Tomato Plants Now

I've read that tomatoes are "perennials that are cultivated like annuals." What does that mean? Do I pull up my plants from this summer or cut them off at their bases to preserve the root balls--or what?

Hi Late,
It would help a lot if you go to your preferences page and add what zone you're growing in. Then we can talk about tomatoes.

I'm about to get underway with sowing tomato seeds for the spring garden. Would love to have you join me on the journey!

Linda

I grew that one from a seed...

Tomatoes are a tender perennial. If the temperature gets below a certain temperature then they die.

Thanks for answering the question Susan! LOL!

SusanKC is right when she tells you Tomato's are tender perennials. There is a new move on tomato's here where instead of sewing fresh seeds every year, you start off the next years plants from cutting from the types of plants you preferred /fruited well/ had fewer problems with diseases etc, it is said that the plants are stronger, fruit earlier therefore get a longer growing period.
I have not used cuttings myself but this year when my Tomato's are finished fruiting I am going to try use the small NON flowering side shoots as cuttings, here in Scotland we have such a short growing season that we had a poor crop this year so for that reason alone I will give it a try as this last season I had a huge crop of un-ripe green tomato's and by using cuttings it will give me an earlier start.
Will report next year at the end of the season.
Good luck. WeeNel.

Couple of other things. Book you might find interesting. He is in Alabama or GA and used the tomates as perennials. How to Grow World Record Tomatoes: A Guinness Champion Reveals His All-Organic Secrets

Carolyn over on the tomato forum is an expert on tomatoes. She might know what zone they are hardy to.

When I lived in CA I didn't realize tomatoes were anything but perennials. They are short lived perennials tho.

To say they are hardy to a certain USDA zone is misleading. They flounder at temps that are below around 50* for an extended period of time. The plants will freeze and die if the temps get down to 32*. This doesn't happen very often in some areas but I know we have had unexpected freezes the last 2 winters along the Gulf Coast, and some DG members that are commercial growers lost everything. Even tho it's not supposed to freeze in their zone. Mother Nature has her own plans.

To further extend the tomato season you can pick and cook the green tomatoes. My fave recipe is roasting them in feta cheese.

Hi,
New to DG, but looks good. What about growing a tomato plant indoors in one of those "TopsyTurvy" things?

Also, have tomato seeds, but not sure how to get them into plant size. Sprouted some last year, but they grew about 2" tall, very spindly, then died.
would like to try again.

I am in North TX, zone 7b, I think.

it should be ok as long as they get bright light.

txcowgirl53, there are a lot of people here that can help, and it sounds like you really want
to grow some thing's be warned it's addicting once you taste it, I have a few people at the Restaurant, that started garden's last year, and they're addicted. We need a little more information first, do you Have a garden, what size is it, and what do you want to grow, most of the people here started out just like you, and it was the other's that helped to make them successful. You can grow those upside down Tomato's and be successful, but why not plant some Heirloom Tomato's in your ground, and when they Fruit, know you did that, what will convince you is when you taste the first one, then your hooked on home gardening for Life.
Just my thought's.

I come from a long line of gardeners, my dad had a garden, and his dad was a farmer; guess I've got dirt in my blood (or at least under my fingernails!). You're so right, nothing beats a juicy home grown tomato.

I have an outdoor garden plot about 40ft square.It is in an exposed area and gets full sun all day.

I have some heirloom tomato seeds that I ordered this spring. I would like to sprout them indoors and transplant them outside when it is time. I tried sprouting some last year, they got about 2inches tall, got very spindly, and died.

I would think that this is the time to start the seeds, how do I do that to get the best results?

Uh, if ya'll don't mind, I have seed sowing in my blood. I enjoy growing the seedlings FAR more than I do the actual plants. Don't need to grow a single anything after the seedlings are hardened off, but, just as a matter of practice, I try to keep about 15 tomato plants, and some bell peppers.

I Sowed 212 tomato seeds this past January, and 65 bell pepper seeds -- didn't lose a single seedling....I gave all of the plants away to friends and newbie gardeners, who grew bountiful tomatoes! In fact, someone mentioned that I'm practicing "sharecropping" in the highest sense, because those who grow my seedlings just bring me bags of veggies! I don't even have to ask -- hardly....

