fereal,
The regrettable truth is the nature of humanity is to seek out the path of least resistance. We're ending up with a country run by an electorate of mediocrity. A high % folks like my neighbor who keep (kept in his case) Pit Bulls on isolated land parcels to protect their chickens makes me cringe. The cyberageous person may be a great DG forum member ... but I'd not want em living in close to me. It would force me to keep a loaded gun where ever I walked ... because their dogs (admittedly) get loose. Their dogs (admittedly) are trained to protect and maim. I'm not wondering why all the dog protection is needed on a remote Everglades land parcel but I'd bet my bank account that their cash crop is closely associated with the description "old hippy types". There are millions who choose recreational activities that are illegal. We all have a right to our hobbies and recreational habits and activities and most of us have to make money to live and retire. Many are prepared to pay the price of doing wrong but the vast majority of people who do wrong do not pay for their antisocial behavior. I prefer and recommend the old fashioned way ... earning an income by contributing to the greater or greatest good of society and being in step with your community's overall standards. I'm very old fashioned ... smelled pot twice in my life.
Yeah those darned coyotes ... this thread got way too serious.
Kelly in Moxee
This message was edited Sep 11, 2008 10:32 AM
COYOTES ... free ranging danger
LMAO!!!! Well Photographer, once again I disagree. There are a few points I do agree on, but not enough to make a ripple. At least we can agree on disagreeing my internet friend ; )
"Pit bull" in the popular and even legal mind includes so many varieties and mixes of dogs that outlawing them would probably end up affecting responsible breeders and owners more than the dangerous street owner.
I've been involved in rescues of "pit bull" dogs and in general the more truely "Bully" they were, the better the temperament.
To generalize and say any entire population of dog is bad because of the breed is wrong. By and large, Pitt Bulls are wonderful dogs able to fill many rolls in life including therapy and assistance dogs. They are loyal, gentle and strong. Not a breed for everyone but certainly that can be said of any breed. Should they all be outlawed?
If you are having problems with coyotes invest in a jackass or a mule. Problem solved. But keep your dogs away from them.
CajuninKY,
There are legal and safe and sane ways to control coyotes for sure.
There is no danger to any dog breed from being legislated out of existence. It simply will never happen. Large cities nationwide could make it unlawful to own American Staffordshire (AmStaff) dogs and have no effect on the breed as a whole. There are other issues surrounding the legislation of making specific breeds illegal ... not necessarily the dogs at all. Mostly the issue is the individuals who choose to own the dogs. Those people ... in general terms ... are criminals of one or more types. The dogs are used to help them evade the police ... evade being arrested ...and other things too. The dogs are trained to the become tools of criminals. So it is not really a bad thing to take away tools from criminals in high population centers. The laws simply reduce the criminal activity within the city by taking one more tool away from the criminals. What the city laws do is push the dogs with their owners out into the countryside and the criminal behavior along with them.
Kelly in Moxee
The whole thing is just really a sad state of affairs and has given this breed a terrible legacy that I feel is truly undeserving.
Coyotes are a problem here and most people with livestock uses donkeys and mules to guard their herds. They work great and they are entertaining characters.
I agree that legislation could not eradicate a breed entirely. There are too many people who love the animals for that to happen. What I see as very unfair is that certain breeds are targeted because they are used and abused by criminals and the animals get treated as if they are the criminals rather than the victims. How about this scenario; a handicapped person has a breed of dog as an assistance animal. Let's say it's a Rottie the person needs for it's size and strength to do the particular task the handicapped person requires. Then the state they live in votes a ban on Rotties because thugs use them. The handicap person will either lose their highly trained companion who makes life livable for them or they have to move to another state. Or perhaps the person lives in a state where the breed is legal but unknowingly travels through a state where they are
banned and has their partner confiscated. It's not a farfetched scenario and it's something we all need to think about.
You know a really dangerous cross would be a Rottie/Pit Bull--serious stubborn guarding crossed with tenacity and gameness. But the most dangerous, in my opinion, would be a Pit Bull/Teacup Poodle. Those little dogs have no inhibitions. (Now don't get mad at me! I love Toy Poodles. But the only one of my potentially dangerous dogs that has bit anyone is the 20lb Boston Terrier.)
My cousin's husband decided they (he) needed a Fila Brasileiro--the very large, very aggressive national dog of Brazil. It is a nightmare with strangers and is meant to be. In dog shows one of the qualification for a first rate Fila is that they not allow the Judge to approach them. My cousin's poor dog has been socialized religiously and still bit a family friend it knew well when she was helping my cousin unload the car. It is not a bad dog and very reliable with the family--but it was bred to guard remote plantations, take down jaguars and hunt escaped slaves. It is not a suburban type of dog--but it is not its fault it ended up there.
