OK, I'm desperate now! There has got to be a solution!

Guys....I just don't know what else to do! I've tried EVERYTHING I was told to try for my lawn area. At this point, I'm almost giving up and just paving the darn thing with bricks!

I am not looking for the perfect "american dream lawn" here; I just wanted it to look something better than a dirt patch! Our dog and kid like to play on the lawn and I would feel bad to restrict the area - after all, that's what lawns are for, playing, right? So...tell me! There has got to be at least one type of lawn grass or groundcover that's traffic tolerant?

I really don't care anymore if I put in something that will try to invade my garden beds. I don't care anymore if I have to water it. I don't care if it looks pretty. As long as it stays alive!!!!

Does anyone here have ANY suggestion? This is really my last attempt before I give up and hardscape the area...

Please Help!

Have you tried Bermuda? It's certainly hard enough to get rid from places where I don't want it! LOL But honestly if your lawn area is small and the kid & dog are out there regularly, you may have trouble with pretty much anything unless you go with an artificial lawn. I have just have a dog and no kid (and the dog is a relatively small one) and anytime I've just had a small lawn area he's pretty much destroyed it.

rob, you say now that you don't mind something that's invasive, but I would think REALLY SERIOUSLY before using Bermuda or anything else with runners. You have such a beautiful garden, and it would be into it in no time. My neighbor put in a Bermuda lawn 20 years ago, and I've spent the last 20 years getting it OUT of MY yard. It came under the fence and literally took over everything in just a couple of months---before I knew what was happening. I tried mulching one area with an 8x10 old wool rug---it ate it completely---grew totally into it and over it. I try to garden organically, and I had to buy a Weed Dragon (like a big blowtorch) and burn all of the stuff back to the ground before I could even think of digging it out. Roundup barely touched it, and I was so worried about my fish and my birds and my cats that I couldn't handle using it anyway. I paid a gardening crew for 2 years to keep every blade of it dug out, and I still have patches that show up now and then. Recently we tackled my friend's parking strip, where the previous owners had laid black plastic and red landscape rocks over bermuda for about 5 years. It was thriving underneath that with no water and totaly beating-down sun all summer long. Three of us spent the entire day digging out roots and runners, and it's still coming back. And it's not a very attractive lawn either. It's on my list of things in he** that people I wish ill upon will have to deal with......

I'd recommend you contact a local sod farm like the one we have here---or ours might be able to recommend either a grass for you, or give you the name of a sod farm in your area.
http://www.grassfarm.com/
Maybe you can call the San Diego Chargers office and see what they use.....

I agree with ecrane3 that maybe that "fake grass" is just the thing for you. I know it's expensive, but if you're only doing a small area, I know people who have put it in and just love it----and it looks good too!

P.S. Peaceful Valley has some good grass seeds. This one's called Tough Turf. You might check there, too.
http://www.groworganic.com/item_SLL509_Tough_Turf_Lawn_Seed_25_Lb_Bag.html

This message was edited Jan 16, 2009 8:02 PM

Tell us again how much sun/shade the area gets.

IF you are willing to go to the expense of sod, St. Augustine grass may be your best bet. It isn't anywhere near as deep rooted or invasive as Bermuda, takes foot traffic very well (it's very coarse and thick) and is shade tolerant...to a point. I have it on the north side of my place and it does just fine. It's solid green right now and it never gets ANY direct sun all year.

IF you can buy sod, and let it get established, and keep the kids and dog(s) off it temporarily, it should do fine. They use it in all the parks here...and you know how much traffic parks get.

I've found that mondo will stand up to almost anything, grows in shade and sun and isn't invasive. If you buy the 'nana' it's small enough to play on. My parents grow it in the yard where their dogs play and it's just fine. Not a cheap solution though.

Orchard Supply Hardware has a sun/shade drought tolerant mix. It is finely textured, but if you plant it densely, you will get great tough coverage. I overseeded a mixed bermuda / St. Augustine grass lawn and it is taking well.

