Saving tomato seeds

I am having problems this year with fermenting tomato seeds - they seem to be eager to sprout. I noticed miniscule little white sprouts on the seeds and am concerned that when I dry them they will not be viable for sprouting in the spring. Is there a trick to getting the enzymes (fermentation) to remove the protective coating without the seeds springing into action right away?

The only thing I know of is to wrap them in a paper towel and refrigerate them...it Simulates Winter, ... I leave them in, until I Sow them...I sow B.I. Brandywine Beefsteak, as soon as I can work the South Garden, and then let them harden in early spring...I hope this helps...

what exactly does it mean to ferment the seeds?

Damsel_Gardener - In Dr. Carolyn Male's (sticky) article about starting seeds at the top of the Tomato Forum, I found this paragraph. I think it explains the problem you're having:

Dr. Carolyn: "As regards fermentation, in all the years I've been doing it the only time I get germination of seeds in the mix is when I've let the fermentation go too far. I've never had germination of seeds before that. Are you making sure that you have plenty of liquid in the mix? With certain varieties I don't get much juice so I always add a tad of water."

risingcreek - Tomato seeds have a protective layer around them to keep them from sprouting. That's what keeps them from sprouting in the same year they drop on the ground. In the soil, bacteria and yeasts consume that layer in time so the seed will be ready to sprout the following spring.

When saving tomato seeds, you have to ferment that protective layer off then dry the seeds for storage. It's very simple. I cut an "X" in the bottom of tomatoes I'm saving seeds from, then squeeze the seeds, pulp, and juice into a 16 oz. plastic cup. If I don't get enough juice, I add water to bring the cup half-full. Leave the cup at room temperature for 4 or 5 days and mold and yeast will form on the surface of the liquid. This smells pretty bad so don't do it in the house - I use the workbench of my carpenter shop.

After 4 or 5 days I take the cup outside and use a garden hose to gently fill it with water. Then swirl the mixture around and gently pour off the pulp, yeast, and junk that comes to the top. GOOD SEEDS GO TO THE BOTTOM, so let them do that and keep filling the cup, swirling the liquid around, and pouring off the lighter material that doesn't sink to the bottom. This is like panning for gold!

After filling the cup and rinsing the mix about 10 times, only the good seeds are left in clear water. I pour almost all the water out, swirl the seeds around, and pour them out into an aluminum pie pan or styrofoam plate. Then carefully pour as much water as you can out of the plate. Put the plate of wet seeds somewhere to dry completely in a few days, then after they're dry they can be put in an envelope.

MrPappyG - Sorry, but refrigerating tomato seeds to make them "think" it's winter isn't necessary. If Damsel_Gardener's seeds have already sprouted during fermentation, I don't think refrigerating them would make them hold until spring.

Ozrak knows a lot more about this then i do but I think fermentation also reduces the chances of disease being passed on by the seeds. I believe it kills the pathogens.

ozark-thank you so much. i had envisioned a long complicated process, you make it sound easy.

Damsel, how long are you leaving them in the cup before they are sprouting? Are you adding water to the gel right away or letting it ferment before adding more water? Is this happening to several varieties or just one?
I had seeds sprout a couple of years ago when I added too much water to the gel and then forgot them! You should be able to leave them in the cup for at least 4 days so the mold forms. If you are following Ozark's method (which is similar to mine except I don't add so much water when I first squeeze them into the cup) then I don't know the cause or the answer to your problem!!

Search Youtube for saving Tomato seeds. Some good vids on there.

"following Ozark's method (which is similar to mine except I don't add so much water when I first squeeze them into the cup)"
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I should clarify that I'm squeezing about 3 tomatoes into a 16-oz. cup, which is usually enough to fill it half way. If not, I add a little water to make the cup half full because I don't want the fermenting juice and pulp to get too dry - some tomatoes have a lot more juice than others. So - usually not adding water at all, or if I do it's very little.

risingcreek, there is an easy to understand tutorial on my home page, complete with pics. Although I use jars you can reduce the quantities down to cups, glasses, etc.