Anyway, I'm already underway, and it's not to late for you to join me. If the Texans in my area (or anyone else on this thread) wants to come along on the next journey, just jump on board.

If ya'll will give me a holler here that you're following me, I'll continue posting my progress here for you. I'm not an expert by any means. But, there are scores of gardeners on Dave's who took me from UBERnewbie to "might-know-a-little-bit-about-a-lot-of-things" status.

And, we have to "pass it forward!"

Hugs!

Linda

P.S. It would help if I had an idea of the relative daily temps in your growing areas. A number of us growers have decided that the temps seem to be far more important than the USDA growing zones, and keeps us all on the same page. When I doing something because it's cool, cold, comfortable or hell season on my Texas calendar, ya'll will have an idea of where you need to be on your calendar!

So, here's what I've done, so far.

My light stand is in place. This is critically important if you're starting seeds indoors. They need adequate light. Don't wait until they start popping, because by then, it's already too late. While you're trying to set up some light, your seedlings will be getting leggy. So, best to get it set up now...

Here's a picture of my setup. Nothing more than concrete cinder blocks and 2x6 boards cut to fit my space. I use regular 48" fluorescent shop light kits, two kits sitting side x side beneath each shelf, for a total of FOUR lights per shelf. The kits are $10/per at Home Depot or Lowe's. The lights can be purchased by the case (cheaper), or find a Habitat Resale store and use some of their 48" lights for $1/per. Use eye bolts and "S" hooks and chain to suspend the lights.

I will be starting me seeds in 4" pots sitting in cat litter trays I bought for $1/per (the trays) at the dollar store.

Keep your costs to a minimum, and scrounge, dumpster dive, Craig's List, yard sales, wherever you can get what you need on the cheap.

Linda

P.S. I'll post the pic a bit later. Gotta run!

This message was edited Dec 13, 2011 2:46 PM

The seed packet should have on it the number of days to start them indoors. We use the last average frost date plus two weeks and count backwards to get the date to start the seeds on. April 15 is our (zone 5) last average frost date. Plus two weeks to put outside makes May 1. Minus the number of weeks from May 1 to get start date. If we are planting seeds straight outside then we go by if the maple trees are in bloom.

Texas has a different growing schedule that we do so best to ask them when they determine what date they plant by.

For planting inside we use seed starting soil in 6inch pots. Three seeds to a pot. We get too busy to transplant from small to large to be bother with that. The pots go into a flat so that we can water the flat and not each pot. There is an over all clear plastic cover that goes on the flat to keep the soil moist. We also use a mat heater as the basement is too cold for tomatoes to grow well. They like it warm. The grow lights get set within an inch of the plastic. At the time that the seeds germinte the plastic cover gets removed. We also start fertilizing around this time. As the plant grows the light fixture gets moved so the inch spacing continues between the light bulbs and athe top plant leaves. When we hit the time frame that the plants are going outside and it's warm enough we start hardening off them by gradully increasing the amount of time outside in the shade and then finally in the sun.

We use a two bulb florecent fixture with a warm and a cool bulb in it. If you do a forum search you will find that there is differring opionions on what to use. At some point we may go to a four buld configuration but not right now.

DH likes a book called New Seed Starter's Handbook by Nancy Bubel. It seems to be detailed enought for him and is sold by a number of places on-line including Seed Savers and Amazon.

A basic rule of thumb is start tomato seeds about 6-8 weeks before the date of your last average freeze. They are not frost hardy and will need to be protected from any freezing conditions once they are in the ground.

Cowgirl- It sounds like your plants got leggy do to low light, but thats just a guess. I think it might be a little early to start them, but definitely not too early to get set up. My heat mat is setting, ready to go, on my bedroom floor. I will start the majority of my seeds for personal use around the middle to end of Jan. Depending on the weather.


What I found really strange last year was that even tho it was really hot really early my volunteer tomatoes didnt sprout until late April, after I had planted out. Given the high temps I expected them earlier. Thats kind of my "natural" gage as to when conditions are right.

