WS 2011 changes

I haven't tried the half gallon jugs but have used a lot of two liters. It seems like the half gallon would be easier to cut. I, too, buy the distilled water for my plants. I would much rather spend $1 on the water jugs than to clean out the milk jugs. LoL Do you think you will WS as much as last/past years or more? I'm thinking it will be less but I'm already twitching to get started. LoL

I don't think I will do as many perennials (just running out of space), but I really liked starting my annuals outdoors rather than under lights. I started them around April 1, and they did beautifully. I will definitely do more of that!

Isn't it fun to be able to play in the dirt in January when everything is snowy, cold and gloomy? I do start lots of tender plants under grow lights, but I get these started even earlier. What a fun winter project. I'm definitely hooked on this.

Oh yes, Mom, I'm hooked as well. It's funny that some friends started seeds under lights inside and nursed them with little or no plants to show for all of their work. I started a gazillion jugs outside, everything that germinated lived. But when I was telling them about WSing they ALL looked at me as if I was nuts. Now that my gardens are in my friend wants to bring people over to show them my gardens. She couldn't see my vision until things began to sprout. LoL

i do lights ,and have great luck,and Iam hooked.I start up in late feb so I have blooming peatunias in may, and other annuals & perennials.

Hugger,

You start tender annuals in February?

Well Iam this year certain ones , I usually start 2nd week of march,iam going to start my peatunias and panseys and violas in mid feb this year,and coleus,

Are you WSing these annuals? I wanted to try WSing annuals but I was worried about the freezing weather. Do you pull them in once the tempurature drops below freezing?

I grow inside under lights ,starting in Mid Feb.Sorry I thought you had caught that I use lights.

Anita,

You can WS annuals, just start them a bit later.

you and I are the same zone, i think i do mine March/April.

They will not be blooming in June -- but the ones i've always done, have done well.

Only tried Petunias once, no germination.

I usually do Marigolds, Zinnias, Cosmos and a few others.

they will keel over if they germinate then you get a freeze again. my first year WS'ing, i did annuals the same time as perennials -- we had a warm February and i had a lot of annuals germinate .... some died, and some I dragged into the house or garage and some i just covered out on the front porch. The ones that were protected did great.

Hi, everybody,

Have been lurking and pretty quiet recently but just read thru this 'Wintersowing' thread. I agree that reading thru the Sticky threads at the Forum top will clear up lots of questions and save a lot of grief.

A couple of thoughts on changes I've made (after six years of WSing in zone 6a Ohio climate):

Just wanted to agree with tcs about the annuals and tomatoes too: I DON'T sow them too early. Had to learn the hard way that seeds generally won't germinate until soil and ambient temps get to a certain warmth (around 70 degrees usually) and if the seeds are just sitting there in the cold containers there's a good chance the seed will rot. Or they will germinate early and then a freeze will kill the seedlings off.

One point about the steel shelving and wintersowing~~part of the charm of wintersowing for me is relying on Mother Nature's spring rains to do the watering of the jugs . If milk jugs are stacked up on shelves I wonder how much rain will get to them? Same issue with keeping seeds on the covered porch.

About the 'cold frames': I like cold frames, too, but generally most WS ing purists don't consider using them 'wintersowing', in the sense used on this thread, because they don't typically allow for Mother Nature to provide the moisture (unless you poke holes in the roof/top). They are another great way to start seeds and plants though and I love 'em. There could be a whole other forum discussing Cold Frames and Cloches and other ways to lengthen the growing season. The Propagation Forum has some good threads on building and using coldframes too. I found out a lot of good stuff about how to start difficult seeds on the Propagation Forum too.

About 'direct sowing' into the garden kale, cabbage and cool season crops: The seed packets often instruct them to be sown this way but WSers often like to do them in containers to protect the seeds and seedlings from the rabbits and other critters. Likewise WSing solves protection issues for zinnias and sunflowers and other seeds often times instructed to be 'direct sown' into the garden according to the seed packets.

Use of the 'big flat underbed' plastic containers: I have filled them with planting mix and sowed the seeds straight into them in the past and they are fine if you can keep your various seed varieties within them ID-ed thru the winter and spring but the depth is rather shallow for when the seedlings pop up and you still want them to be lidded for some protection. I also ran into issues because come spring time certain seeds were germinated and tall seedlings ready to plant out and others hadn't germinated yet so I the un-germinated seeds were left in the large (mostly empty) container. Got to be a little messy. So then I switched to planting in plastic cups and keeping them in the plastic containers and that worked a little better but tried to stick with the deeper Sterlite containers (available from Big Lots and Home Depot).

