CA friends...I AM SO SAD!!!!!

Kind of makes you wonder how it ever propagates itself in the wild! LOL

No, it's almost as bad as Matilija poppies! I really wonder how the Toyon seeds would do with winter sowing, though. And I still don't understand why we don't get seedlings - we took a count the other day and have seven of them in the garden - counting the huge one on the "back 40" that we never visit anymore.

Edited to add: That's right, ecrane!

This message was edited Jun 15, 2009 9:35 PM

OK, I had to go looking some more and found this: http://www.fs.fed.us/database/feis/plants/shrub/hetarb/all.html

This sounds not so daunting and also explains the lack of seedlings. When I get a chance, I'll go down to the forbidden jungle and see if there are any seedlings under the big mama down there. A landscaper told us it was the largest one he's seen on private property, so it must be old.

Don't give up hope, Roberta! I'll get some seeds for you in the Fall.

Oh, KC, keep us posted. I'm thinking . . . lazy me . . . just steal one of those little self-propagated seedlings from under the canopy of the mother plant. Boy, I sure admire your patience, KC, thinking of doin' it yourself.

I get seedlings from my toyons, though certainly not many at all. I find them in the leaf litter beneath the trees/ shrubs in one area that's shaded, but not along the drive where they gets less water.

Well, I'll definitely have to check them all out, then. Might not have to go down into no man's land, although I was going to look for pom seedlings, too.

I have a free 5-gallon eucalyptus nicholii in a nursery pot you can have if you want to give it a good home. (You'd have to come and get it--I'm in Orange County. Maybe we could meet somewhere in the middle, say, around Pendleton.) I bought it (I have 3 others in the ground) thinking I had a place for it, but it turns out I don't. It's very healthy. I love these trees.

Some people say they can't garden under eucs, but I don't have a problem.

I also have several lyonothamnus (in the ground--not just sitting around, unfortunately). A lovely evergreen native tree. Only problem is they're hard to find any bigger than 3 or 4 feet tall.

I also like callistemon viminalis (weeping bottlebrush), also evergreen, but it's very messy. Although the hummers don't mind the messiness, my (suburban) neighbors are ready to drop a bomb on it. In a more rural setting, it'd probably be a great tree.

I'm going to try an include a picture of one of my three euc nicholiis. I've never done this before, so I don't know if it'll work. If this works, it has an open weeping habit and reaches to the top of the peak of the house. Roots aren't a problem. Very pretty.

Thanks for the offer Surfcity, I am not allowed to plant eucalyptus up there anymore...

Kathleen, what is CNPS? I'm figuring a botanical garden but I can't connect the dots, lol!

Sorry, Rob, CNPS is California Native Plant Society. http://www.cnpssd.org/
Their Fall sale is held at Balboa Park around October.

Surf, we love our Lyonothamnus (Catalina Ironwood) trees, too. No fuss, no muss, no allergies, lovely green. We planted a line of them to screen one side of our property and they are growing quickly.

Oh yeah! I have that on my calendar!

Oh...I love nicky eucs...wish I were closer, though I have trouble finding room for more trees anyway. Came home from Julian this afternoon to find a phone message waiting from a 'forester' for Davey Tree. Excuse me, is this an oxymoron? Does he have a degree in trees? In any case, he thinks I might like to think about them taking out our eucs along the back property line "at no charge" to us. Since SDG&E is pushing the issue of taking out any trees close to their lines. As I understand it, one of the bad fires started down here was not due to trees hitting the line, but to a bare line that birds were getting 'fried' on...said bare line they ignored even after a resident called and called them...In their defense, they say he never called them. I know who I believe. For those farther north who don't know the area, Scripps Ranch is known for the eucalyptus groves there and, duh, that's why it's a desireable area. Recently 'they' went in and took out a LOT of trees and the residents were up in arms about it, but what's done is done. As it is now, as soon as we get Santa Ana winds of a certain velocity, SDG&E is going to cut power from Fallbrook to San Diego. It is a problem, but given that 'they' would like to take out every standing tree, I don't think I can live where there are no trees.
This, unfortunately came after an annoying morning at Bank of America to straighten out two accounts where they]'ve mysteriously started charging service charges of $10 that should have no service charges on them. The person who took care of this admitted that they're getting a lot of angry people with the same problem and the fault seems to lie with the fact that, quarterly, accounts are being 'recoded' resulting in this happening. This apparently can happen over and over again. So, if you have a B o A account, watch your statements to make sure your account is not 'recoded' and charging you a service charge that wasn't there before and possibly shouldn't be now. They've recently upped the minimum balance on a checking account to $1,500 instead of the previous $1,000 to avoid monthly service charges. If you have automatic deposits there should be no monthly service charge...if you have a mortgage with them, there should be no service charge. Call me cynical, but I've come to expect every institution to keep adding charges if they can get away with it and nobody calls them on it......and to do it 'quarterly' seems to me to make it all the more possible for some to not notice the charge added. Now, I've griped and I need a pizza at the very least...LOL...I left a message for the 'forester' and perhaps it's just as well that he was not there when I called.....

