My compost bin is not ready for use but I want to add compost to all of my flower beds this fall. I'm in Austin so the soil is alkaline/clay. I was at Lowes today and they had several different types of compost and I'm not sure which one I should get. Here's what they had:
* Black Kow - Composted Cow Manure
* Austin's Dillo Dirt
* Mushroom Compost
* Earht's Organic Compost
I also read that Cotton Burr is the best but I would have to get a truck load. For me, bags are so much easier. Any advice?
Thanks!
What type of compost would you buy?
Mushroom compost is just a dream in my garden and I am in Bryan, not far from Austin. If you have clay soil, Google lasagna gardening, it's worked miracles for my mom's clay soil.
I'm not familiar with the Austin's Dillo Dirt, but I've used all the others. Black Kow is a great brand. The Back to Earth compost is also good. I used mushroom compost last year--not sure I'd do that again. I got it to top-dress some thin spots in my lawn, and the smell was just horrible. I can deal with odors if it produces results, but I can't say that it did any better than any other compost.
I also recommend lasagna gardening, if you're making new beds. If you're working with existing beds, you can still do a modified version by adding 4" or so of shredded leaves first. You will still have to cover the leaves with compost or peat, but you'll need less (and will save money). The leaves will cold-compost over the winter. Then in the spring you'll find ginormous earthworms and your soil will be just wonderful.
http://www.soiltherapy.org/index2.html
we get our compost from here but we go in a truck and get a load of it but they do sell the bags and the locations that carry ti are listed ion the where to buy link not sure if any are near you but it is some good stuff.
Thanks for the replies. I am top dressing existing beds. These are beds we made a year ago by tilling the ground and then adding amendments and tilling again. I haven't added anything else to them except mulch over the past year.
I would love to add leaves but I really don't have much access to them. All of our trees are live oak - drop leaves in spring - and most of the neighbors have live oak too.
I just want to add nutrients through compost so I do not have to add any fertilizer.
Thanks!
One thing I would consider is what you are growing and how it would be effected.
Since you like me have alkaline soil you may want to add naturally acidic material such as pine bark mulch and/or Canadian peat. If you are looking for nutients to avoid fertilizing you might also add some manure in.
If possible, use at least 2-3 types. When I set up our SFGs, I mixed 5 types of compost (4 major types really plus a little worm castings - $$$) together WITH sphagnum peat moss AND vermiculite.
If I were forced to just use one type from your list, I'd choose the black kow. Not that the others might not be fine, but I have just a little more experience with the BK. Also, I think gypsum can help with the clay soil??? maybe someone can speak to that.
Carl
not an expert but Maggi and Ken in Big Sandy have even told me to add gypsum to my ground with the clay in there under the sand....that is what htey did at their place and the brugs and stuff they grow look great.
Have you tried The Natural Gardener? http://www.naturalgardeneraustin.com/ They're located in Austin.
They have cotton burr compost in bags here in Houston. I saw some today at Houston Garden Center. You might be able to find it in your area if you call around. I've always preferred sheep manure compost. It works wonders on rose beds, but you can't find it any more. Cornelius used to carry it, but stopped several years ago.
I should have mentioned that when I start a new bed I try to mix a couple of different things too. That way your more likely to get a better rounded nutrient mix.
What someone in East Texas does to improve their soil may be different than what someone who has clay/alkaline soil does. That's why I suggested pine bark and peat. Both are very acidic and help lower the p.H. of alkaline soils. But someone like Mibus in Tyler probably already has acidic sandy loam.
Last year we didn't have the money to buy compost and mulch, so I just used leaves that hadn't been raked because we were too busy at work. I was amazed at how much softer the dirt was where I used the leaves. Black Kow is a good brand (also the compost that The Natural Gardener in Austin nursery makes is very good), but when the oak leaves fall you should try adding those leaves to your beds too. I'm piling them on all my beds this year.
