WS 2011 changes

Thanks for this thread.

I retired in May. I will be attemping my first winter sowing this year. Lots of good ideas have been shared.

I am presently exploring techniques and options to use.

Mary

Merrymath, wintersowing is a lot of fun, and sharing your experiences is part of it. We all look forward to hearing how it's going. Only a few more months till it gets cold enough to start!
Are you saving those milk jugs? ;-)

I've been winter sowing for at least six years. This has been a very trying growing season this year. We had three weeks of no rain. A week of over one hundred degree temperatures. Some things fried because I didn't get them planted fast enough. I had some jugs with no germination so I sat them aside. The other evening I decided to empty them into my wheelbarrow. My clay soil needs all the help it can get. I found a live plant or two in a few of them. I couldn't believe what I found in jug I had planted blackberry lily seeds. Never give up. lol.

Don

Well, my neighbors are gonna be a talking about me I think.

This will be my first stab at WS .... and I do not go through a whole lot of milk. I only have about 2 half gallon empty jugs on hand.

Now ....Mondays is when folks put out there recyclable out on my block. Guess I just a gonna have to rise early on Monday and tour the neighborhood with a large trash bag.

Now when those peeps around here have stopped a chuckling over that .... they'll start a gossiping about the leaves I convascated before the leaf retrival truck makes its round.

I recently purchased an electric leaf shredder ..... and I'ma planning on having heaps of fine shredded leaves for nestling of plants

Now about how many of those jugs would you suggest is sufficient? I don't want to be too greedy.

And when does one in my hardiness zone actually start WS and for what.

I just adored that door opening in the jug of the previous post.

Oh Merrymath, there are NEVER enough jugs/containers if you become truly obsessed with wintersowing. It depends on how many different plants you want to sow with this method. Most of us go overboard and plant more than we ever imagined we would, because it's so fun and gives us something to anticipate during those cooold months of winter and early spring. I pretty much choose some plants I want to wintersow and allot one gallon jug for each type of seeds, except when I spread them out into TWO jugs, or more 'cause I have LOTS of seeds. . . and so it goes. This last winter I planted about 80 jugs of various sizes. . . it's easy to go overboard.
We don't drink a lot of milk in our household either, but I find so many jugs at the recycling center that I can't believe it.
As to when you start wintersowing in your hardiness zone. . . which is not that different from mine (7a). . . t only sort of matters. I sow my WS containers in February and March. Others do it earlier. Some folks swear by the winter solstice. Check out the requirements for the seeds you are sowing. Those hardy perennials that like a good long period of stratification can go in early in the new year. Those half-hardy perennials or annuals go in later in the early spring, when they won't be subjected to prolonged periods of alternating freezes and thaws.
Here I am talking like I'm an expert, and I'm not. A lot of info can be found on the Wintersowing threads. What I like about wintersowing is that it's not an exact science, and every year is a rewarding experiment.

I started WS for the first time last year, and it was so successful. However, what I was even more excited about was doing a later WS planting of annuals. It saved me all of that space that I would have needed under grow lights. Can't wait to try this again this year--starting to formulate my plans on what to WS early and later (annuals).

I started with about 24 jugs last year. 12 were WS plants and 12 were later-sown annuals. Almost all did really well. Had a few failures, but I think it was due to the poor seed source more than any other factor. This year, I will use more 1/2 gallon jugs, as I don't need lots of any one plant in my small space. I've also started saving jugs early this year. I used a Sharpie on the outside of my jugs (generally just wrote on the duct tape closing the jugs), and put a plastic plant label (also with Sharpie) inside each jug. The writing never faded, so had no problems identifying plants.

I also really like that it is a pleasant garden task while nothing else can be done in our zone. How rewarding to plant seeds in milk jugs in January when its below freezing and a foot of snow on the ground. Gives me my gardening "fix" to get me through till it's time to start seeds indoors.

Capecod .... the reviewing of old threads can drive a person loco .... seems like a chit chat gets going and conversations often go off topic. I have done some reviewing of WS past threads to realize my best bet is to start here.

