sallyg...........My potting soil is a mix of all good stuff including my own garden soil and compost. I salvage all loose medium from my pots each fall. To that I add ground leaves, finished compost, trace minerals, my end of the season tea, a skant measure of 4-2-4, a bit of grass and just a little raw manure. I usually have some of this at all times throughout the growing season. My potting soil rebuilding uses it all unless I determine that I have an excess of any one element. Once the medium looks, feels and smells right I cover it with more ground leaves, cover the pile with a piece of plastic and weight it down so it does not blow away. I then just forget it until spring. Then if I need more volume I will add some peat and or coir. Coir holds and releases water to your plants better than any other organic medium. Coir does break down but very slowly over several years. In the process I may lose a five gallon bucket of growing medium each year that needs to be replaced. I shoot for about two wheelbarow loads for next years use to refill my pots and growing boxes. I can only guess at the exact amount of coir in the mix......possibly 25% by volume.
Composting: What does or doesn't work for you!
Thanks docgipe for your potting recommendation. It sounds very dense and very fertile.
I got a coir brick from Pinetree seeds last year. I haven't seen it sold locally. My nearest SoStates said he tried but it didn't sell so he discontinued. Anybody looking for it should not expect to find it easily locally.
Guess I should take an honesty pill..............if I am not well or can not come up with some help I will buy two bags of Organic Choice Potting Mix and mix it in. That still holds my repotting costs down to less than tweny bucks estimating all additives.
Sallyg,
Yes, I have moved the Stupid Earth Machine and frankly should do it more often. Acquaintances pointed out to me that that was the only way they could get theirs to heat up. Last spring my stuff was really compacted after the winter and too wet. So I did remove the bin, move it to the side, and then shovel in the wet stuff adding dryer finished compost and some peat to help loosen it and make it dryer. But the shoveling was hard on my back since it was heavy. I found I had to transfer it to my buckets by hand and then pour it in. My new fresh bin has a lot more grass and straw to keep it looser. I use one of those compost aerator tools throughout the summer and that seems to help.This new batch is easier to loosen with the aerator than the other bin. I also poke the aerator through the bottom hole to loosen the soil and then it starts to drop down. I use one of those compost aerators throughout the summer and that seems to help. I threw my back out one spring when I tried to turn the compost with a pitch fork!
Also, guess I'll be investigating that goat manure!!
Gita, I sympathize with the knee problems. After falling on each knee within a year I had to improvise methods to weed without bending over. That hurt the back. So I learned to sit on my knee pad and then do a fancy roll over to get up! Yea, old age is a challenge but I refuse to give in - always looking for alternative ways to stay in the garden!
Docgipe, great that you found the coir so cheap a few years ago. I can find it all over the Internet but it's horribly expensive to ship if you want any quantity. I found the bricks on Gardeners Supply tonight for a reasonable price and they were running a special free shipping if you spent $75. So that was a good compromise but I'm still hoping to find someone who carries it locally! I know it's great stuff and I understand it helps to heat up your compost as well!
Jessica
Isn't coir used to grow orchids in?
Maybe you should contact an orchid Grower......Just a suggestion, and a question.....
Gita,
That's a good question and I don't know. It's used in Hydroponics so I have looked at many of those sites. The issue is always the shipping costs even if they offer a good price on the coir itself. But I guess we will all have to live with the high shipping costs for everything! They sure aren't coming down despite the lower gas prices!
Jessica
I thought about using Coir instead of Peat, but I keep reading that the long term effects of Coir on plants are still undetermined. Many sources that I've read indicate that since Coir takes so long to break down, generally 3 years or more, it needs Nitrogen to break it down and thus diverts the Nitrogen away from your plants. Seems counterproductive to the end goal.
