Using newspaper and mulch to prepare areas?

Read in a book about using overlapping newspaper and then covering this with mulch to prepare a bed. The benefit is easy killing weeds by not allowing sunlight or photosynthesis and also providing some composted material. Then later before planting it can just be turned as the newspaper breaks down.

-Anyone have any experience with trying this idea?
- I have areas that I cleared of dead landscaping due to hurricane Sandy that will not be planted in until next season. They are beginning to get weeds. How many sheets of newspaper will be broken down enough in about a year for Long Island, NY climate (zone 7b)?
-Anyone do this for a shorter duration, maybe over the summer to prepare for fall planting with a single or small layer of newspaper?

Thanks

Hi Physeek, I just used newspaper under mulch for the first time this spring. I live in Western NY closer to Buffalo and used only 1 sheet. It's only been about 2 months and its already breaking down. My best guess would be 5 to 6 layers thick. With our winters and the rain it should break down completely or near completely I would think in a years time. I did read somewhere though not to use newspaper with any colored ink. Something about the chemicals in the colored ink. You should also look at biodegradable plastic sheeting or maybe a combination. Glad to hear you survived the storm and came out safe.

I use anywhere from 2 or 3 to 5 or 6 sheets, depending on how long I want it to last. I used to use cardboard, but found it too stiff for most beds. Now I only use that under the blueberries, everything else gets paper. I lay it down, wet it to conform to the surface of the soil, then mulch. If I change my mind and want to plant something, it's easy enough to punch through the paper with a regular trowel.

Several years ago my daughter helped me put newspapers down, 12 sheets, everywhere. and then mulched it. It lasted for about 5 years. It was wonderful. It needs it again, but she is not around and I can't do it. But, just had to jump in and say that you will love it. If you use enough sheets. Soak them good first.

After reading about it on here, I used newspaper for the first time a few weeks ago. I had extended a bed into the lawn, which was covered with established grass. I dug the holes, installed the plants, and then laid 3-5 sheets of news paper over all the grassy areas and mulched over top. The main point was to kill the grass and so far it seems to be performing nicely.

Thanks,
I'll probably try 1-2 sheets for the potential fall area(3-4 month)
Maybe 6 sheets for the next spring areas(aprox. 1 yr.)

I'm also not gonna use colored pages, why not it's easy enough to avoid the dye.


-Does the mulch need to be very fine for this to compost (pine bark fines, or other etc.)?


This message was edited Jun 20, 2013 1:28 PM

This message was edited Jun 20, 2013 1:33 PM

You are right about the colored, sleek, slick, paper. I didn't use it either.

I never gave the mulch a second thought. But, at the time I didn't have any compost so I bought several bags of Down to Earth Compost. So, the garden got the benefit of both the rotted paper and the compost. I think the paper is a plus. Not sure why, but anyway, it worked so well. Wish I could do it again. It has been raining for so long now and you ought to see the weeds.

The middle of May I had my ankle replaced so I am still on "no weight on that foot" diet. That is why I can't get the weeds now.

Good luck with your project. You'll love it.

Edited to add:: I think you will be sorry you didn't use more tho.

This message was edited Jun 20, 2013 2:20 PM

News Paper, Cardboard and a couple of years ago I came across a store with a sale of wall paper and I got very cheep rolls of lining paper (that's what we use under the patterned paper to cover any dents or cracks in the walls, the rolls of paper were clear and were from sustainable trees.

Hope this helps you also. Best Regards. WeeNel.

The finer the mulch the sooner you can til it into the soil.

Also, it depends on what the material is, how fast it breaks down.

Sawdust, grass clippings, fine leaves, dried leaves that break up when you 'til can all be rototilled in right away to a couple of months from now.

Fine chips, coarse leaves and other material with a somewhat longer life might last a year or so as mulch.

Chips from a tree company (pieces are several inches long) can last for at least a year for the easiest to compost materials, and up to several years if they came from most conifers (which do not decompose very fast)

So yes, it matters what kind of mulch you use, too.
You can make things compost faster by making sure there is a nitrogen source to match the carbon content of the mulch. Most mulches are dried stuff, high in carbon. You could add high nitrogen fertilizer, or grass clippings to make the dried mulch material compost faster. Also, watering it helps it compost faster.

I didn't realize physeek wanted to build up the soil. I thought he/she wanted to stop weeds. There fore, I should not be giving any advice.

Was looking for the dual benefit with the newspaper and mulch.
1. Stopping weeds
2. Having the mulch and newspaper decompose enough in a set time to be simply turned in as composted material.