Robcorreia, I don't know what kind of sq/ftg you're looking at, but ecrane3 suggested looking at artificial turf. Costco has an artificial turf online for a "dog run." As "costly" goes, this doesn't seem to be too bad. Check it out at http://www.costco.com/Browse/Productgroup.aspx?Prodid=11271095&search=dog%20run&Mo=0&cm_re=1_en-_-Top_Left_Nav-_-Top_search&lang=en-US&Nr=P_CatalogName:BC&Sp=S&N=5000043&whse=BC&Dx=mode+matchallpartial&Ntk=Text_Search&Dr=P_CatalogName:BC&Ne=4000000&D=dog%20run&Ntt=dog%20run&No=0&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Nty=1&topnav=&s=1

You might want to check it out. That it's being sold as a dog run speaks to its ability to tolerate doggie things. ^_^

Linda and The MopTops

Talking to the turf folks at the public golf course might expand your knowledge.

Seeds are on their way.....

How big an area are you talking about? In your area you might enjoy Dichondra. Not a choice for most, but once it is well established it is pretty tough. Withstood all the neighborhood kids playing on it, and sometimes with it. It is thirsty, but your climate isn't as hot in the summer as it is here inland.
I planted some in a small area inside my greenhouse because I wanted a nice soft ground cover that didn't require mowing. It is so happy, that is starting to cover the concrete pad around the pool. I need to transplant it someplace else. It can be invasive when happy, but I've noticed that it does allow my ginseng and lantana to sprout through it. It is pretty easy to cut or pull up. I had to water daily last summer, but now I'm only watering once a week. (Remember it doesn't get rain in there). My brother remembers that they used to cut a hole in the dichondra matt and stick the hose in it. After a while it felt like you were walking on a waterbed.
Just another option I wanted to throw out there.
I used to be a bad kid and "sled" down the iceplant covered slopes in San Clemente in waxed cardboard boxes. The iceplant always came back. Don't know if you like that option, but thought I'd throw it out there.
WIB,
SW

Hi everyone, sorry I didn't reply earlier, I didn't logon during the weekend/holiday. I took a picture of my lawn for you to see what I'm dealing with! Yes....look and weep for me!!!!

JasperDale, to answer to your question, most of the lawn gets direct sun for part of the day, and all of it gets dappled shade from the palm trees all day long like on the pic above.

I have about 400 SF, so I can't afford to re-sod at this point (believe it or not, we had beautiful sod installed when we moved in a year ago). Can St Aug and Bermuda be sown in there instead of using sod? Ima, I know what you mean...but I am SO frustrated that I would prefer hands down to have to do some weeding than dealing with dead lawn....I put so much effort in making my flower beds beautiful and it's all ruined with this ugly are right in the middle of it all!

SW and Doss, mondo grass and dichondra (which I love!) I think wouldn't be tough enough....

Mondo is definitely tough enough. As I said, my mother keeps it in her dog area and it works just great for her where she couldn't keep a lawn before. I would have to concur on the dichondra though.

rob, all the work you put into your beds will be ruined by runners if you use bermuda, unless you put some kind of barrier in, and make it at least 12 inches into the soil. My friend has a similar issue with her neighbor's bermuda lawn that I had. We dug a trench 12 inches deep and about 6 inches wide and poured concrete in it between the yards. For the past two years all she's had to worry about is the runners over the top. Nothing seems to be going under the barrier any more.

Rob...I definitely wouldn't mix in bermuda. It's just a train wreck waiting to happen.

If finances are an issue for sodding with St. A. , you could try getting maybe 1/3 the amount of sod, then cut it into small pieces, say 4 " square and using it as "plugs". If you do it in the spring when the weather warms up, and keep it off limits for a while, it should fill in quickly. You'll have to actually PLANT the sod pieces, not lay them on top like you would with full sheets of sod.