The whole issue about using coir is that it breaks down slowly, is a renewable resouce and holds water better than any other known organic product. It does not tie up nitrogen any more than any other organic product. Because it breaks down so slowly it uses or ties up less nitrogen than a product that would rot or breakdown faster. It does also contain a root stimulant similar, to other root stimulants, as found in willow, kelp, alfalfa meal and other natural plants known to excite rooting. This all goes together and makes it a far better investment than the cost of peat which does all of the above faster and does not have a root stimulant and is a resource many feel we should not be using at our depletion rates for instance. Many feel peat has been being used many times faster than any peat can be created by nature.
Coir has not been advertisied and promoted like peat. Coir to a commercial firm is seldom tested and little used therefore they do not know the product well. The main reason is that it takes coir longer to soak up ready for use and it is not into a trusted distribution system. Perhaps another reason is that the major users only look for a product to support their forced growth practices for four to ten week. Why use a better product? Water distribution is seldom a problem in greenhouses.
There is no shortage of product at the source. It costs no more or less to ship coir. It is a renewable resource. In fact coir would factor out less expensive than peat because it holds many times more water than peat and releases it slower literally stopping the leaching of chemicals that nearly all greenhouse growers use. However greenhouses only care about first and fast bloom on a schedule. Nothing else matters.
When introducing anything to a new use it is wise to run your own use tests. For instance if we just slam something together without experience we are asking for trouble. Using coir on plants that like it on the dry side may require watering only once a week or even every other week. Introduce coir and overlook this fact and anyone would soon be able to claim coir causes rotting and fungal disease problems. Good growers never make quick changes or changes in their sucessful growing mediums because that just makes good sense.
I would suggest you try coir blends with your potting mediums. Coir enables me to use soil, compost, leaf mold and trace minerals more efficiently. I never yet have had a situation which I did not like using coir and I always reuse it by rebuilding my potting mediums in the fall just like building a compost pile to freshen up the potting medium.
Thanks Doc for that super info on coir. I never knew it contained a root stimulant. From what I have been reading everywhere it seems like it is the absolutely ideal growing medium so I have committed myself to using it in my EB's next summer as well as adding it to my potting mix and compost. I have used a potting and seeding mix from Gardens Alive for years that contains coir and loved it. But they are no longer as reliable a company as they used to be.
Maybe it shouldn't be expensive to ship but UPS is charging more now per pound and the rates will go up in January. A coir co-op would be very welcome if one could figure out how to ship it less expensively. It would be expensive if I had a company ship me a large bag of peat or the Pro-Mix potting soil that I use. But both are readily available locally. I could save if I ordered a palette but what would I do with it all?! I'm not ready to go into business yet! I am going to check with my local Agway man and see if he has a distributor who sells coir in larger amounts. Maybe he would be willing to add it to a new shipload of other things.
Good advice on going slowly to test it with plants that have different water needs. I hadn't thought of that at all! Thanks! Love reading your info!
Jessica
Jessica, In the past we(Mid-Atlantic Group) have done small co-ops for members that are going to attend the plant swap or some other get together. I was thinking if you or someone else would want to do one like that you could have the coir delivered to my house. I will also look around this area and see if I can find it locally maybe someone from our Greenhouse Assoc would know. Ric and I are planing to do a spring swap. Although we have not set a date or started a serious discussion yet. The idea of a coir co-op or any other would be just in the idea stages right now until the swap is more firmed up. Just something to think about.
HollyAnn,
I am new to the Mid-Atlantic thread even though many of you live only about 2-3 hrs away. I don't know why I didn't check in here before this week! But you all seem pretty active and that's wonderful!
