Seed starting, for tomato plants. Is peat bad?

When I was a kid I used to have a lot of success starting tomatoes and Cardinal vines indoors. I used to just use soil from our compost pile and plant in cups or any type of container on my window sill.

Now I don't have a windowsill and am more cramped for space so I've decided to try commercial seed starters. I picked up a Jiffy tomato greenhouse that uses peat pellets. I've planted most of my seeds two days ago. I've already got some Cardinal vine and basil sprouts. However I am somewhat discouraged because like a fool I read the directions of my seeds after I bought the commercial seed starter. The directions recommended not using peat to start tomato seeds.

So I was wondering if any of you have used peat to start tomato seeds? If so what was your results?

If you recommend staying away from peat then what type of soil would you recommend or starting seeds?

I think I still have time to start over if this becomes a disaster.

I can't believe all the dumb luck I had as a kid. I did a lot of things wrong yet I almost always had excellent results. Our compost pile had a lot of wild plant waste and probably should've been full of diseases; yet it seemed I hardly had any problems with diseased tomato plants. For the past few years I've used commercial compost that has been sterilized and supposedly a lot of precautions have been done to prevent disease, yet my plants seem to keep on getting diseases.

My parents even used to chain-smoke and the compost pile had a fair amount of cigarette butts, so did the garden; yet my tomato plants never seem to suffer any ill effects.

If you have already planted your seeds, just see what happens. I normally use a seed starting mix and put it in plastic trays.

The tomatoes take a lot longer to sprout than basil ( don't know about cardinal vine) It will also depend on what temperature the room is and if you are using a heat mat, which speeds things up quite a bit. It may take them up to 12 days or so to sprout. Prop open the lid as soon as you see the first sprout, maybe even before that.

The lack of a sunny window may be a problem unless you are growing under lights. Many people use shop lights- I bought lights from Gardeners Supply.
If you don't have enough light, your plants will be weak and spindly.

I’m using an incandescent heat lamp for light and heat. I’m poor so I’ve turned off my central heating since the weather is above freezing, and even when the weather gets below freezing I set my thermostat at 47° for most of the day. That’s why I’m using a heat lamp in the bathroom. The bathroom is the warmest room in the house in the cold season and takes the least heat to warm up, and the extra heat from the heat lamp might help prevent my pipes from freezing. I have the heat lamp on a timer so it comes on about 2AM and turns off about 10 AM when the House is at its coldest, the heat lamp has kept my seed tray between 60° and 85° F. I have the heat lamp set up so I can adjust the distance to the seedlings; so by adjusting the distance I’m shooting for a target temperature between 70° and 80° F ( of a simulated daytime temperature, though it actually be nighttime).

I am trying to start a vast array of types of seeds in this little jiffy seed starter greenhouse. If this ends up being a failure I figure I still have enough time to take another shot. I figure if my second shot fails that I can still resort to the more expensive route of purchasing started plants from my local garden center.

A few of the plants I am starting are merely decorative, but most have some practical purpose. I’m planting the cardinal vines to attract hummingbirds and pollinators. I’m planting an array of herbs many of which are supposed to have some insect repellent attributes that will hopefully complement the tomatoes and reduce the number of insects that enter my open doors and windows. I’m hoping that this will reduce the amount of insecticides I have to use.

I would like to try to find some Salvia coccinea to attract hummingbirds, I have had no luck finding any yet. Regretfully there has been a fad of using Salvia divinorum as a hallucinogen, it seems that the fascist bureaucratic state lawmakers in my area may have outlawed all forms of Salvia.

1) I’m angry at abusers for abusing the herb.

2) I’m angry at the state lawmakers for making people that have legitimate uses for the herb suffer bureaucratic fascist restrictions.

3) I am doubly angry at the lawmakers and the industry apparently making other related herbs that as near as I know don’t have any hallucinogenic qualities be restricted or harder to get in my state.

I’m trying a vast array of tomato plants to try to find out which ones has taste I prefer, and which ones do best in my location and under my particular circumstances, and so that I will hopefully have a broad array of disease and weather resistance. I’m hoping that even if some plants die or flounder that some will hopefully flourish.

