basic how to on propagation based on my experience

Dave, I really find the aeroponics more fascinating than the hydroponics. Maybe because I have never figured out how it works so well even tho I have seen it in progress. Last winter I tried hydroponics with a couple of tomato plants in my kitchen but they got so big I had to take them apart when spring came on. I did actually have a couple of tomatoes on them.

Jeanette

That is great Lorraine. To answer you gals question, why use styrofoam, because when the water gets lower due to evaporation or usage by the plants, the roots are still in water this way. Floating happily around like Lorraine shows. And, I don't know how much it would cost to buy the styro, but I would imagine you could get it in sheets at craft shops, or I know there are places that sell all kinds of it and all widths. I just don't remember where you would look in the yellow pages for it. And, to get to what I was going to say, I would just break the foam off of the plant.

Good picture Lorraine.

Jeanette

I bought that, then went outside today and found a box that had been packed using styrofoam and it was still in there!!! I wonder if you could cut the bottoms out of styro. cups and use it. Could cut about a 1/4 or 1/2 up from the bottom, then the tops would be protected?

You know what else would work. You know those little styrofoam coolers!!! They are only a couple bucks and you could cut a bunch of pieces!

On the styrofoam -- how about the disposable plates? You could get a bunch of smaller circles from one of the dinner plates. Or maybe they wouldn't be heavy enough to support the plants? Just a thought.

You guys are on a roll. I don't know if they would fill with water thru the holes. The plates and cups. I think they might be too thin to keep the water out. But, the ideas are great. I love the coffee cups. As long as there is no movement in the water they might work. Best thing is to try them. Now the styrofoam coolers are thicker. Also, this is really getting crazy, but if yu were to take a piece of the thicker foam and put it in the bread slicer things, you know for the bread machine slices, using an electric knife to cut it the thickness you want. LOL Actually, if you were to cut the foam at all I think the electric knife would be the best thing no matter what kind of foam, or how thick etc.

I am going to have to show you something I tried. Here are a couple of pictures. What they are, I took a glass bowl about 8 inches across and put expanded clay balls in it. I use them in hydroponics. Should say, first I soak the clay balls overnight in water. Then I put these cuttings in there, not deep, and add about a half to an inch of water. I just took 3 coleuses out that I had in there and planted them in soil. One had roots about the size of a ping pong ball. I left them in there too long 'cause I didn't know what I wanted to do with them.

But, you can see that they are looking good. I took these pictures about an hour after I put them in there. I just went in and looked and they looked just as good but when I touched the top flower it fell off. It had not wilted at all but I should not have left either flower on it. But all of the cuttings look just as good as when I put them in there. They get the moisture from the clay balls. Not in water. So they don't rot. Here they are.

Sorry I should not have sent this one. It was the last one I took and getting dark outside. They are next to a window. Jeanette

Ok, here is another one. Sorry I can't seem to look at these and pick the best. I should have edited them before I tried this. Here is another one. It is a little bit clearer.

Jeanette

I was looking for my messages. They took a long time getting to this forum. So I did an edit here. Just ignore it.

BTW, these cuttings are Thunbergia. A couple are the Sky Blue Florabundas. Very pretty. I haven't started them this way before so it will be interesting.

I am sorry I didn't take a picture of the coleus with the roots so big. They had grown around and attached to a lot of the clay balls so I just planted it that way. It would have been a good picture. Maybe tomorrow I will unplant it and wash it off and take a picture of it for you. LOL

Jeanette


This message was edited Aug 22, 2008 10:12 PM

Hello to all.
I just found this thread and want to thank Pughbear for sharing his knowledge. I noticed that you mentioned rooting Rose of Sharon. This is one that my DH has asked if I can root so I'll be watching. I've also wanted to root Hydrangea. I have had only limited luck with these. I have not tried the water methods. I can't think of what you call it, but basically using a rooting hormone and putting in a rooting medium.

My initial question concerns timing. I thought that I read that cuttings should be taken early in the spring when the plant is putting off new growth.





