"Turn 600 acres of window ledges into veggie patches"

After discovering I love gardening when growing my first veggies last year when spending a couple of years living with my parents in the US (they have lived here for several years) I am returning to Scotland this summer to my 2nd (3rd) floor flat and have been researching all possible ways to try to keep my gardening bug alive.

I came across this article about a National Trust initiative and thought I'd share it on here because I loved it!

http://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/main/w-global/w-news/w-latest_news/w-news-ledgeveg.htm

It would appear that the photo in the article is showing veggies being grown outside on a deck. ????

To me, a "window box" is hung on the outside of a window. I've tried growing edibles to maturity inside on a windowsill with disappointing results.

I agree with the article that an outside window box would do well growing the vegetables suggested, providing it received plenty of sunlight.

gmun - I find it very interesting. What exposure would you have for your window boxes?

Believe it or not, some tomato varieties can also do quite well in small pots or window boxes. For instance, Micro Tom is a super dwarf. I got a bunch of cherry tomatoes of my Micro Toms last year. Read more:
http://www.tomatodirt.com/growing-tomatoes-in-pots-small-containers.html

I think the small photo on the top right is the "window boxes" which look like containers on a window ledge/sill, the photo lower down looks like it might be a ground floor flat and there are containers on the windowsill but then there's a garden below - it's kind of hard to tell. I think the article's definitely referring to proper window boxes as you describe them though.

My flat's in an old Victorian building so I have 3 large windows facing south, one of them's a bay window with 3 window ledges so I think it would be do-able. My concern is actually thinking about how I'd make sure the containers would be safely secured, it's pretty impossible to do it from the outside and the stone is sandstone so drilling into it is not easy and it's pretty crumbly... I'm wondering about attaching a bar to the outside window frame (wood) and attaching containers to it somehow that way.

I grew tumbler cherry tomatoes in pretty small pots this summer and they worked out pretty well but the micro tom sounds ideal - will definitely add that to my list! Thanks!

This is an image of my street (found on google, my flat's not in this photo) - I really just love the image in my mind of all these flats with veggies growing on their windowsills!

It's a wonderful building and a great idea. Would the owner approve of window boxes or would the insurance company allow it?

In the past many people have grown vegetables on their fire escapes only to be told by the local fire departments that they were a hazard.

I hope you're allowed to do it.

The whole system is different in Scotland - no-one actually owns the building as such, every person who owns a flat/apartment in each building is responsible for a share of the entire building. There are 7 flats in my "stair" so any repairs are split 7 ways. So there isn't a whole building insurance either, each person insures their individual flat but that's also building insurance. So in terms of all that I think as long as I can secure windowboxes so they are safe, it should be ok.

There's no-one from stopping me trying to do it anyway (like no HOA laws or anything) so I think as long as I secure it I should be ok (and so ensues a conversation with my dad about why I shouldn't use power tools... I have my own!!)

Good for you! Hope you can hear my applause!

Then go for it as long as it's secure and I'm sure you can accomplish that.

gmum - I'm British, so I know gardening is "in our blood" - if there's a way to use window boxes, you'll find it!

Those south facing bay windows sound ideal, you could probably grow things inside and out.

Love the photo; reminds me of "home" - most of my family lives in the Greater London area.

Funny HB I really felt that when I grew my first veggies last summer. Am so unhappy about the idea of not having a garden after enjoying that so much so I hope you are right... I plan to try anyway! :-)

There is a shared back garden, but so many flats have access to it I really don't know if would be feasible to try anything with it, I'd like to try setting up a wee garden club but I'm not sure if it would work...

Go for it! Start a club and you'll meet new neighbors and enjoy the whole process so much.

gmum - sharing information at a garden club is great fun. I belonged to one when I lived in Tennessee.

I'd appreciate any info on starting a garden club if anyone can help...

My problem/ concern is that lots of the flats are rented by students (yes I'm going to be one as well but still...) and some flats have 3/4/5 bedrooms, so that's quite a lot of people in all those buildings and there's no way of making a garden private, so I'm a bit concerned people would steal stuff or ruin it. And that sounds like a dreadful thing to say but sadly when I see someone leave their keys in their car over here or even furniture on their porch I think "that wouldn't happen at home" - someone would be away with it! Really.

Maybe I'll just try to put some faith in humanity and give it a go anyway...!!!

Please do. You'd have to ask the other students what vegetables they like to eat and hope for cooperation in all respects.

They're not likely to notice peas, cucumbers or most green vegetables but I'd guess tomatoes would stand out. All you can do is give it a try and hope for the best knowing we're all "rooting" for you.

