philosophy 101

You feel valuable and loved. Filled with the moment of warm arms wrapped around your beating heart telling you how you will and have made a difference in her life. Hugs Tills!

You just made me cry, Steve. I am the power house of this family and I do not cry easy. (What is, is what is, deal with it.) Takes alot to make me cry LOL and today was alot. That was the way I was taught by my dad. also he said " if you are going to do something, do it right or don't do it at all" there is a second clause to that but I think DG won't like it.
I need to go to bed, Work Work comes early, if I can sleep LOL

Tills what an amazing thing has happened! I am so happy for you all. This brought tears to my eyes. What a story.

Many of our dads did that Tills. We have to learn to love ourselves despite their rhetoric. Life is valuable and fathers of their generation somehow became worse than their fathers before them. Many others rose above but so many just drank beer and hollered. Sorry you had a similar one to me. I just thank my Creator to have given me value when my father couldn't. I hope you find that value so when you do the wonderful things you do YOU feel value in your self.

Thank goodness my father is the gentlest guy around. A fishin' fool & getting some weird ideas in his old age, but a good man who somehow broke the cycle of alcoholic abuse & raised a very diverse family to the best of his ability.

How wonderful, Tilly! I am so extremely happy for you. You have a lot to look forward to. Hugs Sharon

Oh Tilly, that is such a heartwarming story. Keep us all posted!

One of my big regrets is never knowing my father's family, ie, grandparents, uncles, half-sister, cousins, etc. My mom was 16 when she married my dad, he was killed in an accident on the job when my mom was 7 months pg with me. They were of Indian descent, living in Arkansas. That is all I know. It makes me sad that I didn't try to find them, now they are all probably gone.

Oh my goodness, Tills! That is simply awesome! What a wonderful gift to have found her so close to home again.

Lynn, that is a sad tale, indeed. I wonder if there are still people living? surely an entire family doesn't die out like that. It's a strange feeling to get together with people who are blood relatives but who you don't really know. It certainly gives credence to the 'blood runs thicker than water' idea.

Tills - that is the most wonderful story!! Just wonderful.

And, Pix, I have never been convinced with 'blood thicker than water' - possibly stickier, but I think water has so much more to offer! I've always felt that relationships are made, they aren't genetically programmed. If we go looking for family, it is because we have a curiousity, an openness of mind, perhaps a warmth, that allows us to approach and be approached. That is about an individuals growth. How that growth came about is very much informed by family (although family is not always blood relations) - but it is definately something personal, not carried in the 'blood'.

Sorry to jump in with a negation when I have been so absent - but I feel very strongly that people deserve credit for the relationships they form. It can be effortful!

OHHHH, Mary, how exciting! Blessings to you all as you move forward. What a heart-filling story. I'm just bubbling over with joy for you.
Hope your cold goes away soon.

I agree they must get credit for efforts showed. I'm not talking about relationships, I'm talking about shared mannerisms, expressions, etc, and a feeling of kinship. When my father died many of his brothers, their wives, and my cousins traveled from Texas to attend the funeral. I had no 'relationship' with any of these people having grown up far from them and having had no contact since infancy. I was astounded at how comfortable I felt with them, how much I looked like them, and how many mannerisms and expressions we shared. It made me realize how much I had missed by growing up completely isolated from that side of the family for the most part. Even my dad didn't grow up with his brothers, as he was the youngest of 10 and all except one had already grown and left home by the time he was born. This feeling of 'kinship' is important to many people. It's why some adopted people search for their birth parents, even though they love and are devoted to the parents who raised them and whom they call 'mom' and 'dad'. It gives us a connection to our history on the planet, regardless of whether we form actual relationships with those relatives.

Pixy, Your last statement pretty absolutely sums it up.

My mother abandoned me as a young child, I lived in an orphanage for awhile because my grandma and aunt could no longer care for me, then we reunited because she was remarrying. That was an extremely turbulent marriage and she left us with that monster. He died the year after I graduated from high school. I then moved from Iowa to Washington to be near my sisters, who, because they were still in school, had to move in with her and her newest husband. I left out all of the ugly parts of the story. I could write a book. Anyway, so I have a "normal" mother-daughter relationship? No. Do I hate her for what she did to us? No. She was a 17 year old widow with a baby and no money. Then she "looked for love in all the wrong places", and by the time she was 22, she had 4 daughters, all with different fathers. This was the 1950's, things were different then. I cannot even imagine being in her shoes at the time.
I feel the kinship of some of the shared mannerisms with my mom and sisters, but I do not feel the "family" relationship. Sad, but true. My sisters are alcoholics and drug addicts, I chose a different path in life. I firmly believe that a person can choose their direction in life, not use the excuse that they are a product of their environment and gene pool.

