Landscaping fabric

We're thinking about using this stuff this year to keep our weeding to a minimum (our garden is going to be huge). They say they last 5-10 years (depending on what you buy) and I wondered, does that mean you don't till? Or do you roll it up, till and then put it back? Can you let it sit over the winter? Thanks!

Eileen

I only use it on peppers and eggplant.. sizeable, but not huge. I remove it and till it. and replant in slits i've made.. the local farms that are huge use plastic mulch.. plastic with holes in it.. they roll it up, there is a fixture in the tractor that rolls/unrolls it.

I would imagine you could keep it down if you use foliage or liquid fertilizer.. for a season or three... the winter freezing/thawing will most likely reduce the life of the fabric

how big is huge?
-joe-

Most landscape fabric is not UV resistant. It is intended to be used under a mulch cover. If exposed to sunlight it doesn't break down like paper or cardboard but just becomes fragile - it tears real easy.

If you want to supress weeds in your vegatable garden straw might be a better choice. It won't block weeds like landscape fabric but it will surpress them and you can rake it up.

If you lay down cardboard or paper under the straw you can block almost as much weeds as landscape fabric. The only drawback is they are not permeable like landscape fabric so put it only between your rows. It will break down by the end of the year and you can till it under.

We found 3X50' rolls which happens to be exactly the size rows we want to plant. They're $10 a piece, which is a bit steep, but I think it'll be worthwhile. I'm okay with it getting worn - it may just have to be a yearly expense. If we can keep the weeds down maybe we'll try straw next year. (We're going to have lots mixed with chicken manure from our coop - just ordered the chickens!). So, we'll see how it goes. I'm assuming, however, that there's no way to use it for direct sowing like with lettuce, carrots, radishes, etc. I guess we'll just have to deal with the weeds in those rows. :(

Are you planning for a raised bed, maby for vegetables? If so, buy a good quality of cloth usually Lowe's has good ones. I have had some down for 6 years but it is around shrubs. No tilling in this area. If you use raised beds it will be great to cover and then make slits for your plantings. It is great to keep out weeds and also keeps the soil warm and the moisture level high. You will have to remove it if you are using a tiller. Mine did not rot and it stayed out in the winter. Pinestraw just makes it look nicer.
Happy gardening !

Everyone has his own opinion based on his own experience, so here is mine, landscape fabrics are more trouble than they are worth. I've found a good health cover of pine bark much, pine straw or hay to do a better job of holding grass and weeds down than the fabric. They are also adding to your soil as they decompose.

I will have to agree with Jim. I only use it in areas that have permanent plantings. Such as shrubs and rosebeds. If you are planting a raise bed vegetable garden as I do, You can use it at the bottom before you fill it with dirt. Actually newspaper works just as well and is cheap. Check out this info on raised beds. Good luck

http://davesgarden.com/guides/articles/view/618/

This message was edited Feb 15, 2010 8:00 PM

I have followed a lot of threads about using newspaper in your raised beds for veggies. I like the idea and am using that method on the two new beds I built last fall. A lot of people mulch there raised veggie beds but I never do. Everything is so tight that once it is up and growing the shade keeps down any grass and weed problem. Also if I have composted right I don't have trouble with grass seed sprouting. Although mulching helps to conserve water, I feel like I can monitor the moisture need better without the mulch. Again that is a personal preference. I am in the process of building a drip sytem for all beds this year. I am using half inch pvc pipe with .5 gal./hr. tips.

I agree with Jim also, although I haven't grown veggies (yet!) There was landscaping fabric all over my yard when we bought this house, the soil under it smelled moldy and we had a bad mushroom problem. Once I tore it all up and turned all the soil the mushrooms went away. They were those nasty mushrooms that smelled and attracted flies.

I don't recommend the use of landscape fabric either, particularly in drier climates. Water does not penetrate it easily, and so plants grown in it are limited to getting water from a very small area, i.e. the hole in the fabric through which they were planted. I think its best use is for killing plants - it is quite effective for killing even grass when it is applied and then covered with mulch.

To any one , I am looking for a plant to use as back ground that need 3 or 4 hours sun it will be shaded early morning and late evening. But I would like to have something that will grow kind of tall.any suggestions will be welcome thanks

The beds in front of our local library for years had landscape fabric under gravel (and a few sad-looking trees). Leaves would fall on the gravel and be impossible to rake up. The leaves broke down creating new soil where weeds could grow on top of the landscape fabric. It looked like a pain to me, and they've redone the library beds now with shrubs and perennials.

When I purchased my property i found landscape fabric and plastic in places I would never have imagined. Don't know how long it had been there but there was various levels of erosion happening in these areas because water and rain was unable to penetrate the cloth and plastic. Plus it was showing on the edges and high spots on every previously landscaped area of the property. Abandoned beds I wanted to revive had been grown over by weeds and was a nightmare to restore. After 9 years, I'm still not 100% free of the stuff. It does not come up easily, especially if you don't want to disturb some of the existing plants that were planted by way of a poked hole.