I did that for one of my sisters on the side of her house. She/we made a dog run and in 3 months it was filled in solid. BUT, we kept the dogs (2 huge Labs) and kids off of it until that time.

I didn't do any soil prep for this project, just pulled out the few weeds that were there. I watered it well several times B4 planting and it filled in by it's runners just fine.

"How Big" of a dog are we talking about here?

After seeing your yard area, and knowing they'll probably ration water in your part of the world this summer, I don't think Dichondra would work for you unless you do it piecemeal. Once established, it is surprisingly resilient to kid and critter torture. At least it heals fast. The biggest problem besides getting it established is that Dichondra is a water hog.
I haven't tried the Mondo grass, but since it has worked out so well for doss's Mom, why don't you give it a try?
I have to concur about the bermuda. It is incredibly invasive and almost impossible to kill. It is impossible to pull all the root without some breaking off and starting the cycle all over again. I think the only way to completely kill it is to cover it with black plastic and make sure it gets no water for eight or nine years! LOL!
Let us know what you end up using. I have places in my yard that have the same conditions that you do, and might benefit as well.
WIB,
SW

SW--I know from personal experience that 8 or 9 years covered with black plastic is just abouth enough time for the plastic to break down and the bermuda to bust out with guns blazing and take over the town again.....sigh.....

hahah you guys crack me up!

JasperDale...my dog is only a Cocker Spaniel...who thinks he's huge, lol! he's not too big but he "hunts" in the garden - which means running in circles on the darn lawn and digging holes all over it....

Mondo grass or St Aug. seem to be my best bets so far I think... (dichondra unfortunately is out, I love it but as mentioned above it needs lots of water to thrive).

Remember the Disney Sorcerer's Apprentice where Mickey broke the broom and every splinter turned into a new one? That's what I always think of when I'm pulling out bermuda runners.

Early on I tried to compost them. My DH used what he thought was nice compost in the raised bed around my pond. The runners came back to life and took over the bed.

DUMdaDUMdaDUMdadadadaDUMdaDUMdaDUMdadadada.....

hahuahahuahauhauahua!!!! You are starting to scare me now, lol!!!

be afraid...be very afraid...

I think now even the DOG is afraid, lol!!! Perhaps I could get some bermuda to scare him away!!!

OMG, Ima, I am very very very frightened of your story. The bozo I had plant my wire fabric fence in the front yard, scraped up the dried up bermuda and simply threw it on top of the piles of leaves!!!! I just started throwing it into a compost barrel with the leaves and figured it would heat up and collapse. Well, I don't need to repeat your performance. You know the one?

rob, I'm glad you are afraid---you (and the dog) SHOULD BE afraid!

twin, I have found our city green bins to be the perfect spot for bermuda. The stuff will either go into a really hot commerical composting process that will never return a grain of material to my garden, or be mixed with non-green refuse (to help meet the percentages required) and will likely take over every inorganic substance that's been put into the landfill since 1969......it's definitely got a place in the grand scheme of things----just NIMBY!!!!

this just in:

Associated Press

Residents of a peaceful enclave in San Diego, Ca. remain shocked and dismayed by the trajedy which struck their neighborhood yesterday.

Known only to her neighbors as "RC", a local homeowner is now in the psych ward at Mercy Hospital following a severe nervous breakdown she suffered due to her lawn. (Yes readers, you read that correctly: her lawn.)

According to neighbors who witnessed the unfortunate incident, the woman became outraged and suicidal upon return from a weekend getaway when she discovered that her cherished gardens had been taken over by Bermuda Grass and she suddenly ran amok with various high powered weeding tools and toxic chemicals in a futile attempt to eradicate the abyssmal pest which had consumed her meticulously manicured gardens in just two short days.

