good idea on storing the compost - never thought of that.
What type of compost would you buy?
No gardening is not my line of work, but seems I do have a knack for writing. Been a gardening enthusiast since a kid, but really got into the generalities of landscaping, gardening and land management many years ago. Just well informed and lots of experience. People keep telling me I ought to be in the landscape business, but I only do the hard work for my yard, mom and showing my son how at his house. Everybody else can do their own yard........I'll advise if they want.
If you want to get into the names and genus and this and that, I'm out of here though. I leave that to my Aggie horticulture brother who can rattle off the name, genus, family specie, etc. as if he was reading it from Dave's plant reference library.
Most bagged manure products are composted, many just long enough to eliminate the odor. You have to check. I think premium ones like Black Kow is composted longer to ensure seeds are killed, and thus the higher price. Not sure if keeping bags in the garage will really make much difference unless it is still actively composting. Sustained composting heat is generally what wipes out the seeds.
Chuck
Chuck if you like to write, and are knowledgable on a subject perhaps you can contribute to the Articles on Dave's sometime. I don't know where to go to tell you to check the rules, formats & etc. But maybe someone will. Here is some past articles. http://davesgarden.com/guides/articles/
Just called Living Earth Technology. Their premier mix for this year is:
Specialty Planting Mix
1. Texas green sand
2. Native hardwood mulch
3. Expanded shale
$42.50 for bulk cu. yd.
3/4 ton pick up hold 1-2 cu. yds. and it can be purchased 1/2 at a time
Lucky for us they are only about 5 miles down the freeway.
On our way!
Christi
Christi, next time your there (if you remember, no worries) will you ask how much their shale is per pound? Someone on craig's list has it for 7.00 per 40 pounds. I couldn't remember what price it sold for in the nurseries.
Also, if it crosses your mind. Ask them how mulch is harvested. We get ours from the city trimmings and someone suggested it wasn't safe because of diseases. I've always wondered if sold mulch was treated in any way.
Do those facilities have bagged products or bulk only?
I have been buying 40 lb bags of Organic Humus from Lowes. It is only $1.19 a bag.
It is well composted organic material and it works very well for me. I mix it with peat moss and it makes a great soil for potting plants or beds. I add mushroom compost and a bit of cow manure or chicken manure or a little of both.
I have had great luck with this mixture. I also use vermiculite on some things and perlite on others. Like Tar said the peat offsets the ph in the vermiculite.
I usually buy 30 bags of Organic Humus at one time from Lowes and they load it onto the back of the truck for me. It goes a long way and it is so darned much less expensive than other composts. For me it is just as good as the expensive brands. I think because it is named Organic Humus some people don't realize the compost value.
If I came home with 30 bags of some of the other brands, I'd be broke because they start at 5 - 6 bucks a bag.
Charlene
Most facilities have websites, and post availability and prices.
LouC,
I bought a yard of a similar composition mix last year to replace the sandy soil in an old bed. Also bought a yard of the expanded shale to mix in with other beds. It is fabulous for this area with the clay soils, or any soil really. I would add additional compost or mulch as it will break it down fast especially if you use organic fertilizer which promotes decomposition and worms.
Interesting side note, is that the worms seem to thrive in it. The shale keeps the soil loose, and works much better than perlite or vermiculite in beds or pots.
I recall the expanded shale was in the range of about $50 per yard. Calloways carried it last year for about $9 per bag. If you only need a bag or two, $7 is a good price. One yard is a lot of shale, but you can also spread it on lawns.
I highly recommend the expanded shale. Good for about 8-10 years in the soil, as it does slowly break down. Very porous and holds the air and water like a sponge.
Chuck
Chuck where is McKinney, TX located?
Yesterday I bought cotton burr compost in bulk. This was the first time I bought it in bulk and that is definately the way to go if you have a trailer. It cost me $40 for two tractor loads on the trailer. I usually spend a fortune buying it by the bag.
All of the locations have free phone numbers. I have already been and back before I found your questions....as in this morning.
They are super nice people and will help in any way they can. We got just 1/2 yard of the mix to begin with because it will be easier for us to spread and empty the pickup truck.
On their website there is extensive information about the way they formulate all of their additives. No prices I would guess because their cost is not stable. Everything is 100% organic and not treated with anything. The location nearest me does not bag, only bulk. However, much of their product is sold at the nearest Lowe's in the organic dept. in bags. Have the yard crew coming tomorrow as my ambitions are a lot more than my ability these days. Also getting alfalfa pellets and dried molasses from the local feed store. He has bales of wheat straw for planting potatoes...guarantees me there are no seeds.
