Composting: What does or doesn't work for you!

This is my system. An old 1/2 gallon ice cream container that sits in the corner of my kitchen counter. Small scraps, egg shells and coffee grounds go in this. When full gets dumped into the old blue tote that sits outside next to the trash cans. I have a larger bucket that I use when I have a bigger job with more scraps that I fill and take outside to the tote right away. The old tote has a small hole in the bottom so all the juicy stuff can escape and when it gets full, heavy or I happen to have the wheelbarrow in the area it gets taken down to the big pile behind the barn. This is the part that just isn't working. Pretty much every thing goes into the big pile. grass clippings from 3 large yards, the neighbors leaves most all yard waste and dirt from what ever project we have been working on. There is great compost under there, when I need some for a small job I just dig into the side of the pile and get a little. The pile never gets turned it has just gotten too big, not very attractive either. LOL
We haven't been using as much as we have made but with getting the veggie garden restarted, my son Jamie is taking some for his garden and several projects with new and expanded beds in the planning I hope to get this baby back under control and contained in the future.

Great idea for a thread.
Rule # 1 is, home compost never finshes up nicely or quicky like they say it can.
My countertop collection is a produce or bread(buns, they're wider) bag for the usual suspects of kitchen waste. That can be folded over to reduce the commments from people who don't think of a couple fruit flies as pets in the house. That usually goes out to one of the sheet-into a tube- type composters that counties might give out. Dump bag, put in trash on the way back in. Nice because when empty you can roll it and stash. But only mildly effective when you have a lot of fall leaves.In a thin plastic you usually have a layer of dry leaves on sides and top eight inches, reducing the active part to about two foot diameter and a foot less depth than whatever you fill it to. Unless you cover it after getting well moistened. But check for cats first.

One year I hooked two together (bigger diameter) to collect a lot of leaves. Impossible to turn.

I get impatient with the compost. That's my problem. It isn't fast unless you work harder to set up. Too cheap and too many leaves and not enough free grass or manure for that.
The wooden bin helps things for me. The wood insulates the sides. Notches, Lincoln logs. Heavy but sturdy. With lots of fall leaves, I need the moisture retention and insulation more than air. I can lever the fork on the edge for more lift if it gets really dense to turn. This one got filled up last fall, and then topped with gourd plants for the summer. Now its ready. I'll break down and set up in a new spot.

I generally don't put any sticks or tough things in because they just get in the way later. I have a special place for them.

Sifting when I do it, is done with a three foot square of hardware cloth, edge turned, and nialed to a frame of two by's Frame doesn't have to be great. Make two of the sides long wnoguh that they can lay across a wheelbarrow, and you stand at th end and jiggle it front to back. There is a video somewhere Out There of a guy doing this, and the video quality is jerky, and it cracked me up! The way I feel when I'm sifting compost, when other Good mothers would be making kids make their beds.

LOL, Sally That is definitely a new ingredient in composting.
The idea was Lady's I just got it started. Waiting for Doc to weigh in I think he may be the most knowledgeable about composting. I will say that I am looking forward to using more of my compost next summer. What is under there is pretty good and with my heavy red clay I can use all the help I can get.

I have lots of opinions on composting, not necessarily knowledge- thats doc. !
The reason to turn, for me, is not so much the turn but to see what's going on in the middle. You set it up all nice, and it cooks for a week, and then you'll find it has dried out in the middle because it cooked out the moisture. Or you set it up all fall-leafy, and you find it turns into a sodden mess that will just stay cold all winter until the worms get into it in spring, which is OK maybe but slower, maybe.

I am getting more sold on lasagne style, or at least maximizeing ground contact and minimizing area exposed to winter cold.

