Backyard Birds (continued)

Okay

I'm sick of this. The final volume of this thread was moved to the Bird Watching Forum, despite my vocal protestations to Admin. If we can't write about subjects we want to - like CALIFORNIA birds - what the heck is the use of having Regional forums? This is an old thread that was inadvertently reactivated.

Pelle, I have d-mailed you privately, but I will repeat what I said here - you have no business berating people on this forum! Complain to Admin and leave us alone.

Huh, K, so you'd already gone through this whole thing and I'd missed all of the action just because I didn't look in on the bird photos? Somebody please post a list of what we can do on the Ca forum now so that we don't steal anybody else's thunder....or perhaps I'd better check all of the other forums first to see where my comments might belong. Why should we have a California forum, I wonder...maybe we should have to show proof of residency so that anything that happens in Ca stays in Ca.....?

I've got it....we can just overlay a cat on each bird photo and call them 'cat watching photos'...is there a 'cat watching forum'?

he he he ^_^

I vote that there are no more new forums added to DG. Apparently, instead of being able able to gather in one to share, you willhave to go there to share on that particular subject. The new forums then do not seem like a benefit, but rather a punishment.......

Well said, dear lady. I should have had you making arguments to admin for me when they pulled the thread. Mine were obviously not good enough.

Pelletory,

Although I have not been participating in this thread, I have enjoyed reading about all of "our local birds" here in So. Calif. I do not have enough knowledge on birds to even think of going to the Bird Forum unless I need a bird identified.

I was very upset after coming here today to see that you have popped in here to berate us into talking about something in our neck of the woods. When I was a young girl, my parents taught me some very good manners and I can tell you that your post was not very mannerly at all. You came across at the Bird Forum police and in my opinion it was wrong for you to come in here with your holier than thou attitude.

I have been a member here on DG from the very beginning and during the years, if someone did what you have done, they would have been contacted by admin to "cool it" immediately. I guess that since DG has gotten so big now, that they tolerate people like you and I'm sad to see this happen.

Unless you have something nice to say, please do not participate in our forum anymore!!

Donna

I agree with Donna 100%.

Before this turns into a "shoot the messenger" issue, please allow me to gently interject a thought for your consideration.

The threads serve two main purposes:

1) In the here-and-now, they serve as a conduit for an ongoing conversation.
2) Once a thread has faded and people have moved on, it remains as an informative and instructional record of the conversation--basically an "archive."

When you search DG for a particular word or phrase, you may find the results overwhelming, so you limit your searching/browsing to a particular topical forum. For example, if someone is searching for birds, California birds, or brown-headed cowbirds, the first--and possibly only--place they would look would probably be the bird forum. This thread would probably not be picked up in their efforts to locate that information.

So while it may feel more comfortable to discuss anything and everything in your favorite forum (whether that happens to be a regional forum, a chat forum, or a topical forum), it may be a good idea to move some of those threads to a more suitable longterm "home."

To that end, we shuffle around a half-dozen threads a week, on average. Not a huge number, but it's a fairly routine task. When we happen to see an off-topic thread or someone sends us a note and asks us to relocate a thread, we act on it.

We don't send a note first to ask permission. There are two reasons we don't:

From a purely practical standpoint, we don't have any "tickler" reminder system built into our dmails, so we'd have to tie strings to our fingers to remember to check back if we didn't hear back from the person ;o)

The second reason is that we have the responsibility to keep DG tidy and relatively organized for present and future members and visitors. One way we do that is by moving (or in some cases removing) threads. When we move a thread, we usually send a courtesy note after-the-fact, letting the thread starter know their thread was moved, and to where.

We're truly sorry if these moves are upsetting to some members, but it is done in the interests of the entire community. If we allowed people to dig in their heels and insist on keeping threads within their favorite forum, we would have a veritable hodge-podge of subjects in every forum. (Some might argue we have a hodge-podge in some forums already ;o) But we have limited time to spend on this task, and it often takes a lower priority than other things needing our attention.)

