WS#4

Sorry, Karen, didn't mean to be offensive; I just thought we were talking about nb's list there.

Also, I don't mean to be pedantic and I sure don't mean to make anything too complicated or not fun. For me, nothing is fun if I don't understand it, and I always do think that, without getting too stressed about it, it's always good to understand some basics. I think gardening is a lot like any other "art"; you'll never really do as well as you could or be as creative as you might without understanding the basics.

Gaillardia, by the way, is an annual.

I only have a few "jugs", and I have used the few "twist ties" I could find to keep them closed. Just can't seem to find "twist ties" as an item sold separately from plastic baggies here! I like having them closed so that I can then pick them up by the handles. If I left them "unsealed" like Neal is doing, I know what would happen: I'd grab a couple by their handles, pick them up, and have dirt, seeds and seedlings all over the place!
1lisac, I only have experience with Flanders Poppies, and it is pretty hard to kill those. I'm going to try some other poppies later in the week.

I believe that some gaillardias are annual, but some are perennial. I've only grown The Goblin and Burgundy types and they are short lived perennials for me (about 2 years). The information in plantfiles, and some others, say Gaillardia Dazzler is perennial in zones 3-8. I'm planning to try Arizona Sun this year.

Gaillardias like well drained soil, don't take much to winter wet. Hence the problem with long term survival in my clay. No matter how much compost I add, it's still basically clay, wet all winter.

Currently we have a fresh 6" of snow, which just turned to sleet/ice in the past hour. Supposed to be 13" total before the storm ends.

Karen

Karen, I'm not so sure about "Dazzler". I notice that some seed sources list it as Gaillardia pulchella, while others list it as Gaillardia grandiflora (a hybrid from Gaillardia pulchella). Both are technically perennials, but usually so short-lived as to be classed as annuals (unlike the other parent of Gaillardia grandiflora, Gaillardia aristata which, as a Northern Plains native is generally considered a true perennial.

"Arizona Sun", is supposedly Gaillardia aristata, so it should last for you. Unfortunately, you are too far to the east to benefit from the prairie soils in which this species is native, but I'll bet that if you WS the seeds and then plant the seedlings in holes about the size of a normal bucket which you augment with good compost or potting soil, they will establish themselves pretty well and then continue. I should think that if you can grow a lawn, you can keep these little flowers growing.

I admit to not being a real fan of Gaillardias. They aren't big enough, unlike Rudbeckias & Echinaceas, to be real "bouquet" flowers, and they all behave like annuals here, making them more trouble than they are worth.

Oh, that sounds like "terrible weather"!!! Hope you don't have too many problems as a result!

Jim

My first 'Goblins' lasted 4 years and they were a delight, blooming at different times of the summer depending on light conditions. I'm growing them again this year.

I just received seeds of Rudbeckia `Cherry Brandy' which will be WS'd next weekend, along with some other seeds and a few veggies and annuals. Time is running out!

I'm not big on the yellows and oranges of a lot of the rudbeckias, but that 'cherry brandy' is beautiful. I missed out on those in the piggy swap. Maybe I can get some in the next go round. Hemo, could you save me some from your flowers if they do well?

Tonya

Tonya: I'll be glad to. Don't know if they will come true, but it's worth a shot. I'll put this in my trade tracker right now.

Angie

Hhhmmm. Don't know if I love them or hate them! That is truly a different color for Rudbeckias. They are calling it a "variety" as opposed to a "hybrid", so it just might breed true. [And one hopes so, at the price!] The T&M Press Release on this makes interesting reading and has a great photo! : http://www.tandmpics.com/res/pdf/press/TMPRUK09.05%20Rudbeckia.pdf

Unlike Tonya, I really like the yellows and oranges of most of the Rudbeckias. I have several that come up with almost red centres, as well. All mine are volunteers from a scattered seeding of a wildflower mix on my "Prairie" 5 years ago, and I am sure they are crossing as well as self-seeding! They are my personal alternative to the sunflowers I just cannot seem to grow!

Gee, I was surprised that Cherry Brandy was relatively cheap compared to some oher prices. T&M offers 50 CB seeds for $3.50. Prarie Sun, which has been around for years, is $3.15 for 25 seeds. Even their Zowie Zinnia are 10 seeds for $3.50. All things are relative.

Acording to this article, it's color is stable, so it would seem harvested seeds should be the same.
http://mygarden.rhs.org.uk/blogs/graham_rice/archive/2008/08/07/the-first-red-rudbeckia.aspx

I'm anxious to see the color of Cherry Brandy. Pictures show it as a red. But I read that they were bred from Gloriosa Daisy, which have more of an orange-bronze tone. I'm wondering if the CB will look as red as the pictures, or if they'll be more orangey in person.