Now, after that lengthy little story, I still have the curiosity to know about my father's family. Do we have any shared mannerisms? Do I look like any of them? It's not so much a desire to form a family relationship, as the need to find the missing link of my connection to my place in the history of this planet.

I guess what I am lamely trying to point out, like Laurie stated, water does have so much more to offer. I prefer to spend my time with friends like Julie and Sharon than with my own family. Thank God for DG to give us the opportunity to make new friends.

Tils, how absolutely wonderful for you!!!! and to find her in KINGSTON-so close, that's just amazing. Sounds like it was meant to be!!! I'm not much of a cryer, but I've got tears welling up for this story.

This is probably super-obvious, but I think if you want this to work in the best possible way for all of you that you need to get her to come clean to her new parents. Her skipping school and being sneaky about it is NOT a good thing!!! You want to be seen as a good influence and a welcome presence by the parents-maybe you should try to contact them yourself and tell them how much it means to you to have her back in your life (and to know that she's got a good new family, etc). Tell them how you raised her as a baby and are overjoyed to find her again and really want to be a part of her life. You've got an honest, good and loving heart-you want those parents to know that about you from the get-go. :)

I also don't have much of a relationship with my Dad's side of the family. While I was very lucky to have an absolutely wonderful father, he died when I was 7. Most of my relatives are back in Minnesota, where my folks are from. So, after my father died, when we went back to visit, my grandmother (my mother's mother-my father's parents died before I was born) had a tendency to make plans for what we would do, where we would go, who we would see-and that tended to leave little to no time for my dad's side of the family. (This was compounded by my mom's never renting a car for herself, usually leaving us dependent for transportation) From the ones I've met, they're wonderful people. Warm, smart, creative, energetic, adventurous, interesting. Unfortunately, all my aunts and uncles have now died, as have some of my cousins. I never developed close relationships with any of them and now I've pretty much lost track of everyone.

edited because it took so long for me to write this I missed Lynn's post, which I now need to read in depth before I can say anything about. All I can say now is that's a heartbreaking story-more than I think I can take in, actually.



This message was edited Sep 15, 2009 12:30 PM

But Pix, I think your trip to Tex. exactly is what I am saying - you went to LOOK for relationship because you wanted to find the connection to your father. You approached with the warm openness of wanting to find a relationship. And you found it. Your father was also part of that circle, it is what informed him and how he was - and you completed the circle. I don't think that had to do with 'blood' but with your dad's parents, your dad, and you. It is what the individuals put into it, not what was bred.

Same with Tills - she accepted this child without prejudice - she just wanted to reach out, and the granddaughter is reaching back. If I have read it right, the adopting family honoured the girls history by giving her her birth families name? there is an awful lot of respect and warmth going on there. Blood or not.

Lynn, You have just gone up 2200 gold stars worth in my respect - you were already right at the top of the ladder, and now I have had to build an extension on to it (not quite up to the guys building, but it'll hold!) Well done you to come through such a devastating start.

I'm tired, I'm going to bed - been a long tough day.

This message was edited Sep 16, 2009 9:04 AM

I am taken aback by these stories. And I am going to call my parents today. My dad's a sweetheart and my mother drives me nuts, but they have always been there for me. There were five kids in my family but my sister and I are the only survivors - two died in a train accident and the other of an illness. So we've had trauma but we're a pretty strong bunch and fairly close. I did miss out on knowing relatives since we were an Air Force family and traveled around a lot. For some reason I feel no urge to find or get to know any of them, with the exception of a cousin that I like very much. My life is full with my 7 kids, 2 daughters-in-law, 7 grandkids, and the families of the daughters-in-law. Throw in a couple of long time serious boyfriends and girlfriends and that's a mob. We all get together often and is it ever fun. When my grand daughter Samantha was 7 she had to do a family tree for school and she was embarrassed because her tree was crazy big! That was two years ago and it still hangs in her room. Boy do I feel lucky after reading some of the posts.

Families! What is normal, anyway???