It does sound as though we're better off without individual, specific forums, so we can talk amongst people in our georgaphical area about things that apply here without having to go to a different forum for it. We're going to become very fractionalized. I, myself, am interested in the birds that show up in my own area. I would have to wade through a lot of other birds in the birdwatching forum to see the ones that interest me here. Which is what is good about the different regional formats....our gardening is very different here from, say New Jersey and it helps to be talking about plants that grow here, how we garden here. What kinds of birds we have here.......

While I understand your comment Terry, and may not agree with some of it, that's my prerogative, I thank you for the explaination. What I do not understand are the posts of the one that, to put it mildly, butted in here. I find it simply rude and that is a disappointment that it's tolerated. It certainly could have been worded and handled differently. Kind words do not cost much. Yet they accomplish much.

I too agree with Donna 100%.

wcgypsy, I see your point. But on the other hand, part of what makes DG unique is that you can find you have much in common with someone who lives hundreds or thousands of miles from you. Despite the geographical differences, you may find you share common interests in plants, birds, butterflies, etc. - or common foes among certain pests and plant diseases (and trade tips on how to vanquish said foes ;o)

If everyone remained cloistered in their regional forums, there wouldn't be the global sense of "worldwide community" that is one of the more noble hallmarks of the internet.

Calif_Sue, we cross-posted. I'm not condoning or condemning anyone's positions here; my hope is to get everyone to try to see things from different angles--there isn't necessary one right answer to this dilemma.

This message was edited Jul 31, 2009 2:11 PM

I frankly don't see a dilemma. This particular thread is called "Backyard Birds" as in our backyard, as in Our Calif. backyards.
I posted several vacation shots in the Photos Forum, that my my choice because of the folks over there I enjoy sharing pictures with. Will my pictures now be moved to the seldom used Vacations and Travel Forum because they technically belong there?! We have a real nice regional community here that has enjoyed sharing their backyard bird adventures and now someone comes in and says it's wrong to even mention birds, really?!
Often we have fun and post other blooms in our gardens not related to roses in the Roses Forum, is it right for a Perennial or Annuals Forum "honcho' to get riled up & come slap our hands for bringing up a subject not directly related to roses?!
And then strong language is used like "taking a subject (that is not yours)"( huh?!) "see you holding your own 13 threads", "completely off topic for your forum." "harm is when it turns into a 2nd Forum within a Forum." (harm??? for reals, harm??) and actually accuses us of being disrespectful of the Bird Watching forum, wow, I can only shake my head. Not exactly eliciting that "sense of "worldwide community" that is one of the more noble hallmarks of the internet" In fact, I now have a sour taste in my moth regarding the Bird Watching Forum and I like birds! I will live with a sense of 'oh my, maybe I shouldn't post anything about such and such' as it really doesn't belong here. A real pity.

Hello to all my California buds. I've followed this and the Hummingbird threads with glee. They prompted my own backyard "lookouts" for such lovely and/or goofy specimens and I've enjoyed the conversations greatly.

Terry, let me make a suggestion here about moving threads to a 'more appropriate' forum. As I recall (and I don't have time on my lunch hour to check it out) the Hummie threads moved several weeks ago were moved in total, thus losing some potential new California cruisers. In order to capture a Californian's attention relative to a novel thread or topic or forum, or what have you, how about taking the miscreant thread and closing it to further discussion after noting that the topic was moved to the appropriate forum.

For example, take this particular thread. Snag a tail end portion of it beginning at

"SingingWolf
Menifee, CA
(Zone 9a)

July 30, 2009
02:20 PM


copying the content, pasting it in the new forum so as to engage the new forum (and California) readers and remind the current participants of the topic.

Lock it as you do with some of the invitation or descriptive admin posts at the beginning of some of your forums here:

"Terry
Murfreesboro, TN
(Zone 7a)

July 31, 2009
12:08 PM



so that new posts will not be accepted, redirecting potential "California" participants to the new forum location to continue on.

Such a method has, it seems to me without discussion in the moment with others, the greatest potential to keep all parties happily involved in continuing the thread. Make sense? And, oh, BTW, in your typical cut/move/paste you wouldn't have so many boxes to move and take up band width, because all this dialogue about moving wouldn't be involved. Be sure to describe the reason. Moreover, perhaps advising the new forum, ie. "birds," of the earliest portion of the thread, possibly inviting them to search about "California" for other stuff as well.