Reading thru the thread it occurred to me that a lot of Wintersowing success depends on how Mother Nature behaves in your garden. WSing in Houston is not at all the same as WSing in Cincinnati so adjustments need to be made for winds, rain, bright sun, growing seasons, etc. It took me a few years to get the WSing intricacies of my particular location down.

I love wintersowing too~~what a relief to have most of the seed starting outside~~and one winter I didn't do it and I sorely missed the fun of trying to grow rare and fussy seeds and getting darn good results and joining in the chat on this forum. Like others, I highly recommend trying it!

I'd love to read more tips and tricks from others here. Always something new to learn about seed sowing....t.

Pic of seedlings in Sterlite Containers from Big Lots:

This message was edited Oct 4, 2010 9:06 AM

thank you ladies for doing a much better job at explaining the whole thing ,Ive learned as well thank you again.you are so right about mother nature!!! Iam going to do a bit of wsing this spring outside !!! I love setting up my lights too !!! Iam glad you mentioned soil temps,didnt know the 70 ,ahh good info..=} Tamara

This will be my third year Winter Sowing and I have varying success the last two years. I have sown annuals, perennial & veg's in milk jugs and various other recycled containers.

I've decided 3 things for next year: 1). I'm going to try to only use the sturdy, square-ish 1/2 gallon jugs that my cranberry juice comes in because I can cut them open on three sides and they will still stay closed by themselves (no hassling with tape, or slots, or twisty ties).

2). I will continue to put my containers in my old laundry baskets with the holes drilled in the bottoms. This works so well because it's easy to move everything if I need to, the jugs stay closed and they won't blow away.

3). I'm only going to do veg's & annuals, and not too many. I was so lazy this year never got around to planting some of my WS perennials (still plan to though, probably, maybe).

When to sow is still a little tricky for me, but probably sometime in late February / early March.

Hey t -- good to see you again.

tabasco is one of the ones that i learned a lot from in my early yrs of Ws'ing.

Tabasco, your lurking is fine .... but please jump in from time to time to offer advice .... we want to learn from your exoeriences.

I will be a first timer at winter sowing ..... and I have begun preparing .... my grandson is not so thrilled with all the winter sowing materials now resting in my detached 2 car garage ..... He is 21 and lives with me.

I should have enough pine bark mulch, peat moss, perlite, and osmocote to mix all the potting medium I will need.

I have been raiding neighbors recycling bins for planting jugs .... purchased 1/2 dozen sterlite containers from Big Lots ... and harvesting seeds.

Major question is when is the best time to do the winter sowing for different seeds?

I would be most grateful for your input and suggestions.

MARY

Mary -- from what i've read, you can start at "winter solstice" but who has time with the Holidays?? so most of us do this in the dead of winter, when there is nothing else to do.
I've started as early as Mid-Jan to Mid-Feb.

The year I did not start until early March --- many seeds did not do too well.

You can start annuals when you're pretty sure you wont have a 'hard frost' again.
I think last year i did my annuals at the end of March. though you are in a warmer zone than I am.

But getting 'rolling' in Jan/Feb is a good time frame.

Keep one thing in mind... Don't make this more difficult than it needs to be. It's really a simple process. The first year, you get all worried about timing, soil, wetness, how much sun [too muc, too little] .... try not to fret over too many details.

when you look at "mother nature" .... seeds fall off the plants in the Fall, sit on the ground, maybe get covered a bit... go thru a 'frozen winter' and germinate when the soil heats up enough. We're pretty much doing the same thing... but we put the seeds in a 'container' so the birds cant eat the seeds, heavy rains/melting snow can't wash them away, or blown away in high winds..... put them in your contain with about 4" of potting mixture [wet material, before or after adding seeds] seal container, put outside. Start peeking for germination once the 'weather breaks'.

Terese

I would like to know what a "hard frost" or "light frost"?

Grrrr .... I just lost my post!

Diamond,
In a quick nutshell, I BELIEVE a hard freeze usually means dipping down below 30 degrees for a SUSTAINED PERIOD OF TIME. Which means anything in its wake will freeze harder than an ice cube.

Light freeze, means it can dip for a very short period of time (a coupla hours or so) below freezing, but still have time for the sun to help with thawing, so whatever gets hit won't necessarily freeze hard as a rock.