Paramedics arrived at the scene, along with local law enforcement and the woman had to be taken down with a taser gun. Two policemen were injured when they attempted to subdue the woman and she sprayed them with a highly concentrated solution of glyphosphate. One officer has lost sight in one eye and the other is reportedly having neurological difficulties as a result .

A spokesman for the woman's family reports that she is resting comfortably under sedation and will most likely remain that way until such time as a decision can be made for her long term treatment.

A fleet of bulldozers was at the property this morning leveling what remains of the plantings. Plans to cement the entire area have been approved and work will begin by the end of the week.

Oh my gosh Mike, that is great. lol
You have such a creative mind. Love it.

Donna

That was ME 3 years ago!!!!!

Great story, JasperDale! ROTFLOL! That would be me, minus the high tech tools and pesticides/herbicides. Only I would have been doing a lot of cussing! Followed by me ripping out as much of the invasive pest as I could, and even louder cussing. Really you can't get rid of the stuff. It is the bane of the west coast, rather like kudzu back east. Nasty, and invasive. I just barely got a start unearthing my front side flowerbed, which is hard to see for the leaves. See the photo. FIL is going let me borrow his leaf blower, then they will go either into my bfly garden or into a compost pile.
I am hoping to unearth the rest of my bulbs and get rid of those coneflowers too. It's not that I don't like coneflowers, but I just don't want them there. Another invasive plant, but the birds like it.
The area I have covered in dichondra is pretty small about 25' x 20' feet. Really good and easy on the feet with minor maintainence, but it did take a while to get it established, and it is a waterhog. The green house is my luxury. I water most every thing with drip, so as to be conserving water. I am fortunate in that we have wells and city water.
BRB.
WIB

JAPERDALE, I AM LAUGHING SO HARD I AM CRYING!!!!! HAHAHAHHAHAHA!!!

Hey Rob,
any of the lawn options that have been suggested so far would benefit by building the dog his own digging area (and making sure he uses it).

It needs to have a definfite boundary like boards or pavers. Then dig up the area inside and add lots of sand so it's soft to dig in. Bury toys and treats in there to attract him to the area. Any time you catch him digging in the grass, tell him no, take him to his digging box, and play with him for a couple of minutes there. That way you substitue a good behavior for the undesirable one.

If urine is causing a problem also, giving him a piddle post can help. It's basically just a designated spot for marking his territory. An old wooden post or tree limb set in the ground so about 6 inches is above ground. I've heard of male owners marking the post first to get the dog started on using the post :)

Good Luck!

Sorry about that sideways photo. Don't hurt your neck. Here is another view from the other the other end.
WIB

What a good suggestion Katlian! I'll start using that idea with my puppy!
Our posts crossed, and I wanted to show the high traffic area in my green house where I have the dichondra. It gets a lot of use because everyone likes sitting there, in my tropical oasis.
WIB,
SW

I grew up with a dichondra lawn and it seemed that it was serviceable. We certainly played hard on it. Pretty garden SW

I, too, grew up on dicondra . . . in Stockton, CA . . . a bit cooler there than in Fresno. The nights cool down there and often here the temps stay pretty high at night in the summer. It was just yuuummmmy! Yuuuuuuummmmy!!

SW, that is lovely. And look how wild it is. I remember my father keeping it pretty trimmed and it did really well. Great for bare feet.


BTW, I received my David Austin catalogue today. Speaking of yummy! I have several Golden Showers in my back yard and they bloom without fail, constantly, all summer, on the north wall (which the DA folks say it's good on, BTW). It just keeps on growin'.