Hoping to help find a middle ground,
Linda

I posted a photo to the old thread (reactivating said thread), not knowing what had transpired previously regarding this thread, so I'm not aware of exactly how it was handled before. Bearing that in mind, Terry, if it had just been said in one way or another (and maybe it was) that admin was moving it to a more appropriate forum, I don't know that it would have caused such an uproar. Everyone may have had different feelings about it, but it's your job and your business and you can certainly decide as you like. I think the crux of the matter is the officious, rude, proprietary behavior of the person who seemingly owns and patrols the birdwatching forum. If birdwatching were my main thrill in life, I would not frequent that forum.....

I continued to follow and participate when the hummingbird thread was moved to the Birdwatching forum, but I would never have found it or started to share in the discussion if it had begun there in the first place.

I access topic-specific forums when I want to participate in an in-depth discussion, or get advice or information from someone with expertise I don't have. To me, these bird threads we're discussing have been like chatting with my neighbor over the fence, rather than going to a meeting about birdwatching. I watch birds----I'm not a birdwatcher. I know several birdwatchers, and they're WAAAY out of my league.

Each DG forum has its passionate devotees, and over time they form strong bonds with one another. Those of us who do pottery and fired glass campaigned (successfully) for our own forum, in part because we wanted to share technical information that was of no interest or value to participants in other forums. However, if I came upon a thread elsewhere related to what we discuss on that forum, I would merely post a comment that the Clay forum exists, and invite the person to join us. Occasionally we comment about gardening there, too.

When Admin moves threads from one forum to another, it's because part of their charter to keep the site organized. However, I have to question whether it's appropriate for any one of us users to tell others where their posts belong.

Thank you,Ima...very well said......

And I would still like to know what IS appropriate for a regional forum!

I also would never have enjoyed the backyard birds or the hummingbird threads, because I'm not interested in the Bird Forum I am however interested in what my friends are doing in their backyards. And when I read a thread I don't care for, I simply don't read it again. And they are a few I've done that with. The people participating in them are enjoying them, but it's not my cup of tea, so I move on, not yell at them.

Actually, I was afraid our little chats would get us in trouble on the Bird Forum......where we didn't want to be.

There...that's my 2 cents worth.

Alright, someone said my dust bathers may well not be finches, but another bird. I can't find that reference; I've been through the list 4 times from my post to the end and can't find it. Waaaaaaaaa waaaaaaaaaaaaaaa waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!

Please, whoever made mention of it, will you repeat your statement? Please?

Linda

I think it was sis (KaperC) who said it could be sparrows.

{chuckling} thanks, Sally! I'll go look at pics of the two species and then try to catch 'em at it so as to see "who" is making divots in my front yard flooring.

You're the gr8st.

Linda

I only mentioned it because we have tons of finches and I've never seen them do that here. But I was at the vet's office one day looking out the window and saw all these sparrows in the driveway bathing. It was the funniest thing - a whole bunch of them. Could be they all do it. I just wondered.

I have not seen that in a long time..looong time. The bird 'noises' we have here are entertaining. We have one neighbor who's a retired veterinarian and she keeps/ rescues parrots. My other neighbor, who has every critter there is, is now raising Amazon Greens and I enjoy the bird calls around here. Funny, the squawks of chickens annoy me , but I enjoy the shrill, raucous sounds of the parrots. Makes me think I'm at the Wild Aniaml Park...

WC, I awaken each morning to someone moaning outside in front of the house. Can't tell you what it is but it is amusing. Listening to the Mockingbirds in the evening is a HOOT (pun intended). And this morning I watched two Mockers chasing each other about on the roof of the house across the street. Their bouncing about is such fun to watch. I mean . . . they BOUNCE! Too funny. In the evenings the doves walk along the gutters and curbs looking for water to drink.