This message was edited Aug 23, 2008 6:12 AM

Hope you're feeling better dave. I don't have anything needed to set up for hydro or aeroponics. If one of these rooting methods is cheaper &/or less time consuming, with better results, I'm for it. I've been rooting things in vases of water for 50 yrs at least. I like watching the roots develop. I would like to know how you figure out which cuttings benefit from a stem scrape & not sure where on the stem it should be scraped.
I know this is crazy for you, addressing all our questions with all of us using (or wanting to try) different rooting methods. I appreciate you for doing this Dave.

Lulabelle,

Hydrangeas are fairly easy to prop. The easiest method is layering by bending a branch down and putting a rock or brick over it to make contact with the soil (wounding the place of contact should speed the process up). Sticking a cutting in a pot of good potting soil and setting it in a semi-shady location should do the trick but the cutting should be on semi-hard growth - never tender shoots.

Rose of Sharon should be on hard wood too and is fairly easy to get to root. It sounds like you may be taking your cuttings too early in the season.

Would I be able to get a cutting from Rose of Sharon at this time of year? I have been successful with the brick method. But once I cut off the rooted branch, it died. I have given up. I guess I'll just try harder. THANKS, Anne

I think this time of year would be good for taking cuttings of Rose of Sharon (althea) and hydrangea. I took several cuttings of a double pink althea at our last house. I think I had about 18 cuttings and all took. I may have lost a couple when I finally put them in the ground the next year at our new house. At the same time I took rose cuttings and brugmansias and put them in the same pot and they are all growing together today.

Don't ever give up on propagating. Try it again and again until you get good at it. I think my mistakes when I began was keeping the soil too wet and using garden soil instead of a good potting soil or other potting medium. Learn from your mistakes. There are lots of good books on the subject. Ken Druse has an excellent book if you want to pay a pretty penny.

If I take my cuttings now & root them, is there anyway I could put these in the ground by winter. I'm talking about November basically. It usually isn't too cold here yet. The ones I have rooted & am getting ready to pot, would you wait till late fall to plant these too? I appreciate all advice.

As far as Althea, Rose of sharon - I get hundreds of seedlings that come up around my momma plant - or you can gather the dried seed pods soon and plant them. They grow really fast and you should have a plant blooming size in a couple of years. Of course cuttings would speed this up a bit.

I would probably put them in a cool garage for winter or a cold frame. I kept mine in a basement for the first winter. Put half indoors and half outdoors for an experiment.

Azalea, I agree on seedlings from althea being so plentiful (weedy if you ask me) that it doesn't make sense to take cuttings but the double one has had very few seedlings. I think I've seen 3 to 6 over the past 3 years so cuttings are the only way to speed the process up on this one. I'm not even sure what the seedlings are going to look like because they have not bloomed and are still quite small due to our serious droughts over the last 3 years.

I can see it now, an article on "50 kinds of styrofoam to use in a bubbler" If you try the plates, let me know how it works.

I know to cut rootings from some plants, it should be in fall, and then rooted and put back out in spring. Course I'm in Texas, so longer summers and not as much winter. But I know Brugs and things are cut back in fall, and the cuttings rooted.

I asked about the hydrangeas,
they said if you do the putting the branch on the ground, you aren't supposed to "cut it loose" till the next spring. Course this was some opinions, so I guess it might just depend on where you live.

Maybe just wait until the last possible minute, then bring the rooting inside?

I know that with honeysuckle and others that will root when on the ground - you just don't cut from mother plant until you have good roots on the branch

Good to know. It's hard to leave them there when they look so healthy.!!! I've got some rooted hyd. and can't hardly stand it I want to take them up so bad.

Where's Dave? He's been doing too much, we're gonna have to fuss at him!!!

Depending on your weather conditions, if they get enough water, I find that they will root in just a couple of months - then I pot them up til better established. I'm impatient too and often carefully dig them up to check on the roots.
My DH loves to tell how when we had our first veggie garden, I would dig up the little corn I planted to check on the roots!

