Non-GMO Seeds

I am actually thinking ahead this year. If we buy seeds that are not labelled as organic or heirloom, how do I know if they are not GMOs? Do seed companies mention this on the packaging? Prior to now, I've just picked seeds off of the racks in the store or nursery, not often paying attention.

Thank you very much.

You don't know.
If it's not marked with "non gmo" you have to assume it is gmo

Did that make sense?

http://rareseeds.com/

There are two angles to this. First is that you won't like find purposely GMO seeds for sale to hobby gardeners, they're typically only purchased by larger scale agricultural outfits, and if you're buying from a crop seed supplier you'd find the GMO seeds advertised as such (Roundup Ready corn, etc). But, the 2nd issue which is more complicated is that GMO plants grown near non-GMO plants can cross-pollinate, thereby potentially "contaminating" the seeds from the non-GMO plants. However--the people growing the non-GMO plants don't have any easy way to know that this has happened, and there's nothing to prevent accidental contamination from affecting organic plants as well as non-organically grown plants if they're grown within the right proximity to the GMO plants, so there's no way you can know whether any seed packet you buy might have been accidentally contaminated.

So...bottom line, if what you're worried about is the accidental contamination, there is no way to know it happened (short of doing some sort of DNA testing on your seeds) and buying organic seeds doesn't necessarily guarantee that this didn't happen so the best thing you can do is work with companies who can tell you where their seeds come from and whether there are big agricultural operations in the area that might have the potential to have cross-pollinated. But if all you're looking to avoid is seeds that were purposely genetically modified, then anything you buy that doesn't talk about the GMO benefit (Roundup resistance, etc) would be fine, organic or not. And as I said before I think you'd have to go out looking for GMO seeds to run across the "on purpose" GMO type of seed, things that you find in little packets at a local store are not going to be.

As far as I know GMO seeds basically fall in two groups Field Corn and Soy beans

Corn, soy, tomatoes, papaya, cottonseed oil, canola oil, rapseed, honey, cotton, rice, sugar cane, potatoes, flax, squash, chickory, peas, sugar beets
you can also say vegetable oil because it's a combo of soy, cottonseed and canola
you can also say meat is because it is fed gmo grains
Also they starting adding genes of the ocean pout to the chinook salmon they grow faster and earlier to market...also the ocean pout genes are used in all of Unilever's ice cream brands for antifreeze properties so I guess you can add ice cream to the GMO list

wish they would stop messing with our food!!!!!!!!!!

Ugh, flowAjen... I had no idea it was so widespread.
I was talking to my husband today about this and from the articles he read, one company has just begun work toward fresh fruits, but they guess it will be ten years before anything is on the market. :(

These GMO foods are one reason why I want to grow more of my own.

Thank you so much for all of your input.

I know me too, I am SO going to be growing more of my own food

4 years ago My Daughter got Gastritus, and I asked myself why food would make my Daughter Sick we ate Healthy, not much out of a can or Microwaved, mostly home cooking after all I am a Chef...so I did some searching and found out about how the Monsanto Corporation(the most HATED Corporation in the World)... was modifying Food Genetically, The Vegetables are Sprayed with "ROUND-UP" Bi-weekly ...since then I have put 4 Organic Garden's in my Yard... the 5th one to be seeded this Spring...I already have around 100 Sprouts growing for this season and am still eating some of what I grew last year, there are 5 ... 55 Gal rainbarrels catching water from my downspouts and I'm looking to install a 10,000 gal system on my property, Seed's are hard, even Johnny's admitted to 4% GMO seed back in 2009, what made this so difficult was that Monsanto bought a major seed supplier a few Year's ago, I believe they were named Semestri, not sure of the spelling, there are some that I trust , Landreth the Oldest Seed Company in the Country, El Dorado Seed, and a Few More, my main point is to attempt to Save your own seed's because non GMO is getting harder to Find, the way to do this is, to not grow the same vegetable type with different variety's in the same bed,

BTW ... we haven't been sick one Day in the Last Three Years...

Ahem. I did a little cleaning up here. Please refer to our rules: http://davesgarden.com/aboutus/rules/

Anyone......................What is GMO? Gita

Genetically modified organism. In the world of plants, it's most frequently crop seeds that are bio-engineered to be resistant to herbicides like Roundup so that (for example) a large scale corn producer can spray down the fields with Roundup to kill the weeds and it won't kill the corn.

and not just resistant to the herbicide but are crossed with a gene so it resists insects from within the plant...so basically crossing the seed with herbicide itself

I didn't think I was Political or Religious...??

