Winter Sowing PNW Style

Pixy, I will pass on your offers, but thanks so much anyway. It is hard to believe than I can't find that artemisia in ANY of the numerous seed catalogs this year. I just might have to resign myself to the silver dust variety to fill in my baskets this year.

Emory's Nursery, near me, throws their big and small pots into a plywood bin in a corner of the parking lot.

First come, first scrounged. It's a bonanza!

I like the name of a place on Nantucket. People donate used items (dump them). You're welcome to pick it over and take what you want. They call it "Take It or Leave It".

Corey

PNMMG ~ Just curious...what is the botanical name of that dusty miller? There are so many different ones. (Silver feather??)

EVELYN, doing a little more research, I am thinking that it is really tanacetum ptarmiciflorum, which appers to be mitaken for a dusty miller on occasion.

It appears as though B and T World Seeds has it.

Ugh. I haven't started anything yet. Piles of empty milk jugs mock me. Guess I better whip myself into -shape and get some stuff done. Last year I think it was mid-March before I got around to it, and everything did great, so I'm not going to panic- but it would be nice to get them started a little earlier this year. ;)

The recent storms remind me that Feb is probably not a month to build a cloche in, all I do is maintain it, and I doubt there is much temperature control.

Winter storms are one thing that make wintersowing so appealing. Along with these I have sprouts of spinach, kale, wildflower mix, calendula, and two kinds of chamomile. Too rainy out there for me to poke around a look for more than that, that's just what I saw in a glance while holding my jacket over the camera to get a quick shot. :)

Has anyone seen this:
http://myfolia.com/gardener/Pixydish#
It has a useful seed tracking/organizing tool.

Pixydish, thank you for the Snapdragon seeds. I had some caterpillars on the plants that I had last year but the plants died while I was on vacation so I didn't get to gather seeds.

All three mice (Microsoft, Apple and Linux) haven't been seen since I took down the bird feeder. Let's hope that some seeds will germinate. I think I should double check some of the seeds I planted to make sure they are even viable since they were received in trades. I'd rather be disappointed that they are duds now than disappointed that they never germinated come Spring.

I'm sorting thru my seeds and deciding what I'm going to start outside vs. inside under lights this year. Quick question to all you winter sowing folk - is there any advantage to doing the winter sowing method with seeds of hardy annuals that you would sow out at this time of year anyway? I'm thinking mainly of a bunch of different annual poppy seeds that I got from Select Seeds (some gorgeous colors of California, Shirley, and Opium poppies). Any point in winter sowing them? Or is this really for things I'd need to wait until after the last frost day to start outdoors?

I did finally set up 5 jugs with some flower seeds. When would I want to wintersow basil? And, yes, I'm also wondering if there is any reason to wintersow things I normally direct sow (pumpkins, zuke, lettuce, beans). Seems they would be stronger to just set their roots where they will be, but perhaps not? What about corn?

I do plan to try to WS some creeping thyme, just need to find the right seed, I like the red variety and it needs to be low to the ground (not the more bushier thyme). Anyone have some or know where I can locate seed? I've already placed my seed order (Territorial) and they didn't have a creeping red, so I'll likely want to find a packet at a local nursery.

Kym, I cannot direct sow much of anything as I have such a slug problem being out in the woods. I even have a few issues with slugs in the greenhouse because I overwinter lots of stuff. It takes constant vigilence.

Bonehead, I do start my corn in the greenhouse becasue it seems the crows, mice and weed rats get to the seeds before they germinate in the garden. Again, being out in the "sticks" puts a whole different perspective on how to start things. Last year I had a problem with mice in the greenhouse, too, and had to start my corn three times. I will be setting traps early this year.

There is a red creeping thyme??

Several flats sown, still no sign of mice, and I see new growth about! No seed germination though.

So Sharon you're saying you winter sow because you can't direct sow due to the slug patrols? That makes sense.

I just started some seeds indoors under lights. Maybe I'll try a container of each outside as well and see what works best.

I'm all excited today because I came across a pair of pretty window panes with a free sign and scooped them up. They are the shutter kind of windows that swing out with lots of small panes of glass. My mind is dreaming up all kinds of ways I could make some kind of cold frame kind of device with them...

Tiki, it's more of a deep pink, but I think it is referred to as red (kind of like all the purple flowers many books seem to think are blue). Actually, while it is budding out, it does look reddish. One variety I have is Thymus serphyllum 'Coccineus' and the other I marked as Thymus rubrus (guessing, and to identify it as the reddish one). I could probably snip and root starts, but I have a pretty large area to plant and was thinking seed would give me more bang for the buck.

Googled Red Creeping Thyme, I think I'll look for that at the nursery lol.

I have 4 flats of winter sown seeds outside. Two are disposable roasting pans with slits, one is a commercial flat and one is a window box flat. I am having much more luck than milk cartons and I already see a seedling. There might be more but I couldn't stay bent down to see lol.

I need to pick up a couple more flats, a few more seeds and do a few more. My Dad likes these much more than the milk cartons because the cartons are more visible by the neighbors.

