Winter Sowing PNW Style

Corey, I knew you'd understand perfectly.

:)

OK, so today we started penstemon, columbine, cleome (old seed, we are still stratifying the new stuff), blackberry lilies.

I was thinking the locals could come and pickup if there was an interest. Never sent anything other than seeds. Would you be taking a trip up this way? If you are interested I could try.

Well, the snow did melt but I don't think I would be doing any traveling right now. Can you tell me what species of primrose it is? I have only seen Primula obconica in a peach color. Do you have a picture? Thanks!

~ Evelyn

It is not in bloom yet. When it does I will snap a piture. It is an english double if that helps.

Kyla, your wonderful pics motivated us, and as PNW said above, we started some of our wintersowing last weekend. We looked back at our records from last year, and we had started our first WS on Jan 15, and our last batch in early March. It seems like we had the most success with the stuff that we started mid to late February. We sure did learn a lot from things that DIDN'T go right last year, so hopefully this year will be a bigger success story!

Julia, I have spent a couple of days out of doors over the last couple of weeks, and you are right... it is amazing how many little slugs are everywhere! I am on the same page as you hoping that early cleanup helps control them a bit... am also spraying all of my uncovered plants with an amonia spray to add to the prevention.

I am in need of more stuff for my growing mix...... in order to do some more jugs. Also waiting for a slight warm up as last couple days have been too cold for my comfort though I am sure the seeds would have been just fine!

Glad to hear your records give mid Feb as the good time of success as that looks like when I will actually be doing most of my WS-ing anyways! I know I had good success in Weed from stuff sown as early as late December! but it sat out on the deck under snow lots of that time...... might have done just as well sown in Feb, who knows!

Kyla,

>> I am in need of more stuff for my growing mix...

What is your magic soil mix? I didn't see it up above.

I just made 36 3.5" pots of:

almost a cubic foot of "fine"shredded pine bark (passes a 1/4" screen)
small bag of Orchid Bark (screened with 1/4" screen)
8 qts of "Orchid Mix" also screened down to 1/4", removing many big bark chunks
around 6 qts of coarse Perlite
(haven't found chick grit yet)
small bag (4 qts?) of almost-powdered peat (Jiffy Mix seed start mix).

I fear the shredded pine bark isn't sterile since it is marketed for "mulch", but hopefully that matters less for WS than it would indoors.

I plan to probably WS most of these, 9-12 seeds per 3.5" pot:

9 kinds of Penstemon (maybe I'm starting that 3-4 weeks late for some varieties).
5 kinds of Lobelia.
Maybe as many as 10 kinds of Salvia, though I guess not all kinds need stratification.
Allium "Purple Sensation"
Columbine McKana's Giant Blend
Columbine Dk Blue - Purple from deejay9
Butterfly Flower (Asclepias tuberosa)
A few Delphiniums: darn the slugs, full speed ahead!

Salvia and petunias are also overdue for starting indoors.
I seem to see that Lobelia can also be started indoors, though others say "stratify".

If I found time to research them, these would be my next candidates for WS,
but it looks like that research may have to be done next year!

"Lion's Tail" = "Wild Daga" = Leonotis leonurus
Viola "Johnny Jumpup"
Japanese Iris
Blue Flag Iris = Iris Virginica
Tiger Lily = Lilium lancifolium var. splendens
Chinese Tiger Lily
Philipine Lily
Fortnight Lily
White Trumpet Lily
White Datura "Moon Flower"
Cactus Dahlia


Corey

Lord, Corey, I don't have any magic mix. What I have is always some mix of, well, what I have. But it has to include some decidedly non sterile compost/and/or/manure. And I have no desire to argue about that with the folks who tell us it is stupid and foolish to use organic material in containers. I think I understand their reasons but I has MY reasons. It's all good.