The time frames needed for breaking down and being turned and planting in these 2 separate areas are aprox. 3months and 1 year. They also can not look or smell bad in the front yard etc.

What about from the suggestions,
For the 3mo. area 2 sheets newspaper, the 1 yr. 6 sheets.
Both with a pine bark fines layer, grass clipping layer (it's available) and maybe some dried maple leaves, and then some bagged brown mulch as a top layer that I've had around for a few years now.

-All this can be started right over existing weeds, correct? I thought this was another added less work benefit of the newspaper idea.
-Any thoughts on adding some gypsum caso4 to help with the flood salt damage.

All that sounds good besides the grass clipping layer. I would avoid that but if your heart is set on it make sure it's really thin.

Why avoid the grass clippings?
I was going on the suggestion by diana-k that matching the carbon content of the mulch with nitrogen (grass) would speed composting.

Well that is correct if you are going to til it into the soil. If you have plants in the bed you should not use grass clippings as mulch. It is my personal preference that I don't like the idea of using grass clippings in a garden at all.

My reasoning for adding more layers of paper was that it is a lot of work, i.e. it MUST be soaking wet when putting in place, so since it is so much work, why not do it so it lasts longer. But, if you don't care about that, do whatever. Yes, over the weeds, unless the weeds are very high. Then it is difficult and I would at the very least whack the weeds off before they go to seed anyway.

I know nothing about gypsum caso4.

Unless you know exactly what is, or is not, in the grass, i.e. weeds, or herbicides, or seeds of anything, I would not use them either.

It is normally best to compost grass clippings before adding to the garden...the green uses nitrogen to break down. Using them as a cover (mulch over newspaper for weed control) is not a problem...they will break down before you are ready to plant in that area and will then be able to add nitrogen to the soil.

Yes, but if there are weed seeds in the grass clippings, those seeds can go for years and germinate anytime you disturb the soil.

Weeds: I would use a weed eater or mower to get them as low as possible, gone is best. Perennial weeds might just grow right up through a few sheets of newspaper. If you have nasties like bermuda grass or morning glory I would spray them before covering them.

Grass clippings: New mown lawn. This is high in nitrogen, so supplies N for helping to compost the dry, brown, high carbon materials. Spread it thin, do not leave it in clumps. If the lawn is properly cared for there are no seeds. A weed patch of a lawn will, of course create more problems than it is worth to use the clippings in this situation. (Hot compost pile will kill a lot of seeds. Sheet composting does not)

Alternating layers of different materials is just fine. Put the ugly stuff on the bottom, and the prettiest stuff on top, since this is a front yard. The more of a mix the better so you are supplying the decomposers with a good amount of all the nutrients they need.

Gypsum is great to lock up the sodium from salt, flood damage, so go for it. Here is a link about dealing with sodic soils:
http://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/crops/00504.html

I used the lasagna gardening method on top of an established lawn and it worked really well. I believe you can even plant in it right away as long as you only use composted amendments instead of fresh clippings or manure, although I did it in fall and planted in spring. You'd need to lay down a thicker layer of newspaper, at least 5-6 sheets. Only 2 sheets of newspaper really won't do much to suppress weeds, I don't think. Then you put down layers of compost and other amendments, finishing with mulch. The bed should be built up pretty high but then you just leave the layers to decompose and get worked in the soil, and in the spring the height of the bed is back to normal. You don't till it at all, though.

I didn't follow the exact lasagna gardening method. I mowed the grass as short as possible and put down the wet newspaper, compost, bonemeal, and mulch. Those beds have, by far, the best soil in my whole yard. The newspaper was not completely decomposed when I planted the next spring, but it was easy enough to dig into it and the soil was so wonderful to plant in. Since then, we put down a light layer of compost in the spring on top of the previous year's mulch and put down another 1"-2" of premium wood mulch. It's not finely shredded or anything and it decomposes just fine.

:)

I have used the newspapers and thought they were pretty good...at least as good as the black mesh (which crabgrass just grows up thru. HOWEVER, termites love the cellulous in the paper. My pest control person said to not use.

LOL, that reminds me of one time a fellow I worked with was from NY and I told him I had termites in one of the walls in my house. He told me no way. With all the trees we have in the area why would they possibly want to eat my house.

Too funny... Well, the termites can eat the paper if they want to, it's miles ( not literally!) from the house. And anyway, the foundation is stone...

Another question,
-If the mulch is not decomposed enough and next spring it's turned into the soil before planting, will this compete with the then new planted roots for nitrogen?