Can't tell you how many times I've done the same thing.!!! Just can't believe something I planted is actually getting roots! lol

I think these banana trees are trying to root to china - I' scared they're gonna push my other plants out - dig out a pup - 2 wks there's another one - last one I dug and dug - it broke off about a foot down - 2 wks later - another one AWKT

I've got some Elephant ears that are driving me nuts. They've gotten so big they are hanging all the way over the walkway, can't keep them staked cause they are so heavy. Moved them last year, bulb was 2 ft. wide, cut it in half. The 2 pieces grow twice as big as the one. Gotta get it moved, but will have to wait till it dies down and then get a bulldozer I guess.!!

You guys are just bragging. Everything grows big in Texas??? LOL

Jeanette

It does - really - why you think we all came here!!! haha

Well, even at that, you can have it.

Jeanette

Greetings:
Sorry for the silence. I had to go to OKC to take care of some business this last weekend. Rental property need I say any more? I just play forman and let my relatives do the work.
Ok question on stress of the cuttings. The most stress would probably be from the aeroponics because the plantlett has to get used to working for its moisture. You can stress any cutting by not keeping it moist. Its a fine line when you are coming out of the water or prop tray. because you need to make the plants work for their water to grow more roots but you also need to make sure the cell does not dry out and put the cutting into stress.
An old question from way up the thread. I remembered it when I was traveling this weekend. Thuja - arborvitae... Smi hard wood cuttins under mist or thats what the book says. I have never tried to root them. You may want to try several different ways. Use one of the leaf plateletts also a tip cutting just play with it. I would use as strong a rooting hormone as you can get. If possable try the bent stem and brick method at the base of the tree. I am not sure if that is possable because of the stout branches. please let us know how it works for you.
Lorraine: I love the inventaveness and adventure you seem to have. You mak need to stack some of the thinner styrofoam together to get it strong enough to float. You have a great idea in breaking them off and just carefully removing the SF from around the plant.
Lulabelle: Timing just has to do with the type of cutting you take the plants mode its in and how soon cold weather will be on you. I try to count back 6 to 8 weeks because I have an enclosed greenhouse that gives me a longer growing season. you will want to have you cuttings shaded from the heat of the sun but in high light areas. I use a shading material that gives me about 25% shade and it works well for me. I would not let anything keep you from trying cuttings
hcmcdole your point about keep going and try everything is great. We each have a specail mico climate which we work in. no 2 areas are ever alike. if the cutting fails to root try another one. I would not try to root directly in the soil you had a failure in except if you have something you know is easy and are willing to risk the loss. I have some mints and some other things that root like there is no tomorrow. I use it on them, I realize this goes against everything the books and teachers will tell you. My wife is an accountant and she watches every penny. so I have to stretch as much as I can. i have been know to bag it all up and use it on transplants that I am willing to risk.
Why do I say risk? All soils have diseases in them just waiting for optimum conditions to take hold. a good fungicide drench will help keep them in check on the older soil. Also the soils may need to be refertilized if they have been watered for a long time. Water leaches out the nutrients in the soils. I like Osmocote and Nutricote. Nutricote is a small greyish pelitized fertilizer sold as dynamite at home depot. They both work well for most conditions. The southern states that stay hot longer and don't get too cold will use the slow release faster than the northern states. so the 4 month's osmocote will not last the whole 4 month's. watch your plants they will let you know when its time.
Davis: Scraping the cutting is to provide a larger surface for poots to form. I usually do it at the node when I am removing the leaves and little leaves trying to form branches. As far as cheapest rooting system I would have to say soil based propagation wins hands down. You can reuse the pots from the annuals you buy in the spring to pretty up the flower beds. your only expenses are soil, rooting hormone, water and time. You don't have to have an elaborate mist system just a water breaker to break up the water to a mine spray and a garden hose. I prefer a wand with a breaker attached. Mine was 6 bucks (I think) from home depot. I am going to discuss the cost of the aeroponics sytem as well as soil based propagation.
Tomorrow I will be doing the picture soil based propagation as well as some pics of my own green house.
I hope this helped. If I missed any questions please ask again and I will try to answer them.