Thanks for the 411.
WIB,
SW

I understand the issues about the fire dangers, but I went out and counted, and quit at 110...we have over 110 trees on our property and between this property and the piece across the drive that we kept when we did a boundary adjustment, it's taken 26 years to get those trees to size to enjoy the property and not feel like my neighbors who apparently have always lived in apartments or have a scorched earth mentality. In those years, I think our society has been busy breeding/ creating wacko arsonists while I've been planting trees. May be time to leave for sure. We need trees and if I let SDG&E and the fire dept have their way, every tree would go......I think I'll probably be fuming all evening.......but I will shut up now.....

Much as I dislike eucs, it would be criminal to take out all those trees. I understand the fire danger, too, but there are other things that can be done. And BTW, why don't they start a replacement program for people who agree - take out some trees, put some new ones in. I'm sure there are lots of people who would allow that. Now our eucs are in a spot where nobody enjoys them anyway, so they could take those out. We worry about them breaking in storms because we have neighbors that would suffer the damage, not us. SDG&E is a bully and stupid to boot. There, that's MY rant.

KC, LOL! You go! You tell'em!

Our eucs were planted years ago because the property running behind us from up the hill is 15 acres that was orange grove and the owner elderly, across the canyon is a hillside that was also groves and beautiful with an elderly couple on it...I figured that we'd need to protect our view from future development and the orange grove was then later cut down and likewise the groves on the hillside across the canyon. It now has a big two story white elephant sitting on several acres of dead brown weeds, the other property has been acquired by Fallbrook Winery and while the vineyard is better than a dead, barren hillside, it still is not beautiful as the trees were. I'd rather have something other than the eucs there, but trees take a loooong time to grow and that's the reason I planted them 20 some years ago. There are two Canary Pines there also, but will take a long time to fill out and the other young ones will take years to grow. I think what makes me so mad is the bully aspect and after spending time tonight online I see that SDG&E has consistently gone in and done what they want and when sued, they win the case. I'm glad that we've just finished putting in gates across the front drive and fencing and gates across the back drive also. Tomorrow, 'No Trespassing' signs go up. I hadn't realized until checking online tonight that the PUC's final report shows that SDG&E had 4 warnings (starting 3 hours before the fire started) that there was something wrong with the Witch Creek line that started that fire and they ignored them all until finally de-powering that line...4 hours after the fire started. Two people killed, 45 firefighters injured, thousands of homes lost...they darn well should be sued. The Rice Canyon fire was started by a tree limb falling on a power conductor...Davey told them earlier that the tree should be trimmed within 3 months and that was ignored. We have one tree that leans toward the lines across the back road...that one they can cut back, but we don't think any of the others show any potential for danger. I just really didn't like the guy's message that SDG&E is being "very aggressive" about cutting trees. As it currently stands, they can cut anything within a 10 ft radius of the line, but they're asking for approval to be able to cut within 50 ft. I have mixed feelings about the whole thing...

