Thanks for the info on your Meyer. My friend has a bush that she bought in Florida, blooming age, several years ago. The bush has spent it's life on a stool in the dining room near a north sliding glass door. It leans wayyy over, and it's a little skimpy on leaves, but it gets regular doses of Miracle Gro. Despite what I think are bad odds, it has been blooming and making lemons every year..
They gave me a fruit and I grew seedlings. I had one round of spider mites this spring, but for the rest of summer they were outside in light shade, or sun with gauze over them, just to keep bugs off, moderate the sun since they were in small pots, and keep things from falling on them.
I asked in another forum but nobody here seem to know for sure if they'll grow true from seed. Many commercial citrus don't. It may take a couple more years to know if these seedlings make good lemons or trash. I might hope that I can speed it up a little by keeping them growing under lights for winter. Sounds pretty foolish at the moment.
Composting: What does or doesn't work for you!
Not foolish at all. Any citrus makes a nice looking indoor plant. I think my first may have been an orange from the homestead kitchen window. When I went off to college my mom got tired of messing with it and tossed it. She raised a grafted Kumquat and worked the fruit into cookies and cakes.
When I lived in FL, I had little success with seed-grown citrus. They would grow more like a shrub, and I never got fruit to set. The ones that did well for me were those on grafted rootstock. A lemon in a big nursery pot outside only came indoors if the weather was going to be below 30. It was at least 4' tall and wide, so it was a bit of a bear to move, hellish stickers, and unwieldy--always caused a sore back. It did ok in the house if only kept for two weeks max, but of course dropped leaves, and some of the smaller fruits. I think I have a great spot for a Meyer lemon here, a garden room with plenty of direct and indirect light and cool at night. Wish I had that tree now. I do have a little Calamondin I just purchased. It has a dozen or so green fruits that I hope will turn as orange as two sweet little trees I saw last Christmas in a store display. I also have a tea (Canadensis Senensis) tree that had easily a couple hundred amazingly aromatic flowers on it. It is now getting new small leaves that can be removed for making tea. Not gonna do that though. I want it to get bushy again. But there's nothing to compare with the sweet smell of waxy lemon flowers in winter. Logee's has them. I should order one, don't ya think?
If you use any lemons at all and have the space for them....order two. Don't come back here three years from now and say you wish you had. :)
Are stuffing , green bean and sweet potato casseroles compostable???
Storm, sounds like an invatation for 4 legged critters to me. I don't put any cooked veg that has butter or sauce on it in the compost pile.
I always cook my veggies plan and let everyone butter what they put on their plates.
Thanks lady, I never put any but raw or plain cooked veggies in it or any sugar. Just thought I'd ask. I certainly don't need anymore critters!!! However, I won't swear that olive oil hasn't made it onto the pile!!!! I thought you had already left for Disney.
Not yet but getting really close! Will be off computer this Thursday ( Maybe be on in the early am before I leave for work.) back on the following Thursday evening. Hopeing to post lots of Disney Holiday decoration pictures when I get back.
Personally, I do use small amounts of bread, pasta and cooked veg in the compost. I have had raccoons, possums, voles, foxes in the area but never known that I had any problems with them and compost.
I lost my head today. Went to get paperwhites at a huge nursery that also has llamas,(hence llama manure, can't go there and not get that) then later stopped by the Starbucks for a huge bag of grounds again. The guy looked like St Nick, with a big bag of grounds slung on his back. I just love that they will carry it to the van when its really heavy!!! a Tall Chai Latte also sweetens the experience.
Sally, Starbucks was bare today!!! The counter guy told me to just go out back to the dumpster and check for them. Guess they're getting tired of us gardeners. Well, it is easier on the pocket and waisteline.
I need my $ for mushroom soil and rock dust. Then I need to buy some gravel for my path.
LOL Did I mention DD that works at vets p/t is now also working at Starbucks....*evil laugh*
stormyla--truly , it's luck of the draw. I got shot down three times at this SB when I first started. (But one girl was very apologetic)They didn't do it at all. (save) Then after Jeremy's article, I got brave and tried once more. They seemed to have gotten a message from Corporate. I did get sent to try the dumpster once. I guess it all depends on the day/the store.
Now Chantell- you have Connection at a vet and a SB???boy are you working the System! way to go!
Chantell, Work those connections girl. LOL
Stormyla, I keep meat scraps out of my compost but anything else usually goes in. You do have to be careful of attracting animals to your compost.
