Apropos of Nothing v.7

Summer - sounds to me like you're making him choose.......

His family has treated me horribly. I feared for my physical safety with that crew, I kid you not.

Thinking back, over the 9 years that I was with the man I briefly married, I was thick as thieves with his mother. Marliene was no rocket scientist but she was goodhearted & I enjoyed her company. I called her every other day & made sure that she was welcome to tag along with us anywhere (she was a somewhat-lonely widow), to the point that she went to Europe with us twice, for a month each time, and I treated her to a trip to her father's homeland, Croatia.

Contrast that with Betty's situation -- I used to drag Jack to see her anytime we were driving past Mokena even if he didn't want to. I would ask about her family & got her to tell us stories that Jack himself had never heard. But for some reason she decided to view me as spawn of Satan, perhaps as a competitor to her status of Mother-as-Queen, I honestly don't know (Jack says it's because she thinks I'm a bad housekeeper). So she sees Jack maybe every 3 weeks now, because he's angry at her & doesn't really enjoy her company. If he moves to Oregon because that's where his girlfriend fled to, she'll see him only at Christmas.

Which mom was smarter in the end?

I fully respect the place of a woman who had children & expects to be treated like a queen by them. But I don't think it gives them the right to sit on a throne like Jabba the Hut & be mean to anyone viewed as an interloper.

Judi, maybe I misunderstood you. I am not moving back to the Midwest for love nor money -- is that forcing Jack to choose between me & his family, or is that just what men do when they're in love?

My brother went wherever was best for his family; my father has gone wherever was best for his wife. I would rather that they just hung around ME but certainly don't question their decisions.

Summer I think all of (good looking) Jack's travels in the past were to get away. This is probably the perfect time to offer the choice.

Summer, I don't think people should have to choose between the love of their lives and family. But I also don't think mothers should expect to be queens and keep their sons (or daughters) as their subjects. The whole point of raising children is to end up with independent and loving people. I have watched more than a few friends throw a wrench between their guy and the guy's family, usually for idiotic reasons, and it just causes misery for someone.

I have not met you in person, but you seem like a really cool person who knows what she wants and is strong enough to follow her dreams. I respect and admire that. You chose to move to Oregon and that was brave and sounds like it was good for you. But in doing so, YOU made the choice to have Jack many miles away.

I hope it all turns out well for you and Jack -

Looks to me as though Jack has had the choice for a long time. Maybe it's just now that he'll have to face it. Either way, you're building your life in Oregon.

And we're all glad you're here in the PNW!

Dmail Summer

Now I ask all of you - how long would you wait for a doctor who is running late and you have a scheduled appointment? How long would you sit there?

Judi, that is a bit of a two-edged blade. On the one hand, I appreciate a doctor who is not driven by the clock and will take the time to really answer your questions, which can perhaps put his/her whole rest of the day out of whack. On the other hand, it is common courtesy to honor scheduled appointments. Sometimes it helps to call ahead (especially if your appointment is later in the day) to ask if the doc is running on time or behind. A good receptionist will answer truthfully and allow you to replan your own schedule if need be, or could even call not so urgent folks and offer to reschedule when the scheduling gets really fouled up. I usually try for the first appointment in the morning, when you are almost guaranteed timely service.

Judi - if I am scheduled during my work week, I won't wait more than 15 minutes. I prefer a doc that has made the decision to devote a certain segment of time to all his/her patients, and to honor that. My chiropractor runs behind more often than not, but I ask upon arriving if he is behind & how much. I don't want to be shorted of my time so the doc can get back on track, but i understand things happen & the days don't always go as planned. However, i won't stay with a doctor that is chronically late/behind, and I make clear that I won't pay when i have to reschedule because the Doc is behind. The worst was seeing the Obstetrician...
I have a doctor that devotes 1 hour to each patient; these visits are primarily to cover the lab results from blood workups. I am expected to be on time & do my part - I fully expect any doc to do theirs.
Doctors run a business, though & their practice must be lucrative or they will not stay in business. I respect that. But i won't trade my $$$ for their services if it's run poorly or all I get is 10-15 minutes. This is one great reason to interview any medical professional that might be involved in one's health care.