Temps and rainfall for Whitesboro, TX
http://www.weather.com/weather/wxclimatology/monthly/graph/76273

OK I give up. LOL Thank you for the link Susan but its strange because MY average low temps are lower the Whitesboro. Crazy Texas weather.

Here's the pic!

1Lisac,
I've noticed that my seedlings will get leggy if 1) there's not enough light, or 2) if the room is too warm. In the last two seasons, I've started the seedlings off in my "warm" room for germination, and up until I'm ready to pot up once. When they're potted up, they get moved to the "cool" room to grow on from there. Seems the cool makes them grow slower and stockier -- they get "fat."

Since I'm switching gears this time, and taking SusanKC's tack

, I'm starting off in 4" pots from the beginning. When they get the first set of true leaves, I'll shift the pots over into the cool room.

That potting up of over 200 seedlings was getting to be a chore. But, I've never NOT potted up before. This will be interesting.

My charts have all said that I should not plant tomatoes out before mid-March or April. But, I grow long season (90-120 DTM) indeterminate heirlooms, and once the humidity sets in here, there's no pollination. So, my window for pollination is very narrow.

After watching Drthor's success this past season (she planted out in mid-February under hoops), I've determined I will plant my seedlings out by mid-February also, under the hoop for protection. That should have my crop in full swing by the end of May. Also, my yard sits on a natural cross-wind tunnel, so, as long as the humidity is low, the breeze will pollinate my plants. Only saw 2 bees all last season, and i had more pollination than ever before. Best crop ever, too.

Linda

This message was edited Dec 15, 2011 3:44 PM

Cowgirl-after rereading your post about how your seedlings died last year, im thinking it might be due to "dampening off", which a fungal problem usually due to the growing medium being too wet. I start and pot up 3000-4000 seedlings a year but Ive never had an issue with dampening off. So it's just a thought, maybe somebody else can give you more info on it.

Agree. Damping off was my other thought. Here is an article on it http://www.mobot.org/gardeninghelp/plantfinder/ipm.asp?code=255

We have the same problem here with the temps getting to high for polination this last summer. IT was preceeded by a cooler and wetter than normal spring. I'll have to think on if planting outside earlier would help with that or not.

Row covers with a higher layer of plastic will give a higher overall temp rating. See Elliot Coleman's book The Winter HArvest Handbook. He has info in it on the temp increase that happens with both.

I water my newly popped seedlings with 1 tsp. Hydrogen Peroxide per gallon of tepid water for the first 5 waterings. I use a large turkey baster and carefully moisten the potting mix from the top, without disturbing the seedlings. After about five top waterings with the H2O2, I start bottom watering in the tray with plain water, and suck up excess water with the turkey baster. Never leave the seedlings in standing water.

Once the 2nd set of true leaves have appeared, I switch the formula altogether. I add 1 tsp. Miracle Grow Water Soluble Plant food (12-4-8) and 1 tsp. Epsom Salts to the gallon of water, and bottom water from then on, sucking out the excess water after about 15-20 minutes.

So far, haven't lost a seedling to damping off...

Linda

This message was edited Dec 14, 2011 1:31 PM

Same here. No losses to damping off.

Alright, thanks ya'll. Will get a move on and get some lights set up. I see now my last seedlings didn't get enough light, and probably too much water.

These warming mats, where do I get them, or do I need them with the lights? Also, what temps are we talking about "warm room" vs "cool room"? We usually keep the house around 69-70 year round, but could warm up or cool off one room for the plants.

And, will the seeds from earlier this year still be good?

Txcowgirl53,
I've never used a heat mat for germination. I create my own heat!
Since I'm usually sterilizing last season's potting mix in the microwave, my seeds get sown in warm mix. I gently water the seeds in with warm water. Then I shove the planted flats into large plastic bags, being sure to vent for air on one end, and tent the bag so it doesn't lay on the soil. Or, I'll poke a few holes in the bag for ventilation. Just enough for a tiny bit of airflow, but not enough to stop the heat buildup inside the bag. The resulting condensation will keep the soil moistened, so there'll be no need to water before the seeds germinate.

I sit the flats on the floor, in the dark, in the warmest room until the very first seed pops. Soon as I see a head peeping, the trays come outta the bags and go under the lights. I keep the bulbs 1" to 2" from the seedlings. Lights stay on from 7am until 10pm or 11pm, when they go off for the night. The seedlings need a period of darkness to do the photosynthesis thing. I've been fascinated with waking up and seeing actual overnight growth!