I think I'm losing it! Had a dream last night that I was putting compost all over my yard and planting spring flowers. Woke up slightly groggy and all excited until I realized it's barely winter yet. LOL
I thought I posted this a couple of days ago must not have pushed the send button or may-hap posted it on the wrong thread. Last week I finally got around to getting the plants my friend brought over in the ground. I should call them plantsicles some were frozen solid, well we will see if they make it or not. Ric tilled me up a nice spot behind the potting shed and I put some of the very nice compost from the bottom of my pile in there. I will say that the compost sure looks good.
Nice, Holly...nice!!! Ok now...for all that want coffee grounds...I'm happy to get some together for any future swaps - just have to let me know ahead of time and BYOB/C (bring your own bags/containers)...have a small car now...no van but happy to bring what I can.
Chantell, you must ask DD if the employees secretly snicker at us grounds fiends.
I was lucky to get outside while the sun was out today, used my latest haul to enrich a bed for daylilies and pansies- if i pick up a few of the last
OK!!!! SO! Here I am reading about major hauls of coffee grounds...and them being put in beds and compost,,,,
They are acid--right? SO--How does that come out "the other end" when you go to use all this compost?????
I never brew coffee--I use Tasters Choice--as I ONLY drink one cup in the morning--that's it!
When I have company--like I just did for my daughter's wedding--I brewed at least 2 rounds of coffee every AM.. Then I just walk out my front door and sprinkle it all around my beautiful Camellia plant--and scooch right back inside.
I do not have a SB around here to go begging to....Have a McDonalds.....and a KY.....and an Outback.......well, I will just use my Holy Tone on my acid loving plants....and, you all know how I feel about my stupid Earth machine composter!
Ain't she lovely? And useless...?????
Gita
I tthink compost all ends up pretty neutral at the end.
The only reason I'm getting the grounds now is
- makes me feel virtuous
-comes in two heavy duty trash bags I can re use
-can use it right next to house no fear of termites
-ready to use in texture and analysis
-cute young guys smile and say Shore thing, if they're heavy they carry them and smile at me.
-store is very conveneint and I have frequent errands
giant fragrant bag of grounds yesterday concealed the fact that my daughter was riding in vehicle that also carried bags of llama manure in the way back part; trying for weirdest mom alive award obviously.
All things once living will rot. No matter where they start out they will end up about PH 7.0 when fully composted. That is how all comes out the other end when fully composted. A half inch sprinkled anywhere will be beneficial from the moment they are applied. Coffee grounds are very safe.
Llama beans ala Llama poop is one of the best poopers you can get. It makes great tea. Just put a shovel full in a five gallon bucket and stir it as you go by for two weeks. At that point dilute it to look like tea you would drink and use to your hearts content. Keep a lid on the bucket to prevent a fly hatch and possibly skeeters. Goooooooooood stuff!
Gita, does your "stupid Earth machine composter! " have a bottom? I was just thinking if you put it in a spot in your garden bed where it would not look bad and filled it, then when the compost is ready, you could just lift it and spread the compost with a rake. Then set it in a different spot and repeat. It doesn't look that big in the picture.
Just a thought.
Gita............call the company for a set of instructions. Follow them and your stupid composter will become very intellegent. Those instructions may be on line.
Holly says we don't use cooked meats and "stuff" in our compost. I guess what she doesn't know will not hurt her. LOL The boys and I put anything organic in the pile, we just cover it. You know, out of sight...
One thing we always add are fish parts after the fillet, another is trimmings from butchering almost anything. We simply mix into an active area with "hot" clipping and sometimes a handful of lime. We never seem to have a scavenger problem, and the pile has been home to many a blacksnake hatchling. Beware of egg carrying females they are aggressive! The worms involved are of different types based on the age of the part of the pile you excavate, but are present in all but the active areas. We may downsize the pile this spring if we start raised beds in the veggie garden. Ric
Holly, I'm jealous of your compost!!
I have never had a problem with any raw materials including fish and meats. They simply must be placed in a hole about eight inches deep and covered well. I've seen our piles consume whole road killed rabbits and buckets of fish. The native bacteria and fungi plus higher life form pile critters take care of everything. My "stupid earth machine", sits six feet from my kitchen door. It takes care of all kitchen scraps except bones. They would go to if I had a way to grind them down. The big secret is to maintain a reasonablely proper green to brown material mix. Both the compost piles and the "stupid earth machine" get unmeasured left over tea and residules from the clean up of tea making. If either the compost piles or the "stupid earth machine" get out of ballance you get odors and winged insects in a hurry. That of course is not the falt of the compost gone bad.
If I had a reasonably inexpensive way to do it I would valve my kitchen sink's grinder to shoot the grindings to the earth machine. I guess if I really checked that might be illeagle by the plumbing codes. Nothing at all wrong with grey water if the soap used is biodegradable. I really think I could hide it nicely. LOL There may come a day when we will be forced to collect, save and use grey water including ground up kitchen scraps.
doc,
Thanks for a good chuckle here this morning!