I did sow a jug of them. I hope they WS as well as the other ruds I've wintersown.

Karen

It'll be interesting to see how Angie & Karen's Cherry Brandys come out and if there are any differences.
BTW, Karen, are you still using The Pumpkin Nook these days?
And can anyone identify that Rudbeckia in my photo or is it perhaps just a garden hybrid?

I have sown a jug of R. hirta "Marmalade" and, because they seemed to be something really unique, have ordered seeds of Gaillardia 'Amber Wheels', which I still hope to WS.

Jim: I'd guess your flowers are a type of gloriosa daisy. They (rudbeckis hirta) seem to cross polinate so readily, might have any combination of genes from nearby plants as well as previous generations. To illustrate how they cross.
In 2006, "Rud Becky" from commercial seeds. All were solid yellow

Karen

In 2007, from seeds harvested from those yellow flowers

More

I keep trying to post another, it disappears. One more try

Oh, WOW! What a change! I have quite a few that look like those in the 2nd photo. There are a couple in the 3rd photo that are quite unique! Almost look like they picked up something from that little Gaillardia (?) down in the righthand corner!

I wondered if the ones I have might be "Cappucino"; or just a vague "look alike"?

If I am reading the T&M press release correctly, it sounds as if the "Cherry Brandy" is also R. hirta, so I wonder if it will show similar changes from saved seed?

How are you surviving the weather?

Twist-ties!!! Remember that a couple of days ago I was lamenting the lack of twist-ties for my "jugs"? Well, yesterday, a friend gave me an old roll of coated electrical wire, and it works just great!

Jim

Jim and Karen: My seeds came from T&M. I drooled over the photo of it in Bluestone's catalog, but just couldn't afford that price, so I bought the seeds. We'll see what it looks like this summer.

Jim, I love your mystery plant! And, Karen, that Rud Becky is lovely too. Oh, my, so many plants on my list. I'll never catch up!

Got to get ready for work now. BBL.

Per that article I linked above it says "The colour is quite stable, in shades varying from light to deep red." That would make me think that the color should be much the same from generation to generation. However, since I have so many other hirtas in my yard (mostly green-eyed ones), and since hirtas seem to cross so readily, who knows what kinds of mutants might result.

My favorite hirta mutant, from seeds I harvested from Prarie Sun

Karen

Another shot

OK, what's it gonna take to get seeds of that beauty? You did save some, right? I wonder if it would take 12-15 years to perfect that? Marvelous! If it had appeared here, I am sure Ms Marta would have had it in a bouquet in no time!

Now, tell me, is this mutant (and, presumably its parent, Prairie Sun) what you mean as green-eyed, as opposed, I guess, to black-eyed? How many of these are there, anyway? And why are some black-eyed and some green-eyed?

Jim, you might want to have a look at a thread started by jmorth called some rudbeckia - sorry I don't know how to do links, but it's under perennials, last entry mid-September. I hadn't thought I much cared for rudbeckias before I saw some of J's self-crosses. J was kind enough to send me some seeds this fall which I sowed outside. Really hope they come up - and I too would sure love to have some like kq's.

I make bouquets for the house all the time. Those doubles were left to mature on the plant for seeds though, not made into bouquets.

Jim, I'll email you.

Karen

Here is the Some Rudbeckia thread http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/870009/

I WS"ed 12 more jugs last night. I still have to update my spreadsheet, which i now have on Google Docs.... but here's what a i got done:

Catnip
Amaranthus, gangeticus
Pink MilkWeed
Tithonia Rotundifolia
Heliopsis helianthoides v. scabra
Verbena bonarensis
White Cosmos Sensation
Indian Summer, BES
Centranthrus ruber
Thymus serpyllum
Echinacea, Merlot
Echinacea, Summer Sky

This message was edited Jan 29, 2009 8:41 AM

Very nice, perenniallyme! Thanks for sending me there! I want some of those pink gailldrdia that Bev (dragonfly62) has!

Oh, gosh! Don't get me started on another Forum!! Please! Where will it all end?

What a gorgeous bouquet, Karen! THAT's what I really want : flowers to make bouquest like my grandmother made; and like yours! What are you feeding those Columbines? Mine are beautiful but never have such long stems (except the native ones that grow wild on the mountainside). And what are the kind of curving spikey ones? It seems I should know, but don't. And, it looks like you got a Gaillardia with a long enough stem to fit in a bouquet! Nice.

OH Jim -- BEV is a peach... sweetest lady i know... well, one of the sweetest. and VERY giving. she likes to surprise me with plants... .

anyhoo -- drop her a note, i'm sure she'd be glad to share. I got a TON of seeds from her this year.