I want to be well prepared when the time comes to WS .... I realize I will probably make mistakes .... hopefully not too many because I will be relying on input from other WS gardners.

All mistakes are learning opportunities.

I shall probably be asking a lot of questions..... all input is welcome ... esp off the wall suggestions.

Question .... when is the best time to purchase the potting soil I will need?

Merry--I don't think there is a right or wrong time to buy potting soil (you might want to consider a soilless potting "mix" though for germinating seed). I would recommend purchasing when it is readily available.

In our zone, potting mixes and soils are kept outdoors in garden centers, so if we purchase it in January for WS, it is a frozen-solid block. I like to purchase mine in advance (in Sept./Oct.) and store it where it won't freeze and will be ready for my WS.

NEW QUESTION What is soiless potting mix .... and why the recommendation?

PS I intend to ask a lot of questions in the attempt to not make too many mistakes.

Mary

Soilless potting mix is a much lighter/looser texture than potting soil. If you read the content of a bag of seed starting mix or soilless potting mix, you will note that it contains only things like peat, bark fines, vermiculate, pearlite. There is no soil or dirt in it. Because it is a much lighter texture, it allows for much better root growth of new seedlings. Things like top soil tend to be way to heavy/dense for seed starting. You also want good drainage and good aeration for good root growth.

If you want to learn a lot more about soil texture, look for some threads by a very knowledgable member who goes by the screen name of Tapla. (I think there is a lot of good information in the Container gardening forum).

Keep asking questions--it's the only way to learn.

Mary -- Welcome to Winter Sowing.

I know we tend to chatter [get off course] in some threads... a few yrs ago, a few of us went thru yrs of threads and created the Sticky up top. there are a lot of great links and information in there... we weeded a lot of the chatter out of the "Lessons Learned" threads.

when you have a lot of free time this winter... give it a read.

years of great information.

I'm thinking this will be my 5th year.

and no question is a dumb question... we all were new at this once.

again -- welcome.

Terese

Oh I definitly like Terese ..... mainly because she included her name at the end .... an excellent way to get more comfortable with you.

I think it might be a good idea to create my own potting mix .... I found 3 recipes ..... which or what other one would you recommend

here are the 3 recipes

Basic Soilless Potting Mix
4-6 parts Sphagnum Peat Moss
1 part Perlite
1 part Vermiculite

Basic Mix with Compost
2 parts Compost
2-4 parts Sphagnum Peat Moss
1 part Perlite
1 part Vermiculite

Basic Mix with the Addition of Nutrients
Add ½ cup each per every 8 gallons of mix:
½ cup Bone Meal(Phosphorous)
½ cup Dolomitic Limestone (Raises soil pH and provides calcium and magnesium)
½ cup Blood Meal or Soybean Meal or Dried Kelp Powder (Nitrogen)

MARY

to me,,, that's a lot of work.

i have used Miracle Gro, i get it in HUGE bags at Sam's for about $12-14
sometimes i go thru 2-3 bags, depending on how much i sow.

some of us use our names, some never do... and some do sometimes -- though many of us know each others names just from over the years.

:-)

Mary, like other winter-sowers, I purchase my soiless potting mix in big bags, when it's on sale and definitely before the bags get frozen (something to think about if you store your potting mix ahead of time. Once in my innocence I left a giant bag inside my garage against an outside wall and it froze! Had to buy another smaller and more expensive bag that had been kept inside at Agways!)
In my case, I just purchase a good-quality potting mix: Fafard, MiracleGro, etc., (Memo to Self: start watching for sales) and I add a bit of slow-release Ozmacote-type fert if the mix doesn't already have it. Some folks add moisture-retaining granules as well at this time. I'm not really sure if any of these additions make much difference but I add the fert just in case! How's that for a scientific reason?
Therese is right; the "stickies" at the top of the WS forum are a great source of info. But we all love to discuss this subject, so feel free to ask as many questions as you wish!
I've been been enjoying this particular "winter sport" for four seasons, and my results have always surprised me--successes always outweigh the occasional "refuses to germinate" seed. Failures can usually be attributed to my using older seed, which I just try anyway because WS is cheap and easy!
--Emily

Emily .... why did you not bring the frozen bag of potting soil into the house and place in basement and wait for it to thaw?