This message was edited Jun 16, 2009 10:17 PM

Honey, I called the cops and filed a trespassing report because those fools who work on the tree trimming around the power lines (in Riverside County) had taken the hinges off my gate and drove their truck onto my property and were trimming my California Live Oak trees. Some of which weren't even near their lines.
Why don't they just bury the lines instead of chopping up our landscapes. Around here the phone co. buries it's lines so why can't the power Co do something similar? I've always wondered. Now I see their truck and I go watch them until they leave. Irks me to no end that they steal my tree trimmings and mulch them or use them for fire wood.
We have Euc's too, and they can be a real problem in a fire, and afterwards too. I know at least one firefighter who had to take a desk job, because of having developed breathing problems after working that last huge fire down your way a few years back. So many Eucs in the area created some kind of toxin in the smoke. It was really hard and to this day she can't be around Euc smoke.
WC, if it was me I'd tell that guy that he can take the memo telling him to call you, fold into many sharp corners, and stick it where the sun don't shine. Don't let them take your trees away!
You go girl!
Now breath, and remember that you are dealing with brainless beaurocrats, they are so limited, you should feel pity for them. Not anger. BTW, they didn't win their suit about running the power lines across NAI Tribal lands. Do we feel better yet?
Walk In Beauty!
SW

After wrestling with it all night, I think it's probably best if we top the trees to less than half their height. These are 60 ft trees and it will not be good for the trees and the resulting growth will be weaker, etc....however, I do not want them gone and though we see no danger to the power lines now, in other places, I have seen entire eucs toppled after saturated ground and high winds. So, in all good conscience, even though I do not like SDG&E, or their high-handed attitude, I would not want to be the possible cause of another fire like that destroying homes, wildlife and people. I also think the lines should be underground and I'm sure they don't want to pay for that, but if it costs them billions in lawsuits, perhaps it will look more cost effective......and I'm sure the cost would / could be passed on to the consumer.

When compared to the costs in life and property due to the fires, I also don't understand why they aren't required to move lines underground - at the very least to new construction. The fires will never go away. We need to live with them and that means changing the way things are done - and it should not be only the residents' responsibility, but a joint effort.

By the time I've reached this age, I've already dealt with so many inequities, injustices and things that make you want to beat your head against a wall that I'm already primed and reach flashpoint too easily. My first reaction is to get up on my toes, in 'their' face, and yell at them (pretty picture, huh?) I'm trying to remember to incorporate into my life the idea that I can immediately just say, "Let me get back to you on that...." and give myself a day to deal with it before I respond. Preferably by getting in the car, putting the windows down, letting the wind blow through my hair and driving up the coast while I think about 'it'....Ommmmm.....

Yup, when you get to a certain stage in life, you got stop, take a deep breath. Then I talk to trusted friends, and I pray on my problem, then I sleep on it and see if I feel the same way the next day. I let the Creator guide me, because I have a volatile temper these days. Best to let some things just go. Others you got to take a stand on.
Not having been to your place, wcgypsy, I empathize with the struggle this decision has been for you. With any luck, the trees you feel need trimming will bush out and provide more privacy.
Thinking of others and the consequences of inaction, in these circumstances is a very responsible and caring thing to do.
May you continue to Walk In Beauty!
SW

The only time power lines will be undergrounded is when there is new development (at least within the City of San Diego). The City will require the developer to pay for all the costs....other than that, we have to keep looking at those ugly lines everywhere!

Seems like all you guys (and gals) have acres and acres of land to plant stuff on. *Sigh.*

I know the whole euc thing is very "controversial", but I think on a little ol' teensy weensy, suburban, big-as-a-postage-stamp plot like I've got, they're okay in certain cases. But anyway, do you all think I should start a thread offering my poor orphan euc to someone who would want it--and not just throw it in their compost bin ( I don't have room for a compost bin, by the way)?

You could post it on the plant trading forum, I suppose. I've seen free stuff on offer there before - but I don't know how many California members frequent it. Did you make a separate post on this forum, BTW?

I have allergies or I'd offer it a home. Could you donate it to a local park?
WIB!
SW

I cannot believe that you have no takers for the nicky...they're such pretty trees, and the scent!