This message was edited Sep 16, 2008 4:31 AM
Those kinds of situations are very sad for all involved but especially so for the animal. They cannot decide their destiny as to where they go or what kind of people end up with them. People have to be smarter in their decisions as to what kind of dogs they get and what kind of dogs they breed.
I'm with you on the crossbreeding. We have had many pit bulls and have never had a bad one. The best dog I have ever had in my life was a pure bred pit female. She was the ultimate family pet and protector. Not aggressive, just always on guard to protect us if we needed it. She took her cues from us as to whether a visitor was welcome and safe. She was super intelligent and perceptive. When we had her, we also had a minature dacshund (sp?) and we were very careful to keep them apart when she was in heat. Those pups would have been some very dangerous animals. IMHO a pit should never be crossed with any other breed. Pits in general are not people aggressive but many other breeds are who do not have the reputation of being so. On the rare occassion when a pit does attack it has the physical capability to cause huge amounts of damage. Crossing "can do" with "will do" is very dangerous and irresponsible in my thinking. JMO.
Exactly. I think it is a very common family dog, possibly the cocker spaniel, that has the highest incidents of unprovoked bites--but because the damage may be relatively minimal--it doesn't occur to people that crossing a stable pit bull with a less powerful but less stable dog is a recipe for disaster. And anyone who allows their dogs to run free in packs is insane if they think "Fluffy" won't take joyous part in an attack and kill.
I lost one of my cats to the neighborhood's odd couple, a terrier and a German Shepherd. It was only later that I read that that combination is a particularly lethal and common one in "pet" dog pack attacks. The terriers are game and will incite the attack and the German Shepherds are smart, powerful and very successful in the execution.
But I don't blame the dogs.
Owners should be required to be smarter than their dogs. LOL
:0)
Good theory Cajun! Now all we need is bureaucrats with intelligence and discretion to enforce it...
CajuninKY, The concerns about dog breeds being banned in any one state are .......... totally unfounded. We'll all be dead and gone before anything like a statewide ban is discussed in any state legislature. This subject has been kicked to death and should be a non-issue unless one happens to reside in a specific town or county where the dogs are outlawed or there is a debate happening about a ban in your community. My opinion is important in my community and nowhere else on the subject of banning dog breeds. The worst part about these dogs that are owned by individuals who are criminal types is the existence of the dogs are miserable. It is a regrettable fact that as the populace arm themselves with dogs ... that the dogs pay the price. Laws banning breeds have the effect of potentially removing thousands of fighting dogs from counties. The end of that kind of lifestyle for fighting dog breeds is a blessing ... even if if means the all the fighting dogs are put down or removed from a county. Fighting dogs to death or near death or using them to attack the police or just the citizenry is heinous.
Kelly in Moxee
Laws varying from community to community are even worse than state to state. How can a traveler know the laws of every community?
Do criminals use dogs as weapons? Many do. They also use guns, sticks, cars, rocks. A whole miriad of things. We can't target one.
Do the dogs who belong to criminals suffer? Many do. (I pray they are delivered from their awful lives) But so do many labs, poodles, cockers and every kind of imaginable mutt at the hands of people who just don't care.
We can't throw the baby out with the bath water and target certain breeds making the animals bear the blame for the person's faults.
What about the rights of the great dogs and law abiding citizens who live in those affected comminities who have chosen to ban by breed?
CajuninKY,
The darned coyotes ate 2 of my adult guineas the day before yesterday. We're almost down to what we started with this spring. I can hardly wait for the field to be harvested where the coyotes are hiding to kill my wandering poultry.
Animals only have right granted by humans. Sorry.
Kelly in Moxee
This message was edited Sep 17, 2008 7:19 AM
That's because humans own the ecosystem, control the ecosystem, and haven't the wit to do it wisely. Talk about an age old problem...
Well, not to worry. Global warming will fix us right up! Sorry, sucks but true.
Olways luuk on the broight soid of loif, do-do, da dododo do-do.....
We haven't hit Monty Python here, have we...
Blessed are the cheese makers(you would have to have watched monty python to get that!)
LMAO!!! " We are the knights of Nee, we demand a shrubbery"!
Beware that most dangerous of animals: "The clever sheep"
Daaarling, You didn't open the caaanned saaalmon...