Years ago we had two bins side by side made from wooden pallets with the fronts opened. That contained it pretty well and made it easy to get too. Back then we had horses, too so I could toss manure on top of the yard debris . That's why the Veggie garden dirt is so good 18 years of manure in that area.
Sally I like your set up. I have an old book that shows something very similar that I have been thinking about. Only difference is that instead of notching the boards they put in metal stakes and slide the boards between the stakes to hold them in place. Depending on the length of the stakes you can make it as high or low as you like. I'll have to see if I can scan a picture or two from the book to post. I burn anything that I don't want in the compost but I quite often worry that too many weed seeds get put in.

I try very hard not to put seedy weeds in compost. I throw them on the lawn LOL where they are in good company. Or some other trashy area.
The ends of my notches break off after awhile, but the boards themselves are 15-25 yrs old and stack even if some notches gone. I like moving it around. . OK, well, pressure treated, a no no for veg garden according to some, but we eat so few veg from the garden, and the boards are now so old, and the compost is spread all over the yard. and and...

Holly, thanks for starting this thread. Can't take a picture of my bins, I have to much snow to wade through.
I guess I am a somewhat lazy composter. Just toss it in and let it do it's own thing.
Sally, instead of shaking your sifter, I just put on heavy garden gloves and work the compost through by rubbing it with my hands. Hubby, worked it through with a flat bladed shovel.
When I was a kid at home we kept chickens and when Dad cleaned out the coop, all the straw and poop went into a pile. it was the best compost ever. When you dug into the pile the steam would rise up. Loved the smell, clean and earthy. We also had the best vegetables and mom had awesome flowers.
Oh, here is a hint: to trap fruit flies in the house take a very small bowl, put a bit of vinegar or vine in it, stretch a piece of cling wrap over it very tight, poke some small holes in the cling wrap, big enough for the Fruit flies to get in. They get in and can't find their way out, and drown.

This message was edited Nov 17, 2008 10:50 AM Edited for spelling.

This message was edited Nov 17, 2008 10:51 AM

Memories of chicken poop- Thats my speed!!! Yes I love the smell of good compost, and I get that when I use fish type organic houseplant fert.
Good tip, lady--but what to do with the other 400 ml of wine...oh dear...

I found the perfect kitchen compost container. It's one of those big plastic containers that the large size kitty litter comes in. It seals up perfectly so no smells and I just keep it under the kitchen sink.

Never put weeds that have gone to seed in your pile. I use anything from the kitchen including all my coffee grounds with filters, peelings, any vegetable or fruit waste, eggshells. Grass clippings are wonderful if you have them. I don't get any because we use a mulching mower but I have friend who brings me big bags of hers. The litter from cleaning the hen house all goes in there and I shred all my waste paper in a paper shredder and it goes in there. Any weeds that haven't gone to seed. Leaves are wonderful but I have so few areas where I can get leaves without getting black walnut leaves too I don't use those. If you have black walnut trees, you have the same problem. You'll basically be making your compost poisonous to most of your plants with anything from black walnut trees.

Don't use anything with meat or grease.

Try to alternate "green" layers and "brown" layers. There's a good description of what is green and what is brown here, as well as why it works best. All your kitchen waste and things like grass clippings and weeds are green. Leaves, paper, sawdust, straw are brown

http://counties.cce.cornell.edu/tompkins/compost/Lasagna%20Composting.pdf

I only have one compost bin but having two is a great idea. Then you can turn the compost by just shoveling it from one to the other.

BTW, if you don't have a paper shredder, get one. They're not expensive and you'll be surprised how much material you'll collect that will be going into the compost pile instead of the local landfill.

One last thing - put your pile in a shady area if you can. It will be easier to keep it moist in the shade.

So are ya'll saying that "my" way of the kids and I taking turns tossing it to the back corners of the yard is NOT the way to do it. Hey, I ended up with plum tomatoes growing via that method....LOL

I've tried several different methods and can't say that I'm satisfied with any. My spinning composter was just too heavy to turn. I liked it because it was closer to the house and was not an eyesore and was completely closed so no animals could get in it.

This year with every batch of planting soil, I mixed coffee grounds, composted leaves and some compost right into the planting dirt. I used up all of my compost.