Last summer I hung some strips of my leftover vine fencing under the eaves so the Star Jasmine could surround a portion of the garage door. The hooks are set up so I can simply drop the hardware to clean up the walls and eaves with the vines absent. I have a little nest up there this year. And I'd hosed it off several weeks ago, so the laying and nestlings are recent. I picked up a little tiny one without feathers off the ground last night, the pavement still damp beneath it, gone, apparently having fallen out of the nest a short time earlier. Always makes me sad to see wildlife not survive.

Pic of the nest attached, although it doesn't tell you much, except that the little mom sure finds tons of branches and grasses to put a nest together. Amazing.

Linda and The MopTops

That's a good idea about the wire...I can use that idea..thanks. I have wire, I have Star Jasmine, ooh, and mandevilla laxa, and ooh ooh ooh...lol...other vines too! I'd be a little worried about who/ what is moaning outisde my door..lol...

Lesson I learned from my son about 25 years ago.....
He found a baby bird that had fallen from a nest somewhere and wanted to put grass in a box and see if we could save it. By then, even 25 years ago, I was already quite hardened to the ways of the world (he was 11) and told him it would not survive, but yes, we'd put it in a shoebox in his room for the night. Well, the next morning it was still alive, so we took one of the plastic strawberry baskets and put some grass in it and set it in a pomegranate tree by the house. The mom and pop bird found the baby, continued to feed it, it fell out of its 'nest' two more times and we put it back in each time. They raised the baby and he flew away. I'm by now much more hardened to the ways of the world, but I try to not give up hope now and I can still say 'maybe"....

Good story, Sherry. Yes, I would worry about that moaning, too! Do you think it's a person or possibly those silly doves and their hooting. DH woke up to a raspy noise one morning and after a while I realized it was one of the noises the doves make. I also hear a sort of clicking at night, which I assume must be a possum or coon. I don't want to know. lol

Birds are magical with their nest building, aren't they? Those hummer nests really take the cake, though, being so tiny and tightly woven.

Is the clicking from the barn owls? We get the clicking and the screeching.....

We haven't seen an owl around here for several years, though we will hear one once in a while. No screeching, just hooting. I tend to think the noise I hear is from an animal, since it is near the bedroom window and we often hear scuffling out there.

We haven't seen an owl around here for several years, though we will hear one once in a while. No screeching, just hooting. I tend to think the noise I hear is from an animal, since it is near the bedroom window and we often hear scuffling out there.

SW has burrowing owls - isn't that cool?

I know where some of the nesting material comes from. Those straw type liners in hanging baskets. I have one that is full of holes. LOL

And have you ever seen them go after a hank of spanish moss?

Yes, same result, shredded mess on the ground. But cleaned up neatly later. I sent you an email.

Wow, I don't check in for a couple of days, and I get way out of touch. I am confused at the debate.
Pelletory, it was an honest mistake, and to be fair, we have many birds that overwinter here. CA isn't like back east at all.
I was upset that my hummer adventure thread was moved without prior notification, but decided to go with the flow. Our backyard bird thread was amusing and about what was going on in our specific geographic area.
It was just chatting over the fence, and no harm was meant.
Thing is, those two threads were among the most popular threads on the CA forum. We have a very unique region, and I can also understand why Admin, would like to have them in the birdwatching forum. The next thread I start, will be sure to have CA Hummingbird Adventures in the title. I can't believe how many hummer threads are going right now.
I don't look at them, mainly because I don't have the time. Which is why when I ignorantly started my thread in the CA forum, it was about what was happening here. I never expected it to become a problem, just a daily diary if you will, on my hummer friends behavior. We've always tried to keep it friendly and fun, and anyone from anywhere is always welcome to post their stories or photos. I've kept to that philosophy on the Birdwatching forum.
I'm sorry you were offended, Pelle. I have admired your birding photos, many times. We aren't as serious about birding as you are, and didn't mean to step on your toes.
I think that Twincol had some excellent advice on how to handle this type of situation in the future. I hope that it is taken to heart. Right now several of my best friends are thinking about dropping their DG subscriptions because of stuff like this. I also think that instead of posting things which can be taken in the wrong way, it might be a better idea to do what I was taught to do as a child.
First you go to to the offending party. If no resolution can be made in private, then it would go to a councilor or mediator, which according to DG's charter would be Admin. In Native American Indian tribes, it would go to the tribal council and a decision would be made, after all concerned would have a chance to speak their mind/heart, then the tribal counselors would make their decision. Usually what is the best for the future generations. Took the long view, they did.
I've had good experiences with most of the Administrators I've come into contact with here at DG. I truly believe that they do their best. However, there are times when some of them have come off with poor attitudes and have been hostile when asked the simplest question. I do not mean any disrespect, I appreciate Terry taking the time to explain why threads may be moved. Can't tell you how patient JoanMN was with me when I first joined. Dave himself has been most kind, too.
Occasional conflicts are bound to occur, but please think about talking to each other in private before posting negative comments on any forum. People really do care as you can see from the furor caused by an innocent mistake.
As I said, when informed of the change of forums, I talked it over with a couple of good friends, I prayed about it, I asked myself what my Dad would have done, and I slept on it. The next morning my attitude was, "Well, I guess my backyard just got bigger". I'm going with it in the interests of keeping the peace. My friends know where to find me. I doubt very many new people will join in because of the sheer numbers of hummer threads. That's okay too. It's all good.