I will be away in the spring until after May 17. That would probably be too late to hold a plant swap for you (although I don't usually plant until the end of May anyway). But the idea of having a load delivered to someone's home where it can be picked up is worth considering! If I could order and pick them up even after the swap or co-op I would be interested. The shipping would certainly have to be less per item just because of the quantity. There are a couple of websites that offer it by the truckload as well. The one I found offering products similar to those in the DG Marketplace is Hydro Gardens: http://www.hydro-gardens.com/growing_medias.htm . I am interested in the 5 gallon EZ Grow Bags and the 11 pound compressed Blocks. 2 blocks fills 3 EB's with some left over. Buying them in bulk really saves a lot. I have seen the compressed blocks running anywhere from $12.50 to $15.00 apiece on different sites plus shipping. Depending on quantity ordered we can get them from Hydro gardens for between $4.70 (100 +) and $5.85. (1-9) plus the shipping. Even if you had to add $3 to $4 a block for shipping it would be a bargain!
How about the price for the 5 gallon growbags if you buy them by the container - just $1.65. You only need to order 12,000! Do you have room in your back yard for that? LOL
If there is enough interest among the Mid-Atlantic group that would be the answer to my problem! It would be work because you would have to get a commitment from the participants before ordering! I couldn't do much about any organizing until after May 17 but if someone else wants to set it up and contact the company that would be great. Please keep it in mind in any case! Thanks for suggesting it!
Jessica
Jessica, Another idea would be for you to post an ad on Craigslist to see if anyone in the area would want to split a shipment with you. I tried every different avenue to have a large amount of Permatil shipped to me. The quotes that I got for the bagged product were shipping costs between $600 & $700 I needed 40 of the 27lb bags.
Finally, I called my local greenhouse and they arranged to have a pallette (48 bags) delivered to them for me to pick up. There was no shipping charge to me and they charged me the same as most websites price.
Stormyla,
Thanks for the suggestion about Craigslist. And I am going to talk to the Agway man since he carries lots of organic stuff and might be willing to order it in bulk if he has a supplier. I'm also going to check with my local Herb Club and see if there is any interest in sharing but they are pretty conservative. They don't take to new things readily. I've been suggesting they experiment with straw bale gardening since I've had such good luck but no one will even try it! Very frustrating!
I noticed in looking back through this thread that you noted having problems with tomato seedlings popping up all over. I have the same "problem" but find it fun and to leave some of them and see what my "mysteries" produce. I leave them growing in parts of the flower garden and people are amused to see them there. They sometimes produce as well as my intentionally planted ones (although they have a much later start) and are mostly cherry size so DH gets a kick out of walking around the flower garden and "snacking". My piles do not heat up that much but I also understand that it is very difficult to get a pile hot enough to kill all tomato seeds. I think they are pretty resilient. In any case, I don't mind and I keep adding more tomato remnants each year when I make sauce!
Jessica, I tried to get the Permatil delivered via the Agway store. They only had it in 5lb bags and didn't have it in on their ordering site in larger sizes. I asked him to call the distributor and he told me that they had to order from Agway's system and if it wasn't on their computer system, they couldn't get it.
Thanks, Stormyla. No harm in asking but I'll understand if he can't accommodate me!
Jessica, We travel in the spring also, We'll try to set up the plant swap late enough for everyone's perennials to be up so they can divided and swap those as well as seedlings. We also usually have more than one get together so if you will not be able to make mine, I am sure another chance to meet everyone in person will come along. I think I will look around locally and see what coir products I can find, as well.
HollyAnn--You are about 1 1/2 hrs from me.same as Longwood Gardens, about. I would love to come swap there and see all your projects up close. I bet Gita would too.
YUP! Sally--I sure wood! Got lots of plants to swap....and by then should have lots more...
Holly--You could call "Meyer Seed International" (here in Baltimore) and see if they carry coir. Or I could--but in case they do--I don't want to be the "middle man"....
They are like a farm supply store and carry all kinds of odd things. They ship too via UPS.
Phone: 410-665-5511
Toll free: 888-503-7333
On their card is not a web-address, but I suppose you could try: meyerseedinternational.com
Gita
I'll be starting a Swap interest thread the end of Jan to come up with a date. Gita thanks for the info on the coir.
Do you think we should start a separate coir thread where everyone could post sources and other info? Might be nice to have that all together in one place.
