Message from IB and responses

Then if the site has not changed much in the last 2-3 years ago, and things are not going to change much in the future here.. then for me that is fine. It would perturb me though if all the wonderful information that is in these archives would get lost. NO THAT WOULD BE A TRAVESTY.

Guess the best thing to do is start saving all information that is pertinant to self not to lose that.

Just the thought though of losing access to others is a huge bit beshelving.

Privacy here is being able to function without someone knowing your email address.
I do not recall it being asked for when I joined. Thus far, that is what I assume it will still remain. Some of us are writers, photographers and we function under a by-line name and that is how we have a right to do it.

I looked at the vBulletine screen shots and they look just like what FB and all of them use ,and I cerntainly don't care for it as it is difficult to navigate for me, and that is why I don't even get on FB unlees my GD sends me a message on it.

You're right, Blossombuddy.

Except for changes now that we'll see. I believe the difference will be gradual. When Dave sold the place the first time, I bet he required that he be in charge completely, so we didn't know about the sale, no need to upset anyone.

Then the new owners weren't under any obligation to either follow DG, or tell Dave that they were selling. I think that's what happened, anyway.

Michael, and the new owners have discovered, to their surprise, an unexpected hew and cry from all of us. I haven't been on any other forum that was so loyal to its' originator. Other sites have simply changed instantly, overnight, and the regulars just had to adjust.

In a year, I figure this place will still have most of us, but will not look much like it does now.

Yes, flowerfantasy, a LOT of clutter!

Re: PF.
While it is true that the photos still belong to us, we all agreed when joining (see TOS) that we give DG blanket permission to do what they like with any contributions made to the site or PF whether on the site or off the site.

"By providing content to our site, you have granted Dave's Garden unrestricted use of that material. We do make commitments of your privacy, however. Your E-mail address and full name will never be revealed to other entities by Dave's Garden. (See the Privacy Policy for details regarding the displaying of your city, state, and ZIP code.) We reserve the right to modify, reproduce and redistribute materials posted to our services, both internally and for commercial use. Copyright of all material published is retained by the contributor. The contributor does, however, grant to Dave's Garden a non-exclusive license to modify, reproduce, and re-distribute the contributed content in any manner that it sees fit. "

i have a short attn span and i i cant handle a page with an overload of info. i dont even look .. if im Googling around and i click on a link and its cluttered i immediately click out. i dont care if the info in there would make me a genius/millionaire id settle for mediocre info if i could get to it smoothly and immediately wo being assaulted with adds and links .. even if it is info for the site. keep it simple stupid.

i want to know why people/advertisers/ companies that own websites havnt figured out that adds stink and no one likes them. when i see an add or a pop up it makes me hate the company.. i remember it as the company that slapped me in the face with a bright color or disturbed me while i was trying to learn something. now if there was a section for adds and coupons id look but not when its dancing around in front of me distracting me from what im doing trying to get my attn . i get that from my kids... are they even sure adds sell any way.. i buy what i want when its on sale.. thats it i never saw an add and said oh i must go get that. brand recognition is already burned into our heads from the tv anyway... arrrggg
ok done venting

Yes, but the question arrises "DAVES GARDEN" who is that? Is the contributers... IE: general JOHN Q PUBLIC GARDENERS for lack of a better heading for all of the members of DG and their privacy to withhold their home email still good? This is the question I am getting from others.

I haven't seen anything in Michael's posts suggesting that IB has any intention of changing the privacy policy, but if they ever did want to do that, then they need to notify us of the change so you can look at the new policy and decide if you're comfortable with staying here under the new policy or not. Someone a while back also posted a link to the privacy policy on one of their other sites--I didn't take the time to look at it myself but got the impression from the post that it was in line with the privacy we have here now.

iris28, ads help websites pay for themselves. There is considerable expense involved in operating a site the size of Dave's Garden, and giving members the ability to upload photos and post all the text that we do, as well as open those photos to view them and browse around the various areas, including the articles which - as you know - cost money to produce ;o) That money has to come from somewhere.