Around here homes are left unlocked, keys and purses are left in the car when running in to buy a newspaper and garage doors are left wide open. It's a very good feeling.

Just thought of a sign I saw that you could post:

Thou shalt not steal. The government does enough of it for you.

'"rooting" for you' - I like that!

Lol and lol!

It's the same where we are in PA and I think it's really nice. But I don't know why it's not that way in the UK. I grew up on a pretty nice street, quiet road, private street-owned gardens and so on and there were still break-ins and cars got stolen... sometimes I think it's maybe just because it's such a small place so it's easy to get from one area to another, but I don't know really... Again, we were watching the news the other night and people had been putting furniture (patio chairs, recliners!) to save their car space in Philly after they had cleared the snow and we were just saying at home someone would just lift it, it wouldn't be any use - you'd lose your car space and your patio chairs!! Sad reflection.

I have a while to plan a gardening club as I'm not going to be back in Edinburgh until this summer but am trying to get lots of ideas and so on so I can get going on it as soon as I get back. Although I think the garden project might be next year but if I could get a few people interested we could work on something late summer. Another problem would be if no-one else is interested and people don't want a veggie garden. And they're not all students.... just a pretty large percentage. Will definitely start gathering info on garden clubs I think though. All suggestions welcome! :-)

The window boxes are a definite project for me for this summer though, I'll probably buy plants when I get back rather than growing from seed. I found these, they are mounted on a bar and are really cool but pretty expensive. Maybe I can improvise.

I've used deck brackets in the past to mount window boxes to the wooden window frame as opposed to the side of the building. They come in all kinds of configurations and I've always been able to make them work.

I've used this kind too. The "lip" portion in the back comes off and you can mount them flat if you've got a wide enough horizontal ledge on the outside of the window.

gmum - my personal fear regarding a shared garden would be others using pesticides/herbicides/fungicides etc. If they were not careful, that stuff could easily drift onto my organic vegetables.

I once had a garden in South Florida that backed onto a canal. Local teenagers loved to pick the veggies and throw them into the canal. I put up a sign (I don't remember exactly what it said but something like:) WARNING: experimental spraying being done. DO NOT EAT OR HANDLE. - for some reason the sign worked. I guess the young are also gullible. Maybe somethinbg similar would protect your plot.

Once you return to Scotland, don't forget we at Dave's Garden will still be here to give you encouragement.

Thanks for the info - brackets look good Liza, I have been thinking I will have to mount them to the window frame so good to know that works.

HB, love the sign ideas. Will keep that all in mind.

Thank you for the kind words, I still plan on asking lots of questions here when I get back there. The advice on this site has been so good for learning about gardening. Even though I'll have a different climate, there is so much info on here that I'm sure will still be very helpful.

In what zone equivalent do you garden in Scotland?

Pirl, that turned out to be a very interesting question with a totally different answer than I expected! Apparently most of the UK, Edinburgh included, is actually equivalent to US zone 8 because of the effect of the Gulf Stream on the UK climate.
http://www.gardeningzone.org/content/content.php/hardiness-zones-uk/

Which would mean it's similar to here near Philly where I think I'm zone 7 but the weather gets a lot warmer here in the summer and I always thought that was important for certain plants so I think I'll be doing some research on this....

I did see many palm trees in Ireland, which shocked me, but it, too, is due to the Gulf Stream.

Here we are in zone 7. I'd think of zone 8 more like Alabama and Mississippi.

You're going to have great fun!

It's a strange climate. It's very wet because of the size of the land surrounded by so much water and yes, you get areas (in Scotland it's a specific point up on the west coast) where the gulf stream brings almost tropical conditions at times but palm trees wouldn't grow elsewhere. But the Gulf Stream does still prevent really sub-freezing conditions for the most part considering how far north the UK is - although this winter has been particularly cold with lots of snow which is unusual. And Edinburgh is always colder with the wind off the North Sea whereas Glasgow (an hour away) is always wetter. Weird.

But I might be able to grow more than I thought... although I'll still have to look into the sun/ heat requirements. At least there shouldn't be a problem with water since it rains constantly!! I always love a challenge and a project so it will be fun!

gmum - I would not have guessed zone 8. I grew up in Penzance, Cornwall, England where we were influenced by the gulf stream on both coasts, and the winters were very cold. I could see, maybe zone 7 only with a lot more rain. It rarely rains here in the summer, which is good for preventing fungus diseases, but hard on the water bill.

