Question about Schefflera..

I potted up a large clipping of a deep green Scheff that I got from my doctors office, They let me have a large piece of it after my 4th visit, just before sending me to a specialist. I guess they knew I had been envying that gorgeous specimen.

I don't know exactly what it is called, but is looks like the one Tapla posted a pic of in the thread titled "How do you prune a Schefflera?" -- It has been potted for several weeks, it is close to both an east and north facing window... I have kept it watered and have spritzed it morning and night with a water bottle.

It has NEW GROWTH now !!!! Does that mean is has rooted?

If so, I will be so proud of myself. I'm going to learn this gardening stuff yet. I must say that I hope when this plant grows up, it looks as beautiful as Tapla's !!!

Congratulations, if it has new growth it must be happy! Sometimes you can test to see if a plant has rooted is by gently tugging on it, just gently. Usually you will feel a bit of resistance if there are roots in the soil, but that may not be the case with all plants and it might depend on how many roots have sprouted. I have a tendency to lay out a layer of newspaper, then remove the plant to see if any roots have formed.

Good luck with your Scheff ... I hope it has plenty of roots and thrives in it's new home!

I would get a new specialist - they should have given you a piece of the plant after your second visit - no later than the third!!!!

I would sat it has rooted. Strong work! That buds open on a recently potted cutting is no clear indication of roots, but growth from leaf axils (crotches) or other meristematic parts of the plant (like new leaves emerging from the growing tips of branches) is a much stronger indicator.

Please stop the misting. It is far more likely to do harm than good. ;o)

Here's another, almost like the other:

Al

The roots that form on new cuttings are very fragile. Some are so small they are actually microscopic. Obviously, these roots break very easily, and it puts a strain on the cuttings energy reserves when the plant has to lay out additional energy to replace roots broken by wind or tugging on the cutting to ck to see if it has rooted. It also delays the hydraulic hook-up between roots and vascular organs that transport water to the top of the plant, which increases the possibility of myriad fungaluglies destroying the viability of the cutting.

Once you've stuck a cutting, you should be patient & look to signals other than the resistance you get when you tug on a cutting to determine if it has struck (rooted).

Al

Thanks plantladylin, and Tapla (may I call you Al?)

I'm so excited.. It seems to have produced new growth on an leaf axil.

I read somewhere to mist it twice a day...That is NOT good for it? What type of damage might it cause? I guess I need to scrutinize it to be sure it is still healthy as I have been doing that ever since I potted it.

Please do (Al) It's always fun for me to share someone's enthusiasm when they discover something new - especially something like a new skill!

One reason misting can be counterproductive is many fungi that grow on foliage require moist incubation periods of varying lengths. Misting helps provide the moisture and the duration required for the fungi to multiply. It can also spread the fungi from leaf to leaf. Insects and eggs can be spread in the same fashion.

Perhaps the larger question is why do we feel we need to mist? We know it is virtually totally ineffective at raising humidity levels for more than a few minutes at a time. It is more likely to exacerbate necrotic (dead) leaf tips and margins (unless you're using distilled water) because the dissolved salts that accumulate on leaf surfaces when the tap water we (usually) use evaporates tends to pull moisture from leaves (like salt pulls moisture from ham/bacon).

Most people do mist because they feel they are helping reduce burned foliage by raising humidity levels, but we need to look beyond humidity levels for the root cause of this problem. We can usually trace burned foliage straight back to the soil. If we can eliminate operator error (us forgetting to water) and we still have leaf burn, look to either over-watering or a high level of salts in the soil.

Both conditions are usually caused by using heavy soils that drain poorly. Soggy soils kill roots - roots can't move enough water to the top of the plant - leaves show a drought response, even though the roots are swimming in water.

The second possibility - an accumulation of salts in the soil - is usually the result of a heavy soil that drains poorly because you have to water in small sips to prevent the heavy soil from staying wet so long roots rot (see just above). When you water this way, all the salts in the fertilizer solution AND in the tap water (even when you only water, there are dissolved salts in the tap water) accumulate in the soil. As salts accumulate in the soil, it becomes increasingly difficult to impossible for plants to absorb water. The result is dead tissue above the soil because the plant cannot move enough water to keep it hydrated.

Higher humidity levels are only marginally helpful in slowing the tissue death I mentioned, and since misting does so little to raise humidity levels, we can say with a good degree of certainty it is very close to ineffectual.

Al

Al,

You are such a knowledgeable person and such an asset to this site. If you haven't written or considered writing a book you really should!