Tomato
Rutgers (American seed)
Large red cherry (American seed)
Supersweet 100 hybrid (Burpee)
Everlast (Burpee)
Early and often hybrid (Burpee)
Right bite hybrid (Burpee)
Tasty treat (Burpee)
Sweetie (Ferry-Morse)
Tiny Tim (Livingston seed company)
Early girl hybrid (Livingston seed company)
Gardeners delight (Livingston seed company)
Sweet snack hybrid (Burpee)

Tomato seeds on order.
Sweet Million
Sugar Snack
Suncherry
Amish Salad
Matt's Wild Cherry Tomato
Super Suncherry Tomato


Flowers
Cyprus vine (Burpee)
Cardinal climber ( Livingston’s seed company)
DNS Cardinal (My reseed and cultivation)
Nasturtium Empress of India (Livingston seed company)
Nasturtium (Ferry-Morse)
Impatiens (Ferry-Morse)
Marigold (reseed)

Herbs
Basil, lemon (Livingston seed company)
Basil, compact (Livingston seed company)
Borage (Livingston seed company)
Savory (Livingston seed company)
True lavender (lavender Augustifolia/Lavanda Verdadera) (Burpee)
Common Thyme (Thymus Vugaris/Tomillo Limonero)(Burpee)
Rosemary (Romero) (Burpee)

I use peat pellets to start everything, including tomatoes. I have 4000+ seedlings and they are all started in peat. I've never heard that tomatoes shouldn't be started in peat. Sometimes it takes more then a week for them to sprout, but then they grow really fast. Be patient, they will sprout.

The only time I used a peat product before was the peat seed starter pots. A few of them became moldy, so I threw them out, after I planted the vast majority that looked healthy; the next day a groundhog dug up all of the freshly transplanted juvenile plants and nibbled on the peat and the juvenile plants. I never had a problem with a groundhog before that or since then; I can't help but wonder if perhaps the groundhog was attracted by the peat moss pots. It was probably just a coincidence; but in any case I decided not to use the jiffy moss pots again.

It's this quote below that gave me some flashbacks about the mold/fungus problems that I had with the peat pots before. I didn't read this until after I had bought the jiffy peat pellet greenhouse



Source and full directions.
http://www.reimerseeds.com/Seed-Planting/Tomato-Seeds/Tomato-Germination.aspx

Thanks for your comment about your positive experiences using the peat pellets. Your comment has given me hope. I was considering throwing out all of the peat plugs and going by some other means.

I don't like peat pots but love the peat pellets never had a problem with fungus.

I agree with Lisa, I've used peat pellets to start tomatoes for several years. They've worked well for me. It may be "better" to use starting mix, but pellets have been good enough for me.

David

I like the pellets because I don't have to handle the plant very much. I usually put 2-3 seeds in each one then gently pull them apart to pot up. Super easy and fast next year I may try coir pellets.

Ignoramus, is there any reason you are choosing so many hybrid tomatoes? It's your choice, of course, but I wondered if there's a particular method you're using that works better with them. I would have guessed that you're going to be canning so want them ripening together, but probably not with so many cherries.
Just curious, After several years I look at my selection and find that I have more tomatoes that are black, purple, green gold and yellow than red, but then, I've always been a bit off.....*G*

Actually I am just looking for diversity of disease-resistant tomatoes to see which do the best in the conditions of my postage stamp trailer park garden.

My garden is very small, probably about the size of a parking space, it only gets a few hours of sun, I’m growing in 4 gallon pots in dense conditions that would be easy for diseases to take a toll.

A lot of people in the neighborhood smoke and litter their cigarette butts so I suspect that my tomatoes are at risk for the tobacco virus.

Were not allowed to use garden hoses (trailer park rule), so I have to water with buckets by hand which is hard on my back and so I can’t water enough to flush away any stagnant water. So it’s hard to get sufficient water and good drainage; which can increase the vulnerability of viruses and bacteria. Heat stress and other factors I feel make the plants more susceptible to disease than a more typical conventional garden.