I was really surprised when I looked that up. Turns out it is only in heat zone 1 though (1 or fewer days above 30 degrees... funny that) so I will still have to plant veg that don't require long hot summers, just that the winters will not be as hard on the plants as I would have thought. Cornwall seems to be equivalent to zone 9, and it just seems there's such a huge difference in climate (summer and winter) between Cornwall and Edinburgh...

But, yeah, I don't imagine having to worry about not getting enough rain!!

I found this article pretty interesting and I think I got the link to heat zones from it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardiness_zone

It has been a while since I've been on here and I thought I'd add to this thread as it's still kind of on topic...

I am back in Scotland and returned home in August but I have not yet managed any planting or windowboxes as I fell at the top of the stairs way back in June and pretty much wrecked my shoulder trying to save myself. Fractured shoulder blade, torn muscles and ligaments and a lot of nerve damage. I was pretty much one-armed for a couple of months and am only now, very slowly, getting a bit of movement back into it so the gardening has been put on hold (with many other things!) for now. On the upside, I'm pretty sure I'm going to be ambidextrous soon ;-)

So apart from a few houseplants that have not required very much effort on my part I am suffering from some real garden withdrawal!! And our clocks went back this weekend too, so I think the miserable arrival of winter is not helping! I am dying to plant something!

Anyway, I popped on here to say hi and maybe someone who is lucky enough to live in a southerly area could cheer me up with some pretty photos of their garden...?! Hope everyone is well!

G

So sorry to hear of your fall and your injuries. That would put a halt to most gardening (and gardeners) for awhile! Though I'm not exactly "southerly" I hope this will cheer you up on the dark days ahead.

Hi gmun, here I am, an old Edinburger myself, now living on the West coast last 40 years where as you said earlier, the climate here is wetter but milder, now you are back home you will realise all the stuff you thought you new about our British climate can be planted under the window boxes as for the last few years the climate here UK wide has changes so much that mature plants are showing signs of the changes.
As for you starting a garden club, I know lots of students who love growing their own food, these are the new generation of folks who are more wised up to what they see as natural foods or shop bought food that have to travel half way around the world just because cost is a factor as well as choice, on saying that, there is a movement growing here where folks are now asking "do we need to have Strawberries on Christmas day when they are flavorless, cost a fortune and they have traveled for weeks in freezer containers to stop them rotting and are sprayed with chemicals to slow down the ripening process till they reach the stores we buy them from, GB is full of seasonal fruit/ veg that can be grown in our own soil and sold locally.
Why don't you stick a leaflet through each letterbox to call a meeting re starting up a gardening club so all interested parties can help establish a plot in the back garden of the block of flats, you may be surprised at the response you get.
As regards what you can grow here, my daughter who lives in Edinburgh has been growing their own veg for over 5 years now and this year had a glut of pumpkins, they do have an 8-10 feet stone wall on all 3 sides of their garden which as you will know makes a nice micro climate for growing fruit / veg etc, it has taken her at least 3 years to build up her soil and now her little girl grows beens and peas, so you can grow almost anything here so long as you start things off indoors, know you have a much shorter season and believe me, there are some seasons (like this one here on west coast where you wish you had never bothered nurturing any veg as there was a huge storm came end of May and our whole coastline was desemated leaves shredded from trees, plants laying all over the ground etc, but you know what, next year I will be back out there trying to grow my veg and salad things, tomato's in my greenhouse along with cucumbers , peppers etc, but hey, I don't have the luxury of a walled garden and have to make my own climate work, you will learn that too.
There is a whole new movement going on here in UK of folks growing window box veg / container growing, there is a long waiting list for allotment gardening you have to put your name down with council ???? but there are allotments all over the city, been in use for over 100 years, there are gardening clubs all over the city, there are resident associations wishing to be set up to help keep the shared areas clean and tidy, so go for it, don't get disheartened and be positive, stop looking for problems that are not yet there, have the glass half full instead of half empty. the winter time is a great time to get people together and some will be glad to get to know who actually lives in there flats, not everyone will be interested but if a few are, then you can draw up a constitution for a little committee to help you out. good luck a go for it, were all on your side.
Good luck. WeeNel.

Thanks for the replies :)

Pirl, what a beautiful photograph, that certainly brought a smile to my face.

WeeNel, thanks for the tips. I have been getting information on the university's 'permaculture' club, they grow veg and I think that is something I will join next year when I can get a bit more active again. I am amazed at the number of flowers that are still in full bloom here just now, the weather seems to be very strange. It makes my walk to university nice and bright though - and definitely makes me look forward to some window box gardening next year.