I have seen this physician 4 times in the past 6 months, each time having a scheduled appointment. I certainly don't mind waiting 30 minutes because unforeseen things can happen. However, EVERY TIME I have gone I have waited over an hour, and today I waited over an hour and a half and then had to leave for another appointment. Their policy is that you must sign in before your scheduled appointment time or you must reschedule. Today I did call to see if she was running late and I was told I had to sign in as usual and if I was late they could not see me. I was very polite and told the receptionist I needed to leave and I would call to reschedule. The waiting room is always a very tense place, with people pacing back and forth. I think I need a new doctor.

Katye - we cross-posted. Thank you for your input - I am feeling like a fool for tolerating this!

Judi - that is a tough one. An hour is too much, at least for me. Your time should be respected, too. Sounds like this is the norm for that office.

No problem - better to let them know you'll be taking your business elsewhere & why. ANY professional should value their patients, including their time. I'm sure they want to be valued - it's a 2-way street!

This message was edited Jan 26, 2010 8:38 PM

It is the norm for the office. It's a large group of internists at OHSU and I go there because the doc knows a lot about celiac disease so now I have to do research to find another. Ggggrrrrrr.

I detest interviewing doctors. DETEST it! But it is the only way i know to find someone that will truly focus on me whenever I am there & paying them!

Trading my $ for service - it better come out as a win-win for both of us. Otherwise, I will most likely be the one getting the short-end of the stick.

I am resigned to finding another doctor so I will start tomorrow. I usually go through support organizations for celiac disease and get recommendations. It's a pain but better than getting irritated each time I have an appointment!

I agree, find someone else. Waiting for that long is inexcusable. The sign-in routine is just a way of making the patient feel as though they don't have the right to leave. Generally, if we have insurance, we've already made our copay.
How long I'll wait depends on how sick I am. If I'm really sick, I don't care how long I have to wait. But I make them take me in the back and put me in a room so I can lay down. In the past, when I've decided to stop waiting, the move toward the door with the explanation that I, too, have a schedule to keep, has brought medical personnel running. I don't blame my doctor, really, because he works for a large practice for a hospital and probably has little control over the number of patients scheduled. But that being said, he has more power than I have in that situation.

Just now I'm pretty ticked off at the doctor's office myself. What do you do when somehow the medical personnel don't seem to get your messages? I called three times, spending a total of one hour on hold in all, trying to get a message across to the meds nurse to correct the InCORRECT message she had been given by the front desk staff the week before. She never called me back. Then I got a nasty message on my voicemail that she had yet to hear from me and would give me until the next day to get back to her or she would 'refile my chart'. Let me tell you that the amount of rage I felt was very likely not appropriate to the situation, but it is a very good thing that she was not in my presence. I called back the next day, talked, yet again, to the front desk person, who promptly put me on hold, then told me this particular nurse wasnt' in until 1:00. Did I want to leave a message? After several deep breaths, I told him calmly, Very , very calmly, that, NO, I did not want to leave a message for this person. That I was finished leaving messages for this person and that I would handle this with the doctor directly the next time I saw him. Still fuming over that.

So then because I've been completely ill for two weeks (two ear infections that are just killing me, and now into the chest) and the antibiotics, while very helpful, did not take care of the breathing issue completely, I called the doctor's office at 8:30 yesterday to talk to his nurse (different person, generally very timely and helpful). No one ever called me back. The whole day! I'm fit to be tied. Tomorrow I'm calling again and if I get put on hold I'm going to tell the receptionist that I'm coming down there and I'm going to stand in the waiting room until someone sees me. There!

Sorry for the Pixy rant, but I just feel like crap. Just Holy Crap!

Yes, we are having the seed party.. I need it.

Pixy, that is just terrible. It is their job to be civil and decent to their clientele and to HELP YOU OUT, especially when you are sick. It is amazing that you could speak to them calmly after that treatment, even though it was with suppressed rage.

Judy, I agree that an hour is quite simply way too long, unless a person is at the emergency room un-announced and there are people with more critical illnesses who must be seen first. An hour and a half is simply inexcusable, especially when they won't even give you the courtesy of letting you come in later if they are running late. that signing in thing seems manipulative and controlling.

I generally create such a disturbance in the waiting room that they hustle me right in. I geniunely start to lose it if kept in a confined space longer than I told my body would happen.

I've never waited more than 15 minutes to see ANYONE.

OK my only imput is I always get the FIRST appointment in the morning or afternoon. This results in the Dr not having backup from previous patients. O like a Dr who "talks" too much and deals with my issues.