Thanks for the suggestion, KaperC. I put it on the plant trading forum. No, I didn't make a separate post about the euc (I don't think,anyway) on this forum. Should I? (I'm new to being a paid subscriber, so I didn't want to "blow" in uninvited.)

If I don't have any takers for it on the trading forum, I'll look into giving it away to the city, or maybe a tree planting group. That's a great idea, SW.

Yeah, wcgypsy, I can't believe noone wants my pretty little tree. Poor thing.

Definitely post it here, Surf! There are lots of CA members we never hear from, but they might watch the forum.

Good news, guys!

I contacted a local tree planting group and they are happy to use my nicky! Ah, to think that it will be used to beautify my own city...and I can go and visit it any time I want! They're going to put it in a section called the "urban forest".

Woohoo!

Yes, definitely rewarding, huh?

Congrats! I love it when a tree finds a good home. I plan on seeding my valley with oaks. Of course I'm not going to tell them, I'll just plant a lot of acorns and we'll see what sprouts. LOL!
So happy you'll still be able to visit your tree. : )
WIB!
SW

that is great news!

SW, I know you have native oaks on your property. I would love to hear if you get any acorns to grow. As a caltrans landscape leadworker, in the toll roads of OC, we would get lists of what was planted by the contractors before we took over the area. The oaks were always planted as acorns...I never saw a sprout in the 7 1/2 years I worked that area. The only trees that thrived on artificial watering ,or without any water, were calif. peppers. The catalina ironwood were touchy about water, as were the ceanothus, and most of the so called natives. I really believe the oaks should be cherished, as they are getting scarce, and are hard to grow.I'm so glad that you protect and love your big oak tree.
Carol

Carol, I have several seedlings growing in my flowerbed from a tree across the street from me. Can't tell you at this moment if the tree is a native oak, tho. Can tell you that it would have taken a squirrel bringing it over here for it to be here. Perhaps the secret is squirrels who plant them at the requisite depth for them to thrive, eh? [chuckling]

Linda

We get lots of oak seedlings on our property, but I've not tried germinating any...just let nature do it.

Not just her, but all of them. EB#1 and I have been successful in getting acorns to grow, they do need the right conditions. We've successfully and unintentionally had volunteer oak seedlings start up in the Monterrey Pines we grow for the choose and cut market. We harvest the pine and from there on, the oak is allowed to grow. I should go find those photos I took last fall that showed them.
I have one in a 10 gallon pot. Last year, ('cause I missed this years sale), at the UC Riverside Botanical Garden sale they did have CA Live Oaks that they had grown. I haven't had a good crop of acorns for the last few years. I plan on trying to propagate more of them. Anyone who wants to is allowed to gather the acorn seed and plant them.
They do need water, but I try to mimic their normal watering system for the ones in the pots. I rely on the winter rains to start the acorn, then I might water once a month and ignore them, and it seems to be essential that for the first few years that they have shade too. I have one that volunteered to grow right by my front gate. That one and the ones growing among the Christmas Trees usually get watered at least once a week. They are getting pretty tall, as the guys who trim the Christmas Trees have been judiciously trimming off the lower branches.
Eventually, I will take out those poplars, and the fence and the oak will shade the front of our house. The oaks send their taproot deep fast, so it is best to plant in 10 gal pot, or as you did working for Cal Trans, plant the acorn. Plant several. Oh, I plant the whole pot after cutting holes/slits in the sides and bottoms. This doesn't disturb the rootball, and allows the roots to find their own way out. Best to do this before they get root bound. Seems like the roots are very sensitive to dry air. The few times I tried to transplant even small seedlings weren't successful. Guess I'd need a really wet year for that to work.
The other thing is to plant them deep if you are direct sowing at least a couple of inches. How deep did you plant the acorns for Cal Trans, Carol?
Oaks when left to their own devices, tend to send up seedlings at the outer edge of the canopy of the parent tree. It is my hope to donate some that I grow to my local parks. When they told us that we had to pay for landscaping along a road that is the boundary of one side of our farm, we told them as long as we could plant what we wanted we'd do the landscaping. I'm hoping to start seedlings for that too. Just hard to tell when I'm gonna need them with the economy the way it is. Don't think they are going to widen the road for a while. Sigh, still waiting for my fire hydrant that we already paid for. Sigh. : (
The one in the pot, I have to find a place for. I also have one that was planted in Memory of Lori Piestewa. (Google her.) It should have gone to the VA Hospital in La Jolla, but their landscaping plans changed.
When at Lori's Honoring Ceremony at the VA I promised her family I would plant an oak in her memory. The VA said they wanted it for the area they had set aside for NAI Veterans to do spiritual and healing ceremonies.
A Cahuilla, Elder who was there at the Honoring Ceremony, told me that she remembered as a little girl going with the women in her family to the very land that the VA Hosp. sits on today, and gathering their mainstay of their diet. Acorns. She told me how the women would gather and make a social ocassion out of it. She remembered that the kids would climb the trees and shake down acorns that were collected on woven mats the women had placed underneath. They all helped each other, and there was a lot of laughter. She said that they also had their metates and manos stored there. It was a much loved grove of native California Coastal Live Oaks.
I inferred that most of the men would be out hunting small game. They didn't live there, but lived nearby. She was very happy that at least one oak would be living there again.
Well, you know how the gov. is. The administration changes, people forget or retire, things happen.
So I planted Lori's tree in Sweetwater Creek here on the farm. It is in a brushy area kind of on the slope, but it is a very happy tree and grows strong and true, just like her name sake. I should write her family and send them a photo of it. I have it growing right across the creek from where on occasion sweat lodge is held. : )
Ummm, let me off this soap box, and get back on topic, (Sorry rob). The elderberries are fruiting. Will take photos and make raisins out of them. We'll both see if we can get them to grow. I guess I don't see seedlings because the fruit is too popular and it's too dry for them to sprout. Most plants need some moisture to grow. LOL! After established though, they are really drought tolerant. I wish I had more of them. So I'm off to collect ripe elderberries just for your slope Rob. : )
WIB,
SingingWolf

