Cottage Garden Seed Swap & Chat #19

Thanks for the well wishes, but it wasn't too bad for us, just a little boring having no chores to do or electronics to use.
I had friday off because I drive a school bus and there was no school. lol
The businesses were open if they had power, there were only a couple sections in my town, that had power and one of them was the restaurant that we ate at. Last time we had no power - all's we ate were grilled cheese off the wood stove, so this time I said - let's go out. It was more for the kids, my 18 month old was all freaked out and it seemed to make her feel better getting out of the house and having a real dinner with real lights. : )

We did a lot of cooking out, three neighbors encluding me got to gether and grilled out, had a lot of food between all of our freezers being out, I though it was kind of fun with the cooking out. I had all kinds of clean milk jugs (for WS in this year) for water and passed them out to collect water in incase we had that problem too and we did so even my WS jugs came in handy lol

Sounds like you made the best of it! : ) If we lost power in summer it would def. be better but only because we would have more daylight and we cook on our grill everyday anyway. Plus we are outside all day too. : ) The only downside would be you can't just stick your food from the fridge/freezer outside to keep it good. That would make a generator especially important in that case.

We had lots of coolers but a lot of places were out of ice, I didn't get any ice until the second day, I was on my way home with the last three bags of ice that wal mart had and so proud I found some, the other neighbors already had ice, when the electricity came back on that evening :)

I think I remember you sayin that. I was about to say at least you can put stuff in a cooler on ice but then I thought - the ice would melt and stores will run out. I keep tellin my husband we need a small generator for the fridge. I want to get a miter propane water heater to replace our electric one, but dh says a generator would run the hot watre tank too, so we don't really have to. There are no generators around here since the ice, but maybe at some point we can get one. There was an emergency broadcast a little while ago - about 250,000 homes still have no power and they were giving info about shelters and numbers to call. They are concerned people will start fires but recommended using alternate heat sources. Thank goodness we have a wood stove. We haven't turned our furnace on yet, and our house averages 80 degrees in the upstairs which is where our bedrooms and everything is.

This message was edited Dec 14, 2008 7:49 PM

Meredith if you get a generator do not use it in the house! Those are very dangerous, they put off bad gasses, we lost two people here in town because they had theirs in the house, no matter how small they are get you a good extension cord whatever they use with those things, I've never used one so I'm not sure what you use with them, just be careful if you use one please :) I don't even think they are suppose to be close to the house so many feet away.

I have three small electric heaters going in here they are suppose to be energy savers, we use LP gas and paid almost $800 every two months three times last winter so I'm trying to cut down on the gas bill for this year, so far the electric has only gone up not quite $20 but a lot cheaper than the LP. This house just loses too much heat, I need someone to come in and redo our windows but haven't found anyone yet. They need more caulking around them and I bought some clear caulking the other day to put around the windows on the inside hoping that will help. My first gas bill this year was almost $700 for a 500 gal. tank but the gas was down when they brought it and the tank was almost empty, I'm waiting to see in a couple months what happens :) I want one of those fireplaces with the vents lol

OMG I can't believe people would put them in their house! I couldn't stand the smell or the sound, they are stinky and loud! Thank you for the warning - that is so awful that people had to lose their lives like that!
We borrowed one last year on the last night of our power being out and as soon as my dh had it running the power came on : O I knew that would happen lol. A friend of ours had power that time when we didn't so he let us borrow it.

Great then you know about them, it doesn't sound like something that I would want in a house, I don't know what those people were thinking but they lost their lives, this was two seperate families too! Well two couples but still, one lady out of four people survived but she almost didn't make it.

Man that is so sad : (
I am so greatful for power and the safety of our family - especially after hearing so many are still without. It's supposed to get very cold tonight and there are a lot of people without alternate heat sources. Even if they go to a shelter they might come home and have their pipes burst when they turn the heat back on. You are supposed to do it very slowly but they can still burst - that happened to a lot of people last time.

We are getting 2" of snow and ice today, it's sleeting right now like crazy, I just hope that maple tree out front holds up thru all of this ice, I've been expecting it to fall for a few years now, no one will touch it because it's in between the electric lines and the electric company won't trim the limbs back either, if this tree falls it will fall on the corner of the house! The electric company said it has to fall first! Can't go by 'it might fall in the lines' and when I see how they butcher the trees on the side of the road trying to keep them out of the lines and they don't even need it, it makes me so mad cause they won't do this one! It's a one sided tree and the side that needs trimming is on the side where the electric lines are, it's going to be a mess when it does fall! I just hope dad has good insurance on this house! I just know it's going to make a hole where the livingroom is! No more trees are going to be allowed to grow up close to this house lol

Lea, those trees can be scary. I've looked at them differently since that ice storm several years ago. You could hear the creaking and splitting sounds as trees around gave way to the weight- really creepy!