Honestly, Terry, you should take Twincols' suggestions to the rest of admin, and see if it's doable.

Pelle, I understand where you are coming from, am just surprised that you weren't as tactful and diplomatic as I know you usually are. My bad too. I posted to this thread without thinking about it. None of us meant to offend you, specifically, or even the birdwatching forum in general.

I've got to pray and sleep on this. I am offended, on one level, mostly because a lot of disrespectful things were said about the CA Forum and the people here. I am also offended that just because we want to chat about birds we get pigeon holed. I really have to think on this one.
Troubled, in heart over this one.
May we all think on this one.
Walk In Beauty!
SingingWolf

SingingWolf. I love you. Sharon Moon Flower, Las Vegas. That is my new name and I am on the war path. But this too will pass. Must have been a bad day some where. All the terrible things going on in the US and the world, with all the unemployment, homeless children, businesses going out of business that we have personally used for many years and now my favorite nursery in Las Vegas is closing. Who should care where we post our photos and comments regarding our wonderful Southern California, and Southern Nevada mundane birds that we think are beautiful. I do not get it but there are a lot of things I do not get. Take care and do not dare to leave us. We need your knowledge and joy on a daily basis.

This is a hardy hibiscus. Loves the desert heat and can take freezing. We got down to 25 degrees two years ago and it did not effect it. The blooms are more than 10 inches across and come in pink, red and a mild yellow. I have the white, I have ordered the red and Sharron in NC is sending me seed for the Texas Star which is a very deep rose pink. I have planted seeds about 10 days ago. I have over 100 seeds but I am still learning how to make them germinate. They are very hard seeds. I have been given three different methods to try. If the first ones do not germinate, I will move to them second method. Anyone on this thread have a great method to get very hard shell seeds germinate. Before anyone gets upset, I already went to that thread and got little information., .

SK, I have not done this, but I have read that soaking hard- to- germinate seed overnight in 1 oz of h2o2 to a pint of water will help.

Another method is scarifying the seed with a knife to break the covering.

OK smarty, what is h202. I was a top saleswoman of mortgages, not a chemist. Are you from New Jersey???? LOL. I would guess Peroxide but that is only a guess. I signed up for chemistry and walked in the first day, saw the charts on the wall and knew I was way over my head. I was an average student, did not go to college because in my day, the boys, my brothers had to go to college. God knew what he was doing. If I had gone to college, I would have been a teacher, probably had a least 5 kids. Because I did not go to college, I tried to be a "Secretary". Did not work. I hated taking orders and being blamed for things I did not do from male idiots. I started in the mortgage banking business in Las Vegas in 1974 when there were 7 loan officers. Six males and "Mother Winter". All my Realtors were older women at least 15 years older than me and the "Boys:" did not know what hit them. I still laugh looking back. It is a long story. Maybe at a round up...It was 108 today. Next week we are going into double digit. Thank you Lord. We are going to Maui for two weeks. Maybe I can post Birds from Maui on the Bird Thread. Take care everyone and be safe.

Who need chemistry when you have Google and Wiki?! ^_^
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_peroxide