So this time I had a ton of that topsoil mixed with some unknown percentage of probably steer manure, left over from putting it on the beds out back, and I had some peat moss which I never buy but did this year for a reason I turned out not to need it for but now glad I have it cause I have not yet managed to get some coconut coir which I HIGHLY prefer...... anyway, so soil, coir or peatmoss, compost or manure (this time I also had some fancy dancy compost from Vermont I bought in a bag from some outfit or other so as to have something on hand, used most of it up.) and some real fancy potting soil just for the sake of whatever all is in it, like maybe bat guano?

so dirt, compost, fancier potting "soil", coir or peatmoss, and vermiculite. Which I prefer to perlite mainly cause perlite is white and also what is in the store has fertilizer in it which I decidedly do NOT want. the vermiculite is clean at least.

anyway, I eyeball this and mix by hand, literally digging my hand in and shwishing around til it is all the same consistency. that's actually pretty hard work to do, it turns out. I have no idea how to tell you how much of which, either, I just do what looks and feels right to me.

It's the vermiculite I'm out of. almost out of.

Now, I know most of that stuff is totally not necessary to germinate seeds. But most of it is, IMO, necessary or at least beneficial, to growing strong seedlings and baby plants sturdy enough to put in the ground later on. which is their fate, after all. I will say I use a thinner mix, less organic material and more "fluff" and "aerating" type material in comparison to a mix I would intend to actually grow something in for long.

Cool! I appreciate knowing that a near-opposite to much that I read can work fine.

>> necessary or at least beneficial, to growing strong seedlings and baby plants sturdy

I understand: looking ahead toward the actual goal or mission!

I can beleive that including soil and compost helps seedling roots find the symbiotic microbes they need for health (endomycorhyzia?)

>> I will say I use a thinner mix, less organic material and more "fluff" and "aerating" type material

That is the direction I've been moving towards for 2-3 years. In my case, it is to mitigate the effect of poor impulse control when I have a mister or watering bottle in my hand (for indoor seed starts). I'm thinking that WS must need even better drainage/aeration.

Next year I may set up a "capilary watering mat" under indoor seedling trays, and try to avoid top-watering completely. This was recommended to me:
http://www.burpee.com/seed-starting/burpee-ultimate-growing-system-prod001254.html
and I like the idea of the Burpee $4 watering mat.

Corey


Does anyone

Yeah overwatering kills.

I used a spray bottle of water at one point, to keep the seedlings moist. I also had to do emergency surgery on some jugs that had sat in water and not been given enough drainage! Fortunately I caught those situations in time.

bottom watering for small containers is something I like also..... but I tend to do stuff like put them in a pan or something..... there is a lot of newish watering systems and items and stuff, look on Gardeners Supply if you want to exercise your drool muscles, gardeners.com -- they have so many clever things it makes my head spin.

Reminder to self: Plants knew how to grow in the dirt long before there were gardeners!

Editing to say, the first gardening book I ever read really empowered me to follow my common sense and mother wit and instincts and not pay much attention to "experts" This was Ruth Stout's How To Have A Green Thumb Without An Aching Back. In it she made it very clear that in HER learning days, when she tried to find expert advice, she most often found several voices that directly contradicted one another.

Not to say there is not a ton of lore and good advice out there from experienced growers! but just not to be too cowed by their expertise and go ahead and make mistakes and learn -- that approach does work really well.

This message was edited Feb 3, 2011 1:03 PM

>> when she tried to find expert advice, she most often found several voices that directly contradicted one another.

And that's a good thing! It shows that (along with whatever else they were doing, in whatever circumstances they had) widely divergent practices can all work.

As soon as I find a set of proceedures that work for me, I'll also start advertising some subset of them (without mentioning or being aware of the others, that make the first set practical), as the One True Way.

Or I'll remember to be humble. That's possible, too.

Corey

LOL!

I haven't killed any seeds yet this year, so I must be doing something right!

.... err, getting a late start means no seeds have yet been put into the ground, tubs, jugs, pots or trays.

"No seeds were harmed in the typing of this post."

Corey

I have two huge bags of bumper crop from the nursery. Accidentally grabbed it instead of potting mix. It's a soil conditioner and is loaded with composted stuff. Kylaluaz do you think mixing it in with some potting mix might work for winter sowing? I don't think I can get out to the nursery until Spring.