My "stupid Earth machine" is not "stupid".....It works and does what it is supposed to do...hence--it must be intelligent..... Everything I throw in there just disappears over time. It never seems to get full--which is a "good/intelligent" thing. The "stupid" part is that I cannot get to all the good stuff at the bottom without taking the whole thing apart in the middle, which I have done only once. and it was a pain to get it to snap back together!
When I did it, I had to separate the contents into "not yet composted" and "composted and ready". Then I threw the "not yet" back in there.
The little "drawer" at the bottom is pretty useless....also "stupid".. I can only get out stuff as deep as I can reach in with my cultivator and scratch it out....maybe half way in. The other side of the bottom has not been emptied in over 3 years. Must be liquid gold by now!
One is supposed to aerate one's compost. I know that--but doing so through the top is impossible--even if I have taken the "stupid thing" apart in half. I have a pitch fork and tried using it once, leveraging it against the edge of the "thing" to lift up and down some of the contents....Well--I promptly cracked the side of it!
So--my compost in there never gets moved around.
Doc, when I first got it, I read all about composting. I read the literature that came with it, I went on the DG Composting Forum, everything. Googled it, etc...Tried doing it right--then the "stupidity" of this thing set in
I confess that I throw more "green" stuff in there than "brown", because I eat huge amounts of melons and fresh veggies. I do not throw any sticks in there as they do not decompose well, and only "soft" pulled up plants--NO weeds! Not enough heat in there in my opinion. The fruit flies and pill bugs and all their larva sure thrive in there. Worms too. I am not sure--but I think it does NOT have a bottom. I have it on a concrete pad for that reason.....also for looks...but the tree roots from my nearby Maple do get in there....
I do not bag my grass clippings--I have a mulcher-mower. For those of you that do NOT mow this way--it DOES NOT contribute to any thatch! It is the best way to mow!
I do throw some dried leaves in there now and then and I do water the contents in the summer. Other than that---it just sits there doing it's thing.....
Anyway--the "stupid" part is that I cannot easily get to any of the good stuff. Not like one could if one had an open pile.....
Gita
LOL, Just saw Ric's post. Oh yes now I remember that one particular fish that didn't get covered just tossed on top. WHEW did that thing stink until they buried it I could smell it all the way up at the pool. LOL
Sally, You are a dream I never even thought about Lama Poop. We have neighbors that raise Alpaca I certainly don't need anymore compost right now but Jamie could use some and Alpaca tea sounds great, to me. We use to raise a few pigs and would make manure tea from the pigs droppings. Best stuff I have ever put on my window boxes. Jamie is raising chickens so I should be able to get some chicken droppings, too.
Sally, What do you pay for Lama Beans? Are the bags full of just the beans or is there other organic material in them?
Doc, do you only use your stupid earth machine for compost, or do you have another pile somewhere? What about when you were growing your pumpkins? Didn't you need a lot more than what the machine would make?
You're all getting me chuckling this morning. Too bad I have to go soon!! errands
doc thanks for llama tea tip.
Ric, butt in anytime!!
Gita--it's not doing what you really want meaning giving you something to harvest and spread around, OR putting coposted waste where you want it. Its too bad your beautiful yard isn't big enough to give you a lot of extra room to move the "s-e-m" around. As ladyg says, that would get it where you want it. But I have a "s e m" too and I just hesitate to make a 3 foot diamtere bare spot in any of my beds while the thing works on a batch. What the world needs is an attractive bottomless thing about the diameter of a five gallon bucket, a bit taller maybe, with an easy lid. You would have this decor/ composter placed in your planting area. It would be small enough to load up with melon peels and kitchen stuff for a few weeks. Then you'd move it, cover the old stuff with dirt/mulch. Actually, (I would sell them and) you would buy two, one to work, the other to fill and let settle. Heck, I'll discount orders of three or more, I'm that nice. Like a giant bottomless cookie jar of kitchen waste. Can't you see a very large rustic pot as a garden feature? Who's the wiser if the lid covers your kitchen stuff? Dang, I need to learn how to weave baskets. Make a giant bottomless basket, with lid .Let it rot from the bottom up ok if I ever start shopping yard sales, I'm looking for a huge tall lidded basket that I'll cut the bottom out of .
That's my quota of strange unproductive thoughts for the day. Got to go!