I checked the cloche just before this last snow, and all of my radishes have sprouted, I have not checked again, fearing for the worst. Nothing else has sprouted.

I experimented with some flower seed which I winter sowed in mid Feb. So far, not even a glimmer of anything growing. Shall I call if a failure, or keep waiting? My jugs are nudged into the soil in a west facing planter box, so they get good afternoon sun and are in a spot that I actually remember to check them for water or life. Salvia and hollyhock.

Deb, I am having the same experience. The only sprouting I have had is black ball centaura, and I have done some snapdragons and penstemon amonght others. Only have a half dozen or so jugs, but I am thinking we need SOME sun to get things going.

I certainly haven't given up hope yet.................

I've only had a very few delphiniums come up, and they have stalled at 1/4" to 1/2", 2 seeding leaves. Like, 1% germination.

Mine were in shade until recently, and I was mostly trying to start these:
penstemon (10 varieties)
delphinium (6)
salvia (6 varieties)
Lobelia (3)
columbine (2)
Iris (3)
Allium (1)
Viola cornuta (1)
Butterfly Weed (1)

My first year WS. So far, even worse than my indoor-tray experience!

And my indoor trays look better this year, now that I have fast-draining mix in my insert cells and plug trays: pine-bark-based instead of mostly-peat.

Corey

Seeds need heat and we're having a record cold spring . . .

>> we're having a record cold spring . . .

Oh! I thought I was just being impatient. Cool (so to speak).

Maybe I should put my WS tubs under a plastic tent.

Corey

Yeah, Rick - last year and the year before were both cool springs, but this one is downright cold. I heard today that this is the first time ever in recorded history that we haven't had a 55 degree or above day in the first two weeks of April. And we've been consistently 10 degrees below our average temperatures for the last month and a half.

Here's a good weather blog: http://www.komonews.com/weather/blogs/scott

And the blog by Cliff Mass, who has become a sort of weather celebrity: http://cliffmass.blogspot.com/

Thanks!

I think it was three years ago, when i had misread a frost-date chart and thought that Everett's 50% day was in mid-March, that I re-sowed three times due to heavy frosts and even snow after I expected 'probably no frost'.

I agree with whoever wanted to rename "global warming" to "global wierding".

Corey

Yeah warming may be happening on average at the poles, but the rest of us are just getting storms. I haven't watched an Inconvenient Truth yet because I know it will scare me. I'm already convinced . . .

Well I admit I am really bummed. My wintersowing went just fine, I could show you jugs full of sprouts and seedlings, spinach, broccoli, kales and lettuces, wildflowers, even the lavender and the monarda have sprouted and I see a bean just about to come out........ but this weather! They sprout and then they just sit there. And the ones I was foolish enough to plant out in the ground could not grow big enough fast enough....... some eaters got most of them.....

I think I feel this way most every year about this time though. Today I made the mistake of going to the garden store, and all the little three and four inch tall greenhouse grown veggies mocking my puny efforts made me blue. My sprouts are healthy as far as they go, but they are disadvantaged children, out in the cold and the gray, no warm glass walls for them. It's just not fair! :)

(Later in the year I will get over this, if the sun ever comes out for more than one day a week!)

I am not going to attempt tomatoes at all I don't think.



This message was edited Apr 15, 2011 8:01 PM

Over 50% of the containers/flats I had didn't germinate what so ever. I'd say one or two were victims of harsh wind. The rest resulted in seedlings, although a mix of good and minimal amounts.
I had good results with disposable roasting pans from the Dollar Tree, window sill trays and full size trays. No results with milk jugs. My seed flats sat on my south facing deck and I rarely, if ever, watered. I had a small issue with moss, a lot in fact, but I think it comes with the location. Errors with certain seeds could be the results of receiving duds or just not winter sowing material.

The good results, that WERE NOT eaten:
Korean Mint ... every seed came up.
Golden Jubilee Hyssop ... two seedlings total
Blue Fortune Agastache ... one seedling.
Anise Hyssop ... a load of seedlings that resemble the two Golden Jubilee. Either they are seriously suffering from something or an error has been made.
Creeping Thyme ... every seed came up, still tiny and just getting their true leaves.
Herbs Thyme, Oregano, Parsley, Sage ... Initially had no germination but after buying new seeds I had a decent amount of germination.

The good results, that WERE eaten:
Gaillardia ... 4 seedlings, breakfast
Penstemon ... 3 seedlings, lunch
Hibiscus ... 2 seedlings, dinner
Hyssopus ... 4 seedlings, dessert

I am truly confused as to why people are not getting germination and sturdy plants with the milk jug method. This is outside my door right now:

Every one of the covered ones also has germination going on, just not big enough for me to feel I should leave the top off (well, except the three new jugs just sown this morning with dandelion greens -- Catalogna Frastagliata)

This is a close up of NON wintersown greens, showing previously in the large black nursery pot. These were sown late last fall and nursed through the winter, just now getting a bit of size on them:

Whereas these here, were wintersown and planted out in another container, and are nearly big enough to start munching for a salad! (The creature is my "rescue bug" -- found it in a bundle of collards purchased the other day, still alive, so I put him out on the salad to see if he'd recover. Looks like he is. Wasps are good to have around. Edit: Heck, maybe he's a moth. Looked like a wasp when he was all frozen and wet, though! Anyway, hope he makes it. Taking some sun today, which we thankfully have a little of!!!!!!)