I started two new piles this summer in hugh (quadruple sized) milk type crates. They started developing a fetid odor. Turns out there were dead voles in both batches. So I'm starting over now with one very large rubbermaid type of container with a lid. I'm probably going to end up using compost tea more so than compost.

One persistant problem that I've had with the compost is the tomato seeds stay viable and I end up with plants growing everywhere. I have access to large amounts of composted leaves and coffee grounds so between them and the compost tea, that should be enough. I occasionally add citrus and fruit scraps to my planting soil.

I may adopt the "Honey Hole"practise. My beds are so large that the tea is probably the best method. I did cover at least half of my bed surface with composted leaves already this fall. I will also be augmenting some areas with mushroom soil which I can get free in exchange for pruned branches.

When pricing mushroom soil, I found that several companies that make and sell mulch will buy your tree and shrub prunings. I always have plenty to these as well as downed branches from storms.

Stormy, if the seeds are still viable, your compost isn't getting hot enough. Try the alternating layers I mentioned above. I don't think you'll have any problems with critters with the Rubbermaid bin or with smells. I haven't with mine.

Chantell, years and years ago I got perfectly nice compost at my old house by just dumping the grass clippings in a corner. Of course it took forever to make the compost but that was okay.

Hart, I think the problem is not enough turning. It was actually getting too hot in the center, but in spinning it, the edges were staying to the outside. Sort of like the cake batter bowl not getting scraped. It seems like none of these "easy" methods work.

Hart, what do you do, wait until you've got enough kitchen scraps for a layer and then add the other layers on top? I'd have to use that because I don't think there will be anymore grass cutting this year.

I just keep one of those large, plastic "boxes" with a lid--the kind you buy things in at BJ's or Costco or Sams (a bit bigger than a shoe box) next to my kitchen sink's drainboard....kind of out of sight. All kinds of peaelings and veggie scraps go in there. When it is full--I dump it in my "dysfunctional" Earth machine.
The bugs and larvae and earthworms and fruit flies do the rest........it never gets full!

Since Sally's article--I will be trying to bury all this stuff in 'select" places. Of course--now it is cold and I am NOT in the mood for gardening.......

Gita

The kitty litter container gets dumped when it's full. That's pretty close to a layer. One basket full of the cut paper from the paper shredder is about a layer. Just alternate green, brown. Be sure to check the lists of what's green, what's brown. Coffee grounds are green, oddly enough. LOL Shredded paper is brown.

Because the kitty litter container seals so tight when it's shut, it doesn't matter if the stuff gets pretty rotten before it gets dumped. No smell, no bugs.

I keep saying one of these years I'm going to get me one of those compost turner doodads. I just use a shovel now, which is kind of awkward. But with the layers, turning doesn't seem to be that important.

I just make piles on the ground using the green/brown layer method. This is a photo from last winter.


early_bloomer

This photo is from this past spring. The old piles are in the back while the piles in front are the fixings for new piles. I run everything through my chipper/shredder. The piles are shredded up prunings from my apple trees, leaves, the old plants from my flower beds, bark and what ever else I can find. I'm always looking for coffee grounds as well.


early_bloomer

This message was edited Nov 19, 2008 8:26 PM

Hi Early, thats my kind of composting! But living in the Big City ; ) well you know.
Ready for more Lake Effect, UGH!

Earl bloomer, Lady's right . That is a compost pile!!!!!! Welcome fellow pennsylvanian, where is springboro?