I might mix it with something like coir or peat moss plus vermiculite, rather than actual potting mix, but I sure would use it rather than not trying it........ If you do, let us know how it goes!

and once you've planted out your wintersown sproutlets, that material would still probably be good to put on the beds somewhere -- because all the good in it will not have been used up by a few seedlings. That's my thinking anyway.

No beds here. I'm mostly a container gardener so this winter sowing is for me and either the condo or some friends.

I'm so far behind that I still owe several people trade seeds.

(Hanging head in shame.)

Corey

And that is the reason I did not want to get involved with all of these trades, though I really do need to share my seeds - oh, the dilemma!

Evelyn,

I do remember that you were in the process of clearing out your seed stash, trying to reduce it by sharing and giving away, and just MIGHT ask for one or at MOST two seeds ... true potatoe seeds.

I think we must be a bad influence.

Oh, well, seedheads love company.

Corey

Am I to blame others for my addiction? Well, I could, but who would believe me?

My name is evelyn and I am a seed-a-holic. I like to share my seeds and may want just a few from others.....LOL!!! ☺

I really did want some potato seeds and then people had so many nice seeds of flowers and veggies.....and I ...just...couldn't....help myself....I am SO BAD!

... just a FEW!

I said that, too. 114 packets later ... They made me do it! Peer pressure!

"SIR! Would like just one, thin, WAFER-THIN mint?"

Corey

....just ONE corn chip?

My problem is usually that I have plenty of seeds but not enough of ones I really want lol. I'm still looking for a few of my wants and unfortunately I have the next week to look.

Well, I'm having seed pressure, which is a little bit like peer pressure only from seeds. They want me to plant em and they want me to plant em now!

sheesh.

so today I hauled off to the farm store and bought some vermiculite. They only had a big bag so I bought the big bag. So now I won't run out of the stuff. I also bought two 2 cubic ft bags of perfectly horrible but cheap and organic (just meaning it doesn't have Miracle Grrr, or the like, in it) potting soil, which I can mix with the other stuff and get some more jugs going.

I have to buy water in the jugs to get the jugs. I do have a little bit of a problem figuring out what to do with the water! so I can free up the jugs, but I think I solved it......

so tomorrow I hope to get six more jugs sowed, sown? Whatever..... but I need a couple dozen more I think......

I buy water for my jugs too. Lately I've been buying Sunny D in the larger containers and I'm saving those too. We never seem to use up the milk before it goes bad when I buy it in gallons.

Since my family is sick we will be going to the store for Gatorade. I'm going to pick up a bag of potting mix and combine it with some of this bumper crop stuff. I can just plant it in the good potting soil when it's time to transplant.

Game plan is to get two jugs done and order a few seeds I'm having a hard time finding. Then I'll work on the rest once the family is feeling better.

I sowed six more jugs: Flat leaf parsley, a mix of "wild garden" kales, a Romaine called Winter Density, some Monarda didyma (Bergamot), and some Roman Chamomile.

In the jugs I sowed earlier, there are sprouts of kale, mesclun mix, and broccoli! They liked being frozen, apparently.

The cloche went back up today after making a mess out of half of the raised bed was spread with soggy compost, I erected the trellis for peas, but punted, planting only scallions, radishes, lettuce, and cucumber. Not that the soil was warm yet, but seed is cheap and I could replant in a month if I had to. The cloche reached 90F on sunny days, and was more like 70F when it was cloudy and cold out. So I am not worrying, yet. And the peas go out tomorrow. Promise. When I can level the other half, I will plant it, too.

Okay, well I'll go out on a limb here in order to support the addictions of you seed-a-holics. After doing 200 different seed types last year, plus a seed swapping party at my own house, I have two boxes of seeds sitting here going to waste. I'm doing precious few seeds this year as a way to cure what would surely be pandemonium and chaos if I were to really pay attention to seed catalogs, etc. this year. So if you will post your seed 'wants' I'll take a look see at what I have. I have something you want, or similar, I'll send them to you. Better than having them sit on the shelf.