The Problem with GMO's is no one knows about them... less than 5% of american's know they exist, and yet eat them everyday...

??? IDK
didn't see the original post you made

I tell everyone I know...hubby is sick of hearing me talk about it

I'm the same way Flow, and yes everyone in my Family is sick of hearing about them, until they eat what I make...LOL...I have 7 people at the restaraunt putting garden's in this year with young children, four are replanting....

Flow have you tried making homemade Butter yet....????
it's amazing, With Organic Organic Heavy Cream and takes about twenty minutes,

Right now I make my Own Ice Cream, Butter, Mayo, Mustard, and Bread, and they really don't take any time to make at all, this while I'm putting in 12 hours a day at the restaurant....
if you need a recipe let me know...

Please share recipes please...

Yea GMOs are one of those things, They really havnt been tested enough to know if they are dangerous or not. I believe that they should be labeled. But to answer the origianl post. I think if they are labeled no-GMO they are good. if they are not then you dont know.

I know that http://www.hartseed.com/ has all no-GMO seed. That is who I get seed from here in New England.

I have a question for people. could an organic seed be a GMO if it was grown organically?

The only GMO seeds that aren't going to be labeled are the "accidental" GMO seeds that I mentioned above, where someone is growing non-GMO plants in close enough proximity to GMO plants, which can then cross-pollinate. There's no way to know if this happened short of a DNA test, so the person growing the non-GMO plants could be completely unaware that their seeds have now been contaminated and there's no way you as a purchaser of seeds can tell if there's been accidental contamination or not. Some companies label their seeds non-GMO, but unless they did DNA testing or grew things in a greenhouse and controlled all the pollination themselves they can't be 100% sure there wasn't any contamination. But just because a company doesn't specify that their seeds are non-GMO doesn't mean they're GMO...it just means they didn't bother to put that claim on their package. The seeds you buy at your local nursery, big box, etc are never going to be what I'll call "on purpose" GMO seeds, the only way they'd be GMO is through accidental contamination.

To find GMO seeds (other than the accidentally contaminated ones I just mentioned) you'd have to go look for them, and you'd probably only find them at agricultural supply places, and they would definitely be labeled (like Roundup Ready corn) because it's a technology that the ag companies want to charge a premium for and control the use of their seeds. They spent a lot of time & money on developing them, so there's no way they're going to sell them without touting the "benefit" and charging a premium...so you're not going to find them showing up in a little seed pack at Walmart or your local nursery.

Thanks ecrane for elaborating. Let me take it one step further...

GMO seeds are available to big agri-business farms, and those farms (and farmers) must file paperwork and agreements to purchase and grow them. Big time legal issues come into play such as agreeing to not save seeds from the GMO crops.

Cross pollination is a given and can certainly come into play if a neighboring farm/garden is next to a GMO farm crop. Law suits have been filed against the neighboring farms, believe it or not, if GMO products cross and inadvertently show up on that neighboring farm.

However, rest easy, Folks, at this point in time. The normal seeds most of us will be buying and using will not be GMO products. Reputable seed suppliers would be shooting themselves in the foot for passing on GMO seeds...they'd either be sued for it (and lose the lawsuit) or they'd lose future business (because at this time very few people want GMO seed stock.

"I have a question for people. could an organic seed be a GMO if it was grown organically?"
NO. "Organic" definition and laws, as defined by the US Gov, would not consider GMO's an organic product, no matter how it was grown.

Shoe

Hi FLow , I've been so busy with Planting's and the Restaurant, butter recipe follow's, this recipe made my 89 year old Mother in Law cry stating she had been looking for that taste for fourty year's....
Simple Butter
1 Quart Free Range/ Organic/light Patsteurized/ or Store bought Heavy Cream
1/4 cup either Buttermilk or Sour Cream ( I'll get to this later)
1 Teaspoon sea salt/ Kosher Salt
Put all of it in a rotating Mixer, I use my Kitchenaid with a whisk attachment, High speed for 8 minutes, it looks like whipped cream, shut it off scrape down the sides, and turn it back on a slower setting to almost churn it, for about 10 minutes, when it seperate's the Buttermilk ( Hint), from the Butter... warning it sloshes everywhere the first time you make it, LOL because it happen's in second's, I cover as much of the top of the mixer in Plastic
wrap as I can ... strain it through cheesecloth save the "BUTTERMILK"... and rinse the Butter in the cheesecloth with Cold Water...enjoy
This makes about one pound of the best tasting butter you ever ate...you can use the buttermilk to add to your next batch or soak chicken in it for Fried Chicken, or as many uses as you can think of, I will tell you this, most of the butter your buying at the supermarket comes from CAFO Farm's...including Land O Lakes....the Plastic wrap is the trick... be patient...