You are right about Osmocote Dave My fuchsias have been in it just about 3 1/2 months and all of a sudden one of them quit producing buds. Just stopped. I've never seen that happen because normally I use triple 20 (Peters) with it and I didn't this year, thinking the Osmocote would work.

In our area I couldn't find the Dynamite at HD. I used it last year and had some left over, but after I got home I was told that Fred Meyer carries it out here on the West coast. They are 80 miles from me. I don't get down there often. Also, HD quit carrying Superthrive. The small hydroponic stores carry it and it runs cheaper in a couple but not all.

Jeanette

Dave:

I always hear that "roots formed in water are not as strong as roots formed in soil". I have been successful with both methods though...What is your take on this? Truth, or old wives tales?

Thanks,
Roberta

Roberta, you asked my question. I've heard that too, and have been confused!

I find that "water roots" tend to break off more easily.

I prefer a planting medium over water hands down. I have yet to get the aeroponics to work for me but I also have not tried it in warm conditions. So I am going to try to set mine up with a bunch of different plants both hardwood and softwood cuttings. I am shure It will work this time as it was a bit cool and a lower light area. I believe the failure was due to conditions and errors on my part, but hey thats how we learn. I would rather have some issues than everything work and Not know what I did to make it work, if that makes sense. I got all the pics croped and labeled I hope to have it all ready to post either later tonight or tomorrow. sorry for the delay.
Dave

Dave, Thanks for posting this thread, I have been entranced by all the posts for the past 1/2 hour or so. Can you please tell me if i can root chocolate vines ( akebia quinata)with the aeroponic system, also I would be interested in rooting mandevilla and pandorea vines. Any infor you could offer would be greatly appreciated. Thanks so much, Ibartoo

Ibartoo:
I would try everything. I do know mandevilla can be done. and I am not sure on the chocolate vine. It sound interesting though. I am sure it can be done the question is at what success rate. The listing in DG has it listed as a brick air layer method. You might try a small pot of soil next to the plant and pin down a runner in the pot. I would do all the methods. Aeroponics, growing media propagation and brick air layer method. Some one called the brick metod earlier in this thread and I thought its a fitting mental image. I love it.

Lorraine you may want to increase the depth of your water and the number of air stones you are using. I found out that the air attaches to the chemicals in the water and the more bubbles the better the atachment and rooting success.

Can't remember Dave, did you suggest to Lorraine to use a shot of Peroxide in the water? Guess I'm just a firm believer in it.

Jeanette

I may have missed the answer to these questions already, but can you use a weak miracle grow solution to root in, and what type of rooting hormone do you use? I have never used anything more than willow water and rootone. Also, would an aquarium heater work well as a heat source? I believe my heat mat has died a slow death over this summer. Thanks for your help. Ibartoo

jnette: Yes I did recomend the shot of peroxide in the water. I think its 3 teaspoons to a half gallon of water.
I bartoo: I would use the aquariun heater to keep the water warm. I would make the fertilizer water very weak as too much can burn the little new roots. Schultz makes a "starter plus root stimulator" that looks to be a good application for any propagation method. I use Dip-n-grow, its a liquid. If your willow water is working for you I would stick with it. no sesnse reinventing the wheel. There are a lot of ways to propagate you just have to find the one that works best for you.
Dave

Hi: Any one that would like the whole how to as a word document please dmail me with your email address and I will get it out to you. I am hopeing this will be fast and easy to post. It might be a bit tough to follow as parts of the thread. The thread won't let me just cut and past the entire thing. :^(
Please ask any questions on anythig that seems unclear, or you need more detail.
Dave.

01/24/2010 - I am still wrking on it somehow I seem to be haveing a difficult time finding the time to "just do It" as I am trying to cut out the un-needed weather and my health issues and stuff along those lines that don't pertain to propagation. Dave

This message was edited Jan 24, 2010 6:17 PM

Empty 40 cell tray

40 cell tray with growing media. Lightly sift the soil into the tray. Do not pack the soil in the cells.