This 'ole doc has a huge compost pile of aproximately two tons working with this summers waste including twigs and small limbs to help the pile get oxygen. Right beside that is last summer's pile of about the same size. It is finished and ready for next year's use. Aside all that I recycle and rebuild my potting soil. That pile is made right beside the finished pile of compost. The little plastic bin is just a fancy barrel compost devise by the kitchen door for the ease of getting stuff into it. It might even be called a bit of show biz that may not be needed. I have it to encourage others to take the Master Gardener's Compost School and get one free.
It does indeed get a number of folks started composting each summer. I always have a few buckets of tea sitting around to finish the conversation. I do not use much purchased fertilizer.
Sally--
When your brain gets working it is dangerous! ...and beyond funny!
Well-5gal buckets are plentiful, especially at construction sites, just be careful! Someone once told me the workers "might" use them as commodes.....If you pick one up, make sure it is empty. OR! HD sells their orange and white buckets for like $2.64 and also the lids. Under $4--I think for the two.
I don't think you will be able to cut the bottoms out of these--but you sure could drill them full of holes!...to let the drainings out and the wormies in....
I like the large, rustic pot idea--that would fit right in, and you could even put a HB on top of it and it would look great--no one would be the wiser.....!
As for your wish of a large, lidded basket....how about one of those woven, slatted hampers made from bamboo (I think)...That may be good for a few years, before the basket itself becomes compost. Check the Thrift shops! AND--It would have all the ventilation needed, right?
Now, doc--or anyone else--please tell me........
What amendments could I use to toss, hand fulls of, into my S.E.M.? I have done some dehydrated manure and some lime. And, before it became out of this world price-wise, I would even sacrifice some of my precious Kelp Meal. That was when I could buy it in a 40lb. bag. Now all I can get is the small, 4lb. bags of it for almost $10 (Espoma).
Another question.....A couple of miles from my house is a chicken farm. They sell the bedding for $3.50 per trash bag full. I have never bought it, as I have no idea WHERE I would dig it in--besides--I always knew that chicken manure is very high in nitrogen--but I could give it a try! And then toss some of it in my S.E.M. and see if that helps. Then I could also soak the rest of it in a big tub of water and make gourmet chicken-poop tea.
Your thoughts on this, please--seriously.......
This latter discussion is just way too much fun! Cheap entertainment......
Gita
Not sleeping, and still thinking. I have cut the bottom out of a black bucket from driveway sealer, surprisingly easy to cut. Hacksaw? We use it for a doggy waste disposal.
I was thinking about a bucket with three pepper/tomato plants around it. Pour water and scraps in the bucket, seeps out to plants.
thrift shop hamper, you're on to something. Altho I wouldn't want it instantly recognized as a hamper...maybe I'd dye it. .HB idea, good one! Wonder if a HB fits on top of a five gal bucket? Disguise the bucket with bamboo...
Oh .Holly Llama beans are free here!! U-bag it . And it does look like beans, They pile it by the pasture and parking lot, some parts of the pile have more sawdust and hay, others are very beany. I got a variety pack LOL
I have friends who have both Llamas and the Packies. They give away all their excess manure. Many folks put it right on or lightly applied right to the surface of their beds. It is not hot stuff but a very good manure that has little odor and breaks down slowly. I class it better than sheep or rabbit. This of course could be argued until the moon is proven to be green cheese. Bottom line is less objectionable to the human nose. Your plants need very little NPK when the organic content of the root zone gets above 5%. Work on that first 5% first to see whatever you are growing improve with your soil improvement. Figure it will take about three years to purge man made chemicals and rebuild your soil to include good working biology. After that you will be on easy street by just mulching and cover cropping with minimal raw manure needs. I feel some raw in the fall is best but even that can be argued if one is really good with the addition of compost or a mulch containing the elements of good compost.
The minimum size of a good working compost pile is 4ft. X 4ft X 3 Ft. with additions being added as the pile is turned. It is very difficult to get finished compost from smaller piles.
A pile this size will convert into finished compost if it is worked and turned once a week, in about six to eight weeks. Just build a pile and do nothing else and within a year you will get the same results. The first pile will be aerobic as it converts while the second year long pile will convert by anaerobic processes. In either case the mix of the pile must include as many different plants, leaves mixed in, some soil, some manure and added trace minerals to get the best returns. The brown to green ratio can be from ten to twenty to one. Less than ten to one brown to green and the pile will likely be rancid and attract fruit flies. Stinky and buggy!
Compost when finished smells like good rich soil and none of the contents can be identified as from where it came. The color will be dark brown and the texture damp and crumbly like no other garden ammendment. In the fast making pile the temperature will go up to a hundred fifteen degrees or higher for three days or more. In the year long pile the earthworms will do most of the work and there will be little heat noticed. Both methods produce excellent compost. It is very difficult to make compost in smaller containers. I have seen everything but compost coming out of the barrels yet advertising and lack of understanding folks often call what they get compost when they have not yet ever seen or made the real compost.
