MorningGlory Associations,Clubs,Societies & Groups logistics

I am starting this thread for the purpose of sharing and discussing all aspects of the creation of any and all groups related to a common interest in plants within the Morning Glory Family of Convolvulaceae.

Please feel free to offer your views,dreams,wishes and aspirations including concrete logistics of the creation and proper long term survival and maintenance of any such groups...

I would like to submit that a prerequisite would require enough of a dedicated core of persons who are willing to devote the necessary time,effort and energy (beyond any honeymoon period) to insure the long term maintenance and survival as well as an equitable division of any and all functions and labor required by any such group...

Some basic functions might include (but are not limited to ) the following:

financial coordination
steering committee
public relations
editorial committee
taxonomic and identification section
registry

The call of "Hey,Let's do it !" is very easy for many to ring out and I've heard it many times before ,but when it comes down to the reality of who is actually going to attend to all aspects of the oftentimes hard work...the air can become 'strangely' silent...

Please share your thoughts and insights regarding the nitty-gritty,everyday,real-life logistics related to serious functioning in these areas...


Regards,


Ron


P.S. - pay very close attention to the long list of people who are both willing and capable to make the necessary long term commitment to attend to the proper functions of any serious endeavor...




This message was edited Nov 8, 2008 10:35 AM

Ron, will this be an online community or are there going to be meetings held on real-time?

Eliz

my question , also..

I will be honest on my part...I would be more than happy to follow a group just as I do here. As far as any of the scientific end that is beyond me and don't have the knowledge to commit that part of it. I do have access to a web builder..my son...so that is something I could possibly contribute, but it does cost to have a ongoing web site (just ask Dave! LOL) I do believe my son knows the ins and outs of registering a web site..note though that I am voluntarily volunteering him!!

Unfortunately I think the downfall here is there just aren't enough people with the knowledge that some others have to be able to pull this off...(and I don't mean that as an insult cause I'm one of them)

I do believe though if the ones with the know how and the willingness to know more were to come forward it is something that could be accomplished. But like Ron said "(beyond any honeymoon period)" can it be long standing? I have watched many people come and go right here on this forum.

I hope we at least get a few more opinions on this subject....

I would think it would begin as an online idea...

why couldn't the site be this thread ? do we have to have a separate website for that? just curious.. I have a website that is free.. and and there are other options I am sure, but I also am just now learning about the mg family..

in response to Dany's comment from another thread: http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/p.php?pid=5766450

I think most people are growing mgs for aesthetic purposes. However some people are also interested in both the aesthetics and genetic diversity of mgs because science may help even a little for:

1. maintaining lines of specific characteristics
2. hybridization purposes

I've been told that you cannot accurately predict what your mgs will look like due to many variants, and I do agree with this. But science could also help to a point that could even give us a bit of information. There is a lack of information or perhaps communication between North American mg growers and those mg enthusiasts and researchers in Japan (they are a bajillion light years away information wise from us).

I do firmly believe that an excellent group consists of members who come from different backgrounds: horticultural, scientific, those who just love growing them...anybody actually =). I come from a scientific background and I've been schooled that way for most of my life, though not an expert in Ipomoea genetics I kinda "applied" theories that I know of. The information that I know of now would not have came to be if it wasn't for this forum and the dedication and participation of members here on DG. So I would have to say that science + research + input of people (horticultural/experience/scientific) is a good way to start (not in order pleassssss, they're all important =D).

And another note about Kyushu giving away their throw-away seeds. I've worked in labs (only in school though) with design experiments or just for grades and blah lol. Even their throw-aways are not thrown in the garbage unless the lab are the lower level labs (first year usually). Research experiments are very rigorous and strict when it comes to their control and other specimens. Undergrads, Masters and soon to be phd students and doctorates have access to papers written according to the findings and if they've presented a good theory and require specimens, then there is a possibility that they could use the same specimen used in the paper that they are trying to investigate. They might not be as open to giving away those throw-away seeds because of these issues and that some people might sell them for profit with no form of "control" just going out to the public (don't know if this is the case for mg seeds though). This is why I think they're only giving away a limited amount of seeds to the public (I know, the scientific community sounds snotty, I don't want to get into the whole anthropological politics and culture of mg and the community)

luvsgrtdanes - note though that I am voluntarily volunteering him!! LOL.