And ditto what Ozark said regarding refrigerating tomato seeds that show signs of germinating, you'd kill the seed. PappyG, maybe you were trying to state something else?

Damsel, if your seeds in water are staying too warm for too long a time it'll contribute to germination. You may want to ferment them in a cooler area, out of the high heat. And unless there is almost no juice at all you might try not adding any water. Most tomatoes I ferment have plenty of juice; certain paste types I might add a tad of water but not very much.

Shoe (tomato seed fermentor)

I see we posted at nearly the same time, Ozark...and yep, we agreed on the water addition, or lack of!

Shoe

Ozark, I appreciate your comment's, I truly do, but that seem's like an arduous process to maintain seed's, even if they are the most prolific in the Garden, I'm not Questioning you, but am Questioning, why this is necessary, I'm new here, so Please bear with me. I understand that Damsel's seed's have already gone to sprout, they would probably Die in the refrigerator, I'm also not sure of that, because I've found seed's to be very Hardy, and sprout when least expected, when I take my Tomato seed's from the "PERFECT" tomato in my garden , I simply wash them off, in a strainer, dry them for a week in a paper towel, marked with the Genus, put them in a plastic bag, and refrigerate them, for 2 week's, I haven't tried this with Heirloom variety's yet, which I find the most difficult seed's to grow in my garden's, even though I have my own Mulch, compost, and Organic Dirt bin's to replenish my garden's each year, I truly do want to learn from this site, and Help when I can,
any Suggestion's on Zucchini seed would be greatly appreciated. Thank You.

Naw, it's not an arduous process. Fermenting tomato seeds is easy and kind of fun - and remember, the result is seeds that are well-dried with the protective coating removed - and they can be stored for a long time that way. I've grown tomatoes from seeds that were nine years old, but they'd been processed properly and stored in a cool, dry place.

Seeds WANT to sprout and grow, and nature often finds ways to make that happen regardless of, or in spite of, what we do. I've been chuckling at myself because I found a real good cucumber variety this year and I've been saving, fermenting, drying, and storing seeds. While I'm doing all that, I've noticed a spot at the base of the fence where my cucumbers were before I removed the vines. Obviously, a cucumber ripened and dropped there this summer and kind of dissolved into the ground. Now there's an elongated cucumber-shaped patch of 2" seedlings that have come up, probably about 40 of them - and I didn't have a thing to do with it. Nature finds a way.

To save seeds from zucchini, or anything in the squash, melon, or cuke family, the drill is similar but even easier than saving tomato seeds. Let the squash, melon, or cuke get FULLY ripe - yellow, dropping-off-the-vine, soft and rotting ripe. Split it open and use a spoon or garden trowel to scrape out the pulp containing seeds. Put that pulp in some kind of container (I use a small plastic bucket). Add a little water if needed, enough that the pulp won't dry up completely in 4 or 5 days. Let the bucket set for 4 or 5 days and the pulp will disappear and the protective coating will ferment off the seeds. Rinse with water just like with tomato seeds (good seeds go to the bottom, immature seeds float), then spread the seeds in a dish or on a newspaper until they're good and dry, and package them in an envelope.

Thanks Ozark, I'm Lucky enough to live down the street of One of the Last Organic Commercial Farmer's Left in New Jersey, Muth's Family Farm. It Seem's national Corporation's have swept in and either forced Organic Farmer's to use manipulated seed, bought them outright, or they've just given up. When I first built this House I faced 117 Acre's of a Jersey Peach Orchard, now I look at Dishevelled Home's across the Street, My one Sanctity is my Garden's, My Koi Pond, and the Fine Produce I enjoy almost Daily.
Thank You for the Response, and the Time it took to write it, Look forward to Picking your brain more soon, LOL.