I told Ric to be on the look out for an Ice Bucket in his travels. To replace our old plastic ice cream container. Sally's article on composting suggested it as a more attractive option for saving kitchen scraps. Ric picked this very nice one up at the Salvation Army store for $3. Got to love the SAS. Thanks Sally for the tip.
P.S. I keep hiding the old ugly ice cream bucket behind the toaster oven so no one sees it now Ric won't have to search to find the compost bucket. LOL
Hey- pretty cool. You're quite welcome for me passing on someone else's idea, LOL.
My latest 'hobby' at SAS/goodwill is to check the glass for E O Brody pieces. My MIL calls them collectible although they are not rare. There's a bunch on eBay. She thought they were only green, but there are clear, white and brown pieces. I found a clear vase with wheat sheaf pattern and started three paperwhites in it for an Xmas gift. She liked it very much. The tall one in this picture. I just might be planning an article about this ^_^
But how is the compost? I have a 4 by 8 bin with about a foot of really wet compact leafy waste, topped by eight black leaf bags full of moist leaves with some added N source. I turned the bags the other day to try to distribute the moisture. A lot easier and quicker than if I was trying to turn all that, loose. The top third of the bagged was frozen but the bottom wasn't and under the bags I found a few happy worms and yucky soldier fly grubs. Basically, I've tried to set up that and two smaller bins, with a good ratio and I hope the cold organisms will chug along until late Feb when we get more sun
An ice bucket wouldn't begin to be big enough for me. LOL I use the big containers that kitty litter comes in. They're a good size and the lid snaps down nice and tight. In a pinch, I also use empty big coffee cans but like the ice bucket, they're too small to handle much more than one day's worth of coffee grounds and vegetable scraps.
Sally, We have been prowling around the SAS quite a bit lately. Ric brought home a very nicely done hand carved decoy, signed and dated $3.
Hart, I have a plastic tote outside with the trash and recycle bins, the ice bucket will just hold daily kitchen scraps. I'll take it out in the morning when I feed the birds. I also have a kitty litter bucket in the backroom and use that when I have a lot of vegetable matter to remove but that gets taken outside right away.
Compost pile is looking pretty good I used some last month when I planted the last of my plants. That little tiller Ric bought is really nice, he just got it out and tilled up a spot while I went and got some compost, then he tilled in the compost and I planted. So quick and easy.
Obviously you, Critter and I need to provide the entertainment at the next swap - little tiller races. LOL
LOL, I can just see us now.
How about a tiller parade? With precision tiller marching?
Sounds like a Knot Garden in the making. LOL Any band directors in DG, we need a choreographer for Holly & Hart's tiller brigade.
Not a band director but my 4-H club use to have a drill team. Those kids sure looked good on their horses. I wonder if I still have that old Rawhide tape. Get'm up move them out!
Till team
Love the "Till Team!"
My Christmas present to myself was a stainless steel compost pail from Gardener's Supply. 'Fraid I succumbed to temptation before reading about going to SAS to find an ice bucket instead! It is a little smaller than the ugly plastic one I have been using but at least it doesn't hold the odor and can go in the dish washer! But it does fill fast so I must use the "smelly" one to take the overflow and traipse out to the compost bin in the back of the property.
Concerning the coir hunt: The local Agway man will have nothing to do with things produced in Southeast Asia so wouldn't consider ordering it! But, for anyone living near the Lehigh Valley (Easton, Allentown, Bethlehem), I finally located a hydroponics store which carries coir in the 12 lb packages as well as the bricks. His prices are higher than those advertised on our own Market but then the shipping becomes a problem here. However, I have found that if I order 6 or 8 of the 12 lb packages here at the Market the price is actually about the same with the shipping since the price is so much lower and there is no tax! But it's nice to know there is a supplier about 25 miles from me if I run out and need more immediately. The store is Harvest Moon Hydroponics, 1239 S. Airport Rd, Airport Plaza, Allentown. 1-800-550-3491 Edited to add that after googling it I find it is part of a chain: Here is a list of other locations http://www.hmoonhydro.com/locations.html
Sounds like everyone had a nice Christmas. It's supposed to get quite warm on Sunday which will be a real teaser. Got your tillers ready, gals! I plan to use that day to finish mulching some plants with straw that don't like this constant freezing and thawing. They are calling for rain turning to ice on the roads tonight. Ugh!