Yes they are creepy sounds Neal lol The guy behind us lost a few big limbs last year in the ice storm then when the winds came he lost the rest of like five trees total! It seemed like all he did last winter was cut trees up in the back, he did work all winter on them cleaning them up! Then when we had the hurricane winds he lost another tree, these were old oak trees that's what the whole neighborhood has here and they are falling apart becuase they are so old in a couple of years we probably have many trees around here at all. He has three oak and one pine tree left in the back, I just looked. The only trees I have here in our yard are an old cedar tree, catalpa, that eyesore and scary maple, american holly and a dogwood, I've planted another dogwood that is growing sooo slow lol and four holly trees so far and a lot of tall shrubs like the crepe myrtle, sensation lilac, old fashion liliac and sweet shrub, I have a vairegated holly that I bought this year I plan on planting in the spring and a black hills spruce. I tend to go for hollies then yell when I mow around them lol four of them aren't pointy though. I think I'm getting a holly collection going without planning on it but I love those lol I need to plant more trees on the property line and I'm working on that :) Oh, I have a beautiful trident maple that I started from seed that's ready to plant this spring too and I did get a couple of red buds in a trade a couple of years ago that are doing well. Now you know all about my trees lol I got carried away lol

Lea, I must know more about the variegated holly- did you find a hardy one? I love variegated holly, but most I've seen aren't hardy here. I've got a lot of big trees here on this hilltop too, and as much wind as we get, they do concern me. The closest are water maples and a sycamore, and there are several Colorado spruces too. There were 5 spruces planted way too close together and way too close to the house, and clustered around the main entrance. There was too much competition for any of them to thrive, and they were all shaded by a huge water maple. I just got all those removed- sooo much better! So far I've been focusing on magnolias for the new tree additions here, but I'm really wanting dogwoods and redbuds- waiting for the right clearance sale!

Here it is Neal :) I got one in a 2 gal. pot at the nursery don't remember what I paid for it but it wasn't that bad for a smaller one they wanted around $50 for a four foot one.

http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/56751/

I heard the maples don't live that long, not sure about the water maples but what people around here were telling me only about 25 years. The one we have out front I think is a sugar maple and it must have gotten some kind of disease cause it's a lot younger than that maybe 10 yrs.? Dogwoods only live about 25 years too, I really need to replace the one I have here now but just hate to but I'm sure it's on it's last leg, it's been here forever, since I was a kid anyway it has to be older than 25 yrs.!

I have some dogwood seeds if you want to try some I'm planting some more for this year, sometimes they germinate and sometimes they don't for some reason. They do need to be WS.

Or if you want a bundle of saplings, we bought some long ago from Musser Forest, and I think they're still considered one of the best sources around. http://www.musserforests.com/

I may be doing viburnums along the property line, I forgot about those, I've already planted one at the top of the field that I got in a trade and think they would be pretty around the field on the back side and I think some of those get tall, I just hate dealing with a lot of trees later on when they fall down, Bill has had a heck of a time in back of us with all of his trees. I don't have anyone to help if they fall.

The neighbor behind us has a HUGE ash tree - a monster. We could tell it wasn't quite well when we moved in a couple years ago as the leaves are pocked with bugs and all the other trees around it have very healthy leaves. About a month ago we heard some great noise and looked out back - he was having a huge portion of it taken down - the part that hangs over his neighbor's garage. You can see where it's starting to split in the original crotch, I'm just sick over the thought that we'll lose that some day. It's a good 60' or more tall, and gives us all our morning shade. I know that trees have lifespans too - but it just doesn't seem fair somehow when something that large and old finally reaches the end.

Oh geeze......... got my Bluestone Perennials magazine today.... just starting to flip thru it....