Subscribers help support the site by their annual subscription, and we are grateful for their support. Those who are not subscribing see ads to help offset the costs. (Popup blockers do a pretty good job of keeping the "clutter" to a minimum, if they choose to use them.) Websites generally try to match ads to the interests of the readers - some do a much better job of that than others.

lol yeah i know :)im just burnt out on the constant onslaught of adds everywhere i go. i know there is a place.. its when they are intrusive that bugs me. my brain is the opposite of organized so when i see discord on the screen my brain is like ''look away !! dont get sucked in! dont click that link you will be here for an hr and never find what you are looking for!
then i snap out of it and theres 10 windows open and 50 tabs.

I haven't seen any mention of the Marketplace?? I'm wondering if that will change??

I stopped getting Marketplace ads some time ago. I though I'd maybe marked the wrong box but changing it didn't bring those ads back. What's up?

Well - I just got my socks knocked off. My husband googled Procrastinator Dave's Garden and my posts were there on google for all to see. Our member page shows up as well.

tomatofreak - I just asked DH to do a search on you and guess what? Your member page showed up too. Now that was on all three computers and we do have an auto log in set up but that was when I was logged out. I don't understand this. Any suggestions. Perhaps this is a back door to get to DG by going through google but I am totally confused. Someone please try it.

Waiting impatiently.

Elaine and Otis

Actually we haven't changed anything about ads. We are just now getting access to the site technically and beginning to set up the ad system to move over to ours. What you are seeing currently is remnant from previous owners.

Michael -I find that hard to believe since Dave honoured our privacy more than anything.

E&O

If I understand DG's copyright policy correctly, when submitting photos to the PlantFiles you retain ownership of your photos. However, in submitting them, you are granting DavesGarden a non-exclusive right to use those photos here on DavesGarden.

We have a couple of very robust photo-related sites (see www.trekearth.com as an example) and absolutely respect the rights of artists to retain ownership over their work. Nothing will change in this respect. However, to enable DavesGarden to function and be of value to the broader DG community we do need license to utilize what is submitted.

Hope this helps to clarify things.

Hummmm - I just Googled my self too - it shows my Marketplace ads, but this must not have been updated for months - most of the things that are listed are not currently listed as I have sold out of most of them for the season.

Please understand that what you experienced is the same thing that countless people have experienced since we implemented subscriptions back in 2001. It can be alarming until you log out and try running the same search.

Then--as now--I can confidently promise you that if you log out of your computer and try it again, you will not be able to see your forum posts made in the subscribers-only forums when you re-run that search. And you will probably not be able to click on most of those links you do see, and follow them back here.

Will you find your DG name if you Google it? Yes. that is not private information.

Azalea, if the Google results aren't up-to-the-minute that's because Google hasn't re-indexed your ads in a while. I'm afraid there's not much we can do about that - they control how often they come to various parts of the site and update their records.

Almost anything you googled would have a post or two from Dave's.
It's been that way forever.
Google just pulls up anything that has to do with the subject. Many times I was looking for a subject & an item from Dave's would be first, second or third choice.
I always thought that was cool, that things we posted were more important than other things. Best information always shows up first.

Your name is associated to your IP address & is accessible to all.

Bloomheaven (I like that name),

We were just talking with Terry about this yesterday evening. We will be continuing the article creation program here on DG (though there may be some slight tweaks - still working that out). In addition, IB has a very large article creation program that we'd like to give people here access to if they are looking to write more. It's a little different to how articles are created here, but the opportunities to create are much broader.

Hang in there, news will be coming soon.

Hi Michael, thanks so much for talking to us about all of this. I know you do not have too. I get you are the new owners and it is your site now.

Please clarify more. Reading what is written there is rather upsetting without clear clarification. Utilize the Plantfile pictures in what way? So you said you would only use them here on DG. Only in PF as it operates now? If you are going to use my photos in anyway to make money for your company or in any outside project other than as PlantFiles utilizes them now please tell us. I doubt too many of us do all that work for PlantFiles to make any of the DG owners including Dave himself money esp since we get no reimbursement at all. Not even free membership or even any official recognition that would be free for DG to extend to us.