Again---what does CAFO (Farms) stand for?

I copied out your butter recipe, Mr. Pappy. Seems simple enough.
Only in my deep memory I remember drinking fresh Buttermilk...with little bits of butter
floating on top.
i LOVE cold Buttermilk with meat dishes....Gita

Concentrated Animal Feeding Operations (factory farms)

Again, I'm going to ask that everyone abide by our site rules with regard to political opinions. We've all got 'em and not everyone's opinions are going to be in agreement. I've removed a post from this thread for a second time. I'd rather not have to delete the thread and remove memberships, so please be familiar with our rules that we all agreed to when we signed up.

I am eager to try the butter recipe, it sounds good. MrPappyG, I do not own a kitchenaid. Would an egg beater or whisk work?
Also, how long would you say the buttermilk would last in the fridge. I make grape-nuts and need buttermilk or sour milk for it. I often just sour some milk with vinegar.

Chillybean, I'm going to hazard a guess that a whisk or egg beater isn't going to work - have you seen an old-fashioned butterchurn? They were/are a LOT of work to operate, but that's what it takes to make butter by hand. A heavy stand mixer, or even a blender or food processor takes most of the hard work out of the equation :-) There are videos and tutorials for making it by hand - just be prepared to expend some time and effort.

Chillybean---

I do not own a stand mixer either.....always wanted one--but a couple of hundred $$$$ --Nah!
I do not bake, so this would be an extravagant purchase that would only get used about once a year.

Once a year, I bake hundreds of Latvian Pirags, and I could use the stand mixer for the dough.
My little hand-mixer does not really do the job--but I manage to get to a point with it---then I have to dig in
with my bare hands and finish kneading the dough till it comes clean from hands ans bowl. Done!

I am not one for much on-line shopping. I hate the high shipping charges.... and I bet they would be
high with a stand-mixer. SO HEAVY!!!!!

I read somewhere (here??) that you can put the ingredients in a capped jar or large bottle and just keep rolling
it around the floor to make butter.
Anyone ever hear of this? May keep a bunch of kids busy for a while.....

I think the closest I could come to all natural milk or cream is to drive to PA where the Amish practice this kind of farming.
We DO have a couple Amish Markets here in the outskirts of Baltimore--should check them out....

Gita

"I read somewhere (here??) that you can put the ingredients in a capped jar or large bottle and just keep rolling it around the floor to make butter. Anyone ever hear of this? May keep a bunch of kids busy for a while..."

Gita, when my DD was about 8 yrs old we made butter in a quart Mason jar. I was getting milk from some local folks (Amish/Anabaptist), complete with the cream floating on top. Just by putting the cream in the jar and shaking it created the butter. It took a bit of shaking but really wasn't very long; I can't remember the exact minutes due to the excitement during the making of it but I'd guess much less than 20 or 30 minutes. When the butter formed I drained it through some cheesecloth for a while, squeezing it to get more liquid out of it. At that point you can store it in a plastic container, adding salt to it if you like or not. I'd recommend you give it a try just for the experience.

You used to be able to buy glass jars with butter paddles in them. Haven't seen them for years though. As for where to get the cream, try some heavy whipping cream or something if you can't get real milk.

Shoe (who also doesn't own a big mixer)

Thanks for the responses. I totally forgot about the shaking method and that we used heavy cream. My memory is shot.... I had so many small willing hands, I didn't have to do any of the work. I can look into finding a butter churn if we want to do this regularly. We visit Kalona several times a year; they have a large Amish community. They just might have something at one of their stores.