Robin, I planted two ash trees a couple of years ago and after reading about them I'm concerned about the ash borer Apparently they are coming this way from somewhere, don't remember that part :) Maybe someone else on here will, but I'm about ready to take them up before they get too big and really hate to, I've seen ash trees here and they are pretty and I really like their leaves mine are only about 4 1/2' tall right now I just don't know what to do, those borers have killed a bunch of trees from what I have read, I hate to let them get too big then have to have them cut down later. I sure hate seeing the old oak trees going too they were here when I was growing up :)

tcs, I got my Park's the other day and only got in it long enough to look for a plant someone else was talking about lol I need to go in with blinders lol I want to order seeds and know I have plenty here lol Not to mention 75 gal. pots outside to plant for next year :)

Hi Therese and Lea and all
I got both of those this week also. Drrooollll. I have a question. Does anyone know if all sea holly is sterile? I see the one in Bluestone is and I have seeds from a generous lady. I guess they are not sterile but it's just a question that i have. I don't have much room and then I get these catalogs. No room is the reason I did not participate in the piggie swap and now I am ordering seeds and picking out plants. How will I explain to DH?

Veronica... i got some seeds last year in the swap, and they did not germinate for me. Though they are sure neat looking.

btw -- glad you popped in... i was thinking about you today.

as for Bluestone... i'm thinking i just have to have Weigela Midnight Wine.
I'm getting some Sun Power Hostas and this would look perfect in front of them.... Eastern Exposure.

I got sea holly seeds (2007) and germinated them by winter sowing. Planted a couple, gave away a couple, and put some seeds into my piggie swap selection. They're still little plants and haven't bloomed yet, so I suppose it's possible that something other than sea holly sprouted in my container... that has been known to happen!

I think I have Midnight wine. You can have cuttings of in the spring if you want tcs.

Lea, I think maples, or at least sugar and water maples have a longer life span than 25 years. I'm sure these are much older, I can't reach my arms around the trunks and this house is about 150 years old. At Mom's house there are 3 sugar maples my Dad planted in 1960 still going strong. A couple of years ago my sis had those cut way back so no limbs are hanging over the house, and was lucky to find someone to do it for $1500, which is really cheap for suburban tree removal and trimming.

Robin, it pains me too to see an old tree go. Sad to see the grandparents of the forest depart.

good morning :)

The sea holly seed I rec'd from last seasons swap germinated really well (winter sown) and grew into nice plants that I planted in a border. They were still too small to bloom. I noticed that mention of them being sterile too, in the Bluestone catalog. I was thinking that maybe they meant it for that particular cultivar of sea holly....it was more blue I think.

I'm sending my box today...I just have to add a few more that I almost missed. I had to go back thru dmails and check. I tried to keep up by using a computer request list, but I still managed to miss a few. I "think" I have everyone's requests now...or at least I hope I do.

Have a good day!

Thanks Andrea .... I"m going to see if i can find them for a 'reasonable' price ... and as i like symmetry in that flower bed... i need 2

If i got the clipping from you... i'd probably pot it up until it was bigger then find a different spot for it.

If you remember in the Spring.... drop me a note.

Lea, the emerald ash borer came to us via shipping pallets in Detroit, and has spread primarily due to folks bringing firewood back from camping trips in Michigan. Michigan has had hundreds of acres decimated, and the borer, as you know, is slowly spreading. The nasty thing about this bug is it attacks at the crown of the tree, so by the time you see symptoms it's already well infested. (Unlike the Japanese Longhorn Beetle, which attacks the trunk and leaves a much larger entry hole.) I know that there are some trees in Indy that have been infected, but I don't know how far it's spread around here. I think the ash tree behind us will fail due to old age (and it may even be hollow, not sure) before the borers get it. On the other hand, I've got a client with a really nice ash tree that's about 25' high, and she wants to get rid of it before it gets bigger and costs her more to get rid of if it gets attacked. Unfortunately, the economy put an end to that plan this past year - she's hoping we can take it out this next year and replace it with a red maple. And she's "old school" too, she doesn't want any of the new hybrid reds, she wants one of the original old red maples :-)

Here's a shot of the ash behind us, after they finished trimming a bunch off the left side. I so love this tree...

We lost our sugar maple a few years ago. We figure it was about 100 years old , which is the life expectancy for them.

Last summer the first emerald ash borer was found in our county. IF you see purple boxes up in a ash tree or just in a woods, that's the trap. http://news.uns.purdue.edu/images/+2008/emerald-ashborer.jpg
If elms and American chestnuts are an example of what can happen with the ash, it's just as well we already lost ours. I love how an ash is so insistent to be egg shape. You can cut it's branches off, completely ruining the form, but wait a little and it will archive the signature form in a minimum of time. I'll really miss them when they're gone.

maozamom, for some reason that link doesn't want to work for me, so I went and dug up one from another state.
http://www.hgic.umd.edu/content/emeraldAshBorer.cfm

I saw some of those traps in southern Indiana last year, and thought they were generic bug traps.