And all the owners already monetarily benefit from our work in all the hits you get from having them which translates to advertising money. I would think PF also added to the value of DG too in a big way. I think that is way generous of all of us who submit photos as well as all the plants and all their details etc.

I really appreciate you taking the time to explain it to us.
PS Alice. Thanks so much!

That is good that "nothing will change in that respect". But are you implying that things will change involving our pictures in other respects? If so, what changes are you considering?

In what ways (if any) will your need to "license to utilize what is submitted" be different than what has currently been happening?

Learning about how things will be the same is reassuring. However, I am interested in more details about how you are planning to make it different. Exactly what changes are you considering that we will be able to detect?

I understand that you have said that IB wants to make the site better. What I don't understand is what specific changes that IB are considering. I also understand that considering changes and making them are two different things but I feel like I am in the dark with a bunch of vague wording around me.

Just an FYI... as much as we love dave and the admins we love our members too,

sunnyflo from haiti - finally checked back in. alive and putting the pieces to gether it seems..

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1052523/
there were over 400 views, so I am sure many of us have her in the back of our minds..

thanks for your time..

as you were.
-joe-

Thanks for the response Michael. I love opening a new article daily...I really look forward to it. I have to restrain myself from opening them when they are posted in the evenings because it's become one of my favorite Dave's morning routine parts...lol. I'm a creature of habit.

Terry:

I think you are likely correct, Terry. My system is set up to automatically log me in to certain sites. I'll go back and try logging in manually.

Well, this is strange. I googled my user name and came up with all manner of interesting stuff, including this: http://www.gardens.com/forums/f/region_sw/all/800 I wasn't even aware of this site so how do our posts get lodged over there? I also found my member page from GW, about 2003 as I recall; some posts from DG; and a couple of photos. Hardly the mass of stuff I've posted here over the years so I wonder how some stuff gets 'archived' (if that's the right word) and some doesn't. Also discovered I'm not the only "tomatofreak" out there.

Gardens.com is a related site to Dave's garden.

That doesn't explain how stuff gets over there!

We currently have no intention of changing DG's current privacy policy or terms of use (which would talk about copyright and ownership of materials submitted). And if any changes do need to be made we will alert everyone beforehand. What I was trying to state above was that, from what I understand, our own views on photo ownership exactly mirrors how DGs currently works so you should not expect any changes.

I would also love it if I had a nice clean list of the things that we will be changing so that I could inform everyone, but the reality is, such a list doesn't exist. We're really only a couple of weeks into learning about the site and as I've stated previously we want to be careful about changing something that works so well already.

Once we have more formalized ideas we will certainly share them so that we can get some good ole honest feedback from you all.

Gardens.com runs in tandem with Dave's Garden. The Beginner Forums that you see here at DG are the forums for Gardens.com

It is supposed to be a scaled down version that is a bit easier to navigate.

About the only feature I would love added to images from the PlantFiles is to lock the ability for some Joe Shmo to right click pictures for their own use. I have had to go in with threats on some unscrupulous eBay users that cropped out my copyright name on my images.

Me too, with vendor's websites. I would love that feature and have seen it on some sites. Please consider doing this, Michael.

to me garden.com is a navigational nightmare. is it ib's?. perhaps I am used to all the organized forums I subscribe to.... but really, it gives me a headache. comes across as a spam/ad site..I have been there a few times, and I never even knew it had forums..too many sites are so much easier to navigate and understand thier purpose.

my opinion is it is a terrible business card for IB, their organizational skills in design, severe lack of focus but maybe it is a moneymaker.. .

who's to say, if they get results......they get paid... i do believe they will keep DG close to what it is, if it isn't broken - don't break it..

i've had nothing against them until i revisited the site earlier today. I did not give them the benifit of visiting others they own, ivillage is better than that and it is a tough read... who owns that?
sorry michael, nothing personal, just read too much here about the skilled team at ib?

if it isn't ib's site, whoever is posting to another site, really should mention that much more clearly. I post at dave's not garden.com... that is misuse of my subscription funds at the least. not only did they accept my subscription but are profiting off our posts to promote or establish other money making sites....should've been more clear and I would never have opjected. you basically sold my posts abiet to yourself.

all apologies if this has been covered and the thread moved on.. takes a few days to read through all the posts...

recently disappointed
-joe-

Gardens.com was built several years ago it isn't anything new. It is where the Go Gardening feature originates from. Go Gardening is used both places, but is a gardens.com feature.