I don't do anything special in regards to creating a "warm" or "cool" room. I just happen to have some squirrel-y vents in my house. I have one room that is noticeably warmer and one that's noticeably cooler, no matter what I do. So, I literally "go with the flow" to my seed-starting advantage!

Germinating seeds and seedlings need a warm area. Once they have 1-2 sets of true leaves, growing them on in a cooler room makes them grow slower and they get "fat" and stocky.

The seedlings I grew this way in January were healthier than anything I saw for sale at Home Depot or Lowes!

Well, that's my method -- and I'm sticking with it!!

P.S. I keep the ceiling fan on in the "warm" room to keep the warm air circulating in the room. I also position a box fan at a distance from the seedlings, so there's a gentle breeze blowing on them. The resistance forces the seedlings to strengthen up against the breeze! Toughens 'em up!

Linda

Linda,
You are an inspiration to all of us who had not grown from seeds. where is your setup? I can not imagine a set up like yours in my house. I just have too much other plants inside.

Perhaps you can start a new thread so we can follow?

Belle

Here is a good post on growing tomatoes including the temp issues. http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080216211202AATSWbL

Our process is a bit different than Linda's.

We do use heat mats. The winter temperatures in our basement range in the 50-60s esp at night. At those temperatures I find that the seeds either take too long to germinate and/or the plants quite growing. Some types of tomatoes seem to be more effected by the low temps. We've had specific temp related growing problems with the pink Bradywine. The heat mats run 24/7 until the outside temps rise enough to start putting the plants outside. We are colder (zone 5 in Kansas) than Texas so it's possible that you might not need the heatmats. We did grew tomatoes from seeds a number of years without mats. However the mats made such a difference in growth rate and overall health of the plant that we now always use them for tomatoes.

We use lights from the time we plant the seeds until we start moving the plants outside. They are on a timer and run 5am until 10pm every day. Some of the other plants we grow from seeds do need a period of darkness to germinate and I've never seen it as an issue with the tomatoes.

We have selfwatering flats and start watering at the time the seeds are planted. We have not seen any problems with the damp-off. However we do sterilize the containers and use sterilized soil every year. We don't sterilize once the seeds are planted.

I forgot to say on a previous post that at some point we clip the extra tomatoes plants and leave only the healthiest tomato plant in each container.

I have read that putting a fan on the plants helps get them ready for outside planting. It's just not something we've tried yet.

Hey, Belle!
Long time, huh?

Here's the light stand I use, set up and ready for seed sowing on New Year's weekend.

Just to clarify, I START the seeds in the warm, sterilized, soil and water them in with tepid water, to maintain the heat the seeds need for germination. You're doing the same thing with your heat mat.

After they "pop", and up to the time they have 1-2 set of true leaves, they continue growing in the warm room. But, as soon as they get those true leaves, I move them into the COOL room, because the cold slows down their growth and makes them concentrate energy on getting "fat" rather than tall and leggy. Keeping the light so close to their heads (1"-2") makes it so they don't have to stretch upward toward the light. So, they grow nice and short and stocky (help from the breeze from the fan)...

As they grow upward, I move the light upward, too. Last season, I had 8" healthy seedlings, superior to the box stores, in a little more than 35 days from sowing the seeds! That was phenomenal growth for me!

My intention was to set the plants out by mid-February, but I ran into a major snafoo that I'll share with ya'll later. It involved applying too much fertilizer, too soon, and threatened the loss of my whole crop. I scrambled and tried radical measures to save the majority of those seedlings. I did, and they all produced bumper crops in the end. But, I won't make that mistake EVER again! Whew!!!!

Linda

It just occurred to me that I've not bought a single plant in 2011....wow.....wow....

Hugs!

Here's a more concise picture of those "seeds." This is an Early Jersey Wakefield cabbage, showing it's beginning to "head".

This message was edited Dec 15, 2011 10:38 AM

Linda,
I need to know where you do all these projects? Greenhouse? room in the house?