Tills, now that you've unleashed all these stories and emotions, you had better keep us all posted and let us know how your story is turning out. And now I have tears on my laptop.

I was totally unprepared for the hidden little box we all have in are lives that stays in a sercert little place, You all took me away. WOW

I stayed home today, as I feel like H###.
And have not heard anything as yet, on how the meeting went yesterday. I had 12 people in my poor little house. LOL
I will keep you posted.

You are a great bunch of people, HUGs

Lynn, I'm really touched by your life story. Glad you made it out of the mess. My story would also read like a Peyton Place novel. Some of it I don't even believe and I went through it. Now we just all laugh at ourselves and shake our heads and are grateful most of us are doing okay.

WOW!!! I love you ALL!

Also really sorry for all of you who lost parents at a young age. I can't imagine that. I'm about twenty years younger than my parents and I had my dad until he was 87 and my mom until she was 91. I was so fortunate in that even if they didn't really know how to parent.

I found that morning coffee time was a good time to stroll through my gardens. I could enjoy the beauty, I could look for signs of pests, it's a great way to start your day. Just one thing - be careful not to step into anything icky (like dog poo) because you're not looking at your feet! I can't tell you how many times I did that and we didn't even have a dog!

Hi Karrie20x, Nice to meet you.

You too! I've been a subscriber of Dave's for several years, but I went incognito for awhile. I'm baaaaaaaaack!

Have you been on PNW before? I've been on for almost two years now. Whoa Time flies.

I've been so busy the last few days I haven't kept up, but I had to come here to see my friends on Dave's tonight to get a little uplift from the everyday grind, and look what amazing things have happened!!! The incredible strength of human spirit shines out in all your stories of life, heartbreak and finding our way through. I am in awe, and appreciate the bravery of sharing your stories here.

Tilly, I am so, so happy that you have found your granddaughter again after holding that deep pain of loss in your heart for so many years. She is one lucky girl to have a loving and committed gramma like you. And Lynn, you are such a kind, loving and generous person to have come through such experiences of hurt and abandonment it shows what a fighter for life and light you are. And Susy and Judy, to have lost people so close to you in your family, your father, your siblings when you were so young, it makes my heart ache. And Laurie, you also are a person of conviction, reaching out, even across miles, and caring about people in a genuine way, no wonder you know about the power of reaching out to create family for yourself. If the story about your pa were not so painful to you and to him (in different ways) it could be a story on a soap opera or a twisted attempt at comedy movie. I am amazed. Yet you are a daughter to him despite all that, and I respect you for it. And Willow, you too have been through the proverbial mill in life and you have such a beautiful spirit. And Pixy, having been all over the place all through your childhood to be one who plants and cares for litte tender roots in the ground (people and animals and plants). i am glad you found your Texas family and felt at home with them. And Steve, you are so clearly such a different dad (and fabulous grandpa) than what you grew up with, your care about all living beings, human and otherwise.

I am afraid I'm missing somebody's story. If I have I'll go back and find it when I can. My own family was emotionally close in my childhood but had our issues and difficulties, bad times and good. I am grateful for that so when hard knocks came along later in life I have had that love to draw on.

Lynn, You could write a book. I bet it would be a best seller. If you wanted to go looking for members of your father's family, there could possibly be people who knew thnm who could tell you stories. Don't know if you would want to do that, but maybe something would come from it that you wanted to know about. I hope your sisters someday find their way out of the self destructive life paths they are on. That must hurt, and feel so helpless to see people you care about gone from you in that way.

I'll have to go back and read posts to catch up, but Laurie, you misread my post. I did not travel to Texas to find my family or anything of the sort. I didn't travel there at all. The relatives came up here for the funeral. The point was that I was struck at how much similarity there was in our mannerisms, postures, etc. My father did not grow up with his brothers. They were all away from the home, save one, by the time he was born and he left home at 16 years of age to join the navy. I still have no relationship with any of them and we don't have enough in common for me to try to have one. They went back to Texas and that's all there is. But it did give me a feeling of being a part of my own history on the planet and it showed me where I came from. And perhaps it was comforting to me a the most difficult time in my life to see people who resembled my father and also myself, and reminded me so much of us. If I choose to live differently than they do, and I do choose to do so I assure you, then it does not negate the similarities we share. Just because we have free will does not negate the strength of genetics. And just because we have genetics does not negate the strength of free will. Genetics are the cards we're dealt, but our free will allows us to decide how to play them. That is how children from different families who grow up together all turn out differently. Evidently this concept makes people uncomfortable, and having reread Laurie's post, I see why. Looks like this touches a nerve I didn't mean to touch, Laurie. I'm sorry about that. No one is saying that genetics is destiny, you know. That is obviously not true. I am sorry you are in a situation that causes so much personal pain, but you are facing it like the true woman you are. In the end, you will not regret it.