Christi
I guess I need to visit Lowes ASAP. Last time I was there they didn't have anything like this stuff but that was some time ago. Which Lowes did you go to LouC?
Waxahachie. It is about 14 miles from me.
Ok. I hope to get to Lowes in Kerrville this week. I hope I find this wonderful stuff.:)
Christi I managed to find a whole ONE bag of green sand at a nursery in Corpus which is right next to my home town Portland. Do you mix green sand into your compost like you would a fertilizer or heavier than that?
Oh yeah I asked at Lowe's and the lady in the garden center said No, but I think they thought I wanted play sand that was green. Nevertheless, they don't carry it.
chuck7701: Hey there Chuck. I'm a Midwest gardener, but was checking out this thread for the info on molasses, etc. I don't know much about you, but as another self-taught and successful gardener, I would like to suggest that you perhaps pursue some type of arrangement that would benefit lots of non-DG gardeners and bring in some $$$. For years, after helping friends plan and landscape their homes, they would tell me that I should go into the landscaping business. As a (very happy) elementary teacher, I didn't see the need, and thought I'd need some sort of degree, but decided to try my luck doing some landscaping during the summers. For the past twenty-three years, I've had a thriving landscaping business, employing former students. Now retired, the income from this "hobby turned business" is very welcome. It's been fun, and quite profitable. Even with this Great Recession, I've had more business than ever!
With your knowledge, even if you didn't want to go into full-blown landscaping, there is a great need for "Garden Coaches", people who guide and help newbies do it themselves, without doing any actual physical labor. Reading your practical and invaluable advice in this thread, I am certain that people would be happy to pay you for your services, charging them by the hour. You could limit this to whatever extent you feel comfortable with, but I bet you would find that there is a niche to fill in your area. You could charge by the hour like any advisers (financial, etc.).
Like I said, I don't know your personal situation, but I gather you're over 50. We Baby Boomers can still make great contributions using our skills and knowledge.
Just a suggestion, but the world of gardening needs honest, knowledgeable, and helpful people to help make it better for everyone. Regardless, keep up your helpful contributions to Dave's Garden. I probably should have sent this as a D-Mail, but I bet this gets lots of seconds from fellow DGers!
HD tends to carry green sand more frequently than Lowes. Good gardening nurseries also carry it regularly.
Okay, I just have to say... my nearest HD and Lowe's both carry greensand, but it is the NJ greensand (glauconite), NOT Texas greensand. I've used Texas greensand yearly for the last several years, and wasn't able to find it this year. It DOES make a difference which kind you get. Glauconite isn't as high in iron as Texas greensand. If you have alkaline clay soils like we do in North Texas, and you're looking to neutralize your soil, or provide extra iron for acid-lovers like gardenias, hydrangeas, sweetgums, azaleas, etc, the glauconite will help and is better than Ironite (and doesn't add arsenic to your soil). But it won't do as much for your plants as Texas greensand. There's a noticeable difference, at least at my house. If you can find the Texas greensand, it's worth the hunt. Most organic gardening nurseries carry it.
Thanks for the clarification; I wasn't aware of this.
This is a good thread. You folks have things under common sense management. Thought you might like to know what is is Black Strap Molasses. I thieved this somewhere along the way a number of years ago. Just look at all the goodies in "Feed Grade" black strap molasses:
OOPs.............Now I have a challenge. My molasses document somehow got changed from JPEG to somehthing else. Sorry about that. If I can fix it I will bring it back. Don't hold your breath. It is little surprises like this that drive this old man nuts. LOL
Testing:
patiently watching
Testing: BINGO!!!!