I am thinking of purchasing regular potting soil and blending it with spagnum peat moss ... a 50/50 mixture ...... is that viable?

I found a thread that included some terrific gardening tips

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1125919/

Mary

This message was edited Aug 30, 2010 12:56 PM

Hi Mary--those high summer gardening tips were fun and interesting!

I don't know about mixing spagnum moss and regular potting "soil" (do you mean potting MIX which is soiless and safer to use when seed starting IMHO? --although a case could be made that Mother Nature starts ALL her seeds in plain old dirt!). I'll bet there are some more expert folks who might have an opinion. For me, a good, high-quality potting mix seems to have the best balance of lightness and moisture-retention.

Why didn't I do the logical money-saving thing and thaw my giant bag in the basement? Two answers: impatience and laziness! Well, that and a bad back! ;-) These traits that've gotten me into trouble in the garden more than once!

Anyway, keep those WS thoughts coming! And I'm assuming that you are familiar with the wintersown.org website, which has a wealth of information as well.

Emily .... what does IHMO refer to?

MARY

This message was edited Aug 31, 2010 1:35 PM

IMHO = "in my humble opinion..."

the following thread on potting soil/mixture is quite interesting

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1126228/#new

OK, y'all, let me hear your opinions- I will be a first time WS'r this year- been reading all about it and collecting milk jugs. I plan to do tomatoes and peppers for sure. But what about cabbage and bok choi- they seem pretty easy to direct sow early in spring- would I benefit by WS? I plan to get a big sterilite (I think it's 110 qt-or maybe 110 gallon?) and put my filled milk jugs in- Does it just stay covered out in the winter sun and cold? I am really excited to do this. I have a small garden area, so won't need hugs amounts. Oh, and I am going to but ProMix #1 at my local nursery. It's pricey- $54 for a 3.3cu ft compressed bale, but it will do a lot of growing. I'd appreciate all of your inputs-- Thanks-Jo

Jo, if you're doing milk jugs, you don't need to put them into a Sterilite container. The seeds will germinate inside the covered milk jugs (the split on three sides forms a lid...). If you're DSing into the Sterilite, that's another story. And, you could just drill holes in the bottom and the lid of the sterilite container, dump your Promix #1 and sprinkle your seeds -- no need for jugs then, either...

You'd have a HUGE seed tray with that 110 qt. container!

I purchased some deep wooden drawers (7"-10") for $1/ea at a garage sale. I'm going to drill holes in the bottoms, fill 'em with seed starting mix, and use them as WS seed trays...I'll probably stretch some plastic wrap over them, or put them inside some clear plastic bags for the "hot house" effect.

This is about to get exciting!

Jo: The milk jugs will just get covered with snow or whatever--that's how they stay watered, too. You don't need to cover them with anything else.

I will respectfully disagree with Gymgirl on one point--I found that it was helpful to put my jugs inside of a cardboard box, simply so they stayed in one place and didn't blow around during the winter. I know someone in our area who lost most of her wintersown plants when a big windgust tossed them about late in the season. I plan on keeping my jugs somewhat contained if at all possible to avoid this problem. However, the thought of using one big container to WS as a giant seedtray is intriguing. Will look forward to hearing results from someone that tries it.

Not sure about the cabbage or bok choy-- you might just get a jump on the season and sow them in very early spring. Don't know if the entire winter session is needed for these, but perhaps someone with more experience will weigh in. Last year was my first year WS, but now I"m hooked! Got my next door neighbor started, too.

Mom, you're absolutely correct about the windstorms there. I didn't take that into account
As they're pretty rare here.

Keep the posts coming- they are really interesting. I may get one big flat container(like the underbed ones) and try it along with milk jugs.Once winter sets in here in the PNW it seems to go on forever!

That's one of the things I love about WS, Jo. When I'm getting stircrazy in early January, I can play in the dirt and plant some WS jugs. And they miraculously sprout!!! Even after being buried under a foot of snow/ice! It's just too amazing. Do you get much snow in your area?