Lynn, your story does say it all, and the fact that you can understand why your mother acted as she did and not hold it against her speaks volumes for you. I knew I liked you! Yes, you should write a book!

Tills, something I've always believed and this thread bears witness to is that no matter who you meet in your life, or how perfect their lives seem to be, each person carries his/her own personal story that has been, at times, incredibly painful. Sometimes just remembering this helps me understand people's rotten behavior.

Too heavy for me after a day in the office! Here is a photo to make everyone laugh. Imagine what is going on in his little head!

Honestly honestly, it isn't PAIN, it is irritation. Please don't over sympathize with me on this, he is just irritating. It is like auto exhaust when a car drives by, it disperses quickly but is annoying at the time.

The caption I see for Pixy's picture is "I'm going to remember you did this to me". (Is that Skippy?)

I've always wondered how therapists can handle, empathize, and then let go of the painful things they hear on a daily basis.

I've also been struggling with words to respond to everything.

Tils, (hugs) to you as well. Hope you're beating back your bug, and also that you'll have more news for us soon!

Lynn, your story is heartrending and inspiring, too. When I read it, I just keep seeing your home and beautiful gardens in my mind and remembering your hospitality and warmth, how kind and nice a man your DH is, as well as your daughter and friends. I just keep thinking what a beautiful life you've made for yourself despite your beginnings. I'm awed by the strength and determination that shows, and inspired by the life you've created for yourself. Please, if you want to find your father's family, look for them now while there's still some chance siblings or cousins are out there. Your being only 17 years younger means you've still got a decent shot at this-go for it! And, then write that book!

Judi, so sorry to hear about losing your siblings. I can't imagine what that would be like. You're very fortunate to have such a big, close family despite your losses.

And, thanks Holly and Willow for the warm thoughts sent my way-you're very kind. :) It's been my reality so long that it's just a part of me, I don't really know what else to say, and Lynn's story is so much more tragic than mine.

Willow, you are indeed very fortunate to have been able to have such a long time with both parents. My mother turns 80 next week-I'm in my 40's. I didn't tell you this, but I had a hard time reading your thread about your mother this summer because it occurred to me that I will be lucky to have another 10 years with my mother. While she doesn't necessarily make it as easy to be with her as yours did, I'm really not ready to face losing her yet. Your grace and peace in dealing with your loss touched me. I hope I'll be able to be as strong as you were when the time comes.



This message was edited Sep 16, 2009 2:13 AM

Tills, I haven't had a chance yet to take the time to tell you how happy I am for you. Such a fabulous surprise! And to find her so close, with the chance to really get to know her now! WOW!

Reading this group of posts has made me so thankful for how truly blessed my family has been. The strength and spirit of so many of you that have gone through such personal trial and have come out to be such wonderful people is just amazing. I am not comfortable commenting any deeper as we are still dealing with a loss of our own (my Dad), and talking about family brings it immediately too close to the surface. At least you all have made me realize the truth of the old addage about "better to have loved and lost....".

On a brighter note, I agree with Sue about the caption for Pixy's pic...with the addition of "just wait until I get out of this, your favorite shoes are going to get it!"

Hugs to all.

I've been reading through the stories again, and I think it's great that so many people feel telling these personal things. On another thread I revealed something I've told very few people and I can't believe I did that! I have not met any of you in person but now I feel like I know all of you.

I've also been looking at photos of gardens again, and I think Pix's seems exuberant, and the rocks bordering the beds look like they are trying to contain the happy plants. The gardens are all so beautiful. I'm so sorry I missed seeing them in person!

There is always next year, Judi! I think my plants are more exuberant than I am. But yes, this year they've been busting out all over and even the rocks cannnot contain them.
I posted somewhere above my 'impressions' of rarejem and nwmountaingirl's gardens but i can't find it. I'd like to know how accurate I was.

I think these last few days have taken the toll on me. I kid you not!!!
Not only did I find my lost GD on one day. Then was sick too LOL. Got a call next day that my Step-dad was taken to ICU, and may not make it tru the night.