joeswife - this forum is great, but I think we need to get the info organized and put together (in my opinion - but I am very anal when it comes to organization of anything as I've been told. This is a bad habit. but these are just opinions from an "anal" person as I've said). I haven't talked to any admin regarding the naming of mgs on the DG's plantfiles and I do not think I plan to do so. I've talked to them about Fuchsias and how some are named (under plantfiles) as Fuchsia hybrid "cultivar name" and some are just labeled as Fuchsia "cultivar name" and to fix them would take alot of time.

If this group will mostly be online then I can commit my time (I live in Canada and most of you guys are down there =(). I'd like to see the description of responsibilities though if possible.

how about using a sticky thread, simlar to the one for MG facts Beckygardener posted. While i am only mid literate at computer use (canNOT do code etc., lol and an VERY beginner in science of MGs if at all) if we started as Joeswife suggested from a thread and supplied links and the like from a 2nd Sticky Thread, Would it be Possible to do what everyone is thinking (if all are thinking the same) from there and more importantly... how would DavesGarden feel about ''hosting'' it??
thoughts..?...Evr you are right, being ocd myself, lol its a lot to put together!... but I think it would be online for sure, no?
more thoughts...

I've been reading this thread with much interest.

It is my personal belief that such an undertaking is going to be far more extensive than many might expect. I have no idea about the in's and out's of such an endeavor. I am one of those folks growing mgs for aesthetic purposes.

I can NOT take credit for the Sticky thread. You can thank Karen (blue) for that wonderful piece of work here on the MG Forum. She put a lot of effort and time into creating it. It is actually a work in process ... She adds to it when she feels there is something of importance. Thank you again, Karen! :-)

There is currently no such entity as a Morning Glory Society. These are not registered plants. (To me, that is unfortunate.) I think that there are some folks here on the forum that have inqired about it and found it to be most cumbersome and costly.

Are we talking about creating a Horticulture Society here for Morning Glories? I am a little confused at what exactly y'all are wanting to do.


This message was edited Nov 8, 2008 9:27 PM

The group created does not necessarily need to be 'my' group...in fact I don't even need to be a member...this thread is for discussing the potential creation of any group that I described in the first post...anyone can use the information presented as 'food for thought' in the creation of a new group...having whatever features that you like and find feasible...exploration of possibilities...the 'shadows' of things that might be...

There are other reasons that I started this particular thread which are as an 'answer' to a situation that I am commonly presented with and the particular situation goes something like this...

A) There needs to be some kind of official organization devoted to Morning Glories...Hey Ron (!),what do you think about that idea...(The person thinks that all that is required is to give Ron (!) a good Pep (!) talk > ! )

B) Ron replies - Gee,that sounds (!) like a swell (!) idea (!)...and I believe if this is worth doing,it is worth doing Right,so which long term function or service are you (!) willing to provide (?!)...

C) Respondent - Well,gee Ron,you (!) know so much about them,why don't you (!) put something together...

D) Ron - Hey,I am willing to contribute a fair share,but what I'm NOT willing to do is 90% of the initial work and long term upkeep...which brings us back to part B) mentioned above...and then the respondent is not quite so enthusiastic...

This thread is for ventilating and otherwise sounding off on the creation of any official Morning Glory related society...I've already done some of both...


"Ron, will this be an online community or are there going to be meetings held on real-time?"

This is for exploring potentials...and whenever anyone asks about the creation of an official group...I will direct them to this thread...which can be used by anyone to initiate their own projects to condense information and people in whatever way that they see fit...specific projects should be relegated / referred to their own devoted thread(s)...


Ronnie_Luvs - Your offer of a website builder is well appreciated...
I've had a couple dozen or so people offer to build websites for free as their contribution...but I will keep offers in mind...