Mincey1 if you post your question as a new thread it will get a lot of answers! I'm not familiar with your zone but a lot of people here can help.

rockgardner I lost a beautiful azalea when I pulled up the landscaping fabric here. The roots were so entagled in the layers of plastic I couldn't save it.

Thanks Linnie6868 I am new at this.
Iva

If putting straw and hay out to kill weeds, what keeps it from killing the plants and shrubs too?

I don't think straw and hay actually kill the weeds, I think they prevent weed seeds from sprouting (a lot of weeds need a bare patch of soil to get started).

I've always wondered why people recommend putting down straw to block weeds. I suppose if you put it in a thick enough layer it >might< be a deterrent to weeds, but in thinner layers it actually helps provide the environment in which seeds are most likely to sprout. Haven't you ever seen landscapers spread straw on freshly sown grass seed to help it germinate?
I like the "daily walk through the gardens to see what's up and pull a few weeds" approach. It's easy, free and 100% organic!

And whatever weed I don't get today will still be growing tomorrow since we all know garden marauders don't eat weeds only veggies and veggie stalks! As long as I get it before it sets seed I'm cool with letting them be.

Landcape fabric is not really useful as a weed barrier. Its main purpose is to prevent the mixing of soil & aggregate underground whilst still allowing water through. I've seen many, many yards where a "Weed barrier" fabric was placed underneath stones or paving - and the weeds are waist-height!

4-6" of good cedar mulch, topped up and lightly tilled yearly, produces the same effect and allows natural biological processes to occur uninhibited. The mulch will also deposit nutrients as it bio-degrades over time. Any weed seeds that do germinate in the mulch are very easily pulled out. A thick layer of mulch also acts as a "blanket" for the plantbed's roots.

There is not, nor will there ever be (at least in my opinion) any way to get rid of weeds in garden soil other than regular cultivation, weeding, and soil amendment. (Weeds prefer nutrient-deficient soil. So keep your soil healthy and the weeds won't want to grow there in the first place!)

***I can't stress enough how important a THICK LAYER of mulch is. One or two inches WILL NOT do the job.***

This message was edited Mar 31, 2010 6:02 PM

Landscapetech55 - I beg to differ. I've had landscape fabric last many years with no weeds to count. I ONLY use landscape fabric under stone pathways (gravel, stepping stone) and any other landscape accent that requires stone without undesired plant growth. While I wouldn't recommend using the stuff in and around plants, since it does somewhat inhibit water pass-through, it should hold up fine underneath stones and paving. Perhaps your experience with waist-high weeds was with high traffic pathways without proper tamping? I can see how this would cause constant shifting underneath promoting wear and tear to the fabric. I am TOTALLY against using plastic/tarps on anything underground, no matter what the reason. This is a recipe for disaster.

I totally agree - plastic is an impermeable barrier and definitely a BAD idea to put in the ground except against foundation walls and the like.

Grantman31: Landscape fabric under gravel is what I meant. If it's worked well for you, then you obviously take care of your property and get rid of fallen organic material - the fabric itself will stop weeds, yes -- but it cannot stop weeds growing in soil that has accumulated amongst the gravel pieces.

So basically all I'm saying is that as a "no-maintenance" product, it fails horribly. Used in the right location and with the right attention, it will will perform admirably for years.

If you're to use it at all, invest in the higher-quality professional landscape fabric - not the paper-thin hardware store variety. This product is almost impossible to tear through and will last indefinitely.

That makes more sense. You bet it requires maintenance. About once a week, I take a leafblower to my paths, ensuring all the leaves/clippings are out of there. Then, you have to get on your hands and knees to sift through the stuff that gets stuck. It's a pain, but it keeps it looking great! Since I use chipped marble, the contrast itself allows leaves to stick out like a sore thumb.

Grant, I feel your pain! I can't (and don't care to) remember how many times I had to remove & re-arrange river stone, as a younger person working as a landscape labourer... The most interesting ones were gravel-and-filter-cloth dog runs. Not pretty - especially here in Toronto after 'fermenting' beneath snow for five months of the year.
I personally like the thicker fabric - it's easy to pull up and 'flip' dirty gravel into a pile for a fresh start in the gravel/cloth areas.

I think we're going to end up using hay for most of our mulching. As I recall, having used wood chip mulch, it attracts and harbors tons of bugs, and I'm not sure that's what I want for the garden! We have a huge acreage of hay, so we'll just have to mow, and then lay it down the paths and around the plants. We did end up using the fabric around our raspberry and blackberry bushes, but have yet to figure out what to put on top. Again, I don't want to create a bug-friendly environment around edibles. Problem I'm having now is that I wanted to do raised beds using soil from the paths between the rows, but that's causing the paths to go all muddy (plus digging them by hand sucks). We've only got about six-twelve inches of soil though before you hit shale. I just NEED this garden to boom. We're doing the market this year, and we're hoping to be able to buy a tractor out of the proceeds.

I don't know if it's available in your area, but here cedar-bark mulch is readily available. As you probably know, cedar naturally repels insects and resists rot as a result. (So it will not become a food source for herbivorous insects...)