Linda and The MopTops

Thanks for the kind words. As I said, that is a pretty small area, when you consider that there is a banana in the middle, and another swing bench on the other side of the area. It's in sad shape. Some of my tropicals didn't make it. But it is a water hog, and the thought of DH weed whacking or mowing in there, terrifies me. : O
I should go out there and trim it back from the edge of the concrete pad, but I kind of like the way it looks irregular and jungley in there. You can transplant them trimmings too. Especially since they are like a mat when they grow onto the concrete. Dichondra can be invasive too. It's taking over the little planter in this photo, but I usually place potted plants in there anyway.
Yeah I miss being a kid and tumbling on the dichondra. I'm not that limber these days.
Katlian, my puppy is already marking territory! Has his favorite fence post that he's been marking the last two days! : )
Sure hope robcorreia tries doss' suggestion of that Mondo grass. Doss can you take a photo to show us? I'd sure like to see what it looks like.
WIB,
SW

I'm glad it's working SW. It's always easier to redirect a behavior than to eliminate it. Works with my cats too.

SW, that is so pretty! Doss, yes, if you could show us the modo grass! I think I will plant a little of each and see what takes. At this point, I'm even letting clover grow in there! Seriously....I was weeding this week and thought, heck if it's green, it better than dirt!

Katlian, thanks for the great advice on the dog. I actually talked about it with my Dh last night, and he's going to build a sandbox for the dog.

I hope it works for you. The hardest part is getting them to use it, but if you're consistent and reward him for digging in the right spot, he should get the idea. If he has a spot where he likes to dig now (that you don't want him to use), it can deter him to bury his waste in that spot. Dogs like to roll in other animal's poo but not their own!

Katlian is right about burying the dog poo. It may not deter them from digging other holes, but that means you don't have to dig one to put their poo in. I've done that before myself just to keep their dog run clean. If the hole is deep, just cover with a couple of spades full of dirt and add a new layer the next day, until the hole is filled. : )
robcorreia, if you do decide to use Dichondra, section off one area of the yard, oversow the dichondra seed. Give a nice misting until the sprouts start to come up. Once it is well established you will probably find that it starts outgrowing it's section on it's own.
Katlian, I used to live in Carson City. Also in Gardnerville. I have some very fond memories of Trick-or Treating at the Gov.'s Mansion, going to the museum, and of course the DQ. Not to mention all those lovely Victorian Houses!
On a trip through the area last year, we went to the former High School, which is now a Museum in Gardnerville, and I got pictures of the Elementary School I used to attend. The thing I remember best was living across from the Hellwinkles' Dairy (I sure wish I could find that again!), and how kind Mr. & Mrs. Hellwinkle were to us. Mr. Hellwinkle showed us how to milk cows, and how adroit the cats were at catching a stream of milk and drinking it in mid-air. He also had a great rope swing in his barn. Mrs. Hellwinkle made the best home made bread in the world! I was gratified to see their family represented in the museum, and one of their kids I went to school with is now running the Dairy.
The next best thing was the birding. My brothers and I used to spend a lot of time looking for birds nests along the edges of the canals. That is when I learned about cowbirds. They lay their eggs in other birds nests, and the other bird raises the cowbirds babies. I haven't figured out if the cowbirds are smart or just lazy! Thanks for the trip down Memory lane! : )
So doss, on your next trip to see your Mom, please, please, take a photo of the Mondo grass dog run! Please! I know you've mentioned it to me before, and I am still trying to figure out how to landscape that one area of yard in front of the old cabin.
Many thanks!
Walk In Beauty!
SingingWolf

I wish we still had a local dairy. I know Chris Hellwinkle is on the Nevada Agriculture Board representing Dairy interests but I think they don't have a place around here that can process the milk. As far as I know it all goes to a big plant in California and is sold under various brands.

Does that mean that the family had to sell their Dairy? Gosh, I sure wish I could remember their kids names. It was like 40 years ago, and I just can't remember. I'll have to ask my siblings. The Hellwinkles used to milk the cows and put the milk into a separator, and then I think it went into another tank for pasteurization. They didn't bottle it or sell it to the public, but it went into a tanker truck. I don't know where they took it from there.
We still have a local dairy not far away from us. I hope that they can hang in there. So many family farms have already been lost. : (
Walk In Beauty!
SW