Perenniallyme: I'm sorry, I have only a few seeds from those ruds. The plant produced lots of blossoms but only a few of those were double, and I only saved doubles. I have given some seeds away already, promised some to Jim, and need enough for myself. Maybe next year I'll have more to offer. I have a lot of green-eyed ruds, (my favorites) so if they survive this miserable winter, I might have enough to share with everybody. Sorry.

Jim, thanks for the compliments, I do believe that was my favorite of all the bouquets I made last year. Those columbines are McKana's giants and they get about 3 or 4 feet tall, bloom like crazy. Spikey thing? Those purple ones shooting out the sides? They're regular old veronica, grow like weeds. The gaillardia is a "Gaillardia Burgundy", can get tall and wide. This picture shows one gaillardia plant. Also in that bouquet is common chives, digitalis, verbascum, rudbeckia, echinacea, larkspur, evan a few hosta leaves for "greens".

Karen

Thanks Angie!

I did WS some gaillardia 'burgundy' so tha will give me some blooms in a similar color this year if they do well.

Tnjoying the thread!

Tonya

Aha! Veronica! Everything I read says I should grow that, but I don't think I've ever seen the plant except in photos. And I've already done my seed order!! OP, well, if the WS succeeds, I should have all the others; if not this year, then next. Now all I need is a touch of artistry!

I never saved any seeds from the veronica. I WSed it several years ago. As for the artistry, most of my bouquets are far more ordinary. Mundane. Sometimes I just get lucky.

Karen

Karen
What is the name of the blue flowers with the ruds in the first pic. I am always on the look out for those small blue flowers. Hope someone else did not ask as I jumped ahead and posted as soon as I saw it.

Indynannyof8: Those are larkspur gentian blue from valueseeds. Mine have been as tall as 15 or 18" and the pretty electric blue seems to stay from generation to generation, unlike most of my tall larkspur. They reseed well like all larkspur too.
http://www.valueseeds.com/item-7239.html

Karen

Lovely hydrangeas! And those larkspur in a group are quite nice. Remind me of Blue Flax, altho the look much darker in the bouquet.

Karen after seeing your larkspur earlier I did get some of those seeds from value seeds. I can't wait to grow some of those, and I got quite a few different seeds from value seeds. Great prices! I couldn't believe they were .99 for most of them and even .49 for some.

My problem now is.......I plan on saving seeds (of course!) this year. But part of my hope in growing a garden was to have flowers to cut and bring inside. I guess I need to really double up on planting the cutting flowers so I can have cutting plants and seeding plants.

I have been setting containers on my counter as I get them and plan to do some more today. Our family generates 6-8 containers in one week! I can't believe I was throwing all of those away for so long. (and I am only saving the big containers like milk, juice, pretzels and animal cookies). Crazy.

I'm getting desperate for containers, LissaD! Can't even drink bottled water fast enough! Send some of yours this way! LOL

Too funny Lissa. I went to valueseeds and ordered the larkspur, too! Silly me, I already have sooooooo many seeds, but just couldn't pass up that pretty blue. Karen you should get a commission, although, at their prices it would probably be better paid in seeds instead of a percentage of the sale! How often do they change what they have available, any idea?

Tonya

Ha! Along with a few of the kiddos right ... they produce waste like crazy. Who knew? Although even with the containers I am getting, I did offer a friend of mine that if she gave me a few containers that I would trade her for some plants when they are ready to be planted out. She thought that was a pretty good deal.

This message was edited Jan 29, 2009 9:04 AM

OK, no containers; no kids!
Keep on planting!
I'm going to take my head cold back to bed.
Have a great day of seed sowing, all!

Jim

Thanks for the link tcs. And kq, I was really just commenting on how much I like them - I only have room to plant a fraction of what I've started as it is. I think some future year I'll get some prairie sun and see how they cross with the others.

LOL! Well, I tried.

Sorry to hear you have a cold, hope it doesn't last too long.

Speaking of cold remedies though. I recently bought a mint pillow that you heat in the micowave to warm, and then put on your chest. It has the most penetrating vapors of mint kind of like the Vicks type vapor rub but without the jelly, and it is reusable. I wonder if I can make some myself. I have spearmint seeds to grow for my tea garden, and I have a dehydrator to dry herbs and fruits. I just wonder if it is also mixed with an essential oil, or if it will do that without it.

**knock on formica** DH and I have not been sick this year. Our one son, he always seems to have 'something' ... but he is constantly with 'the public' ... oh yeah, and diet like garbage.... so he's always caughing and sneezing....

Jim -- hope ya feel better soon....