When reading your posts, some of us feel the technical explanations are way over our heads. I am easily confused. I get confused when my husband tries to explain technical stuff to me and he can't understand why I can't understand his tutorial. I tell him it has something to do with the male vs female brain and the way we process things differently, LOL. Most of the time with whatever I read, I have to go back, read and re-read a few times to understand, and then five minutes later forget what I just read. So, it would be great to have an easy to understand book regarding soil and water for growing container plants. I'd love to have a book right at my fingertips to refer to time and again.


It would be nice to have a Forum here on DG titled: SOIL AND WATER, where all of your generous knowledge could be stored in what's called a sticky at the top of the forum. It would help the novices like me, as well as the more knowledgeable growers as well. After all, soil and water are probably the two most important ingredients to growing healthy, happy plants, and keeping them that way for a long time!

So, I just wanted to say Thank You for sharing your knowledge, and for helping us as we try to become better gardeners!

Lin

What kind words, Lin! Thank YOU very much for taking the time to offer the thank you. I try not to be too technical, but some of the things that pertain to how plants work is technical by nature (and sometimes I forget, too). ;o) It really is a challenge when I say something like "You need to take a close look at your soils if you're having trouble with burned leaves" because most growers don't make a connection between heavy (water-retentive) soils and burned leaves, so I have to find a way to show the connection that can be understood. I make heavy use of analogies and parenthesis (to further explain things) in an attempt to make it easier. BUT - I wish you guys would ask questions if you need clarification or there is something you don't understand.

I really enjoy the idea that something I offer might help whoever's reading it to squeeze a little more satisfaction out of their growing experience or make growing easier. I have 'stickies' on the container gardening forum, but if there is some interest, I could put together something about soil and watering for this forum. Whether or not it becomes a sticky is up to Admin and your suggestions.

If you have a specific problem or question that's buggin', and you think I might be able to help, you can always start a thread and request an answer from me in the thread title so I'll be sure to see it, or just mail me.

Daisy - You DID know I was kidding about changing specialists - right? ;o)

Al

Al, You sound so much like my husband re: "I wish you would ask questions!" LOL, maybe it's a woman thing! You know how guys don't like to ask directions when traveling and getting lost? Well, I guess a lot of us gal's don't like to ask questions sometimes ... me, I like to try things on my own and see if I can figure it out and when I can't, and get frustrated ... THEN I ask questions, and questions and questions ... until I finally GET it. ^_^ My husband teaches in a very technical profession (Aeronautical Science) and tends to think with a technical mind ... and after 40 years of marriage I still get frustrated with him trying to explain something computer or camera related to me!

It's a great idea to have information in a sticky at the top of the Beginner Houseplants Forum too. If someone needed more clarification and you weren't on-line, they could be directed to the sticky info, and if they have specific questions could always d-mail you! Hey, I think it would be good to have some great information regarding soil and water at the top of every plant related forum! ^_^

Thanks again for your input to the threads!

Lin

plantladylin,

He sounded an awful lot like my hubby too. : )

Al, Yes, I knew you were kidding.. but you were right. They should have offered the cutting MUCH sooner. :)

Al, Love the root over rock bonsai! I'm assuming it's one of yours.(?) I too would be interested in learning more about soils and water. I always read your stickys and learned so much from the one about water movement- I believe it was called. You have been a God send for me and my plants. Bless you and thanks so much for your time and patience with us. You are appreciated! Joyce

I was looking at Al's root over rock pic and my son comes up and exclaims "That's beautiful". I had to share. I found Al's plant to be fascinating. My scheff is growing roots up the trunk and I don't know if that's good or bad. I am trying to get together the ingredients you listed in your soil mix. I am not a member yet to be able to read the whole discussions, but maybe some day. Al, do you use finer mixes for rooting?

Great growing Al, that is one amazing Schefflera Bonsai!

Whew! I just got home from an all day trip to Hidden Lake Gardens, where we met with a rep of the national arboretum & talked mainly about how to institute a program to help them decide when to cull problem trees. It was 6 hrs in 45* and horizontal rain, but ya know what? - it was da bomb - a good time .... but the story's too long, so back to the topic. ;o) Plant people are nutts, eh?

Thanks again to all of you - for the very kind words! They are much appreciated. I'm not absolutely sure if it's a good thing or not - sounding like everyone's hubby; but, you guys are really nice, so your hubbies must be nice, so that makes it a compliment - yes? I hope my reasoning is sound. ;o)

Yes, the root over rock is mine - started about 8 years ago from a cutting. It's much larger than in the picture now, where it was 4 or 5 years old. I have 2 or 3 others (scheffs) growing as bonsai, along with about 50 other tropical & subtropical trees/shrubs.

3Js - Any healthy scheff wants to grow the roots you describe that sprout off the trunk. The only thing that prevents them from occurring is low humidity. You can prune them off with no ill effect, or you can allow them to grow downward until they hit the soil, after which they'll lignify (get woody) and become part of the trunk structure as they (and the trunk) fatten. They're commonly referred to as air roots, or areal roots, but the botanical term for them is adventitious roots.

