. Might be something like powdery mildew or similar. I would still get that one if it has a little powdery mildew. That is easy to deal with.