I really like cherry tomatoes.
Sweet Million (Sounds like it would be one of the best for me).
I’m also very interested in the Sweet Chelsea, but so far I haven’t been able to find any in my area and probably don’t have any room for it anyway this year.

I have a sweet tooth and really love the sweet cherry tomatoes. I eat them like a kid binging on candy. It’s amazing how tomatoes off the same plant can taste so different. Each cherry tomato I eat is a surprise, because the taste is not predictable, some are somewhat tart and some are extremely sweet. I love the pressure that builds up in the cherry tomatoes, they practically explode when you bite into fresh cherry tomatoes. I like the texture also.

I could probably buy cherry tomatoes cheaper than what I spend to raise my own. However I find fresh cherry tomatoes that I grow myself and eat the same day to be vastly superior than what I get in a supermarket or at a farmers market or a roadside vegetable stand. I think fresh off the vine tomatoes have superior taste, better texture, and have more of that explosive squirt when you bite into them.

Kids love the sweet cherry tomatoes also. The kids like to pretend that they are monsters and they are eating the villagers (the cherry tomatoes being the villagers).

I don’t get enough tomatoes to make it worth canning. I almost always have extra tomatoes, and I find no shortage of people eager to take any extras.

I really don’t have the space or the know-how to do caning anyway.

I did my best to try to understand and follow the directions by the seed company but I am somewhat confused and dumbfounded. The seed company seems to object to jiffy peat pots, plugs, and potting soil. So I bought some of the miracle grow seed starting soil that they recommended and it also largely consists of peat. So evidently the objection isn’t to peat itself, is apparently something unique to those other peat products. The contents and the consistency of the jiffy peat plugs, and the miracle grow soil seem to be very similar; so I really don’t understand what the big difference would be.

I kept the jiffy peat plug seed tray that I have started and it’s starting to get some sprouts popping up. I’ve also started a second, and third batch in the miracle grow seed starting soil. I will compare the results from the two methods. However it may not be a fair comparison because I might have been a little sloppy in planting the seeds into the jiffy peat plugs; I’m suspicious I may have put the seeds a little too deep.

Lots of ways to skin this cat.

We seed everything in plain peat. A 2 cu ft package last us about two years, more economical in bulk. We 3/4 fill a container (an old cooking pot) with dry peat, mix in enough water to get it soppy wet, lightly pack the wet peat into the seeding container, lay seeds on top, then sprinkle enough dry peat to cover the seed as deep as needed. A little for small seeds, more for large seeds. We keep the peat moist until the seeds sprout by adding jest a tech of water as necessary. An alternative way to keep it moist is to stretch clear film over the container.

We pot up the seedlings into the same stuff.

It's been an effective method.

Good luck,

Frank

1lisac - I tried some coir pellets this year, but they do not have the netting like the peat pellets, so when you add the water they are all over the place. You are right about the peat pellets, they are easier to handle after the seeds start. With the coir, just the little seedling and roots come out as it is so loose in there. That being said, I did see that Boca Bob has what he calls mesh pots which would certainly work better. Only thing, from what I gathered, is you have to pack the wet coir into the mesh pot (or is it a bag) yourself. I found they both work well for the seeds that make it. However, I do not get 50% of my seed pellets/pots that germinate and make it. LOL!

Most if not all potting and seed starting mixes are peat based, so it shouldn't make much difference.

One thing I have been doing is sterilizing whatever mix I'm using to start seeds. I do it in my microwave oven. It dramatically reduces problems with fungus and gnats. The mix must be well moistened first and carefully watched to avoid bad stuff happening (it can catch on fire without proper preparation!). There is plenty of info here at DG about microwave sterilizing.

Don't know how or whether it would work to sterilize peat pots this way.

Hi Folks,

I'm new to DG (and quite new to gardening too)... I've been reading a ton of forums here though.

On the topic of tomatoes: I just planted my tomato seeds on Saturday, and now I have seedlings about an inch tall! I started them in jiffy peat pots, with seed starting mix. I've read a few times that you should bury the plants to make stronger roots, so I've left room in the pots to add more soil. But when do I do this? Is it safe to add soil now, with just the cotyledons starting?

