Apropos of Nothing v.7

We have a serious problem here like that. People go off to work and let their dogs run for the day. They run in packs. If I didn't have donkeys, well one donkey now :( , I would have lost all my goats and poultry. The guy down the street has lost many goats. A drunk lady showed up at my door one night apologizing for her dog killing my goat, but it wasn't mine. Weird.

Once a dog ran into my yard and grabbed by cat. I snatched up a carriage whip and whacked it and it dropped Jewel. I was livid. We've had dogs come in and harass our horses. I was worried about 2000lbs vs. dumb dog. I was told if the horse killed the dog IN MY OWN YARD it would be trouble for me. So sadly had something happened the owners would have never known what happened to their dog. :X

My friend got in trouble for shooting a dog in his own yard that was going after his grandson. It cost him a bunch of money to defend himself.

Don't get me wrong...I LOVE DOGS. My #1 animal. Mine get out on a rare occasion but I hunt them down. My dog has a buddy up the street and as soon as my van shows up they both get the "BUSTED" look and Poly hops in the car.

OK vent...vent.. hot topic for me.


Ginger

I too Laurie don't watch Medical shows because it seems like work. If I had been given a chain saw certificate I'm sure they would have taken it away from me. Lots of tree felling with incorrect results. But after learning the rules I am pretty good now. Though I won't got up in them to top them too squirley.
The issue is Dogs kill and people should know they do. I have a dog that kills cats and he no longer can leave our fenced in property. Electric and physical fence.

This message was edited Jan 21, 2010 2:15 PM

Hot topic for me, too, Ginger. I love dogs and I wish we could tell them what we wanted and that they all would obey (same with people). But they can't, they're like two year olds, they act on impulse according to their nature. Why would we expect anything less. We're supposed to set them up for success. Not set them up for failure and then let them suffer the consequences while we go on free to make more mistakes.

It's a problem all over. Our neighbor rescued a Jack Russell and I give them credit, they've really worked with it and it behaves a lot better than before. Until it sees a squirrel or a nutria or a raccoon or a cat or anything else that moves. They won't take it over to our other neighbors house until their puppy gets bigger. It's a Bichon and I don't think it'll ever be big enough not to look like prey to the Russell. My problem with them is they let if off the leash when they get close to home, have to walk by my place and it knows full well that there's a stray cat in my yard, chased it a few times. Owner says sorry about that. I told him it's going to kill her if he ever catches her, he says "It's just a stray!" That cat almost never leaves my yard and if it does it doesn't go far, too spooked by people.

Omigosh, and here I thought I got off with no lecture about the hitchhikers. My comfort zone for human interaction is different from most. Here is my thinking: In decades of hitchhiking, hanging out in dive bars in other countries, and walking home from work at 2 a.m. in Philly, the worst damage done to me was by the man I knew & chose to marry.

Beadmom, meat is perfectly OK for compost, just cover it up to prevent its smelling. People bury fish with their corn, what's the difference? When I was still writing for DG, I wrote a whole article on composting roadkill. I've never begrudged any animals that might be interested in my scraps -- they have so little habitat, seems like the least I can do. And I would be honored to be raccoon food rather than filled with formaldehyde.

I can't imagine putting up with the dog problems you folks are describing. Contact your local newspaper & find a news reporter who's interested in comparing dog-mauling statistics with the number of dogs running loose in your town. And don't people get tickets if you turn their loose dog into Animal Control?

My beloved Osita has free rein to visit the neighbors, always has, but she is a mama's girl & a sweet, street-smart Third World cur who would never hurt anyone or a cat, I'd stake my life on it.

Here she is, watching ducks back in Kankakee with her own pet, littlejackwinter.

Have you guys seen this post? http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/p.php?pid=7482580
Hmmm....

Love that picture, SK.

I wish I'd had a nickle for every time an owner at the dog park said to me, "I've never seen my dog behave that way," when their dog saw my dog run. "Packing up" and seeing prey in the right circumstances can make any dog surprise you.

It's sort of like turning a two-year-old loose in a room with a loaded gun. Parents think their kids won't touch it, but with the right circumstances and social pressure, many will. I would prefer never to put my two-year-old in that position . . . or at the very least to stack the odds in his favor.

Once you get out into less suburban areas I think there just aren't enough animal control people to go around.

Holy cow. Thanks for sharing that, Lynn. I would have thought that when Dave sold/converted to NameMedia he would have had a contract that protected him from this. And it seems odd that the sale would automatically mean that he would be removed as admin. Why wouldn't they want to keep him in that position?