Okay, so now we all have to (DLDaddy who is only 2 hours further off than) myself included,
1) go to Jacob's Cave
2) drink heavily and eat cheese and chocolate
3) wield chickens with vim, vigor, and vehemence
4) quote Monty Python ad infinitum
5) keep a photo diary which is a good record and yet embarrasses no one
Cats, don't you have any frequent flier miles coming??
We should also bring coconut halves, get liquored up, and run around clapping 'em together like we're riding lil ponies around : ) (Whilst quoting Monty Python's Flying Circus or any of the Monty Python movies!
Yes, I'm a dork!
I'm glad you clarified--Hate to think what I thought was coming after coconut halves, liquored up and run around.
My imagination is now running wild!!!!!
Patch,
Are you guys older than me. I NEVER watched ANY of the Monte Python stuff when it came out. Wasn't it on PBS from made by BBC? I was really into SNL back in 1972-3-4-5-6 ... 1970's ... the early originals. It sure is a fraction of what it used to be.
Kelly in Moxee
I am 41 and grew up on it. I was a big British humor and music fan. Still am. Now if we have any "Grey gardens' fans here... We could really have some fun with some skuuurrrts! I am known as the little Eddie of morehead. Sorry if you don't know the cult film you wouldn't understand and we are supposed to be talking about our chickens!
Geo
You missed it? We are using our chickens to stage a Monty Python Revival.
Someone once gave me a coyote puppy. Now Im used to dogs, but i can tell you a coyote is not exactly like a dog. I started to see weird things in the yard - a plastic foot with red toenail polish on it. Kids toys from way way up on the hill. I didn't see him go there but there was the evidence.
His favorite thing to steal was my neighbor's bikini underwear from her clothesline. He had a whole pile of them in his bed!
And then he killed a chicken. So he had to be tied up. But the red rooster would pace back and forth at the end of coyote's chain. Then one day, there was the red rooster in coyote's bed! There was no stopping him. You can't make a coyote into a dog - but i sure did try.
Finally his young life of treachery was ended when he was hit by a truck in the road in front of our house.
This message was edited Sep 18, 2008 2:20 PM
George,
I was a working single father when that stuff hit the TV. I raised my 1st child ... son named George ... from age 2 months to age 5 as a single dad. I had NO time for TV. Now I know why the Monte Python stuff never made an impression. I also went without TV for 3-4 years in the 80's. I have little use for TV even today.
Kelly in Moxee
I didn't have TV or want to watch it after my divorce. I missed all the shows like "friends' and "the golden girls" Now we live too deep in the woods for even dish TV, but have DSL. We have netflicks and most major networks have free full length shows on. I just run them through my computer to the TV. So I get to watch TV that way. I don't watch it much in the warm months, but really like it in winter. We also buy a lot of DVD off ebay, so have quite a collection to pull from if we get bored. The shows I do miss are CNN, geographic channels and A&E. They don't really let you watch them for free. I also have an external hard drive I send to a friends house and she records the shows I really like. Bones, house and criminal minds are my favorites at the moment.
Being a single dad had to be hard. We are a 2 dad household and sometimes feel like pulling my hair out, but the oldest is now 17, next 16 and our little girl(need to stop calling her that) is 13. It seems like yesterday I was giving the 17 year old baths. Now we are looking at colleges!
George
In Berkeley it is considered very bad form to like TV.
But....
"I'm a rebel and I've never been any good.
I'm a rebel cause I never ever do what I should."
I LOVE TV!
Catscan,
You're not alone in your likes. TV is turned on at the average hh 8 hrs a day. We just turned it on after being off for about 18 months.
Kelly in Moxee
Oh, I'm pretty unusual in my likes--nobody watches what I watch. But I love watching it. Nobody to talk to about the shows except my poor corrupted children.
Now Cat, What shows do you watch? I am not a "normal" TV watcher either.
Okay, George--I'll edge into this gradually.
First I never watch serial stories or network TV--not snobbery, just rarely get down there and haven't been motivated to climb out of my forensic/documentary/gardening/Depeche Mode/NC and the Bad Seeds/oddity rut. I did watch the first two seasons of My Name is Earl and liked it.
Oh! I'll be back. The History Channel's Modern Marvels is doing "Molds and Fungus"!
Such fun!
One ounce of codryceps infected caterpillar can bring $500 in China! Fungi are neat--and profitable.
Now how to infect caterpillars with cordyceps?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetable_caterpillar
So cat you must give Criminal minds, Dr. G, Bones at least a try. I would be embarrassed to tell you the documentaries we have recorded. I also have to say I love cult films. John waters is one of my favorites and love "Greys garden" about the Beales of south Hampton(Jackie O's crazy aunt and cousin) Do a youtube on them.