I just started composting in a 5 gal container in my garage on 10/26/08. I had read many of the composting and vermiculture threads and just decided to try it. The bright yellow Tidy-Cat bucket I used previously held kitty litter and served for mixing potting soil last summer. I punched some drain holes in the bottom so any excess moisture could leak out. I use the top of one container as a tray to catch any leakage (none to speak of so far) and a second top from another bucket as the top. I haven't put any holes in the top, so sometimes I keep it slightly ajar for oxygen. The container sits on a small stool, so it is not directly on the cold garage floor. The material is shredded paper, a little compost from my outside pile for the microbes, tea grinds, and the veg peelings and fruit skins, crushed egg shells from my kitchen, plus a couple of tablespoonsful of worm castings, a little potting soil, some torn up leaves, and green grass that is still growing around the warmer deck. Also are about a dozen worms I dug from my shrub bed. I turn the compost with my hands (Atlas-gloved of course) about every five days. If it's wetter than it seems it should be, I add shredded newspaper or brown bags. If it's drier, I add a little extra water or wetter veggies. So far, everything seems to be just right--like a wrung out sponge and it's surprising how quickly everything is breaking down. You may be rolling your eyes about now and thinking, she's been alone too long, but it's fun, like an eco experiment. I can't say how the worms like it, but by the texture and the nice earthy smell, with no garbage odor, it seems like a friendly environment. I believe it is not recommended that one use worms from the garden (I think I read that they don't take to confinement), but it seems to be working on a small scale. When spring comes, I will cease indoor operation and let everything happen naturally outdoors. When DH and I came here in 2007, we couldn't find a single worm. Now, where I've used the lasagne method, composted leaf mulch and kitchen scrap compost, we have very workable soil with numerous worms.

Docgipe, who was mentioned above, has a remarkably knowledge of the science and benefits of compost. Soulgardenlove is another DG member who writes extensively of her experience in the Compost forum. I love reading these two.

I'll be using a little bit of compost from my large pile this afternoon. A friend brought over about a doz plants that she can't plant and wants me to keep them for her. Ric got out the little tiller and dug up a small area I'm going down to get some good compost and then mix it in. Just a small bed behind the potting shed I wanted to put a new bed in there any way. Who knows with this friend the plants may never go home. LOL
EB, your piles look like mine use to until I let it get out of hand.
Pam, sounds like you have a pretty handy system.

Hi Stormy............I'm right up there in the snow belt too--a few miles from ladygardener. In fact, it's snowing to beat the band right now! Here's a photo from last March.


early_bloomer

It is not that garden worms dislike the vermicast practices it is the red worms do a whole lot better job. That having been said then the red worms do not like the garden work. Neither run away they just do not get well established when out of their preferred medium. They may lay casts and die. The casts might lay dormant for years.

There are many varieties of white garden worms as well as red worms. The red worms that are native found in manuer leave casts while the adults die and become a part of the compost while at the same time the native garden worms will work back into the pile and stay unless you add more manures and greens to create rot from heat. Then the redworm casts will hatch and start another clan because they again have work they prefer to do.

Now someone will likely tell us there are no native worms.....yadda yadda. True but worms that have been here for hundreds of years doing good without citizenship or right to vote have well earned their residence and freedom to roam where ere they wish.

Ladygardener 1..................if you looked at the weather we have the tail of your lake effect strung all across Pennsylvania. Right now it runs from Erie to Pittsburgh and even further South.
There is first measurable snow all along that front. Most of it is going to stay an hour North of my backyard yet we expect and inch or so.

My fall gardening has been voted on as a non issue. It is now winter and houseplant playing time. We have four more lemons on our three year old Meyer lemon tree. Four have been removed and they are sure good. I've been sucking on Kumquat tea since the middle of the summer and they just keep showing up. Did not count but two three dozen would not streach the truth to much. :)

Ya all have a nice turkey day.

Gosh Doc, now I have to learn about worm varieties!!!!!! I was so happy last week as I now have started finding them not only in the beds, but also in the grass. I even had one crawl onto the patio and I was jumping for joy!!!! It was so strange living and gardening in a place without worms.

We are having snow right now here too. So far there's about 3/4" on the grass, but it's too warm and nothing's accumulating on the roads. I just drove home from my sister's home in Bucks County and there was about 2" up there.

Ah shucks just get your organic content up and stop using man made fertilizers that chase them away. I for one only want to know that I made a pile and they came. I don't care if I do not know them or that they don't even have green cards. :)

Doc, That's two good laughs from you tonight!! Thanks. Organic it is!