I look forward to more details.

Here is some chat regarding the sale. http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/p.php?pid=7482947

What a great picture! Look like chums to me!

I don't like the sound of that! Really hope it isn't true.

It's true. I just read a post from Dave, himself. http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/p.php?pid=7483382

That makes a little more sense. But I'm interested in why anybody would think that Dave has to be shut out from any venture at all. Most companies would like to buy a popular enterprise and get the experienced "employees" to do the grunt work while they decided what changes would benefit them.

Sounds better, hope it all works out well.

Kathy is right, outside of suburbia the rules and feelings change on "ranging" animals. Animal Control is for wayward bears tearing up your structures looking for food. They won't come for much else.

And to top it off, now I'm seeing "coyotes" that look suspiciously like coyote/dog crosses. I saw a short-haired brindle dog with coyote ears last summer.

Who is letting their intact dogs roam and interbreed with coyotes?

If you have a decent newspaper in town, they're still worth a shot. Even if they're not exactly looking for an investigative expose, you can use them to help build a case for the severity of the problem, which will stand you in good stead by, for instance, if something happens that involves you. Law enforcement also responds to a reporter's call as if they've been prodded with a branding iron, sometimes.

Does anyone here have experience growing staghorn ferns? I picked one up at a nursery the other day that is potted in peat. I want to mount it in my south-facing front porch.

Actually, it's P. bifurcatum, which makes it an elkhorn?

I know they need lots of water and are absolutely amazing in my opinion. Should be in the plant forum for culture.

Lynn, thanks for posting the info about Dave - I'm sure its all very confusing in a big handover, and its good to hear that it looks like Dave will be staying with DG - be sad to lose him.

"Who is letting their intact dogs roam and interbreed with coyotes?"

My Grandma lives in the desert in Southern California. As long as I can remember we have always gone walking with a big stick or a handgun. This is because over the years people who have vacation cabins out there either leave, lose or abandon their pet dogs and the larger ones breed with the coyotes. Now there are roving packs of cross breeds that are domestic enough to not be afraid of people and wild enough to be threatening.

Once a pack chased Grandma into an outhouse and she had to stay there for hours.
She can't leave her little dog on the porch alone. Once a coyote cross came right up and took her. They were lucky to get her back alive and in need of many stitches. Grandpa went right out and hunted her down.

Summer. That is a great picture. I am in awe of all the beautiful blue Harvey's Bristol Cream bottles.......Somewhere I have a picture of Poly curled up with the baby goat he raised all by himself! (Just ask him). He still goes out and jumps the fence and touches noses with her.

Ginger

I know it happens in rural areas, but in suburban areas? I don't know - you'd think we know better. I heard today that they are hunting the coyotes in Magnolia with guns because the traps didn't work. These coyotes/dogs have no fear of humans and are running right up to them, so they're considered a threat. They killed one this morning.

Usually, there's a great uproar when something like this happens. But I haven't heard a peep about this. Coyotes are so successful at adaption that nobody really has a soft spot for them - sort of like pigeons. I'm of two minds - I know that everybody has to eat. But as soon as the coyotes threatens me and mine, it's much harder to be sympathetic. I don't want them to suffer. I just don't want them around.

That's why I like having big brave dogs . . .

I once read a very good book about coyotes and sheep farmers in I believe Montana. Rather than trapping and killing the coyotes, the farmer studied their needs and habits and worked toward coexisting with them. As I recall, he built up their habitat on his land and developed an appreciation of them. I of course forget the name of the book, but I've always had a soft spot in my heart for coyotoes since reading it. We have a den of coyotes down our hill and I love to hear the young pups yipping and the full chorus at night. I've not had any problems with them encroaching and have always had barn cats with no noticeable problem.

Not to say anything negative about the book but I feel that it must have been written by someone in California. I don't know ANY ranchers in MT that would let a person live after writing such a book. The coyote is why ranchers carry rifles in their truck 24/7. I haver never known any traps that can catch a coyote. They use many poisions that I have to treat hunting dogs for when in coyote country. Coyotes are significant consumers of young cattle and when their packs are "healthy" take the entire margin of profit of ranchers feeding on their new borns. I won't even mention the conflict of the wolf herds in Yellowstone and the impact on ranchers.
Now I shall look for that book and meet that rancher. I too would like to see compatibility with carnivors and sheep and calves.