Portland - I agree that an 1 1/2 is too long to be kept waiting, but before deciding to change clinics/doctors may I make two suggestions:

First, make an appointment to speak with your doctor and let her know how uncomfortable this is.

Second, if the doctor is good it might be worth giving them this time, so invest in an ipod and always have a very good book with you with a thermos of your favourite hot drink. Turn your chair to the wall (so you don't see the pacers), and plan on a good uninterrupted hour of reading/listening. Its rare enough to get free time, so take it where you can. (YOU MAY WANT TO TAKE A SIGN WITH YOUR NAME ON IT TO HANG ON THE BACK OF THE CHAIR SO THE RECEPTIONIST CAN FIND YOU - its really easy to zone out with an ipod.) (do they have wifi available at the clinic?)

Don't fight it, just live better. If you plan on an hour and a half - then its found time.

Aw Pix that's terrible. If the people in the office cannot respond to you when you are really sick then why are they there? If I were you I would definitely speak with the doctor about your experience. How frustrated you must be! And, I hope you feel better soon. You need strength for the seeds!

Laurie, I like your suggestions, and I do have an ipod and I'm in the middle of "Three Cups of Tea" and it's a great book. However, when I feel like I'm being held captive and it's taken for granted that patients have no other things happening in their lives, then I'm finished. I got a kick out of the sign suggestion - that might get someone's attention!

Mauryhill, I agree that the sign-in thing is controlling. It does make you feel like you can't leave. But then all of a sudden I thought to myself "Why are you sitting here like a fool" and then I politely told the receptionist I had to leave - and she said she understood completely. The doctor actually called me at 8 am this morning. She said she was sorry but she gets busy and has so many patients. She likes people to sign in because she can't afford to be kept waiting for those that might be late!!!!! I explained that I understand about emergencies but that I have been kept waiting at least an hour every time, and maybe she needs to revise her scheduling policies if this is the norm. At least give patients the option of arriving a little closer to the actual time they will be seen. She replied that she likes to know that the patients are there and ready for her. I replied that she just lost me as a patient. Done.

The sun is out! Pix, I hope you are getting some healing sun today as well.

OOH, I would so 'break up' with that doctor, too. Portland. I'm sure she likes to have people ready and waiting for her. My my.
I've put another call in, and am now waiting for a call back, again. So if I don't hear back within the hour, I am calling again. And again, and again if necessary.

I agree with Soferdig. For scheduled visits like physical exams where I know in advance I'm coming in, I schedule the first appt in the morning. Otherwise, I always bring a book. I wonder if it would be just too rude of me to bring my blanket and pillow. Ipod won't work just now, though. Ears hurt too bad.

sheesh, Pix - take your bed, too! And you might try wearing a replica of the suleman jiffy-pop hat. Put little christmas lights on it to get their attention.

From my perspective, "hiring" a Dr. is not much different than hiring a plumber or anyone else that provides a service. You are trading your life-energy collateral for their service. I'm pretty certain that most would not continue to pay for a plumber that was constantly late/behind schedule, etc... But when it comes to certain professions like Drs., we feel a certain obligation to continue with them. They are getting paid for their expertise & time. But never forget, that the $ you are paying was the result of your time & energy. Your time spent waiting for the Dr. has value as well. Your time should not be relegated to a lower status than that of the Dr. I understand circumstances beyond one's control. I do not understand continual poor time management.
Judi - I hope you can find someone that will meet your expectations - I empathize that you must do more work to accomplish this, but it will be worth it.
I truly believe in being fair, and having expectations of being treated fairly. I don't hesitate to vote with my feet.

Unbelievable. I called again this morning. This time, I made an appointment for tomorrow afternoon before leaving a message. Never got a call back. You can bet there will be explanations expected and he's going to hear plenty from me. If I have to change doctors I'm going to be very upset. He's been my doctor for 10 years. He knows me, we're on a first name basis (as it should be). It's hard to find someone that I don't have to explain everything to. But if this is going to be the expectation now, I won't have much choice.

If I had a practice, i would want to know that my staff were not treating my clients well.
Customer service is disappearing rapidly, and so we come to expect less & less.
A business cannot be run successfully with continual sabotage by staff. The sole purpose of staff is SUPPORT.
Please tell him & do so thoroughly - he needs to hear it.

Horray for corporate medicine!

Well done portland.

I would eat a lot of split pea soup with onions, broccoli, and sugar the night before. Definately the waiting room would clear out!