"Unfortunately I think the downfall here is there just aren't enough people with the knowledge that some others have to be able to pull this off...(and I don't mean that as an insult cause I'm one of them)"

Thank You (!)...You get a Golden Star for echoing blatant reality...(!)

I think one of the most important Questions that need to be asked and addressed is:

What purposes should / could any MG group serve that are not already served by this website (?)

Eliz - You mentioned:

"I'd like to see the description of responsibilities though if possible."

This is a thread for the expansion of possibilities...make up a potential list as per your own vision of responsibilities and descriptions for any and all potentially concerned for any project that you have in mind...


TTY,...


Ron




This message was edited Nov 8, 2008 5:23 PM

We have a society here in Kansas for the upkeep and preservation of our natural plains,
I go to the site ( online) and read and follow this societys' endeavors, and very rarely see any activity or events or reports and findings..
I would want to see alot of reporting about the different endeavors of MG lovers for sure, and their findings, trials and tribulations, and for the most part, my love of the species is
because of the surprises they hold. I come here becuase I had no idea how many different kinds of MGs there were and of course was clueless about the Japanese MGs.
I experiment, just to see a result. I get disappointed alot.. but that makes me want to keep trying to get the result I want even more. I have never hand pollinated anything, I am only a beginner and need to learn alot. I have signed up for our counties' Master Gardening Course, and can't wait to get into that!
whatever the group decides, any help I can offer is there, as I have alot of time and patience when it comes to plants..

Debra - Thanks for your input,although I will refer you and Everyone back to a most basic and important Question that I presented above and that is:

"What purposes (or other functions) should / could any MG group serve that are not already served by this website (?)"


TTY,...


Ron

Ron: Great Question! I think most people that come to this website is/are/want to be an enthusiast in the realm of MGs..I want to learn the different strains, terms, plant parts etc. etc. .. I get that here..
There are still alot of people that do not know much about this plant, flower, vine. I think it would be great to have a group for educational purposes, for one thing. Maybe a scheduled time on a regular basis for a beginner... novice.. to come to and gain knowledge .
A single thread for this purpose would be good. I go all over the different posts trying to soak up what I can.
Of course, I want it all..

Debra and others - I fondly appreciate your desire to build a community that is specifically committed to Morning Glories. I really do. But I have to tell you that you will be hard pressed to find any other forum or website that discusses MGs like that which is done right here on this forum. This forum is active DAILY. Show me another forum that is this active ...

From my point of view, there are two main reasons to create a Society 1) to correctly identify and preserve the purity of many cultivars/species especially rare natives from around the world and 2) to create, control, and patent cultivars. (Number 2 would be of particular interest to those who create & name their own cultivars and would find it profitable to patent and sell those cultivars.)

I guess perhaps I am still missing what direction you wish to take a Morning Glory Society or Community?

This message was edited Nov 8, 2008 6:22 PM

You are right , Ron, after I posted, I went to the sticky FAQ and read... I learned alot right there.. we really do not need another website to learn how to perserve, share, study, compare and identify the different strains. If I were in a Society, I would want to be assigned to hunt out all the Native MGs, gather seed, grow and observe, since they are becoming scarce due to so much land being developed around here.
I am too new and naive to think about creating , controllng and patenting cultivars..
But I am a great Public Relations Manager on my real time job.. I could market a Society or Community easily. I have thought about posting a #Kansas MG growers/ lovers thread and seeing if anyone would want to join in on the quest for the unidentified. I have a meeting room at work that I could use.( for this state/region ) It is called the Green Zone Meeting Room.

Becky - The patenting of Plant DNA is done through a special Plant Intellectual Rights type of entity in conjunction with the US Patent office...not through any Plant Societies and although an official Plant Society like a Registry may register a patented plant...the purpose of a registry is to define the characteristics of a particular cultivar and to register it...these might seem to be the same 'at first mental glance' , but they are intrinsically quite different...

Conservation and Preservation Societies have a definite constructive purpose and could be part of and / or associated with an officially recognized MG Society or group of some type...