Forecast says we will get snow tonight also. It is getting nasty cold here lately. Nights in the upper 20's!

Doc--I never knew "castings" were 'eggs"--or whatever you call then.....I thought castings were worm poop! I have, again, been educated! Thanks....

Gita

Doc, My parents house has a small strip of dirt between the front of the house and the walkway. Last year Mom was complaining that the plants she puts there have done very poorly. Most of them were dying and the few that survived didn't do well at all. Even tho she planted shade loving plants and watered it from time to time. It is very protected, shady and unlikely to get much rainwater. Last spring Ric and I dug up the entire small bed, took out their clay soil and replaced it with dirt and compost from our pile. In the process we noticed that there were no worms in the soil we took out at my Dads house. I've never seen that before. We have a rather distinctive red clay here, anyone that has gotten plants from me could probably tell that they came out of my yard. My Dads clay was yellow, not sure if the lack of worms had to do with their type of dirt or something else. I know Dad had at one time in the past added some compost to this area but you would never have know that from what we dug up.
Mom was so pleased this summer that bed looked better than it has in years. What a big difference replacing that dirt made. We did put some of our worms into a relocation project but tied to make sure that families and neighbors were moved at the same time. It's also a much better neighborhood that they were relocated to. LOL

Holly,
That turned out to be a very pretty bed. Love the red and silver/white combo!

I have a similar, but shorter bed like that. It is from where I dug out my huge Kopper King Hibiscus. It was overshadowing everything there. Also--that is where I wanted to plant my new Chinese Trumpet Lilies-"Regale" that I ordered.

My KK will be fabulous next summer! It will have a round bed--all to itself right on my front lawn. I know people will gawk.....

Hey the doc goofed a tad..............casts are the poopers of the worms in which the the eggs are also found. They do not screen all the eggs out even though the eggs are smaller than the normal screenings of cast material. When you buy casts you get the egg bonus at least to some degree. We may assume the growers would try to keep as many eggs as possible.

When I make worm cast tea I often see eggs. I just let them go where they will which is into my potted house plants in winter and other outside pots when I use cast tea elsewhere. I do not know. Someone always wants to know the way......I just dump a cup of casts in a five gallon bucket. I stirr this inside the house as well as outside in the summer for several days to get a good soak and leach time. This is also my method with bat guano.

By mid summer I am using aerobic teas to which I add the extras towards the end of the brew. In that way they get aeriated very well but may not become aerobic. Still makes a better tea and could well be the best you can make or buy.

Doc, I was wondering about where you get your bat guano. Do you just scrape it off the picnic table, you know the one with the patio umbrella. LOL
Gita, I am looking forward to pictures of your KK. A neighbor of Mom's has a hardy hibiscus she asked me what it was as it was soo pretty. I guess I'll get her one next spring.
Mom likes red flowers so I usually look at those shades when I get plants for her. There are red, orange and white impatiens, Caladium White Christmas mixed in the bed. Last year I did these large pots of caladiums one at each end of the bed. They sit on the stands that my dad made several years ago. I saved the bulbs from last year and did the exact same pots again this year. This picture from last year shows what the bed looked like last summer, what a big difference changing out the dirt has made. BTW last year there had been some impatiens planted in the spring but they never made it. They told me that the front of the house looks so nice that the neighbors make comments when they go by.

Holly- you have the magic touch, is all LOL

doc--your Meyer? questions if you don't mind. Three years from seed, or since you bought? I have some that are about six months old, up to about eight inches, single stem, under a dozen leaves. How does that compare to the size you bought , if bought? My friend has been raving about Meyer's at her job and I might be able to sell some, but it's hard to know what 'the sources' are selling for 15-30 dollars.