You want to shy away from fine mixes for rooting cuttings. Cuttings root best in damp soil conditions (but not wet) with lots of air in the rooting medium. My favorite for rooting cuttings is a 50/50 mix of screened Turface and chopped sphagnum moss (this is not peat moss - see picture below), but screened perlite + sphagnum moss is excellent, too. The sphagnum moss is superb for many hort applications, including air layering, and has anti fungal properties in addition to stimulating root formation and speeding the rooting process. When you're starting cuttings, you're in a race with fungi. You need to get the roots formed and a connection made with the vascular parts of the plant (the tubes that conduct water) before the fungi can destroy the tissue and make the connection impossible.

The whole moss. Chop it in a blender of food processor:

Al

Thank you, Al. I like the roots so I leave them alone. I have to scout around to find turface. When I saw your soil pic, I wondered if it was kitty litter, but after seeing a discussion in a fig forum on a different garden site, I know it isn't the same :). I guess my biggest concern will be getting the right grade, the #8's or MVP?

If anyone is looking up the sphagnum moss, I would try to make sure it isn't milled. You can always cut bigger bits down to fit your job. I have always used perlite and some kind of pro mix to root in, but you are right, it is a race to get roots before rots. I am just now relearning the value of sphagnum :). It lasts such a long time without breaking down.

Not to get too far off topic ......... but what are you referring to when you say #8's? Screening size or a product I'm not aware of?

You're right about kitty litter. Some is made of bentonite or fired at temperatures too low to make it stable. Some products also contain additional clumping agents (like guar) or perfumes that might pose problems.

Al

screening size, I read that you can find turface (and other names of same) at concrete places. I am going to check the farm store. I'm still trying to figure out where in the middle of nowhere would have it. I know I can get the aquatic, but I don't want to pay for it by the ounce :).

I'll see what I can find out:

I'm back already - ;o)

Try Caudill Seed in Morehead, (877) 775-7333

Or the John Deere Landscapes dealer in Lexington, (859) 269-8803

I don't think you'll find Turface at concrete places. Golf courses use it quite often. Companies that build athletic fields also use it extensively. Let me know if those two places can't get it for you, and I'll try my bonsai contacts in Lexington, if you're willing to travel that far or have someone heading in that direction pick it up for you. BTW - when you talk to the JD dealer, you'll ask for AllSport, which is Turface MVP in different packaging.

Al

Thank you so much!!! I'll try caudill tomorrow. If I have to go to Lexington, it will be closer to Christmas :). Hey, do you think concrete would pose an alkalinity problem for plants laying around on it with long aerial roots, and poking through the pot roots?

Not aged concrete, but fresh concrete (less than a years exposure to the weather) just might ...... kind of like how you want to age hypertufa before you plant in it - or soak it in a vinegar or other slightly acidic solution.

Al

It was exposed for several months before we covered it... Last year the only plants I had on it were in/on plastic bags as a barrier, but this year, I just didn't think about it until the other day (as I sprayed the floor to raise humidity, lol). So it's been poured 1.5 years and covered for about a year. Do you think I should do a vinegar solution at this point?

I just looked up hypertufa, and that is very interesting. Hmmm... a project for another day :)

If you haven't seen any ill effects so far, I wouldn't be to concerned. Watch out for the roots heating up on concrete if it gets direct sun, though. Most roots begin to shut down when soil temps reach 85-90* and by 95*, many roots just don't function at all, function poorly, or begin to die - starting with the finest roots first.

Al

I have had my Scheff for 5 years. It used to be fuller (more bush like). It has always had 3 trunks. I keep it indoors for the most part (it likes to be outside in the spring and summer). A few months ago the leaves started turning brown and falling off (I may have traumatized it with cold temps at end of summer). More recently it has new growth, but leafs continue to fall off at about the same rate (not turning brown). I started adding a few drops of miracle grow to the water when I water it (which I am not very consistant about, note the water globe). Should the water run out the bottow when I water it? I watered it the other day and it didn't run out the bottom. Is it not getting enough water? It is currently in a south facing room, but not in direct light. Should I move it? It is potted in regular potting soil. I love plants and have many throughout my home and yard. My method of trial and error isn't working with this plant and I really need some help. Last night the last leaf fell off the third trunk and it is now bare. Why is this trunk brown? Is it dead? Why are all of the trunks different colors. Any info you can provide would be appreciated. Thank you!

Most of the plant problems occurring now are directly soil related. Most are from over-watering and/or an accumulation of soluble salts in the soil.

My suggestion would be to flush the soil thoroughly the next time it needs water, and then follow some other instructions I can help you with until you can get the plant outside where it can gain some energy so it will survive a repot into an appropriate soil.