I've kept cabbages, broccoli & greens out in a light freeze with sheets thrown over them, and they were fine, because of the short timeframe. I watered all of them beforehand, cause it takes longer for water to freeze.

I'm sure others will jump in and correct any inaccuracies I've posted here. Feel free!

Linda

I also find... a 'light frost' may just wild my annuals, and a "hard frost" or killing frost, will do just that; kill the plants. Impatiens for instance will turn to mush with a hard frost, where a light frost will make them look really sad and wilty.

we have had light frosts within our Park, up here is south-central Wisc ... open areas had light coating - but in the interior of the Park, where I am, we were not effected yet.

OH -- hard frost kills mosquitoes -- as i sit in the yard being buzzed by the dang things.

I think the word you wanted was "wilt my annuals..." It took me a minute to decipher!

Here is my 2nd attempt for my previous post.

I am not considering doing any winter sowing soon .... the earliest would probably be the middle of January.

I just want to acquire the bulk of my winter sowing needs while the weather is nice and the getting is good.

I am quite pleased that I took advantage of purchasing the pine bark mulch when I did ..... 2 cubic ft bags at 5 bags/$10.00 at my favorite local garden center .... they are now sold out and will not replenish until spring.

Mary

Mary, could you post the name of the pine bark mulch you purchased? Is it for beds or are you doing Tapla's container mix?

Here's why I Winter Sow:

I've never had much success starting tomatoes and the like from seed indoors (I don't really have space for the light setup I would need, and my plants were always puny). Outdoors they get all the light they need naturally, even if it's cold. And as far as the seeds of those tender plants being out there early - they just aren't going to germinate when it's too cold.

An example: I have a huge, loaded tomatillo plant in my garden right now that I didn't plant. It sowed itself from a seed dropped by last year's tomatillo plant. The seed (and actually there were more that came up that I didn't keep) sat out in the cold all winter & sprouted when it was ready. That's nature's automatic "winter sowing", and all we are doing is just getting some control over that process.

So although I bought my plants late this Spring, and wasn't able to find a tomatillo plant, I have all the tomatillos I want now. Next year I will Winter Sow them on purpose.

The pine bark mulch I purchase is ProGarden. I intend to screen out the larger pieces for my winter sowing mix (5, 1, 1). uplanto reserve the larger pieces for mulch around shrubs.

I now know who to pester about winter sowing .... Critter is a regular of the Mid-Atlantic forum .... and I now understand why she had so many plants to share with others at their swap meet.

MARY

Oh yes... Critter is one of the 'good ones' to ask questions. She's written some great articles.

When would be a good time to start columbine seeds? Would February be alright?

Mom,

Last year I started mine in December and January.

check out this thread for a wintersowing vessel possibility. It is totally wicked!

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1067922/

GGirl, that has me thinking about all kinds of posibilities and variations. Thanks for the lead.

PNWMountainGirl,

I could have enough seedlings for my entire growing season from just one tray! And then do all the tomato seedlings in another, taller one for my co-workers and BFFs. And do all the flower seedlings in another. I love that each seedling would be in it's own individual tube. So much easier than the Chia Pet, and more attractive than my beloved Starbuck's milk jugs!

I'd modify a tomato tray by using a 3" diam. pipe, cut between 4-6" tall. I'd plant the seedlings deep and add more potting mix as it grew up for a deep root system. I've learned that tomatoes do well when their roots fill the starter pot, so hopefully they'd have extended systems by the time I push them through and pot up ONCE, directly into the garden.

Yeah.

OH NO !!!!! All we need is a new idea! Now what to do with all the milk jugs I have collected-- :-) The pvc sounds so good- not all that different than toilet paper tubes, and they are biodegradable. The brain is whirring!

That's a lot of toilet paper!

I knew there was some rhyme or reason for saving toilet paper tubes.

Mary

LOL!!!!

it really is a good idea. I just cannot imagine how long I would have to save my rolls to have enough to WS. I have to ask neighbors and friends to borrow theirs. LoL

All kidding aside, I don't think the paper TP tubes will hold up under the damp soil, and would collapse before you're ready to plant out...better to use the PVC TP tubes....

don't worry, it'll come to you in a minute....

LoL @Gymgirl!

I guess you're right, Gymgirl- it's a cool thought, tho!
So, are you thinking of pvc in place of milk jugs, or will you test it first? Since I haven't even done WS yet, I get excited with every new idea! Maybe pvc inside milk jugs???