Gardens.com was discussed extensively here when it was created and subscriptions are good both places, a 'value added' feature. We've never tried to hide it from anyone. It is simply an extension of Dave's Garden.

Well, thank you for al the information and all the ponderings that have been put in peoples heads.

I have run into issues at other sites.. a particular photo bucket comes to mind where I had not used the site in a long time.. then was wanting to use it. Well after 4 or 6 months of no use, the site dumped its partonizers and all photos became toast They never said that would happen.. Just one day it up and did!. I have seen this happen with secondary email addies too that if you do not use them during a period of time, poof! That alone tells me nothing is permanant on any website.

Ok, well it was fine to learn everyones opinion. The food for thought to many is I am sure overwhelming.

All anyone can do is hash out their problems seemingly on an individual basis because everyones problems are not the same. So that makes opinions good and bad for anyone.

With that said.. the changing of the guard is never fun. As big as Daves has become, Dave has made his mark that is for sure.

Moving on to a new site is just as unknown as staying on an old site with new management. They both are new uncharted territory.

I guess what reasons each of us have for being where we are are up to us, but anyone doing elaborate photos or research guess a lesson here is to back up your notes on a secondary home file. to mot lose what is valued to you be it pics or words.

Many of us have friends here. To some of us that will mean navigating between sites should a friend decide to embark elsewhere. We all cant be everywhere we want at the same time. So staying in touch will be a matter of individuals continuing their relations however they can if they want to stay in touch.

My problem, becomes time divided or running between other sites. The back and forth can become dizzying. And when I have friends on both sides.. making a move to one side ot the other is at best very hard both technically and torn between likes and dislikes of what is out there.

Ok, enough of this for me to ponder for one day.

No Right Click is totally useless.
I have at least 3 programs that will allow you to pull from any site guarded or not.
Watermarking across the picture to to bottom stops cropping and use.

Ric

the garden.com site comes off as a bait and switch kind of site.
I am reletively new here, if i didn't hear about it here, and stumbled across my posts on ther sites, without knowing who owns who - i would assume you sold my posts and would wonder what else you sold..

honestly i tell everyone how much i love this site.. this (new to me) item puts it into thi like it category... it's no secret but not obvious either.. no harm - no foul

i am glad i found about it this way instead of stumbling upon it.. I still don't like the bait and switch look to it.

just my two cents, i will renew when my subscription is up in two weeks... but would like an opbvious header on top of 'shared' threads and topics... you are hiding it otherwise.


oh, where else are subscriptions good.. i was so excited to sign up, i may have missed the fine print. let alone forgot about it over the last year..

again.. you ARE hiding it if it isn't reasonably obvious. all other forums that share or hold other sites (as far as i the others i belong to) have the links and a note in a header.
-joe-

I abhor watermarking across the picture!!
I know there are ways around the right click but it's a basic start.

Good suggestion, Sue. There is someone on the wildlife thread that said her pics were lifted from here, too and used elsewhere.

Hi again Michael. Thanks again for responding to me. I guess I am not being too clear. I am not worried you are going to change anything right now. My worry is that from what I am understanding from what Budgielover shared with us above, DG has always had the right to do whatever they wanted with our photos on Dave's Garden or off Dave's Garden. I had always thought before that I was letting DG just use them in PlantFiles as Terry had told us earlier.

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/p.php?pid=7516871



That DG statement is pretty strong. So is it correct that as it stands now and evidently has stood for a long time, the owners of Dave's Garden has the right to sell our photos and publish them anywhere they want. In effect they can do anything they want with them?

So though we retain the copyright, we actually retain no rights over them as far as Dave's Garden is concerned. Is this correct?

Thanks again

This message was edited Feb 5, 2010 2:07 PM