Groundwork for the store

New thread for the groundrules.

"For Gardeners, by Gardeners" means just that, so lets get everyone's input for the store. Everyone gets a voice and a vote, then the rules will be put into place, and must be followed in order to sell- sounds fair? Good :)

First order of business is the number of items you will be purchasing: ie- how many seeds per packet, how many cuttings in an order, how many seedlings?

Post replies below.

Trish

ps- anything that needs to be brought to my attention can go straight to my email, if you wish: trish@davesgarden.com- feel free to bring anything up.

As a "general rule" in trading certain things are considered, such as: the size of seeds, the viability of a particular cultivar, the # of seeds produced from the parent plant, the rarity of the plant etc...
Should these factors still be considered in the #? Or are you looking for one set #? If one set # then I guess the other factors could be considered in the instead of amount?
Am I making any sense?
Jody

Darn....
Really need that edit feature, LOL.
Suppose to say other factors could be considered in the cost instead of amount.

So, you think it should depend upon the plant, then each seller would decide how many seeds would go in each packet? If we did this instead of making a mandatory number, the seller would then list in the description of the item how many seeds would come in each packet.

Might this be the better way to go?

Need to hear from all potential sellers here...

Trish

Trish, I'm a long way from being a seller, but I do think sellers will need to be able to establish their own price and packet size, although you can certainly set suggested guidelines to help them. Probably your toughest job will be to decide whether to allow sellers to compete on the same varieties within the storefront. There's pros and cons to head-on competition vs. exclusive arrangements.....

I believe the "market" (meaning competition from commercial mail-order sources) will keep the prices and offering sizes competitive. But rarity will also play a factor. I do agree with someone's suggestion that there needs to be a minimum amount of material to sell....maybe some of the more experienced gardeners can help you figure out what's reasonable to expect someone to produce from a serious hobby garden (I think that's an oxymoron but you know what I mean.)

And there will also need to be consideration given to propagating patented plants, especially many named rose varieties. Not to be a wet blanket, but I think the responsibility for determining what is legal to sell will rest with you as the consignment operators...I could very easily be wrong, and maybe we have a gardener out there with more legal knowledge than I (meaning ANY knowledge at all....if a little knowledge is dangerous, I'm totally harmless.....) who can guide you on that subject.

Have you thought about an auction instead of an actual store to sell stuff? I think that might work just as well ... if not better. Members could auction off their crafts and plants rather than try to create a set price. The more rare and unusual the plant - the more people would bid on it.

It would be fun for both the bidders and the sellers. Just a thought anyway

I like the bit about the auction. I actually think it would be nice to have both.

I have a concern. What about liability? I hate to even bring it up, but I know that there is always a possibility that someone can be sued from something they sold. At the farmers and crafters market I am with the 'market' provides the insurance under an umbrella. The fee for the spaces help cover that cost. Now we need to figure out liability issues here and how to deal with them. Some of the merchants for this store will already have insurance if they are in business already. Others will not because they are just selling thier seeds and plants just as if they were trading them. We need to keep in mind the variety of product that extend beyond what we actually trade on this forum. Also, even if every person had their own insurance, it would not guarantee against DG and/or Dave & Trish being sued as well. Yucky subject I know, but neccessary to consider. It would be well worth looking into the possibility of overall group insurance. At the very least it should be checked on.

I also think that pictures DO need to be posted of the items. The world wide net is very large, so if you have something like say seeds that you do not have a plant to take the picture of (after all noone needs to see a picture of the seed itself) then a link to a nice picture somewhere can be substituted. It would break copyright laws to paste someone else's picture without thier permission, however it would not break any laws or be unethical to provide a link to the picture and would actually draw traffic to thier site as well. I bet we can all give some good ideas on sites with great photos of the plants we grow &/or trade. I personally hate when I am wanting to buy something and have no idea what it looks like. It deters me from buying it and if there is no pics of anything then I tend to leave the site quickly.

There should be standards on amounts of seeds and plants per sale. I would like to suggest an appointed committee that oversees setting this. We can nominate and appoint the committee members and they can take suggestions from everyone and come up with the standards. Obviously there will be several catagories. Daisy seeds will be totally different than say something rare that is pricier. There can be a running spreadsheet/journal/whatever the format on the seeds. We can all add to the list and the committee can copy them to the catagory that they need to be in. When something new comes to play then it can be determined by the committe and placed appropriately. Again, the committe can take direction from the DG members. We can even have a forum especially for this raising issues and have a weekly where issues are collected and discussed all week and a decision made on a specified day on a regualr basis (does not have to be weekly, just regular.)

Gee, I think I will stop for now. If I think of anything else then I will repost, but these are just a few of my concerns and suggestions.

Thanks for hanging in there if you have :>) !!

Angel

Trish, I think that it should be mandatory to state amount of seeds. On small seed like poppies maybe by the weight or an estimate. Then the sellers could state price also. That way there is no mistake about what is being bought. Also, I think that viability should be checked before selling. Items that are questionable about coming true from should be addressed also. Some people may want them even though they don't come true from seed. However, others don't. So the people selling should sell what ONLY they know well. When selling plants there should be some guidelines about shipping. I have received plants in the mail that never made the trip. I had no clue before I started mailing though and it was hard to get clear answers. It is a very simple process that just takes some extra care. Maybe there could be a little section with shipping rules that everybody selling would read and sign off on before they could sell. I hope this is making sense, I have been running around at work all morning like a chicken without its head. :)

There should also be satisfaction guidelines. This will help to streamline the quality of products being sent out. It doesn't cost much to insure a package, so packages of anything that the seller does not want to cover the charge on themselves to replace in case of damage (or being dead) should be insured. There is rarely a non-satisfied customer in situations like this just mearly because of the product if the seller has high standard (which we want for the storefront anyway) so having everyone sign a satification guarantee clause should not be a problem. It will still be to the sellers discretion to not sell to anyone who abuses this and any abusers should be reported to Dave and Trish anyway and made known to other sellers (but not public.) I don't think their would be much of a problem anyway.