Three years since I bought it from Lowe's for $24.00 with one on it. That one my first just amused the heck out of my simple mentality. It got nearly twice the size of the store bought lemons and had a kill for flavor. Mine is now about three feet high counting pot and all. It will gave us eight this year and is starting to bloom in process to put on next year's fruit. The fruit size has remained huge. As you can see it has paid for itself and has hardly gotten started yet. I just repotted it into an eighteen inch pot. I believe all Meyers are grafts. I do not know if you can expect to get the size and sweetness from a seed. They are selfed meaning that they are not polinized from another plant. In this case the grafting likely controlls size and sweetness. Doing a little deducting I do not know why they would go to all that trouble if it were not the route to success with a Meyer Lemon on some other rootstock.

Doc,

I was wondering also-------
With the price of lemons (..like $1 each!) it might be nice to grow your own.

Now--I presume they need excellent light--which I would not be able to give them indoors for the winter. At the best--I have diffused light due to my Patio roof outside the LR windows.

-Would you share some information on what you do with them?
-Where they grow in your house? HOW do you grow them?
-What light and fertilizing program do you use?
-Do they get much insect problems?

Thanks! Gita

Holly...........I get many of my organic treats from ARBICO ORGANICS. They run year end specials. Last year I hit them up on their Bat Guano at a killer price of only $2.00 a pound. Quick like a bunny I grabbed ten pounds. That should last me the rest of my growing days.
They were first to have and introduce me to Nematoads. The major thing they have is an in house doc Jennifer Bauman. She is an outstanding consultant. They were first to guide me into the use of Mycorrhiza. She speaks my language and purposes to build soil so we get along just great. To me they are a trusted source of guidance.

I saved some tropical bulbs this year. We shall see what we shall see. Some are in the soil in the pots and some I lifted and stored in shreaded paper with a few drops of water for moisture retension.

All the rest of my potting soil was recycled to a potting pile out by the compost. Is is reconditioned with fresh compost, coir, some peat, good garden soil and various light doses of organic fertilizer. This pile got the tail end of my two tea barrels. It is quite a mixture of goodness. The pile is three wheel barrow loads...maybe a tad more. All will be reused. The only thing I will do is check and maybe adjust the sturcture if I got a little heavy with the compost and other heavy elements. The last time I checked a month ago I had a great worm count in that pile. At that point I gave it a ground leaf blanket and tacked a piece of plastic over it to streach the season a bit and hold the leaves in place. Last night we were in the high twenties and sitll had a trace of warm humid discharge leaving that pile. I stuck my nose in it today. Nothing there but the smell of healthy rich potting mixture. The stack temperature was fifty two degrees. It will soon go to sleep.

Incidently that party thinking bat of mine finally found a new home or migrated. I can see no damage likely because the poop rolled right out instead of laying around to burn the canvas. What I finally ended up doing was opening the umbrella in the early AM. This was not to its liking so may have sent it snooping about for a better place to spend the daytime hours.

Meyer Lemons need Southeast to South West windows. We eat them. They grow in our standard home made organic potting soil. We fertilize with weak teas a mixture of any and all we have in stock at any given time. We have never had an insect problem of much concern. Neem Oil takes care of them or has to this point. I spray them good twice the two weeks before re-enty to our winter sun room. They like room temperatures of seventy degrees by day and fifty five by night.

Doc, I dumped all the used potting soil from my boxes and pots into a large plastic trash can at the end of the season and would like to reuse it next year. Wasn't sure if that was a good idea but from what you are saying I think with the proper amendments that would work.

As long as you do not try to use some unexplained sick pot soil there is no problem what so ever. You are starting off with a base that contains some pretty good biological content and better depending on how you rebuild your mediums with compost and organic elements. I build the pile up by my compost pile then give it a leaf cover and tie it all down with a plastic cover pinned down. I stuck my nose in it today and know it will be in dandy shape by spring. I don't know why but I sometimes get it a little heavy and need to ammend the structure for potting. I use coir most of the time to lighten it up.

If that soil was in a bed containing permanent plants you would not change the soil. In fact the only time I change soil is when I deal with pots. That's more to protect the pots and hold over plants than any other reason.