Silverfluter, have you not had problems with the oak leaves taking forever to break down? I had a large compost pile going and it was working well, but once I raked and added Live Oak leaves, it just stopped. It took those leaves a full two years to break down, even with a lot of other organic matter in the mix. I'll never add those to the compost again. If you're just using them as mulch, it might work better. Let me know how they work for you. Maybe I was doing something wrong or maybe it's just Live Oak that's the problem.
Crow
Crow, I have the same problem. Most of the browns in my compost pile are red oak trees. It always takes more than a year and sometimes 2... once it took THREE.
I have better luck adding them directly to the beds and covering with a little finished compost or peat. I've also found that molasses added to the compost pile will heat it up and help them break down faster. Great compost, if you can wait for it.
I'm a believer in the molasses. I found it at Lowe's after seeing so many good comments about it on Dave's and I had to try it. It good stuff. I cannot life a tablespoon of soil out of my beds without have earthworm. The beneficial bacteria in the soil must really love that stuff, buecause it's the loosest, most friable soil I've ever had in a Houston garden.
What is the brand of molasses that Lowes carries?
Sorry, Sheila, I don't get mine at Lowe's so I don't know. Hope Crowelli will come back and say.
I just had a funny memory that I oughta pass on. A few years ago, when we first heard about molasses as a soil improvement, we spread it directly on the lawn, as recommended, like fertilizer. Well... the next morning, every fly within a hundred miles was in MY little yard. Took a few days for them to all go away!
We only applied it that way ONCE. :) But we haven't had any problems mixing it in with something else.
Another thought....since you're in Austin, you might look for Garden-Ville products. They make wonderful potting soils and compost!
Stephanie
To the person up higher in the thread that's adding vermiculite to their mix--perlite would be better. Vermiculite has a high pH (up above 8 and usually around 9+) and the majority of the soils in TX are alkaline enough already. Perlite is pH neutral and will have basically the same effect; if retaining moisture and improving drainage is your goal.
I use it sometimes for bulbs from really yucky soils in parts of Africa to mimic their native soils--but even I use it sparingly and seldom,
Oh, yeah, Cocoa, I've used horse manure too. LOL. Our neighbors love us.
Sheila, you can get molasses at Marshall Grain on E. Lancaster. That's where we get ours.
Thanks Stephanie, I will have to do that. We just cut a tree down and with all the other trimming we have to do, I want to speed up the composting or I will still have leaves at the end of the summer.
Debbie...I tried the perlite in hanging baskets earlier this year and hated it. Whenever it rained or we were watering it would float to the top and create a snowy mess. I use the vermiculite mixed 1 to 5 of Potting soil for my cuttings and have great success. Also use it in my pots and baskets now. Could be a ph difference if I used it in a flower bed, but it works wonderful for my purpose.
I have two compost bins and haven't had to buy a bag of the stuff in years. I have much less garbage and my garden loves it. The worms are happy as well. And it is free. Just a thought. Oh, and I don't get into the layering thing that much. Even a lazy guy like myself can make dirt. :-) Z
Z--you are so right, I tend to be rather lazy about it and just sheet compost (different layers of mulch--different ingredients)
;)
Sheila--The answer I gave was not for you; the only reason I participated on this thread was that I was specifically asked by someone else for my opinion. Some people do know who I am from the PlantFiles and the Watchdog and they ask to hear my opinion. Usually, I stay off the TX forums; unless I am specifically asked by someone for an opinion.
Deb, I met you at the first CS RU, and I also value your opinion. However, I do think there is room for others opinions on any of DG forums. But I will try not to address your comments in the future.
Sheila_FW
from what I read, vermiculite's ph CAN be very high but ranges from 6-9.5 depending on the specific mine from which it originates and moisture content. As to how strong it's buffering ability would be in soil, I dunno. Certainly perlite is neutral. Perhaps the secret with perlite is particle size. maybe smaller particles would be less likely to migrate/float to the top?
http://www.schundler.com/pH.htm
fyi
Carl
Don't count out Vermiculite. Its pH will be offset by the pH of the peat. Also the CEC of vermiculite will help with the elements the plant needs. So use both perlite and Vermiculite. Just my opinion.