I had to chuckle too, as Indiana's Master Gardener program "borrows" LIBERALLY from Ohio State....you'd think they could at least get that right....and this from a Purdue grad.

Dryad according to the publicity from the county those purple bags are(or more correctly ) were to see if there were any of the emerald ash borer in our area. There is one still hanging down the road from my driveway and when it first appeared I thought someone had put a purple gift bag up in the tree as a joke and then driving around I saw them all over the place.lol I'm not sure if any were found here in Jackson county or in Scott where your sis lives.
Concerning the sea holly I assume that all are not sterile. I had some several years ago and they grew pretty large in one summer but the wind blew them over. I decided I did not want them and pulled them up. Now I think I do want them. A woman's perogative ya know. Thi nk I will ws my seeds and maybe order the plant also. They will be different. The description on all say they dry well.
Our garden club decorates a large Christmas tree in our county library lobby out of materials dried from our gardens. We think it is beautiful. Anyone in the area going through Seymour should pop in and check it out. Thus the interest in sea holly.

I live near the Ohio State ATI and they're doing quite a bit of research on the E.A.B. They're the ones that developed the Japanese Beetle Trap that lures more pests to your garden than it kills, hopefully they'll have better success with the E.A.B.

I'd love to see a natural christmas tree. In a Christmas tree the silver of old varieties probably would be preferred. So now I have an idea for next year. Sea Holly needs temperature fluctuations to germinate so I don't know any easy test to check if it's fertile. If anyone has more information please share it. I have Miss Willmott's Ghost I offered and I can only assume it will grow. I've planted some and hopefully I'll have more next year. This variety doesn't flop and I love the texture but it doesn't have the gorgeous coloring of some of the new varieties.

mao

Sis has a cedar field on her farm, and each year they get a cedar and bring it up and set it up outside the kitchen window. This year we're starting some new family traditions (since all the grandparents are gone now....) and one will be to sit and watch football and string popcorn to put on the tree for the birdies to eat. That and poker - LOL! That's as close to decorating a tree as I'm getting this year. We have an artificial one, in the basement - but the sucker weighs like a dead body and dragging it up the stairs is something we aren't up to this year - so just ornaments and lights and such in the house. I took the lights that would normally go on the tree, and decorated various pieces of furniture and windows so we have the ambiance of the lights.

I had no idea those purple traps were only for EAB...scary to think how quickly things like that can spread and how little defense we really have against them. I'm with you maozamom - I will miss the Ash trees when they're gone. Unfortunately I'm a bit too young to remember the elms, but from the pictures I do mourn them - chestnuts too, although I think there's a new hybrid out that's supposed to be a resistant cross between the American and foreign chestnut. If they develop an EAB trap that's as nasty for your yard as the JB trap I hope that folks realize what they're getting in to by attracting stuff like that to their yard. Here's hoping we don't start importing more pests that will ravage our native oaks and such.

Just outside town is the last woods in the whole state that has never been timbered out. It was donated to the state about 15 years ago and a path of decking goes through it. It's my grandsons favorite place, so we've been taking him walking through it for the last nine years. There's a few chestnuts still living there. There
were many 400 y.o. oaks throughout the wood but in the time I've been visiting it the oaks have been dieing fast and no one knows why. My family won't enter the woods if there any wind, it's just too dangerous. The worse part is no new oaks are growing there. At this rate in a few years the maples will have nearly taken over.

I don't remember the elms either but I have seen a couple thirty y.o. trees and to my taste they're much lovelier then a common maple. From my understanding Dutch Elm Disease came over to North America from England fairly early in our settlement. At that time it was very minor, the fungus was part of a symbiotic relationship with a beetle. The beetle carried the fungus and the fungus helped the beetle feed. Some how the fungus mutated and instead of killing a tiny hole in the tree it started killing the whole tree. Then the beetle traveled back to England from a shipment from Canada and devastated their elms too.

now there's some irony for you - sort of like a gift that keeps on giving! I have seen some mature elms that clearly are resistant (or they wouldn't be there) and sure wish I would have been able to see how they looked lining the streets of small towns. I wonder if new oaks aren't growing because of the ground/soil? Then again, with all the things that can attack plants....

mao, I've tried to WS that variety of sea holly many times and have no success, I was wanting some but just didn't feel like killing more seeds lol The others aren't as hard to start for some reason, I do have another newer one I'm going to try for this year can't remember which one right now but I'm going to WS it too.