This message was edited Apr 17, 2011 12:08 PM

I did lose an entire jug of really lovely sunflower starts to a slug. Oh well!

I am not meaning to sound smug or to gloat or any of that crap, but because this works so very well for me I wonder if there is something I could share that would assist somebody who is finding it does not work for them. Clearly our growing conditions are similar enough that should not be an issue?

anyway, for what it's worth! I also do not really have any other reasonable way to start from seed, not at all set up for anything like that, so I'm real grateful for this method.

Kylaluaz you're not bragging, just showing the benefits of winter sowing. I think I did quite well for my first year and it was a learning experience. Next year is bound to go better. Best thing I can do is go back, see what worked, what didn't and think of why it did.

I think the location of the jugs and a few dud seeds were my issues. I had to have mine on my deck and the jugs didn't get watered by the rain as well as I had hoped. I tried my hardest to hand water but it kept drying out. The flats collected the rain a bit better. I didn't think of removing the upper portion until it was too late.

That would do it, not getting watered by the rain. Why can't you have them someplace outside on the ground?

Last night we had a he**a hail storm, yikes! but to my utter amazement, nobody got hurt. I was a touch concerned for my lavender and monarda seedlings as they are teeny tiny and were out there uncovered. But they, nor anyone else, showed any harm at all from the pounding, sheesh! Today thank goodness is warmish, like mid fifties, and sunny, oh my.

Looking good, Kyla! I want to try wintersowing but something about my biological clock won't move a muscle until it senses spring, so I have never managed any sort of planning ahead.

Like tikipod, this was my first year WSing. And I got about 6 sprouts out of hundreds of seeds, dozens of 3.5" pots.

Maybe I had too much shade: on the porch until very recently, to keep away from slugs.
At first, the lids were more opaque than milk jugs. Later, the lids were milky 2 mil plastic film.
If the seeds needed light, maybe they needed more light than they got.

My bet is on this: porch = no sun, no greenhouse effect, cold spring, cold soil: BZZZT.

Maybe they dried out very briefly, but there was always condensation when I popped a lid and spritzed them gently. And they all had a layer of vermiculite on top of the mix.

Maybe my homemade mix was too coarse. I was trying desperately to avoid waterlogging.

I did try to start some "slow and irregular" germinators like Penstemon. I've read that "if your Penstemon don't germinate the first year, save those pots and try aggain next winter".

Maybe you island has been warmer than some of the inland folks?

By the way: it ain't boasting if ya can DO IT!

Corey

I know that feeling well. However, wintersowing comes from the feeling of "got to get set up for it" that comes over me in the dead of winter. So when spring does arrive, I am more or less ready to go at least with some things.

anyway, it turns out it is a grand method no matter when you start.... in summer you have to watch out for overheating under the lids, at least in *some* climates, maybe not here! but even so, as I said, for me who have no other set up, it works a treat.

Corey we cross posted, that reply was to summerkid.

Do you have slugs in mid winter? I would still put it outside, as that's part of the magic of t he method, apparently.

Also, if you use different types of containers, you need drainage as well as light and room for evaporation as well (the lids on the jugs get left off.) I dunno! but the other thing is that layer of vermiculite on top may have been overkill. with the jugs, if the seeds are little I don't even cover them, just press them into the soil which I have thoroughly soaked beforehand. If they are medium sized I will lightly sprinkle some of the same mix they're planted in, and spritz that down. If they're large I do poke them into the soil, like beans for instance....

>> Do you have slugs in mid winter?

Interestingly, yes, I had a big population explosion quite a while ago, during a warm spell. I set out beer saucers and caught lots. Then it got cold again, and I've seen few since, not even eating the one delphinium survivor.


>> you need drainage

Got that, I think, with multiple 1/4" holes.

>>as well as light

Probably not enough

>> and room for evaporation as well (the lids on the jugs get left off.)

Maybe not, but I kept checking for excessive condensation. Maybe the initial lids were not ventilated enough.

Next year I'll start with the 2 mil slitted film coverings, bigger slits, and I guess start them out on the deck, in the sun.

I'll either surround all drainage holes and vents with window screening, keep some slug bait inside the tubs, or rent an R2D2 or ducks to catch encroaching slugs.


>> that layer of vermiculite on top may have been overkill.

Hmm ... everyone says "don't cover" for some seeds, but that gives me the heebie-jeebies. I figure that a thin layer of fine vermiculite even lets light through. But I'll try some with just vemriculite UNDER the seeds, not over them.

Thanks for all the suggestions! I'll add them to my WS notes, and be trying them out next year.

Hopefully, only 2-3 of those were actually fatal mistakes.

Corey