Gmun, glad you decided to keep an open mind and work with what you can till you get all the info you need, I do know there are allotments all over Edinburgh and the beauty is, they cost annually next to nothing for rental, you just need to get your name down on the list for getting one plot. also it used to be the case that if you were an allotment holder they had good means of getting discounts for seeds, tools, composting equipment etc, so it would be worth your while looking into it, I don't know what part of the city you live in but there are any amount from Portobellow, Lieth, Stockbridge, Meddowbank, in fact all corners of the city, the age group range from 20 year olds to 70 / 80 year olds who keep all the young ones interested and help them out with hints and tips. the only stipulation is that IF you don't work the plot (as in keep it tidy) or you can loose it which is fare, I know some families who have passed the plot's down the generations for well over a hundred years, hope you feel better soon and you can get things sorted out for next spring.
By the way the weather has been hell here on the West coast it is freezing with ground frost tonight, nice and fresh which is good as we have had very wet windy weather the best part of the year. good luck. WeeNel.

There is a 7 year waiting list for an allotment in Edinburgh! I think the university club and my windowsills are a better option for next year! There are also some community gardens in my area which I think I will look into in more detail when I have two working arms again.

I hope you are surviving that nasty West Coast weather, we have been strangely fortunate with our weather up until now - lots of bright sunny days, and not as cold as usual for this time of year.

Glad your able to get things sorted out for next season and your starting to get your strength back, keep searching clubs etc for a space to grow stuff, even put your name down for a sever year wait for an allotment, you never know, some people in front of you might drop out / move away etc, if you get moved up the list and they contact you to say there is a space for you, there is no law to say you HAVE to accept, but best to be in the position to turn something away that not get the chance at all.
There is nothing to say you will still be in the same area of the city in a few years time anyway so stick your name down for several plots I would say.
Anyway gnum, take good care and have a wonderful festive season, don't know IF you have been in Edinburgh but the new year street party is wonderful but you will need tickets and make sure you wrap up worm. Best wishes. WeeNel, XXXX.

Gmun, I married a first generation American, my in-laws are from Edinburgh. If you you would like to start something now, wintersown.org is a great site with lot's of info for crops that can be grown indoors, our outdoors even in winter. I live near the small finger of the mitten in Michigan, U.S.A. We are zone 5 here :-) We've had snow a few times now but the Swiss chard, radishs', herbs and carrots are still growing away outside. I've a few tomatoes on the window sill with the amaryllis for the winter, and will start some greens in the window soon as well. Hope this helps your garden itch :-)

Hi,

Gardening is on hold again as it is now looking like I need shoulder surgery :-(

However hopefully that will be done quickly and by the time I am moving about again I can get planting.

Audsrz ,thanks for the site I will look that up. And thanks for the photo, I always love seeing other people's projects :-)

WeeNel, I spoke to the university gardening club, they have a huge allotment site out at King's buildings in the south of the city so I think that will be the best way to go along with some window sill stuff. It appeals to me to share the work with others - and learn from them - and it'll be a nice way to get to know more people as well. I was in the US at my parents' for new year but I have partied in Edinburgh before and it is definitely a wonderful place to be at hogmanay! I hope you had a good new year!

G

Hi G, good to hear from you again, glad you got sorted out with which way you want to go for growing stuff, as I get older and cant really do a lot of heavy work in my large garden, I too am beginning to grow more things (VEG) in containers, bags, large pots, even old wheelbarrows, so my gardening has taken me full circle, I started off like you in Edinburgh growing flowers in pots in the kitchen window, moved to tomatoes and cucumbers peppers etc in window sills after we were first married and we had left home and family garden behind, it is amazing what you can grow in containers and seed
companies are beginning to bread seeds / plants especially for growing in smaller spaces or shallow beds, so before you know it, you will eventually move in the years to where I am now with 10 acres and now looking to downsize almost back to the small time gardening that started me off, life really is a circle ha, ha, ha.

My husband was born South side of City and 5 mins from the kings building, and your right G, Gardening and Gardening clubs are a great way to meet new like minded people from all walks of life, the old timers are my favorite as they worked there plots with nothing but a hole in their boots and could feed their families from this small plot of ground, they understood the soil, they new the seasons like the back of their hands and from how they talk, they loved the soil between their fingers. Hope you get as lucky as I have been with all my mentors. just have fun, enjoy the city of Edinburgh my land of birth, and have a great 2012.
Good luck, Weened.