Angel

Trish: I need to throw in my 2 cents. How about if it is small fine seed, like poppy, then have the seller measure out like 1/8 teaspoon of seed per package. For the larger seeds that are easier to handle then they can count out 25 or 30 per pack or whatever the number. For larger seeds, like castor bean, hyacinth bean vine seeds, something like 12 or 18 seeds. The larger seeds weigh more and are bulkier. Debby

How about a picture index with latin and common names that a potential customer could click on and the picture would come up to show what is offered? The seller could choose the closest photo from the available list and note any changes in a written description of the plant or seeds being offered. I think Debby's measuring suggestion is good, after all who can count seeds that are smaller than this dot.

I think Debby has a good idea.Tiny seeds can be measured instead of counted.

Things like tomatoes should be standardized.Maybe 25-30 seeds per pack. Each grower should agree to the guidelines set,and everyone pack with the agreed upon number.

Big seeds should classed by what family they are from.12 Castor Bean seeds are enough for anyone,but 12 Lima Bean seeds won't make much of a showing once they are harvested.
Small numbers of seeds like beans are common among traders,as we are used to growing out the first year for supply ,and the second for harvest.But if we are selling to folks who just want a tasty meal,we need to be sure there is enough of our product to supply their needs

Pictures would be a wonderful way to show each product and ones taken by the grower or crafter are obviously the best choice if they are clear and useable.Whatever it is, we need to make sure everything is presented in a professional and orderly way.

I'm like some of the others when homemade edibles are being sold.I,myself have several little gems that I would like to offer.The only thing is I don't want to break any government rules by selling such,but the world needs my Grandma Hall's Green Tomato Ketchup.....ask Brook!

I agree with the posting that points out this website is something that Dave and Trish do for us, without any financial remuneration. So while I appreciate being asked for my opinion, ultimately it's up to Dave and Trish to make the final decisions on how the storefront and auction work, assuming they decide to go forward with them.

So before we completely smother their idea with our concerns of liability, guarantees, and trading seeds to discover they're being sold, can we take a step back and ask ourselves a few questions?

1. How does eBay get around the liability of "illegal" plants crossing state lines?
The last time I checked their plants and seeds for sale, I didn't see nary a warning that people in California (or other states with strict rules) couldn't bid on a particular item. And as big as they are, they would surely attract the attention of the government if eBay was considered responsible for the items traded. So there appears to be some protection for Dave and Trish with the auction set-up.

As for a storefront, unless Dave and Trish are planning to "brand" the seed and plants for sale, this strikes me as a virtual "farmer's market" or "consignment store" (or "bake sale" as someone described it), where Dave and Trish are taking a cut (and an extremely reasonable cut, at that - most consignment stores take 30% - 50%) of the sales generated.

Are there liability issues with a farmer's market? Most of them are of the physical variety - someone trips and falls on the premises. Since this is virtual, is there any other liability? Hopefully we can find ways to assume that liability ourselves, and minimize Dave and Trish's exposure.

2. Satisfaction issues?
In the spirit of a farmer's market, these should be up to the seller and buyer to work out. Dave and Trish shouldn't be expected to offer a blanket "satisfaction guarantee" on this stuff - they're not WalMart or Nordstroms. They will, I'm sure, monitor any disputes, and if a seller has repeated problems with his/her product, they can ask the seller to not participate further.

3. Traded seeds up for sale?
I could be wrong, but as long as the price and quantity are posted I see no problem. I wouldn't pay a couple bucks for a packet of seeds that contains a tenth of the full packet from Parks, Burpees, whoever. IMHO, those who would try to pull something like that aren't going to putz around with selling the traded seeds for what they're really worth - just a few pennies; they're looking to make their money and "get the h--- outta Dodge" before people figure out what they're doing.

So here's my plea - can we agree to try to keep this as simple as possible, and keep Dave and Trish as free from liability as possible? Yeah, their reputation is at stake. And for that reason, I'm sure they'll carefully screen the sellers. But ultimately, it's a privilege for us to have the free use of this site, and if we keep that in mind, I'm sure our requests and suggestions will be made in the right spirit....

And I'm done rambling because my coffee cup is empty!!
Terry (Go Vols)

Yes, this is Dave and Trish's project and keeping it simple sounds like a wonderful idea and closing our eyes to the above mentioned ideas sound like an easy way to go, however they are very important.

Dave and Trish WILL be somewhat liable. This is not up to us. This issue would fall into place if there was a problem and someone posed a lawsuit for some reason. This is a business. Businesses need insurance and most certainly MUST follow rules and regs or face fines, penalties and whatever.

Yes farmer's markets are liable as well. I am on a farmer's market committee and learned a lot about liability issues from the farmers directly as well as the Dept of Ag and the other business people and committee members. That is when I found out that in general the insurance is covered my the market itself. That is part of the fee that the sellers pay for their space.

As for satisfaction, that is a total reputation thing. That of course is up to Dave and Trish. Also never was it said that They should be responsible. I stated that they should have the selelrs be responsible but that it should be done. If they choose not to do that then that's totally up to them. Like I said... it is a reputation thing.

The issue about the seeds being sase'd and then sold, I personally don't think it will be too much of an issue for the reasons stated in other posting. There just is not enough supply and Trish I believe has already stated also that the process of determining sellers will be selective.

Anyway, it would be wonderful if we could keep this simple. The problem is it is a legitimate business they are starting and open to the world. That in itself removes the simplicity from the entire project.

Angel