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Find you a cat person and get them to save you one of those big litter containers. No smell from them.
Another free one if you don't mind metal are the tins that popcorn comes in. They have them at Walmart for around $4-5 and you get to eat all the popcorn first. The ones with Christmas scenes are probably half price now. I use them for cleaning the hot ashes from the pellet stove. I have a nice, big lard can for the wood stove. Wish I could find another one of those lard cans but the little country store in Front Royal that used to sell them doesn't have them any more. That would work great too for composting.
Be careful with the ice. Another recyling tip - ashes from the fireplace, woodstove or pellet stove are great for melting ice on your driveway. I don't mean hot ashes, just ashes. Make sure you put something down so it doesn't get tracked into the house, but I think I'd rather have ashes than that salt stuff tracked in.
Last time I bought litter, I was torn between the nice bucket (for toting other stuff like compost) and the nice jug (for toting rainwater to my house, mini rain barrel style) Never mind what the quality of the litter is, I'm buying it for the container, sheesh.
I would thoroughly enjoy a mild day now. I feel palpable relief to have all the presents given out and my share of family dinners done! Tonight was just chili, chicken noodle soup, and salad, and ham sandwiches, but still seemed like I did a lot, phew. Now I can check my plants without the guilt of worrying about the stuff I should be doing for Xmas.
I know. I wish they just sold the containers. I did get cat food in one but it was a special deal and I use that one to store the cat food.
I've been so cold all winter, I asked for all this stuff for Christmas to keep warm - sheepskin slippers, an electric warming throw, sweaters. It can stay cold for a bit now if it wants, I'm prepared. LOL
IAMS, right? I have that too!
I need a new system for the dogfood instead of refilling a gallon Ziploc and keeping it on the kitchen table. Maybe this cat litter bucket?
LOL Yes, Iams. I bought the food just to get the container. It works great for cat food so I think it would be good for dog food too. I buy the bigger (8 lb?) bags of cat food and it about half fills it so I'd guess it would hold about 15 lbs or so of food.
Have you seen the big containers with a side handle they sell for bird seed? They look like a very tall plastic pitcher. That would work well for smaller amounts of dog food too. Walmart has them back where they have the wild bird supplies, not the pet bird supplies.
Thanks- I'll look around. I want to be able to store the dog food under the kitchen table without fear of Addy getting into it. She has figured out that the dining room table sometimes has snatchable nummies when she prowls unnoticed. The kitchen table has plenty f good stuff, including her food bag, but she doesn't go on that- its counter height so I guess its still (visually) uncharted territory.
I have the same problem with one of my cats. Dog or cat food has to be put away immediately or Gus, the emperor of the universe, scratches it open. Does no good to scold him, he just gives you the look and walks away. A feline "yeah, right."
Apparently my new compost bin might not be working for me. I placed it behind and slighty beside the hill in my large flower bed which borders the neighbor behind and to the side of me.
The neighbor behind me who weeds and prunes nothing came and told me it is on his property. When he moved in I was out weeding our adjoining area one day and he came and told me he would get around to it someday.
He also told me that he wants to put up a post and rail fence so would I not plant anything over on his side of the property. There were markers and rope up from the previous owner of his house's survey. I showed him the markers and that my plants were all inside of it. He did not agree with the markers and pulled them out. No fence has been put up.