I did a quick look online, and I think the book I remember is "Don Coyote" by Dayton Hyde. If so, I was mistaken on locale -- he is a cattle rancher in Oregon. Same idea though, learning to co-exist with wildlife. It is a very well written book, very non-judgmental as I recall. I'll have to look for it at the library to see if this is in fact the one I am remembering.

beadmom, those are antique Mexican tequila bottles & I sold most of my 3 dozen before moving. But I still have some & will share if you come visit me!

They are lovely and since you live in my state (somewhere) that might be a viable offer!!!!

Ginger

Just give me 3 hours' notice so I can hose out the house.

Don't bother....I raised baby goats in mine...

Someday I might get new carpet, or in true Oregon fashion have the house hauled off and put a new one on.

Ginger

Too funny! I am surrounded by mossy, kudzu-covered-looking trailers that only appear when the leaves fall & you can see past all the rusting cars (neighbor Carol asked, "What do they do, just park them in the bushes when they run out of gas?") ... I assumed that they were all abandoned till winter came & wisps of smoke would curl out of tilting chimneys ...

It's a shame we're at the point that shooting them is the option. As a society we still don't get the spay/neuter idea as well as we should, not just on dogs but on cats too. Our feral cats seem to be a favorite food source. They multiply faster than I can trap and fix. As long as there is an abundant food source we consider appropriate society can ignore coyotes. They don't seem to be afraid of much; I had 4 of them come into the yard late last night when I was putting dogs to bed and advanced instead of running off. They gave no notice before they arrived and were not inclined to leave. They were fairly intent on getting to my dog (rescue Dane with aggression issues) with or without me there. I'm sure that shooting them removes "that" coyote but not the ongoing issue of encroachment - ours and theirs. Wish we could find a better solution for coexistance.

Summerkid -- funny about the cars. Along the Methow River, they apparently just drove them over the bank to use as rip-rap.

I'm just here to state that I know nothing about staghorn ferns, sorry.

I have spent the last two days in the yard and it is almost cleaned-up. Two loads to the recycle so far. It's looking good. Got five wheel barrows of beautiful compost from my composter thats been sitting there about five years. Thousands of red worms in there. Had to move it to make room for the shed/greenhouse.

Here's one way of "co-existing", but it's prohibitively expensive for most ranchers. Nobody wants to have to pay for a fence. We like to think that we "own" the great outdoors, not that we share it.

It used to be that the more successful hunter a coyote or wolf was, the more likely that his offspring would survive. That was the beauty of evolution. Now we kill the smart ones . . .

http://www.coyoteroller.com/see_how_it_works

You know that coyotes, wolves, bear, mountain lion, and dinosaurs lived in downtown Seattle but I think that area is usually cleared of predators of this type as soon as they appear. I remember quite some time ago that West Seattle had a Cougar that they killed because it was a worry to those who lived there. I took them over 3 months to find it. Why are areas where your good meat comes from to be the reservoir of such dear animals. I think wolves would thrive in downtown Seattle, New York, and Los Angeles for that matter. Why don't we place them there and protect them? You have to understand the cost to the consumer for meat if you require 16,000 acres of land to be fenced for coyotes. Not all people are vegan.

Actually, they relocated that cougar, Steve, because it was "appropriately" afraid of humans.

Just reflecting on the sale of DG. No surprise here. I remember when Dave sold it in the first place. I understand why he made the move, and I'm sure it was a nice financial move for him, but it heralded the beginning of the end of the individual's influence over this website. It reminds me a lot of the Heronswood fiasco. Dan's nursery gets larger than he can manage by himself so he sells to Burpee with the promise that... blah blah blah. The rest is history. Without warning, Bye bye Dan. Hello empty shell of a beautiful property just sitting there. The world watches, stunned.

Why would a company want to buy a successful enterprise and get rid of the people who made it successful? I don't know. But it happens every day. I believe they call it Corporate America or some such nonsense. Companies buy other companies and the existing management hits the road. I would truely love to be completely wrong about this. I really, really would. Somebody convince me.

You bit Kathy. Where was the Cougar placed? I know.
Yes the Corporation is the nemesis of the American dream. Even the largest companies with their names on them were concious of what happened with their product. But the tort law made it impossible for private ownership of businesses. My Sister worked for Bloomingdales in NY and they were active in all of what happened in NY and what the impression of their business was. (Miracle on 34th St as example) Now there is nobody responsible for what is produced or what it does to all of us. This I feel is wrong. In veterinary medicine there is now almost all corporate ownership of practices in all large cities and they set the pace of pricing and quality of practice. I shall have nothing to do with any of that!