I find myself blessed by my Location, I have the only remaining Certified Organic Farm less than a mile from my House, I have an Amish Market, less than Three Miles away, I live in woods of tall Oak's, next to a Creek 100 Feet across.
Gitagal and Chillybean, I cant imagine why a hand mixer wouldn't work, it would be tedious though, probably take around twenty minute's.
I make Butter, Mustard, Mayonnaise, and Ketchup/Catsup weekly, Bread, Ice Cream, and Ricotta Cheese, I just started making my own Sausages/Hot Dog's, and it's all amazing...
I added Thyme/Oregano/Sage/Cilantro/Parsley/Coriander to my Herb Garden of Basil/Rosemary/and Mint...
Terry, I've read the old Posts from when this site began, as a matter of Fact I think I've found the beginning, I'm not trying to press you or anyone else on this site, but as Human Being's isn't our First Right to be individual's and express it, a right to formulate opinion's and in so doing, express them, when you see an injustice toward's Humanity, and seek a cure, isn't this a Place you endeavor a response, it is after all People sharing experience's, knowledge, Failures and the Joy of Success, if we don't share here than where? I have been banned from Facebook, deleted from the Wall Street Journal, censored on AOL, Yahoo, CNN, Huffington Post, MSNBC, ABC,NBC, CBS, Fox, just for telling the Truth and yet I e-mail the president weekly, and he answers me, What Happened to my Constitutional First Amendment Rights?? The Right for Free Speech, the Right To Collect and Gather as Individual's with Opinion. We the US are the Only Country that are awarded these Right's as Individual's, and I as a Veteran, almost Lost my Life to insure these right's to You.

Over the last two year's I have Cross Pollinated two Tomato's of different variety's, one from a Rutger's Student who is trying to regenerate a True Rutgers Tomato and a GMO free Brandywine, I hope at the end of this summer season to eat the First Pappy G Tomato, they've already Sprouted and went into pot's tonight..

This message was edited Feb 7, 2012 2:17 AM

MrPappy--

I just have one more question re the butter making. Then I "may" try it.....
Since I do not have access to farm-fresh whipping Cream--would a store-bought one work as well?

Which works better--Buttermilk or Sour Cream as the inoculant? They are different products.

Thanks---Gita

Your right to free speech allows you as a citizen to speak up without the government censoring you. That is probably why you receive a formulated response to your missives to the White House.

However, we - as private businesses and citizens - each have the right to choose what activities we will tolerate on our premises. It's why you don't have the right to picket in front of your neighbor's house. It's why you will get tossed out of a restaurant if you try to hand out political flyers to the patrons. It's why you don't have the right to commandeer the microphone at a ball game and use it as your personal bully pulpit. And why you don't have the right to violate our site rules to promulgate your political opinions.

This thread started off with a fair question. It has been answered, and I am loathe to have to lock or even remove the entire thread, so please refrain from carrying on in this vein. Our admin team is small, and we don't have a lot of free time to keep editing out political rants that clearly violate our Terms of Use or issuing repeated warnings and explanations.

I am going to trust my explanation to you here is sufficient to answer the questions you presented, and those do not require any further public debate. If you have additional questions that have not been asked or answered, use this link to contact us: http://davesgarden.com/helpdesk/forums/ but don't disrupt this thread further or we will have to lock it and remove your access from the site, per our Terms of Use.

Well said, Terry. Thanks for once again reiterating the why's and why-nots of the DG TOS. (As for me, I like them. It helps us keep things courteous and non-toestepping, a must have with such a large and diverse community.)

Gita, here is a great article about butter making as well as what (and why) to use as cultures:
http://www.motherearthnews.com/Real-Food/How-To-Make-Butter-And-Buttermilk.aspx

From the article: "You can culture cream effectively by inoculating it with a little store-bought sour cream, buttermilk or crème fraiche. (Just make sure it says it contains live cultures.)"

It's a quick read with some great info, especially on Page 4 where they give you step-by-step instructions. If you make some I hope you let us know how it came out.

Shoe

Thanks, Shoe! I appreciate all your tutorials......

It is exciting to think I could make my own butter.....Wheeeee.....like the piggy on the ski-lift in the commercial....Wheee.....

Gita

Hah!~ I love those piggy commercials! Wheeee...! *grin

Shoe

wheeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Caughtja! Another piggy commercial lover!

Welcome to "the secret piggyhood of the wheeee..... pigs", flowjen! (We've given ourselves away, haven't we?)

Shoe