The neighbor to the side of me, who maintains her grass and weeds but no trees or shrubs, left a note which I found on the ground in my front shrub bed saying that it is mostly on her property. The note also accused me of moving the markers. 3 years ago she had piled up a bunch of leaves close to where I put the compost bin. At that time she still had a 60' long by 5' high brush pile along the back of her property.I asked her to move them and she did.
We spoke about which shrubs were hers versus mine and she said that she didn't really know as she did not plant any of them. She never weeds anywhere near this area and I keep digging out vines and scrub trees there. The bin is actually between a shrub, which I always prune my side of and my hill. It is 4' wide. .
We live in a suburban housing development where you are required to have a trash service. She does not have one. She claims to bag it all and drive it over to her mother's home. I've caught her adding branches to my pile that I accumulate for my weekly trip to the recycling service. I suspect that some of the brush that I cleared off of this property was put there by her.
Does anyone else have similar "Compost" problems? Any suggestions?
wow--sounds like your'e getting all your manure from the neighbors. That stinks. Neighbors like that can take the fun out of it can't they?
Hopefully the fence guy will do the fence IN accordance with a proper survey, and that'll help. As for Ms Takemybranches.--I guess you'll have to take evasive action. Put a fake snake on top of your next branch pile-- A haha!!!
I have four neighbors. All are very workable. I prune my side of bushes in between, and I do the other side of one hedge because I know that the previous owner to my house put those in., and because that neighbor watches out for us when the power is out to offer help, and she gives me buckets from pool stuff.
Another neighbor is every nice too, but with language barrier I haven't discussed bushes with him. Luckily, he works in the yard and has just cut back the overgrowing forsythia we "share." Ya, I know we lost some bloom, but when you live with an old forsythia hedge for twenty years--your priorities change.
#3 is more than tolerant- actually understands some wacko stuff like when I steal his leaves.
#4 has been building compost for six years with grass clippings and can't seem to make time to plant a garden. I have eyeballed those clippings...
The Gardener Upstairs must be watching out- I'd be a wreck with a bad neighbor. Or finally grow a backbone. LOL
Stormyla, We haven't had much of that as one side of my property is bordered by a lane and one side the road. On the back side we have had just two owners actually it was a father and then after him the son. That is the property that we "borrow" with permission that is. LOL
We actually cleared it with our small goat herd and later fenced it for our horses. My plantings run right on the line between and I'm not too careful about placement. Of course we don't put anything permanente other than the row of Leland Cypress we planted down one side of his property to screen both of our properties, from very nice but messy neighbors and of course that was with permission. My entire huge compost pile is actually on his property. Not to mention our boats. LOL We had been expecting to buy this property from the owner when he retired as he had a home several hours drive and only used this as a flop house during the week when he worked in this area. But just as that would have happened one of his son's came down and got a job. Luckily he hasn't had much interest in changing anything.
We only have one side that has been an issue over the years. We know that our property lines are correct. When we bought our land we had been told by the owners that many of the lines in our small development were wrong. That their surveyor told them he had to go out to the main road and shoot in to get the correct line. A neighbor across the road had to do the same thing. Plus three different surveyors all came up with the same marking along the top of our property when new owners bought the woods behind our house and the farm on the other side of the lane was subdivided so I have no doubt that all our markers are right. But the line at the lower end seems to be an issue. Every time a new owner buys it and has it surveyed they end up putting stakes on our property. Funny none of those surveyors ever come up with the same line. I had one neighbor tell me part of my barn was on his property.He also told me I had noisy animals and I asked him didn't he see the barn sitting 20ft from his house when he bought it. LOL Then I have to go though the whole story all over again. Trying to explain to someone that has just put out big $$ that they are wrong is not easy. Plus I keep telling them that they should with a correct survey have about 15 more feet at the back of their property. Just glad I wasn't the guy with the woodland behind us, he has had all kinds of issues with many of those whose properties back up to his. Just glad that the neighbors on that side (the nice but messy ones) haven't been a problem and have been here quite a long time and probably won't go anywhere anytime soon.