Um, no thanks, STeve! LOL! Oh yes, we will have what I believe they call 'a little come to Jesus' talk today. But at least I will feel better before Saturday.

PIX!!! And you didn't get censored for that!!! I'm shocked and giggling.

Go Pix! I'm dying to know what happens! Maybe "dying" wasn't such a good word to use here. Steve - you're such a guy.

I threw a hissy fit a year or two ago for similar reasons-disrespecting my time and the other patients as well. I was a little late, went anyway because I thought it would be worse to just not show up, expecting to be told that I needed to reschedule, and was told that they could fit me in, (that was nicer than expected!). They collected my copay, made me sit for 40 minutes and then came out and said they couldn't fit me in after all. They even started telling me that they were having difficulties with another patient and what was happening with her that was causing them to be delayed. I insisted that they refund my copay and told them that they should have just said they couldn't fit me in. I also told them they had no business telling me about the other patient, and that their treatment was disrespectful of both of us-the other woman who was being treated was probably being rushed because I was waiting, so her needs became "problems", and me for being let sit there. My Dr. has a different nurse these days (and I probably have a reputation for being kind of..."difficult", to use "DG-13" terms-but I can live with that.). I also get frustrated with doctors that don't seem to get that they work for US. WE choose them to provide services, not the other way around.

I must interject from a Dr' s perspective. A flu vaccine scheduled for 15 minutes can turn into 2 hrs. "oh while I am here could you look at............. Then the write up for records and 3rd party billing, then a reaction to vaccine then emergency IV catheter oxygen mask consult with hospital ER doctor........... Life is unpredictable in the practice of medicine. Just a thought.

Sure, it is unpredictable, but how you choose to handle the unpredictability is where the professionalism and respect aspect comes in.

Besides, crises actually occur in all businesses, not just medical ones-doctors don't get a free pass, sorry. When I was working in account management, I didn't get to treat one of my other customers poorly because I didn't handle one of my other responsibilities well. Doctors have MORE education and training-they should be held to a higher standard of professionalism, not a lower one.

In my case, under no circumstances should I have been told anything about what the delay is, it's none of my business, and kind of a violation of privacy and trust as well. I don't want to be in a treatment room wondering who the nurse is blabbing to about me-that shouldn't even need to cross my mind. It would have been more respectful to have sent me home in the first place than to handle it how they did. I understand, I'm responsible for being late in the first place, I'll "take my lumps" and come back another time-really what I'd been expecting anyhow. But after they said they could fit me in, once they realized something was going south, they have a responsibility to the patient being treated to deal with her crisis. Saying something to me like "I'm very sorry, but we have an emergency and we need to ask you to reschedule after all" would have been perfectly acceptable. Not coming out 40 minutes later and saying "We can't see you today. you were late anyway, and we have this other patient, and she's taking so long with this procedure, and, blah, blah, blah...so we don't have time for you today." Not at all OK. Not good patient management.

I agree with you Suzybell. If a doc has frequent emergencies then they need to schedule flex time into their schedules.

In partial defense of the docs, many are working in clinics being run by a conglomerate with their eye more on the profit margin that patient care. My outlaw-sister (ex wife of my bro) was a CPA at one such clinic and she would tell me absolute horror stories of the inner workings - instead of scheduling 30 minute appointments, let's cut it to 20 minutes so we can squeeze in one extra patient per hour -- which of course cuts back on the chit-chat that establishes doctor-patient repoire, limits any 'oh yeah, what about this...' and results in the doc having his/her hand on the doorknob starting to sweat because their 'numbers' aren't going to be good that day. All in all, a bad situation. Part of the overall health care crisis we are current trying to solve.

My now-ex doc has her own private practice and is charge of how her office schedules. I understand how the healthcare business works - I was an RN for many years before becoming an architect, and was also married to a physician for 28 years. When a doc signs up to work with a conglomerate they know what they are getting into. I'm tired of hearing complaints from physicians. I remember when managed care first began and they were all afraid that if they didn't contract with managed care organizations they would lose patients and the doc down the hall would get all the patients. If all the docs in a conglomerate got together and said they will not tolerate scheduling that detracts from patient care they would have a strong voice. I understand emergencies and patient complications but please, leave the greed at the door.

As I said, in "partial defense"... I agree that the docs should create more of a voice.

Oh Bonehead I may have sounded a bit harsh - sorry! I'm just so weary of the whole healthcare mess.