This message was edited Jun 28, 2013 10:52 AM

Doubt you have to worry too much about that. Just might get old news. :0)

Hi physeek,
I don't know if you're familiar with Lasagna Gardening, but if you're not, this link gets you to a great DG thread for beginners and experts alike. There are other threads here and there and lots of info on the web as well, but this one is a great start.

Lasagna Gardening is basically layering newspaper, cardboard and organic materials where you want your bed to be. You can cut holes and plant right away or wait over Winter for it to break down, your choice. It requires no digging or weeding and what you are left with is wonderful, amended soil.

Here's the link:

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1030412/

I have use lasagna gardening for quite a few years. It is by far the easiest and satisfying and quickest way to get a new bed started anywhere. I use it every year and cap it off with bark mulch...I plant my annuals etc right on top of the paper and under the mulch. As long aas the paper stays moist my plants can root directly into the paper, so I don't even make holes in the paper for planting! With this method I can have a completely new bed in less than a day.....from growing grass to planted annuals...all you do then is have a gin and tonic and enjoy your handiwork! Any questions let me know, but don't work hard work smart!

Sounds very nice. Maybe next year. :0)

Kantzklan, I totally agree - don't work hard work smart! There shouldn't be grass to deal with every year though. Killing grass should be a one-time thing at first. What do you think is going on?

I took this pic to show the river that's developed in our yard when it rains now. But it also shows a new bed I started a few months ago by laying cardboard, landscape timbers along the edges, have been filling it with leaves, small yard trimmings, and grass from the mower bag. I did dig out some grass in the middle to go ahead and plant a tiny tree, and a couple Oriental lily bulbs, but don't plan to disturb this at all until spring. If I do, the grass may not be dead and continue growing if I give it space and light.

If one has rhizomatous (creeping) grass like we do here, it's also a good idea to slice around the edges with a straight shovel when getting started, to sever the connections between the grass being smothered and that which surrounds it. While connected to the still-growing parts, some grasses can stay alive under a smother for a LOOOONG time. By spring, there won't be much left of the organic matter on top, and I will spread whatever is there evenly, install plants, top with more mulch/leaves/grass.

Unless somebody else is going to dig up the grass, I'll never start a new bed any other way. This is sooo much easier, and you don't lose any top soil. The killed grass contributes to the tilth/fertility of the area. It's a win all the way around.

This message was edited Aug 16, 2013 8:09 AM

Your garden looks lovely, and good job with the lasagna method. Sorry also, for all of the typos...I get excited and don't proof my stuff very well. I shall endeavor to slow down.

Once the bed is created yearly maintenance is truly a no-brainer. Simply pull the smaller weeds that may appear and I add bark mulch every year to all my beds. So now I can plant a dead stick in my beds and Voila! It will grow.

One year I didn't have enough newspapers so I used my old greeting cards from our wedding, bdays, Father's Day, Christmas ,you get the idea. I figured what a great way to enjoy the garden with all of those loving thoughts from my loving friends and family.......I still remember reading them first and then planting them.

Thanks so much for the kind compliments. I can't wait to see what I do with it next year, I have no idea at this point, but it'll be ready.

That's so sweet about the cards! Wow, you obviously have more patience than I do. I got irritated trying to line up giant sheets of cardboard DH brought home from work, without shifting them when I put the timbers on the edges. They come between the sheets of aluminum used to build metal sheds, so I only needed 2 pieces to do this spot. Kudos to you!! Maybe folks should call this laze-agna.

Should you (or anyone reading) ever want big cardboard, call places where they sell furniture and/or appliances. Not that stopping by wouldn't be fruitful but calling first would help avoid going when they "just emptied the bin" or just don't happen to have any that day. I worked at a furniture store and people would often want cardboard for all kinds of things, almost as often as they wanted boxes for moving.

BTW, I've used the pics on cards to make ornaments before, with a family pic on the other side. Figuring out how to 'border' them each year in interesting... ribbon, cardboard rings covered with fabric scraps, cotton balls to look like snow, 'sew' with red or green yarn... If you're really organized, you can give the right pic back to the person who gave you the card.

I save the thick sunday newspaper (except the colored inserts which I recycle). I have a huge stack. Whenever we replace mulch around trees or in my garden beds, we lay down about half-a-dozen sheets first. Then we water it so it stays in place and top with mulch or bark chips. It really does completely stop the weeds for a while and once the paper breaks down and they start popping through they're not as bad.

If I want to plant anything new, it's easy to make a hole in the newspaper.

Great tip on the cardboard. Thanks.

I would suggest checking the source of dye used on colored paper. You may discover the "ink" is no longer harmful to vegetation. Plasticized paper, I agree, don't use.