I've been reading through this thread and really enjoying it! I have 3 SEM's and must say I have been quite satisfied. It takes a while for me to fill one because I am extremely careful what weeds and plants I throw in. My husband does the mowing but seems to wait until some of the grass and weeds have gone to seed so I am cautious about adding it to the Earth Machine. They never really heat up that much since we are constantly adding to them. But they always break down and make great compost. Kitchen scraps and fine rooted weeds are the real basis for me.
Gita, needing extra browns I finally bought a straw bale which I keep next to them and use as a layer. Maybe that would help you add the necessary browns. I know I need to add more leaves as well. If I add shredded paper do I have to be concerned about the chemicals in the paper?
When I'm able to get fresh leaf mold from the county recycling I keep a bag of that available for layering. I do add grass clippings during the middle of the summer when the grass being mowed is short enough not to produce seeds.
I have never been bothered by shoveling it out the bottom. I fill a couple of 5 gallon buckets (usually on hands and knees!), close the door and then push it down from the top to fill the gap. That turns the compost a bit and it keeps working. I always have one that is finishing or finished, one I keep adding to, and the third for storage of layering material like grass and leaves. For extra nitrogen I sometimes throw in handfuls of blood meal and coffee grounds when I can get them.
But I agree that if you have to open them in the middle it is the devil to get the thing closed again! Gita's description of working with it was hilarious but I have never found them quite THAT diffficult!! Maybe I just don't mind crawling around on my knees to empty it and crawling inside to move the stuff around!
I would love to find a good manure source. What is your opinion on goat manure? We have a goat farm near us. Need to research if there are any llamas in the area!
Doc, you mentioned that you add coir to your potting soil. Do you have a good source for that? I am interested in using it in my Earthboxes next season. I have been following the Self Contained Box Garden forum but it will be expensive to have it shipped from the source mentioned there. I will pay it if necessary but since you live in PA too I hoped you would have a closer source.
Love the tips and info you have all offered on this thread!
Jessica
Nice to hear from you, Jessica!
Well, I finished putting down the mushroom soil today. It took 12 scoops, 6 pickup fills to put 2 " down on all of the beds. Boy, was that stuff hot! The steam and gas that rose from it was overwhelming. Right now it's probably melting the snow that's falling on it.
Doc, do you think I should let it cool down for a couple of days before covering it? I have over 200 - 30 gallon bags of shredded leaves to put back onto the beds.
Gita, The Toro Ultra gave up the ghost. I guess it died from exhaustion. HD gave me a new one!!!
I'm going to save 5 bags of the shredded leaves to start the new compost pile. I kept about 20 gallons of the mushroom soil too.
Hello, gardadore~~
So you never lift up the Stupid Earth Machine and move it? Like Gita, when I try to get the material out of the bottom, it is packed in so hard I can only scrape out a little hole, ;the rest stays up in there, whether it's leafy or all the way to dirt texture. I have room to lift the whole thing and set it aside, put the rough stuff back in and shovel up a pile of compost.
Goat manure can't be too much different than llama. Just smaller!
Stormyla, WOW that is a lot of soil and leaves. You must have happy plants. LOL
Two inches of any manure or waste that contains enough still making heat will cool as you put it on your beds. No need to be concerned. Do whatever you planned to do next. Go right ahead with your plans. The base is nearly converted horse manure and rough raw sawdust.
On coir.............I bought into a sale five years ago. Do not remember where I got it. I see it advertised in last year's garden catalogs. I would guess Google could show you a number of places to buy it.
Incidently......that five year old coir is still working at least in part. I add a bit more each year as I rebuild my potting soil in the fall of the year.
Straight coir or mixed, for pots? Wondering about the moisture holding- (too much) or draining.
Jessica--
To add to all things "stupid"---I am NOT able to kneel (forbidden by my Dr.) or squat fully to get anything out the bottom as I have had both knees replaced. This just makes it even harder to consider HOW I do all my gardening and planting and weeding, etc.....for years!
I guess I could lay on my stomach as I scoop and scoop! Wonder what the neighbors would think....???.....Then--how do I get up? Ain't old age wonderful?
I HAVE saved all these raked, shredded leaves in my trash bags---Hmmmm......I could just scoop some out and throw it in there---for the brown stuff--but now everything in there is frozen! Nothing is moving......
Wonder where all the fruit flies went??????? Is there an itsy-bitsy rainbow bridge somewhere?????
Gita