Debra -Thanks...will keep your offerings and qualifications in mind...

I have my Listings of the possible functions of what 'a' MG Society could do that are most definitely not possible within the 'virtual reality' of any website (although what is possible on and through a website could be greatly expanded upon) , but I will hold off on That List for some other point in time and space...

Still interested to hear what anyone else may have to say and / or contribute idea or structure wise at any point...


TTY,...


Ron

"I'd like to see the description of responsibilities though if possible."
Both of the plant societies that I belong to have main leadership positions of volunteers a President, Vice pres, Treasurer, Secretary, and directors for other countrys. Seed and pollen bankers are also needed in some cases. Then you will need a team of admins or moderators to help keep everything under control and keep questions answered in the forums and to start up new topics. I left several garden sites before finding Dave's because no one was posting, making comments, or answering questions.
I may also get a Golden Star for echoing blatant reality (LOL!) but things here at Dave's run so smoothly that those who have never been to another garden site may not know what goes into keeping things running so smoothly.
I would love to see a MG Society and I hope some day you all could get one together.
Good luck!
Caren

Hi Caren - Thanks for your contributions to The Question:

"What purposes (or other functions) should / could any MG group serve that are not already served by this website (?)"

I've also been a member of a number of other Forums and websites...most people here have the experience of what other sites are like experientially...and they can see where I choose to post on a daily basis...

Checking on how other Plant groups and Societies are structured is of course something fundamental to reference,but I'm thinking of approaching this differently...and not as a substitute or mimicking for what is already available here on Daves...or simply a copy of what other plant societies are 'doing'...

I am most definitely not thinking mainly in terms of a 'website'...although thoughts related to a website that might not be practical to put into practice here at Daves might be an option for a MG Plant Society site...

I also view specific plant societies as offering functions that work in conjunction with such a large website such as Daves...


"What purposes (or other functions) should / could any MG group serve that are not already served by this website (?)"

Think (!) about the Question that I have presented as the answer is not intended to 'compete' with Daves or as a 'substitute' for Daves, any potential website could be supplemental to Daves...if there is a feature that we could actually or potentially implement / integrate here at Daves then there is no reason to duplicate it on a different site...but the potential answers should not be limited to whatever is directly available on any website...a Plant society does not necessarily have to have any website as the 'primary main focus' or 'event' or function of any group or society...

Always open to input and ideas...

I always try to remember to Thank people for their contributions...it is a common courtesy...


So,Thanks again...(!)

Remember that this thread is not limited to anything that I might like to do,but is a sounding board for whatever functional structures that anyone else might like to think about implementing in some way that suits their vision...


TTY,...


Ron

Ron - "I am most definitely not thinking mainly in terms of a 'website'...although thoughts related to a website that might not be practical to put into practice here at Daves might be an option for a MG Plant Society site..."

Well, let's see ...

A book written and published on MGs, that would also have a section about the different cultivars and how to identify them.

Growing MGs, preserving the seeds, pollen, and of course ... documenting each cultivar with photos and notes.

Seed bank. Folks that will grow them and collect the seeds for safe storage. Someone would need to distribute seeds as well to those in the MG community. And folks to go out and abroad to collect seeds/vines from remote areas where rare native cultivars may be found.

Just a start ...

As a quick reply without a lot of thought yet, I believe one of the most important aspects of having a Convolvulaceae Registry is that it would help to have the different species correctly identified.

And more importantly the question of having the correct epithet applied would make it so much easier for Daves Admin to reference.

Because they have no easy place to reference 'that is accurate', there are still errors in the PlantFiles that should ideally be updated.

Emma

I agree with all the foregoing and don't really have anything new to say, here - just my thoughts on why an MG society might be a good idea -

To me, it seems that preservation of MG species and cultivars would be the main criteria for a MG society.

This forum is already - in an informal way - doing many things toward that end, such as growing out and trading/sharing seed; developing the sticky as an educational tool that enables folks to better perpetuate species, cultivars and crosses; working to make DG PlantFiles an accurate tool of identification; and probably other things I'm not thinking of right now.