MOLASSES COMPOSITION
UNITED STATES SUGAR CORPORATION
Molasses & Liquid Feeds Division
P.O. Drawer 1207
Clewiston, Florida 33440
09/29/03
Typical Composition of
U. S. Sugar's Heavy Mill Run Cane Molasses
Brix, spindle 86.0 degrees
Weight/gallon 11.8-12.0 lbs
Nitrogen 1.01 % C: N approx. ~ 27
Crude Protein 6.30 %
Total Sugars 48.3 % 2001 NRC Dairy Cattle
Density (as fed) 11.8 lbs/gal TDN @ 1x maint. = 62.4%
Dry Matter 76.5 % NEm @ 3x maint. = 66.8mcal/lb
Moisture 23.5 % NEg @ 3x maint. = 44.8mcal/lb
Ash 16.0 % NEl @ 3x maint. = 58.1mcal/lb
Organic Matter 62.5 %
Reducing Substances, as Dextrose 11.5 %
Sucrose 35.9 %
Fructose 5.6 %
Glucose 2.6 %
pH 4.9 - 5.4
Calcium 0.8 %
Phosphorus negligible
(not for use)
Potassium 4.2 %
Chloride 2.1%
Magnesium 0.27 %
Sulfur 0.78 %
Sodium 0.09 %
Copper 14 ppm
Iron 130 ppm
Manganese 5 ppm
Zinc 8 ppm
Cobalt negligible
Iodine negligible
Selenium negligible
Biotin 3 ppm
Folic Acid 0.04 ppm
Inositol 6000 ppm
Calcium Pantothenate 60 ppm
Pyridoxine 4 ppm
Riboflavin 2.5 ppm
Thiamine 1.8 ppm
Niacin 500 ppm
Choline 700 ppm
Back to Blackstrap Molasses
As I just spread dried molasses in my new beds today.....??????
Nothing wrong with the so called dried molasses............but it is grain chaff with a bit of molasses added to the chaff bulk. It is not realy dried molasses. For your bucks you get a very small compairative amount of black strap molasses in dried stuff. Depending on a number of factors liquid black strap molasses (cattle grade) weighs about twelve pounds a gallon. In our area the feed stores stock it bulk for making cattle feed. The per gallon cost averages about nine dollars a gallon....less if you have a five gallon container and purchase five gallons.
I can not tell you what percentage of the bulk in dried molasses is real molasses. We just know it is not much for the bucks. Two to four ounces of liquid black strap molasses in a gallon of warm water is as good a soil and compost booster as money can buy.
Thanks for the indepth information. Wouldn't this draw citters and more ants in the liquid form?
No difference what so ever. The so called dry molasses is just another way to merchandise the lowest grade of molasses left after making everything else. The major value is the molasses but you pay much more for it by volume in the dry form.
I bought heavy feed grade molasses (has a pic of a deer on it)It is really thick. I don't know how it compares to black strap.
Christi, I spread dry molasses all over my yard one year. It was the LAST time. Every fly within 100 miles was in our yard the next day. Since then I've sprayed diluted liquid blackstrap, and haven't had that problem again.
Good morning, Patty. I have used this for two springs now and had no particular problem. Am going to research where to find the liquid though. Didn't know the dried was not so good. Don't need anything to draw flies or mosquitoes.
So is the blackstrap the same grade that you buy in the grocery store? If so, how much do you dilute it?
Cattle feed black strap molasses is by far the best for gardening. It can only be puchased at feed mills that make cattle feed. You need to take your own jar or jug.
The molassess for deer found in sporting goods stores and even feed mills that sell it with deer salt is processed and contains a preservative. It's the preservative that kills the living biology. In cattle grade black strap molasses you get all the living biology. The living biology is better and the feed grade costs less.
Thanks for that info. I will use it up in the composter. I hope the preservative won't be a problem.
Well I hadn't kept up with this thread and was at a feed store this weekend and bought dry molasses. Should have studied up a bit more it looks like. But, now that I have it, what ratio should I try for my compost bins?? Any ideas??
sheila, I just put all over the top using a cup until I got it covered. This is my second season to use it along with alfalfa pellets. Seems ok to me. I don't know where I could get the black strap for cattle anyway.
So, any cattle-grade molasses bought at a feed store will be the correct one for garden use? I found one that is called "SweetTooth" for cattle, but the last ingredient is some sort of preservative. The farm store man said he wasn't aware of any molasses product that didn't have a preservative in it, but did say that this one was different from the molasses used for wildlife. Help!
Cattle grade and black strap is the same product. It may have a preservative but in this area it does not. Suggestion. It is so full of organic goodness one would be well advised to crack the lid and store the bottle sitting in a cheap cake pan. When warm weather come in full force the stuff sometimes likes to grow. I did not do this my first year....NEVERMORE. LOL Cleaning up that mess was a hoot.
Yes deer love it. I understand their might be a few white tailed deer in Texas. Been there done that. LOL San Angelos area had so many deer I had to kick a few aside to get into my set.
Thanks docgipe, I look forward to using it this spring!