Be sure you mark your containers both inside and out with a good waterproof marker. I used a sharpie to write on the outside of my jugs (although I wrote on the duct tape that sealed them closed, in case I wanted to recycle any jugs). I also stuck a plastic label written in sharpie inside each jug as an extra precaution.

The one thing I did learn from last year is to not transplant my seedlings too early. We had a really warm spell in April (a month before our last frost date). Everything I planted out that early died from lack of water/excessive heat that early. I need to wait until I have my hoses out and water turned on to water outdoors. In retrospect, it would have been easier to keep them in their vented "greenhouses" and water everything in one spot with a watering can.

Jo--check out www.wintersown.org for more information. They also have seeds available (awesome selection of tomato seeds for a small donation).

Jo ~ $54.00!! Wow! I bought a 2.2 cu' of peat and a 2 cu' of vermiculite for a lot less money. Last year I went through all of that and more, after finishing the smaller bags of seed-starting mix from Lowe's, but did not use milk jugs. I just used the old plastic blueberry and strawberry containers and wrapped them in the grocery produce bags until my seeds germinated. I put these all on shelves on the back porch outside in the cold as well as used some indoors as well. They worked pretty well for my first time WS'ing. I will be doing that agian, unless DH finishes the potting shed with the coldframes...then who knows? I had better get my mess off the back porch...that is the deal anyway. Still, I will start a few things indoors as well for winter entertainment value. Some will be downstairs in the basement under lights and some in my room...(always a mess somewhere...)

~ Evelyn

I also use card board boxes... then when they get totally dilapidated - i put them in the garden sorta lasagna gardening like.

I just tore my cardboard boxes up (they were not very structurally sound at the end of the season) and threw them in my compost bin. The lasagna gardening idea is an awesome use for those boxes!

question ... what about winter sowing using a cold frame?

Mary

I think some folks have done/tried it.

if you have one, do both and check your results.

Some of you may like the info on this site .... at least I do

http://mrbrownthumb.blogspot.com/2009/01/paper-tube-seed-pot-holder.html

Mary

I think it was Gymgirl who talked about putting her milk jugs in big plastic containers. I also think she said I didn't really need to do that if I have a good place for the jugs. Please tell me if the 2 shelving units I will show you would be good. They will be in a West exposure and pretty sheltered. I plan to have around a dozen jugs.

I also have this one available (after I move the bags of soil I got on sale!)

JoParrott, I think they'll work as long as your jugs don't fall off or get blown off by the winter wind, snow, and/or storms. In my area on the Cape, I'd want to secure the shelves against the outside wall, and affix the jugs somehow onto the shelving itself--even though I keep them in a fenced area. You mention that your shelving will be in a sheltered spot, so maybe this isn't a concern for you.

Both of the shelf units are attached to a wall, and I can put some straps around the jugs. Will it be a problem that some of the jugs will be against a wall and have no light source on that side? They will all get light from above.I am excited to start this project- I never can wait for spring!

Well, for the first several weeks of winter the seeds will be simply resting in the jugs and waiting for spring temperatures to warm them up! They won't miss the light on one side. After they sprout, I think I'd want to turn them occasionally as the seedlings grow IF you leave them in their jugs for a while--which I usually do while waiting for the ground to warm up. This isn't generally until after June 1 in my climate and my seedlings are getting relatively tall (1-2 in.) by then. Plus, no matter how good my intentions are, it always takes me several weeks to get everything planted out! Many folks are able to plant their seedlings earlier in the spring while they're still quite small and wouldn't be so affected by only getting light on one side.

Are you all starting to collect jugs and boxes for WSing?

since i drink distilled water, and dont have my distiller with me, i've been buying it... i have about 20 gal jugs here in Wisc, which i will take home. have about 10 at home already.

We are not milk drinkers, but do get a few distilled water bottles I've saved. I've also been nabbing my mom's milk jugs out of the recycling bin. I think I've got about 8 gallon jugs and maybe a dozen 1/2 gallon jugs. I find the 1/2 gallon work fine for a lot of seeds for which I don't need tons of plants. I like to save the larger ones for my later annuals, which I do need quite a few of.

i too like the half gal jugs....