Although this forum could continuously breathe life into a society that might ossify without it, an MG society could more deliberately ensure preservation of species and cultivars through some kind of seed/pollen bank; setting a definitive standard of identification through a registry as Emma suggested above; pooling resources toward aquiring new cultivars, species; furthering education via a book developed from this forum's cumulative experience and knowledge, etc.

I see an MG society as a relatively dependable resource of seeds and knowledge, that maintains reciprocal relationships with folks who by growing out seeds and returning them to the seed bank help to keep MG species, cultivars & crosses alive.

Karen

i think this forum serves most of the purposes of what i would want from a 'club'
however i do believe a more organised approach would be of benefit...
the word organisation can seem 'big' to people like myself who would only want to contribute within my comfort zone... so i think a club should allow/encorage all contributions from all 'levels' and encompass all areas of this facinating group of plants (allthough i think including all convolvulacea would be better, ipomoea is where we are all starting from)

i agree with becky's comments about the fact that most of it is already done within this forum but also think her idea of a 'book approach' with different sections for different aspects of the hobby as broad as it is... would be a good format to approach it from.

so i think i'll start with what i would enjoy contributing:
i could record what i'm allready doing... i.e. (and with guidance) any relevant data with regards to sowing, potting up, growing on, pruning, watering, feeding etc. that i could record either in a thread, in my journal/blog etc.... or through pictures (the flowers the leaves etc. for variety id use)... i'm sure someone out there has tips on how to take better pics.... or how to alter them in photoshop so they show the right colors etc... or even what picture to take for different purposes...

i'd aslo like contribute by maintaing the varieties that i like for seed distribution(trade)
i'm also interested in species... so i'm sure between us we could have the biggest living collection of mgs going :-)

i'm also interested in(tho' not at any great level) genetics... and will be crossing some vines together to see what happens... with guidance and by example i could record anything relevant during that process... i just need to know whats relevant.

taking part in trying to recreate "summer skys" for instance also interests me...

just some thoughts...
colin

I have no problems sharing photos and data for a registry (or book) as long as I am credited for those contributions. And everyone knows I am willing to share seeds (to spread the wealth and bring more awareness about this plant family to others).

If there is a seed bank ... I would expect those seeds to be shared among the community/society's members. I do not believe a fee except for mailing costs should be imposed to those members. I don't believe in stockpiling seeds unless we are facing a nuclear war. I am of the belief that fresher seeds grow quicker and maybe are more healthy? So the seed bank could be replenished each year. I also think it would be good to share rare seeds with members who have similar climates or can provide such a climate to produce more seeds. This would help to prevent the total extinction of a species/cultivar.

A registry would be excellent - showing different stages of each cultivar/species growth, blooms, and plant parts for identifying purposes. As well as additional information about each cultivar. I think of a Butterfly Identification Book or Society that gives minute details.

The sticky thread on this forum is excellent. I would love to have a book with such information in it along with MG IDs. That would be SWEET!!! :-) Karen -???? ;-)

Above are all great input ...a not so pleasant (only) possible side effect of said society/club could leave DavesGarden less filled with experienced (Thank you all for your help, answers, seeds, kind help and conversation!) to New MG growers coming here for information only to find, that the most knowlegable growers / collecters spread thin due to time spent elsewhere...the lol, voice of doom thundered in my head, sorry. Would need both to survive and interact. Devils Advocate signing out, lol...
d

i think fernman is right... i think that the reason other MG sites haven't taken off is because they do not get the passing trade that daves provide... i think we should try to keep it on daves as much as we can... with specific threads and karens stickies etc. it's all going on anyway. i know it's been mentioned that its hard to get the plantfiles altered but no ones said it's impossible yet... i believe that may just require another approach.
we have blogs and journals we could keep.

maybe we should try it out on daves before we move off in to the back of beyond.

I Agree with that thought..

I think the big plus of a MG "society" would be to standardize naming, and maintain a seed bank. DG has been great as far as helping a novice such as myself get started!