Scramble was made with the family here, (as I can not go but will follow later) my Bro and his DD headed out at 3am. this morning. I had to go to work (no choice) I have no one here to take care of my animals till he gets back. I want to be there so bad but I have no other way. Plus having this bad cold, I don't want to be there Not good.

Got home and talk to my mom, all is well. He is doing better, and she is OK. Alot of family there now, to be with her. And Bro will be there soon.

But the highlight is Shelly (RC) MIA called me, and we just talk and laugh about other things (she knows nothing about this, I did not bring it up) It so brought my spirit up just to talk to a friend.

Got to go to bed now
Hugd to all

Tilly, this is just an awful lot going on at once. No wonder you got sick. Stress and emotional intensity can wear down your immune system.

Tills, take care of yourself. HUGS You are on quite a rollercoaster right now. Prayers for you family.

glad to hear Shelley called. Hope she is okay.

Tills! My goodness you have way too much happening right now. It is probably futile to tell you to take care of yourself and get enough rest. Hugs.

Mary, this may come across wrong, so please don't take it the wrong way. I believe that when something really heavy is or has happened in your life, something almost unbearable to you, God sends you a gift. In your case, it is your newly found granddaughter. Think about it, doesn't it seem like a miracle to have discovered her after all these years, and she lives so close by? That whole story is full of wonderment and joy. God is blessing you.

Pixy, here is my interpretation of your gardens.

You love peace and tranquility. Everything has its place and is in place. You are patient, kind, and motherly, you rule with grace and elegance, but you have an iron fist if needed. If something doesn't work right, you search for solutions to the problem (voles). If it still doesn't work, out it goes (like the rhody). You are not afraid of hard work, in fact, you like the challenge of a new project. You like to do things yourself, it connects you to it (your walls). Sometimes you have a hard time juggling work and play because you have such a big "to do" list. You are creative and artistic (everything in your garden reflects this). You are a highly intelligent woman with many interests, you read books and love to learn new things and ideas. You are a collector. But you don't just pick out a plant because it is pretty, and just pop it in the ground. You know its latin name and how to pronounce it (the latin just runs off your tongue like it's your native language). You know its needs, how big it is going to get, and plant accordingly. Your gardens have a calming flow, they invite you to take a closer look. I see something different every time. Your garden takes on a different look with each season, and you have planned it to take advantage of this. You are generous. How many people have taken home part of your garden? You are patient, you share your time with others, and heaven only knows how precious time is. But you prefer to choose who you share your "free" time with. You are one with nature. Rocks, plants, trees, water, animals, they are your world. Even your "off days" are spent in nature (sailing). You are frugal, you reuse, recycle, DIY. Growing something from a seed still fascinates you and gives you joy, even though it is a lot of work. You are conservative, no fancy Jaguars in your driveway. You do like to push the envelope sometimes. How many Zone 9 or even Zone 10's do you have? You are opinionated, and are not afraid to voice your opinion. I believe you enjoy a good debate.

Oh gosh, the time is getting away from me. I need to get outside and plant!

tils, go easy on yourself. We are all thinking of you. xoxo. L

Thanks you all for the support and all the Hugs, just give me one at a time to deal with Not all a once Gee.

Lynn, I do not take that wrong in any way. I see it in a little differant way as I am of Indian descent I see God in a differant form and worship in a differant way. But it all comes to the same thing really.
Our past spirits are out there and they give you guidance and help along the way as long as you can understand and feel what they are telling you. Hard to explain.
My spirits guide is the Wolf. Cunning and strong, with great wisdom.
Mother Earth, Father Sky, Sister Moon, Brother Wind.

Tills you must meet my dog Kokapelli. I call her Koka. Go to www.indiandogs.com
Look at the 4th photo down, of two dogs together. The brown one lying on the ground is my Koka. Yellow wolf eyes!

I hope you are doing ok with all that's going on. I was thinking about you today.

I have a question for those of you who gave tours of your gardens for the RU. Do the photos of your gardens look like the images you have in your minds? Do you think the photos portray your gardens as you see them? What are your favorite hours to be in your gardens, when the light is just perfect? I'm wondering if we see our gardens differently than others see them.

This message was edited Sep 17, 2009 8:56 PM

This message was edited Sep 18, 2009 9:33 AM

You go first, Portland, even though we have not toured your garden (yet). You ask such thought provoking questions.