I forgot who asked about the name of Molasses,,, but I bought mine at Lowes last year to use in the 'Recipe' for Brugs + most everything else. The name is Natures Wisdom,Horticultural Molasses. I think it was around $8 or $9. for 1 gal. I still have about 1/2 gal and have used it many times for the
'recipe' .
jana
I began lasagne gardening 2 years ago and my beds are the best they've ever been. I used layers of aged horse manure which I get free from local barns (I pay teenagers to load it for me) and I found the most wonderful compost for $15 a truck load and it's from Angelina River Authority. It is the BEST stuff I've ever found.They will load it for you, too.
I hope you find something that works great for you.
Mindy
Ted, it's good to see you posting. How are you doing?
Oh, by the way, just one more comment on the molasses. I generally use dry hort molasses in my compost piles, which is about $30 for a 40-lb bag. But, for my fertilizer teas and my version of "the recipe," I usually use liquid molasses. And for that, I just use blackstrap molasses from Alby's baking section--the same stuff I use for gingerbread and baked beans. I don't know how the cost compares, ounce for ounce. But if you're making a liquid, you don't need to use very much at a time, and there's virtually no difference in composition between hort and food grade. So this way I don't have to make the longer trip to Lowe's to get it, and I don't have to find room to store a whole separate gallon of the hort grade with my gardening supplies.
I bought some horticultural molasses. That stuff is thick. I dilute it in water before I add it to the compost but that stuff is so thick it just sits at the bottom of the container. I almost feel like putting it it the blender first! I can see that the dry is more convenient.
I was just catching up on this thread. Boy I know what you mean by oak leaves! No matter how I shred shred them or what I add they take forever to compost. But the thing is that leaves contain something like 80% of the trees nutrients.
Leaves break down much faster if you have the correct carbon to nitrogen ration. http://www.composting101.com/c-n-ratio.html
Faster, but I've followed the directions to the letter and oak leaves still take a long time.
Crow, you're right about oak leaves taking forever to break down, but I don't use them in compost. Just as mulch. I didn't go back and reread my last post. Maybe I was confusing. That happens.:) I had planned to put down a layer of manure in all my beds this fall, but it hasn't happened yet.
"Dillo DirtTM" is a compost made by the City of Austin since 1989. If you know Austin, you will not be surprised to learn that it was the first program of it's kind in the state and one of the oldest in the nation. All yard trimmings collected curbside across the City as well as some of our treated sewage sludge are combined and composted to create Dillo DirtTM. The heat generated in composting (130 to 170 degrees Fahrenheit) is sufficient to virtually eliminate human and plant pathogens. After active composting for over a month, our compost is "cured" for several months, then screened to produce finished Dillo DirtTM.
The two I would recommend are:
http://www.garden-ville.com/4429472_36600.htm
http://www.naturalgardeneraustin.com/ (mentioned above)
I have used Garden-Ville/San Marcos for years and have always been pleased with their soils and service.
I recently purchased a cu yard of their Rose Soil which is a blend of manure compost, red sand, black pine bark, and composted top soil. This mix is great for all acid loving plants making it my choice for the raised beds I am building in my veggie garden this year. I have used it in the past for roses and it is wonderful soil.
If you have access to a pickup, buying bulk is by far less expensive than buying by the bag. I paid $40 out the door for the cu yard loaded into the bed of my pu (short bed). To give you some idea of the volume of soil I got for the $40, it only took 1/3 of the cu yd to fill (heaping full) a 2'x6'x6" cinder block raised bed. I could have had 12 yards delivered 25 miles one way for about $125 extra, but I go to San Marcos often enough that I can pick up a yard as needed.
If you are interested, drop by one of their locations (check their website for a location nearest you) and pick up list/prices of soils, composts, and mulches. I may be able to scan my copy and email it to you if you like.