Edited to say, that's the best way to grow them KC. : )
And I really hate pepper trees, and not too wild about euc's but willing to tolerate them. Hope to replace them someday with oak lined road.



This message was edited Jun 26, 2009 6:15 PM

SW, Caltrans doesn't do much new plantings. They contract it out, then after a 2 or 3 year "plant establishment" period, they take over, so I have no idea how those acorns were planted, or if they had irrigation. Most of the " natural "areas get grossly overwatered. Oh well, I'm retired now! That was some interesting history about the local indians. I think the family would appreciate a letter and pictures.
Carol

Interesting post, SW. I do know about Lori Piestewa and I'm surprised you even got close to getting the VA to accept a tree. Guess we never get anywhere until we ask, huh?

Just one clarification in all this, there is no such thing as a California pepper tree - they are from Brazil, I believe, and have no place in our ecology - just another pest, though quite pretty when you see a big one (Mission San Luis Rey comes to mind).

.. ugh we have a huge one - half on our property line, they popped the fence out into our yard as to not chop it down when they built our house.... it is so darn messy! Mostly I'm bugged by it because it hangs over into our yard so much, and i'd rather plant a different type (or two) of tree there.

Growing up, Gma had one out back the house, they lived in San Fernando. It had a crevice or what we called a cave that was a favorite hiding place for all of us kids. One day the tree was chopped down, and a flood of cockroaches came out.
They are really messy trees, I seem to have developed allergies to them, and they aren't native. You are dead on KC about the Padres bringing them into the country. There are a few up the hill on the corner.
KC, our family motto is, "It never hurts to ask". Depends on who you ask and when you ask. I will follow up with a letter to the family. I have friends who can hand deliver it to them.
I've seen the big Pepper Tree at Mission San Luis Rey, and believe that one belongs there now. I just get creeped out by them now. Ugh cockroaches! Never saw any as a kid, but they used to drive G.ma nuts, because she kept a clean house!
Smiling and reminiscing.
Rats! I forgot to take photos of the elderberries. On the way out the door, with camera in hand, maybe I can sneak up on some birds too! : )
WIB,
SW