I'm going to link you to a thread I wrote about the care of Ficus trees in pots, but scheff culture is pretty close to exactly the same though a scheff will take it a little drier than a Ficus.

Let me know if you are serious about rejuvenating this plant or are just interested in a quick fix. Sorry to be blunt, but there's no sense in wasting both our time. I'll be very happy to give you as much help as I can (and I'm very familiar with this plant), if you're enthusiastic and willing to go to some effort to save it. Sound fair? ;o)

The link: http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1136338/?hl=ficus+containers

Al

I am very serious about restoring this plants health and willing to do whatever it takes. I will remove the water globe and flush the soil when it needs water again. Thanks for your help!

Ok - but it goes beyond that. Here is what I suggest:

* Make SURE there are no insect infestations. Scale, mites, and mealybug are the big 3.
* Get a 1/4" dowel rod from a hardware & sharpen it in a pencil sharpener, then round the very tip, just a little bit. Use it to test your soil for moisture. Toss the globe or use it as a decoration. Push the dowel deep into the soil. If it comes out dark or moist, your plant doesn't need water. Wait to water until the dowel rod comes out clean & dry deep in the pot. A couple of weeks of testing like this will have you watering when the plant needs it & will allow air back into the soil.

* The next time the plant needs watering, flush the soil thoroughly with room temperature water. Saturate the soil and wait a half hour. Then, pour a volume of water equal to the volume of the container through the soil 5-10 times - the more the better.

*After you do that, depot the plant & set it on newspaper over night (or until you're sure the soil is no longer soggy. If a large portion of the soil falls off the roots when you depot - your plant is over-potted. Fill the bottom with soda bottles or bricks & repot the plant - same container is ok, but use a wick. Also, add a lot of perlite to any fresh soil you use. If there are rotted roots, prune them back to sound tissue.

* Melt a hole (about 3/8") through the bottom of the container at the outer edge with a hot screw or nail and push a wick into the hole, but make sure there is soil around the drain hole & that it's not covered by filler material. Do this before you repot - sorry if I got out of sync here for a sec.

* After you repot, secure the plant to the pot so it can't move in relation to the pot. You're going to carry the pot to the sink to water, and you want it secure - see picture below for an idea on how to secure it.

* When you water, water until the soil is saturated & water flows freely from the drain hole(s). When done watering, tilt the container at a steep angle & allow the wick to hang down below the container until water stops dripping from the wick. The hole with the wick should be the lowest part of the container while draining. This will eliminate almost all of any excess water your soil 'wants' to hold onto.

* Never let your pot (or wick) sit in the effluent that comes out the drain when you water. Lift the pot and wick above the saucer or water over the sink.

* The first time your plant needs water after the repot, water with a half recommended strength solution of any 3:1:2 ratio fertilizer. Examples are MG or Peter's 24-8-16, MG 12-4-8, and my favorite, Foliage-Pro 9-3-6.

* Site your plant in the best light you can give it. Keep soil temps at 65 or higher. Wait.

Things move slow at this time of year, so don't expect an abrupt turn-around. This will stop the decline & help your plant get settled so when you get past the spring equinox your plant will be ready to go. You should seriously consider a full repot in Jun or Jul, using a soil whose primary ingredient is not comprised of peat, compost, coir, or other fine particulates. The link I'm supplying is something that every container gardener NEEDS to know if he wants to be on top of his game:

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1073399/

...and here's the picture that might give you an idea of how to secure the tree. Sorry the tree looks a little shabby - it was a tree I had just removed 90% of the roots and at least 75% of the foliage from in a 'makeover'. If you're interested, I can post the photo sequence.

Al

Here's the 'before' pic:

Thank you so much for all of the suggestions. I'm very anxious to get a handle on this. I want to do every thing I can to help it. The plant looked dusty 4 days ago (when I sent the first picture and post) so, I wiped it off with a damp cloth. I wasn't looking for pests at that time and I probably wiped off helpful information. I checked the plant after I read your post this morning. I found one bit of cottony substance and one single strand of web. There are small brown bumps on the trunk (not sure if this is scale or normal as it seems to be everywhere on the trunks). I have posted a picture of the brown spots. There seem to be some syrup looking spots where stems have fallen off. Not all spots where stems have fallen off have this. Also, I have two leaves (both on the mother trunk) that are beginning to turn brown. The brown area on the leaves have some of the syrup looking color on them, they feel thin and wilted. I will post a picture of this. The wooden dowel came out dark all the way through. Looks to me like my Scheff might have Mealy bug and Scale. Let me know what you think. What is the best way to treat these? Should I remove the stems or leaves that are brown? Thank you for all of your help.

Picture of the leafs turning brown.