Iorvan - When you plant your tomatoes in the soil where they will grow up, that is the time to bury them deep. Remove any leaves that are far down the the trunk and bury it. I know the packaging says the plant can be planted while in the peat pot, but my and others I have read about on DG have found that the pots do not break down and the root become confined.

Thanks for the clarification, quiltygirl! I wonder if I make cuts in the peat pot would that help, or remove the plant completely from it...

lorvan - make sure the peat pot is peeled away from the top especially. If any of it is exposed above ground it will wick moisture away from the roots of the plant. I never completely remove the peat pots, but I do wet it well before planting and then peel away parts of it, especially the bottom. You have to be careful not to damage the roots that may have already grown through the peat pot.

Tomato seedlings are very tolerant of root damage while being de-potted, and will quickly recover..

Yes they will, especially since you can plant the stem really deep for stronger root systems;o)

Ig-it sounds to me like corp. nonsense. The seeds were probably from the same conglomerate that sells miracle grow. The peat pelts are fine. I never read the instructions that closely.
GG- thanks for the info on the coir. I guess I'm destine to deplete the peat bogs.
Lisa

My opinion is that peat pellets aren't necessarily bad, but that there are other products that are better. Peat pellets have almost no nutritive value ... but there's always enough energy in the seed to support germination ... you can even germinate seeds on a moist paper towell, as some seed companies do when checking seed lots for germination rates. Nevertheless, there's a really interesting article on peat moss on a web site called thegardenofoz.org ... see "the Perils of Peat."

Lisa, here is the website for the coir seed starting kit WITH the net pots. Looks like the price is not too different from the peat kits. I would like to try this next year. Maybe even late summer to start winter veggies in the house to plant outside when it cools down. Boca Bob, whose website this is, isa DG member and that is where I read about the coir first.

http://shop.instagarden.com/product.sc?productId=7&categoryId=11

Thanks for all the advice and all the opinions.


I tried sprouting seeds in the jiffy peat pellets, and in the seed starting soil that the seed manufacture recommended, and another group of using soil from another manufacturer; the germination rate and the growth rate seemed essentially the same. The germination rate and the growth rate seem to be equal no matter whether it was peat pellets, seed starting soil in plastic pots, or seed starting soil in peat pots.

I’m getting the idea that perhaps the seed manufacturer was just making up excuses as a plausible deniability; if their seeds failed to germinate. (or perhaps as someone else suggested, the seed company had some sort of vested interest in the seed starting soil that they were recommending).

I started this topic thinking about germination rates; and have found that the germination rates were nearly identical; however I found that I prefer growing in plastic pots because there seems to be less of a problem with that white hairy mildew or mold or whatever it is; that seemed to grow a little in the peat pellets and was very hard to prevent in the peat pots. I tried using hydrogen peroxide like some forum members recommended and it did seem to help but I was shy on the quantities because I was afraid I might use too much.

Another thing I was surprised to discover is that almost a month and a half later I’m still having seedlings popping up. I’ve always just planted seeds in the ground and have never paid any close attention to how many germinated and when. I was expecting some seeds not to germinate, so I did what the manufacturer recommended and planted about three seeds per unit. The seeds looked quite different in size and shape and color; I thought that many of them were deformed and may not be seeds at all so I planted them anyway but did not count them when I was dividing them up into units, so as a result I have some units that have up to six sprouts. Surprisingly as near as I can tell nearly every seeds that I planted sprouted, though surprisingly many of the seeds didn’t sprout till well over a month later. I have learned quite a bit by this little experiment, though it’s not quite what I expected to learn.

If I start seeds again next year I think I may try disposable plastic cups like I think one of the other forum members was suggesting in another thread. If I start seeds again next year I think I may use composted manure for some groups to see if it works better.

My seedlings are stringy ( tall and skinny and light-colored) I think that may be because I’m probably considerably dark/weak) on the amount of idealistic light and because it was fairly cold in my house for much of the time.

BTW Do I understand correctly that when hydrogen peroxide is exposed to the elements that it has a tendency to quickly break down into water? If this is true does anyone have an estimate on what the typical breakdown time would be when used on seedlings pots/pellets; a matter of days, or weeks?