Putting hay on top of a garden as mulch creates an **IDEAL** breeding ground for certain beetles, slugs, snails, and other insects that will definitely munch on your food plantings. I strongly advise against it. Hay is best used on a garden in a thick layer just before winter (to regulate extremes in cold) and removed before it rots in the springtime. Depending on the size of your operation, laying long strips of cloth in between rows may indeed serve as a good temporary weed-barrier. may also make it easier to walk through the rows during rain spells.

The more beneficial insects you can attract to your garden, the better off you'll be - some more serious gardeners even release beneficials like ladybugs and nematodes to naturally control unwanted insects. Pesticides and commercial fertilizers like miracle-grow actually "kill" natural soil, thus reducing beneficial microbe and insect populations (and increasing your reliance on these products.)

Generally, pests (of all kinds - weeds, insects, diseases) thrive in unhealthy soil and plants. (just like in humans...) So, if we increase the health and vigour of the plant (by natural means), it will be better able to resist pest attacks. If we also increase the quality and texture of the soil in the garden, weeds will naturally not want to grow there.

(In the Greater Toronto Area, all synthetic pesticides have been banned for residential landscape use - we've been forced to adopt new measures like this to keep our industry alive!)

I personally use only pine bark mulch. I've never had any problem with harboring bugs. I like it because by the next year it has pretty well rotted. I think mulch is pretty much a personal preference and what is readily available. I tried a little cypress mulch one year and hated it. It forms a nearly a waterproff barrier. Colored mulchs run when it rains and looks terrible. If oat or wheat straw was available I would use it. Pine needles work fine when I've used them, especially if they have been chopped.

Well, as it turns out, we've decided not to use the landscaping fabric, and we're just using copious amounts of mulched brown grass and hay around all of our plants. So we'll see how that goes.

I use landscape fabric in my 600sq foot garden, but only use it is my walkways. What you need to do is invest in the 'good' stuff. The Wal-mart stuff is good for 1, maybe 2 years. One of your local landscape companies should have it in large rolls and should be willing to sell it to you by the foot. A company close to me has 2 different kinds, wimpy and thick, both in 20ft wide rolls.They have been kind enough to cut it into 3ft wide sections for my walkways. In the past I have been able to score the kind used for under new roads and so far it has lasted 15 years. At our local Community Garden all of their permanent pathways are covered in discarded carpet. Pick your color! I till my garden every year, and before the tiller comes I roll everything up, and when he is done I lay it back where I want my walkways, and use huge nails to hold it down. The only problem I have had is with some I used in a peramanent flower bed, after 10 years new soil had formed over the fabric and grass roots had grown through it. I pulled the fabric up, scraped it down with an ice scraper and then re-used it. Good luck.

When I lived in Massachusetts years ago, I obtained roofing material. The stuff that goes under the shingles. It was free. I used in my vegetable garden. Laid it out before planting. Cut slits where the veggies were to go. It is the perfect mulch---if you can get it free. I made slits or holes for rain water to go through.

Landscaping fabric isn't worth the money. My daughter has it under gravel for her patio. The prairie grass grows right through it. Possibly in the garden as a temporary mulch it may work.

Blomma,

The problem with roofing paper (felt) is that it is not permeable. It is made for a roof for a reason - to repel water! Thus, it is a horrible material to use on a surface that needs moisture and water. It is equivalent to putting a tarp on top of soil and expecting plantlife and roots to survive underneath. Stick with the fabric for its permeable properties. Making slits and holes will let some water through (and allow weeds to grow through anyways), but won't help for the rest of the surface still being suffocated.

Grantman31,
In spite of that, I had a great garden. Massachusetts is one rainy state so the ground really never dried out since I put it down. I would not use it here in Wyoming.

I wouldn't be concerned about the permeability of the roofing felt - it would actually prevent evaporation of water from the soil and keep the plant's roots very wet.

However, Blomma, I'd be more concerned about plants grown underneath this product, because of the toxic chemicals used in its production - tar, and various other oils and glues used to lubricate factory machines, preservatives, etc. You may be putting some of these chemicals into the plants and fruits you're growing - for your own safety, I would definitely advise against it.

I'd actually be curious to see if it actually had any effects on the fruit or vegetables you grew - perhaps try getting one tested at a local college or university for trace chemicals and let me know the results! Because roofing felt would definitely do a good job of keeping the soil warm and the roots wet.

But would it allow oxygen to penetrate the soil?

Hi,

Just to add my two cents worth, landscape fabric is nice under brick or stone walkways, etc. - but I like the ability to put down mulch or compost that can break down & nourish the soil.

You may have to pull an occasional weed, but as your soil gets healthier & richer from natural products you add, you'll most likely have less weeds since they generally prefer poorer soils.

As far as tilling, I've been reading more & more that many experts feel tilling every year tends to bring weed seeds to the surface causing more problems. If you keep adding compost, shredded leaves, mulch & other natural products, it will eventually loosen up your soil.

Also, try to avoid walking on the soil if you can. It tends to pack it down. If you have large beds, make paths to walk on.

Here's a link, if you're interested, in a forum about Cotton Burr Compost that was recently started by medinac.

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1096665/