Belle

Belle,
I have two bedrooms in the house without furniture, so I multi-tasked! The light shelf sits pretty close to the wall, and is not very obtrusive. Plus, I can pull the door shut!

In fact, in another house with a formal dining room off the living room, I set it up against a blind wall and it blended in perfectly! You could stand in the living room and look into the dining room and never see the whole thing sitting behind the wall! And, again, this area had a vent that pumped in warm air, so I started the seeds there and then moved them into a "catch all" room that stayed cold all the time (my husband had rerouted and closed off the vents to this room).

When opportunity knocks, I'm answering!

The cool thing about the light stand is you can cut the boards to fit where you need it to go, although 48" seems to be a standard length because of the shop lights. My boards are 5 ft. And, you don't even have to spend $$ for the boards. Scrounge around your neighborhood or some construction sites. Ask for a surplus board here and there. Take it home, paint it, and put it together!

This pic is from an article on making the light shelf. TCFROMKY was the builder. He's a good guy here on DG.

And, here's my light shelf from January. I added a third shelf after I realized I could go UP to a third shelf instead of splitting it into two shelves per room. Also, since this will be the warm/hot weather seedlings being started, I might be able to go directly from the warm room straight into the garden, if I can figure out how to pump some cool air into that room, or crank up the box fan enough to circulate some cool air.

Linda

Here is an article on tomato growing from Carolyn

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/490323/

Quite a set up!!! You must have a lot of patience!! I wish I had met you last May. We were in Dallas for 5 days

Belle

Thanks, again, Belle,
It really is just some boards sitting on top of some concrete blocks, with lights handing under each board.

I think starting the seeds is some sort of therapy for me. And, I love the challenge of taking a seed to a whole, healthy plant.

Girl, Girl, Girl where do you find the time to do all that potting and then blog about it? I'm trying the PBF in one of my raised beds which seems to be doing great so glad to hear it works well for you. With the sides not being smooth on the water bottles do you have any problems getting the plants out of them?

GG you have an amazing setup ...I wish I had the room .... right now what I'm doing is building a Cold Box and setting it up with heat tape it' s inexpensive, to run and to buy. I've planted a few Brandywine's, and San Marzano tomato's in the garden window, a few Black Beauty Eggplant, ( although I'm not a fan of this variety), and I'm still trying the refrigerator Spinach experiment, Nothing Yet...I still can't believe I have Cucumber's in December, I'm not even going to eat them I'm going to save these seeds...if any of you would like to share whose seed you use please feel free there's a few I'd Like to Change...especially Zucchini, after three year's of small quantities, I'd like to find one that produces a little more, I use Landreth, (THE OLDEST SEED HOUSE IN AMERICA Zucchini black Beauty, some Ferry Morse, and some B.I.....but I'm getting ready to buy some bulk seed .. and wouldn't mind any references...Thanks and Happy gardening...

Flsusie,
Unfortunately, I discovered you have to cup open and destroy the hourglass-shaped bottles to release the seedlings without damaging the stem or roots. I'd collected almost 5 LARGE garbage bags of water bottles from my job before I found out I'd have to destroy each one, and recollect bottles each season. Not necessarily a problem, but it does take time to poke holes in all those bottles.

But, a good friend (Digger93) came through Houston and dropped off a HUGE garbage bag FULL of 4" seedling pots. I'm going to use those instead (you can see them in the pic above) to sow the seeds and grow them up to hardening off stage in the same pots. Dr. Thor didn't do any additional potting up, and she had a beautiful crop of tomatoes.

I'm am going to sort through the bottles, because there are some that have straight walled sides that you can slip the plants out of easily without cutting open the bottle. So, if you're doing water bottles, keep an eye out for the straight walled bottles. I'll use these bottles to start off my "giveaway seedlings".

And, this will be an opportunity for another experiment, since these'll be growing the seedlings in the bottles side x side with those in the 4" pots.

Let the sowing begin!

Right down the road from me is a green house where I always bought my tomato plants. I asked how he got them so sturdy. He puts an occilating fan on his seedlings. The causes them to move in one direction and on the returns moves them the opposite direction. Makes for a stronger and sturdier plant.

Yep, that fan sure does give 'em a workout and builds up muscles!