mystified and daunted by decades-old never-divided iris!

well, I don't know about NEVER, but I have inherited a patch that is perhaps forty years old, and hasn't been divided in probably 15? 20? years...more?? What I have looks more or less like three small car tires so tightly packed with roots and stems that they look like bales of straw. There are something in the neighborhood of a gazillion little pink buds within.

To make matters worse, I've never divided iris before! But I want to dive in and save this patch. But without killing them...would be so grateful for any guidance! I guess my main questions are:

* Is it too late in the season yet? I am in zone 5.
* A little experimenting shows that I can't really break anything up without prying the whole wad out of the ground. Am I endangering the whole patch by essentially replanting the whole thing? (see photo 1)
* Also found I can't separate anything, really, until I a) break off a big piece with the big shovel blade and then b) resort to a knife, sawing off bits. Are they as resilient as I hear, or am destroying them?? (see photo 2)
* Once I have a chunk that I am breaking smaller bits off (some will come by hand, others I saw, as I said above), I become filled with doubt, because while all have buds and a nice root ball, not many have the thumb-size rhizome/tuber I look for with my dahlias etc. I fear that those are all way below in the earth and I am fruitlessly ripping the plants off by their hair, and they will not come back...(see photo 3; chunk with tuber on the left, chunk with just root ball on the right).

thanks everyone!!!

I loaned my sister my hori hori knife for dividing her iris and she said it worked so well she went out and bought herself one.

Irises should be planted and divided July, August and September. In areas with real hot summers September or October.
The rhizomes are right at the bottom of the leaves, they are not like bulbs.

Here's a pic to give you an idea

When you replant their "bums" need to be in the air

It appears she has already dug most of the pile up and now has to divide them. I see what you are saying, but the rhizomes, themselves, have to be divided at some place.

Since it is so late in the year, would you at this point advise her to hold them over the winter and plant them in the spring? If they are out of the ground and she has a lot of work to do to divide them, that seems to me to be the best thing she could do. Or am I wrong?

To keep them from freezing this winter. She doesn't have a zone number, but I think she said she is zone 5. Or do you advise her to plant them in the ground now?

I could be wrong but I think those are Siberian iris or maybe Japanese, which are different than the bearded iris. They don't have the rhizomes, they have fibrous roots. If it was me, I would leave them alone for this year, one more year won't hurt them. I have a lot that need dividing myself. Or if you can't wait, just dig up a portion as an experiment, dig deep around the edge, pry some out, might have to chop into pieces with an ax, they are tough thick roots, not into individual plants but maybe clumps around 6 inches across or something like that. Replant and mulch well, I think you have colder winters than I do. Leave the rest for next year. If the new clumps don't make it thru winter you will still have a lot left to try again. These are not dainty plants. Unless I'm wrong of course!

This is exciting, I never get to answer the questions. Everybody always beats me to it!

You all--this is wonderful! I feel fully enlightened.

Jnette, the hori hori looks like a great tool, think I will get one for my arsenal. Luckily, I stopped the digging and wrote here; I only pried up a small bit, probably less than 10 percent.

flowAjen--thanks so much for the really helpful pic and illo, that's exactly what I'm seeing! So good to know what one's dealing with (and that I don't need to dig a foot to find rhizomes...I am in the Catskill Mountains, where, they say, "there is a rock for every dirt").

shune--thank you for your plan of action, I think that's exactly what I will do, use the big chunks I have dug as an experiment for now, and come back to it in August. I feel badly now that I disturbed them at in November, but maybe the pieces will pull through. And as you say, now that I know what I am dealing with, I have so many to wirk with when I go in next year!

Thank you all again very much for your wisdom, this is such a great resource!

I'll bet they are Siberian irises since that's exactly what my one huge clump looked like this past spring. It was about 5' around.

A very strong knife (thrift shops sell them) will work if you don't get the hori hori knife in time. I'd move them in April since they'll bloom in May. Good luck.

I just moved and separated a lot of mine and planted them with a lot of manure in the hopes they'll enjoy it but we're in zone 7 here and perhaps you're in a colder zone.

While we are on the subject of irises here if you move them in the early spring will they bloom that same year? I have some Louisiana Irisis that I got from my Grandmother's yard a few years ago. They have multiplied nicely and I would like to move some to another bed. I live in zone 9 if that makes a difference.

Bonnie

Also, I have another kind of Iris that I planted last year and it didn't bloom this year. I think I may have planted it too deep. The leaves are strong and beautiful. :o) Should I dig them up and plant them correctly or will they eventually bloom?