BTW, if you have seeds that need to be stratified, better get them outside mighty quick. Or into the fridge folded into a damp coffee filter or paper towel in a ziploc bag. Otherwise, be prepared to let them sit for a year.

I have a few I'm not sure if they need stratifying - anise hyssop, golden jubilee hyssop, korean mint, bee balm (3 types, although have yet to receive them.)

Pixy, I have searched in vain for silver feather dusty miller ( would LOVE to get it) and would be happy for any tall snapdragons you might not want. Also, profusion zinnias which I think were recommended at your seed party last year. I thought we had ordered the zinnias but find that they were crossed off of one order blank but not added to the one we planned to order from.

Oh Pixy I just reread what you typed lol.
My current wants are Hyssopus Officinalis, Snapdragons, Yarrow (looking for red, orange or pink), Jupiter's Beard, Verbana and Agastache.

Sharon, I know the artemisia you are referring to. I would love to have that one, too. It's really lovely. Alas, no seeds for that, though. I have Artemisia frigida if you are interested in that one. The only zinnias I have are tall and white, called 'Purity'. Dmail your address if you want either of those, or both.

Angela, I have some short pink snapdragons I'll send you. I also have Agastache 'golden jubilee' and also Agastache anisata. The only Achillea I have is A. filipendulina 'Cloth of Gold'.

Thank you, I'll definitely take the snapdragon ^_^ I'll have to pass on the others because I think I have all of them. I know I have both Agastache ^_^

Are you looking for anything?

Here's what I found for 'recycling' on Whidby Island. There seem to be five transfer points, called "drop-box facilities".

I don't know if they let you "browse" for empty plastic jugs, and who has time? But maybe next year.

1.
http://www.islandcounty.net/publicworks/Solid%20Waste/location.htm

===================
WHIDBEY ISLAND - North

Oak Harbor Drop Box Station 3151 Oak Harbor Rd.
limited solid waste, recyclables and household waste* (360) 675 6161 ¤ Tuesday, Saturday & Sunday 9:30-5:00**

Oak Harbor Recycle Center 2050 NE 16th Ave.
recyclables, some buy-back (360) 675 9193 ¤ Monday - Friday 10:00 - 5:00, Saturday 10:00 - 2:00

Navy Whidbey Recycles (360) 257 5481

Mailliard Landing Nursery
yardwaste & sheetrock (360) 679 8544 ¤ Monday - Saturday 8:30 - 5:00

=========================
WHIDBEY ISLAND - Central
Island County Solid Waste Complex 20062 SR 20, Coupeville
solid waste, recycling and household hazardous waste (360) 679 7386 ¤ Daily 9:30 - 5:00**

========================
WHIDBEY ISLAND - South
Island Recycling 20014 SR 525, Freeland
scrap metals and recycling
(360) 331 1727 ¤ Tuesday - Sunday 9:00 - 5:00

Bayview Drop Box Station 14566 SR 525, Bayview
limited recycling, solid waste and household hazardous wastes*
(360) 321 4505 ¤ Monday, Wednesday, Saturday & Sunday 9:30 - 5:00**


===============
http://county.wsu.edu/island/nrs/wastewise/Pages/default.aspx
"On Whidbey and Camano islands garbage is collected at five transfer points, called drop-box facilities, located at Camano Hill Road, Oak Harbor, Coupeville, Freeland and Bayview. It is trucked to a railhead on the mainland, where it is loaded aboard trains and transported to Roosevelt Regional Landfill in Washington, for disposal."

Janet Hall, Waste Wise Volunteer Program Manager

North and Central Whidbey Island (360) 678-7974
South Whidbey Island (360) 321-5111 Ext. 7974
halljn@wsu.edu WSU Extension - Island County
====================

Okay, I'll send the snaps your way. I had some in the garden last year and they bloomed over and over, and did not get floppy at all. Really nice annuals.

Hey, Corey, thanks for doing that research! I had heard that the center in Coupeville might be a good place to go for pots..... but haven't made it up there to look around yet.

This message was edited Feb 7, 2011 5:07 PM