I just have to tell you my BIG mistake for this year lol My neighbors are going to kill me for sure next year! I had a milk thistle come up the one that has thorns all over it well I'm used to dealing with that lol Sooo I let it grow, it's the wild one with the pretty pink blooms, I remember my dad cutting these out of the ground when I was a kid so I knew better than to grow it but I did anyway, thought I would just cut the blooms off once they had died, big mistake!!! It went to seed and did I mention I had two more come up and let them grow??? LOL It was a mess, I went around and tried to get all the blooms off of them but some were so tall I couldn't get to them and I already have them where they reseeded lol Never again, now my Moroccan sea holly reseeds like this and is thorny too but it's shorter and a lot easier to deal with, it pops up everywhere too but they are easier to pull up while they are small but the wild thistle isn't it hurts!

Just thought I would share with you my embarrassment for the summer, this is what I get for wanting to plant weeds in the yard lol

Robin, that's really a shame what had to be done with that ash tree, I still don't know what to do with mine, I really hate to cut them down, I need shade in the afternoon where my dog is too and that's where they are planted, decisions, decisions, but those borers will be here sooner or later, I did read that you could get something to discourage them maybe I need to look that up again. I have a Trident maple that's about three foot high in a pot, maybe I just need to put that there instead

Meredith, I'll look up when I planted that pineapple sage downstairs, I still haven't transferred a lot of my seed notes to the computer yet, I have three small notebooks here right by it with dates on them lol Now that the swap is over maybe I can get to them soon and I will let you know :) I know one thing for this year that I intend on doing and that is not getting caught up in excitement of starting the seeds, they were started way too early on some and I was running out of room downstairs lol Later is better on some seeds lol Does everyone that was in the swap from last year remember running out of room lol :)

They've developed a treatment for trees to protect them from the EAB, but it's one of those that is an injection, etc. I don't think it's something that would be affordable for smaller trees. Sis is wanting a tree for shade too, but doesn't want it to get too high, so I've got her considering a winter serviceberry. What about a sycamore? They grow fast, get big, and give shade. Of course they toss off twigs like crazy......

I don't mind the twigs, I deal with those from an old oak tree by the field all of the time, I would love a Birch, what do you know about those, I know it's another one that is iffy cause are n't they the ones their roots are pretty shallow? And they need more water don't they? I just want the trees that I shouldn't have :)

Our cable has been off a while, there was a wreck down the road about 10:30 this morning and they just now quit holding traffic back, I'm sure someone was in jured or killed, I'm afraid to find out who it was, the last wreck a couple of weeks ago a good friend of mine it was her husband and he isn't doing well at all and the truck driver that he hit was killed, this highway out here is so dangerous! They say the most dangerous in Indiana.

I know the river birch that is popular here has a pretty short life expectancy (20 yrs maybe?), and you have to watch where you plant them, the roots like water pipes.

ok, so those are out cause it would be close to the septic tank, thanks klstuart, may be I should just check out a sycamore like Robin was talking about, I wonder if they grow very fast though that's my problem too cause of shade for Max, I had a wal nut tree come up there and I killed it cause I didn't want walnuts in the yard now he hasn't much shade where he is in the afternoon. I just have to do some research that's all and really hate to get rid of my ash trees I planted there but I think it's for the best for later on. I'm afraid if I planted the trident maple I would have the same problem with the septic tank.

You may want to consider planting something like a Tulip poplar for quick shade, and planting an oak or something else close to it so that when the Tulip's short lifespan has passed the other tree is more mature and throwing some shade. As for growth on Sycamores, I think they're pretty fast - and they get absolutely huge (plus they like damp places). If it works out for you, you could leave the ash trees for a couple years while the tulip gets some height, then take down the ash trees and replace them with maple.

On the other hand - doesn't matter what you plant if the septic's there, they will all give you trouble. Sis has an absolutely gorgeous callery pear on the north side of her house, and they discovered a couple of days ago why it's so fat and sassy - sitting right over the septic line. Yep, plugged the line and they had all sorts of hoopla with towels and cleaning up a couple nights ago. They were afraid it was the septic tank but when the plumber came the next morning and was snaking out the line he ran into a blockage pretty quickly and they figured out it was the tree - so down it comes this weekend. Doesn't bother them so much as Hurricane Ike did a real number on it and we weren't sure if it was going to make it anyway. We're sure this is the problem, as they moved in 3 years ago (this will be their fourth winter there) and they were told the septic had been emptied just a year before. In my opinion if you handle a septic system properly the dang thing shouldn't need cleaning out every 4 years! Gotta be that tree.