Sorry to hijack this thread but there is some good advice on here!

bobrd, this is not my thread, but I don't think you should feel that you hijacked it. information to all is what the forum is about. My opinion.

If you have bearded iris (bulb-like rhizomes with wide light green 'blade like' leaves) then I would say they were probably planted too deep. That type needs to be planted very shallow, like partially above ground. I had a large overgrown clump that looked like small potatoes on top of the ground and some had even crept out over a part of the sidewalk (concrete!)

As for your other iris, I don't know the answer, but I like to experiment so I would probably go ahead and move a few just to see what happens. Let us know what you decide.

bobryd - I wish I knew the answer about Louisiana irises since I have many to move. My guess is that, like many other blooming plants, they'd be best transplanted after bloom.

Just as shune said, if you have the wide gray-green leaved tall bearded irises (or even the shorter bearded irises), that you did plant them too deeply. The top of the tubers should be slightly above ground. IF you move them now try and take a good clump of soil with them and don't plant them in an area that remains wet.

Carrie,

You really have a job on your hands girlfriend, LOL. Now is definitely not the time to do it, though. However the huge chunks you took out and put back in won't be harmed at all.

From your location, and the looks of the iris, they are siberians.

When they get new growth of about 4" in the spring will be a good time to divide. You want to dig up the whole clump, and divide it down into about 3-5 fan divisions. you're going to get a LOT of divisions.

Now here's the real pain. Siberian irises that overgrown will be growing on top of each other. And you're going to want to get the bottom, old, dead rhizomes off. After you do that, take off the small feeder roots. You'll know the difference, you'll see fat white roots, and then hairy ones. The hairy ones won't do any good, and more will regrow anyway.

It's going to take some muscle to pull the old rhizomes off, and divide them into divisions.

Here's what a divisions should look like. This size planted back in the ground in early spring may give you flowers the first year, if not, definitely the second.

If you have any questions in the spring, feel free to contact me at siberianirisgardens@live.com I'm always happy to help.

Polly

Another pic of what you want to replant. With those clumps you should be able to do your whole backyard, if not the neighborhood.

And don't worry, you won't kill them. Siberians are very tough plants.

Can't beat an offer like that.

Offer goes to anyone. I'd be glad to help. I know little about bearded irises, though, and even less about Lousianas, but sibs, Japanese and other beardless, ask away.

I really want to see how many divisions Carrie gets. I think we will see her on the marketplace here, selling iris divisions. Maybe ebay. Tons of fun!

Bobyrd, this may be of use to you in caring for your LA irises.

http://www.louisianairis.com/louisiana.native.iris.htm

themoonhowl,

Thanks that is great information.

Bonnie

Too welcome Bonnie. They should do as well in Conroe as they do in La. Grin

I should think so! :o)

That link was very helpful, themoonhowl. Thanks.

A friend in Arkansas who grows them said to divide after bloom only if you don't want the increases. Otherwise divide in fall. Mine will be relocated next fall.

You are welcome Pirl. Those are lovely blooms.

Thanks. They've really expanded here and grow so beautifully for me.

When I read the link and saw they can expand by 21 times in a season it created visions of not having any lawn! That probably happens more in your zone than up here.

When La irises get happy, they get happy all over the place. Grin This pic is from a Dallas Texas garden

http://www.irises-dallas.org/photos_la.htm

They sure are beautiful. They are marginally hardy here, some years we get bloom, some we don't. The foliage grows well, they just don't bloom. But when they do, they're gorgeous!

Seems like there is a lot of breeding going on with the Louisianas.

Yeah, they are still relatively new (haven't been around a buh-zillion years) and range from pure white to practically black (LA Gamecock). Leaves a lot of room for experimentation.

I doubt I'll ever amass that many irises but they are lovely to view. Ours do very well, blooming every year for us, and this Cajun Sunrise is glorious.

Polly! Thank you so so much! And sorry for belated thanks, I've been immersed in work and far from my gardening hat...this is so helpful, I really appreciate it. I know it's going to be a huuuge bear of a job, but I kinda can't wait! I will grateful to have you to consult come spring. I'm not entirely sure how to picture the dead rhizomes I need to remove, but am guessing I'll know em when I see em. And I'm very glad to hear they are tough, and that my hasty chunks should be okay.

Do people really sell divisions here? I'll have to look. I'd be happy to give them away so they live on...

cheers!

Carrie