Joeswife planted that seed in my brain and my psyche took a run from there....we could, if somehow possible (DaveGardens permission again) keep it based here and if poss. do certain sticky threads for defintive concepts. more use of those would accomodate the need for a communities varied needs whethere they be aesthetic, scientific, seed oriented (I myself would love a sticky on how to tell more about identifying seed for flowers, as I have a load of noid seeds)...
:D

Thanks to everyone for their thoughts and contributions...

Colin,Darren and Debra - No one is thinking in terms of 'abandoning' Daves...I know I'm not...

Try to get past thinking in terms of just the functions of the Forum...

Newbies would be taken care of...it would be blatantly foolish and downright shortsighted to ignore the MG Forum...as the members who belong to official societies of other plant groups still post to the various Forums available here...

Think about it...could you imagine telling all of the people who belong to the Rose Societies,Orchid Societies,Iris Societies etc...that they should abandon those Societies because there is simply no need for them and that all of the functions that are served by those Societies could be instituted here on the Forums...please think very seriously before you answer...maybe familiarize yourself with what functions the official societies perform that are not something that anything other than a specialized society is expected and / or is otherwise 'equipped' to perform...

I feel that I am going to have to continually redirect practical and creative thought back to The Question:


"What purposes (or other functions) should / could any MG group serve that are not already served by this website (?)"


I can see substantial differences in the responses of relative newbies and those that have been involved for a longer period of time...

Thanks to Emma,Becky and Beth for your thoughts...

There *is* going to be a MG group,Society,Organization,Club and / or Registry created and functioning at some point...it is simply a matter of when...which includes any initial structure and when the founders find the time to initiate it..

The people who have been growing for a long time and are serious about it and / or those already involved with other official societies would know that an official society is a serious PLUS and would in no way be 'detrimental'...

Keep the Feedback coming...


TTY,...


Ron

I think one of the advantages of having an official club/society is that we might have a higher chance of obtaining seeds from Kyushu or other institutions. Also we might also get useful information as a group this way.

Another function that a group could have is that the naming of mgs could be standardized as mentioned by some (I've also mentioned this a couple of times, sorry for sounding like a broken record)

I will have to agree with Ron with regards to using DG and a club/society as resources.

Eliz

Although I am not into the "hybridyzing" part of Morning Glorieis, I agree that a central database for Morning Glories would be beneficial.

I have recently succumbed to the enchantment of African Violets. The AVSA (the African Violet Society of America) has a list of "Master Varieties". It gives the name of the "creator", a brief description, and a photo or two. I cannot tell you ENOUGH how often I refer to this program!!!!

While something of this nature could be years in the making, I would be more than happy to maintain a list of "varieties" - once the information has passed thru the upper echelons of the "society". (I am NOT saying I am a creator of databases, but I WILL create/maintain a list of the accepted M.G. varieties . . . and work on a database as well, based on what is decided is "needed".)

As for any concerns someone may have about leaving DG "out" . . . do you know how many Google searches (for African Violets AND Morning Glories) has DG postings in the results?!?!? More than half the information I am looking for at the time is posted by someone in DG!!!

JMHO

Nichole

Hi Nichole - Thanks for your valuable input on the topic...

TTY,...

Ron

I would be happy to learn all the varieties.. LOL.. but would be glad to grow varieties in different environments.. as well as document it all with pictures, and .. market the society/group/ club/registry.... and try very hard to find all natives in Kansas, Oklahoma, and Missouri.....

I could check for dry/hot/arid conditions. With adequate water, most all I have tried so far have done fine.
:Darren

of course, we still havn't answered the question yet I think..

lol

I think it is useful to develop the framework of the organization at both regional/national as well as at local levels. In support of the latter, I am trying to get a group of folks at my place of worship, who are gardeners, interested in JMGs.

Joseph thats a great idea! here in my time there is a Rose society, and a Bulb/iris society.. I have yet to find a MG society..

It is my understanding that there is no MG Society currently.

Becky, I meant in my town , but is there one that is national or even global? At least one ? i

None at all that I am aware of and I believe that Ron may concur on that fact.