Ohio and Iowa are only two states apart!
NUTRITION 101 Q&A
oh yer i forgot LOL
Lemme guess -Josh doesn't even know half his neighbors around here does he?
And some of us are right next door!
Is it OK to feed chickens pieces of asparagus? I have some asparagus in my fridge that is a little wrinkly - it is not moldy or slimy or anything. Just got a bit dried out. Can I cut it up in bits and feed it to them or is asparagus bad for them?
Claire
i know my neighbours i just have to become a citizen so i can vote LOL
I think asparagus is fine if they will eat it--no avocado, no chocolate, no salty things, no sugary things, and no potato peels--especially if they are raw/green. Not sure how important the last one is--most birds are okay with solanceous berries--but everyone says so--so no:0)
I wonder why no avocado?
I don't know exactly why--it may cause cardiac problems in birds. Here is a site that discusses the reasons for some food concerns with birds:
http://www.oldworldaviaries.com/text/miscellaneous/toxicoses.html
well, no worries, here I DO NOT SHARE MY CHOCOLATE!
Chocolate is a highly palatable food. Some of us know that all too well. Unfortunately, many birds seem to love chocolate almost as much as people. Chocolate is not bad for birds just because it is high in calories and fat though, it contains a compound called theobromine. Theobromine is toxic to dogs and cats as well, but birds, again due to their smaller size and more rapid metabolism, may be even more susceptible to its toxic effects.
Generally, the sweeter the chocolate (more sugar), the less theobromine present (milk chocolate contains about 1-2 mg of theobromine per gram, dark unsweetened chocolate may contain as much as 15-16 mg per gram). Despite this, no chocolate should be given to birds. Signs of chocolate toxicity include: hyperactivity, vomiting, diarrhea, heart arrhythmias, seizures, dark colored droppings and death.
we try not to eat salty foods:
A deficiency of sodium can cause polyuria (excessive fluid excretion), weight loss, fatigue, and slow growth. Many otherwise healthy foods that people routinely eat are high in salt. Further, many crackers, snack items, chips, fast foods, and canned vegetables (unrinsed) if eaten in sufficient quantities may actually be toxic to birds.
Signs of a mild salt toxicity (5-10 times requirement) will result in polydipsia, or increased water consumption and subsequent polyuria, or increased fluid (urine) in the droppings. Because excess salt is excreted via the kidneys, a bird with mild to moderate kidney dysfunction may consume toxic doses of salt readily. Deprivation of water alone may lead to salt toxicity because the kidneys are not proficiently perfused or bathed by fluids to remove the sodium and chloride.
Even birds with good kidney function may develop signs of a toxicity if salt is consumed in large quantities. Besides polydipsia and polyuria, a toxic insult of salt may lead to kidney failure (with no urine produced), a subsequent build-up of body fluids (ascites), neurological signs2 and heart failure leading to death. Poor growth and feathering is seen in babies fed too much salt, such as provided by hand feeding diets with high sodium peanut butter.
no avocados in this house!
In both clinical experiments and numerous anecdotal reports, avocado ingestion caused irritation and excessive preening. Other reports have included a cessation of eating, rapid short breaths and death.
wow realy
Claire so you won't be milking those Nubians then? Too bad. I understand they have great milk.
I finally separated the twins off my doe. Her bag got real hard the first night so we had to milk her to get it down to a soft feel. Hasn't happened again thank goodness but I'll tell you milking a doe that isn't a dairy goat is a one tough job! Paul held her and I did the milking. I managed to save 1 pint for the freezer but the rest ended up all over me and the ground!! My hands smelled like honey for a whole day ^_^. Wasn't what I expected to smell.
MollyD
Well Molly, we might breed them and milk them but I have a few concerns. First, I'm not sure what we would do with the kids. I don't like to contribute to the "pet overpopulation" problem, so I would have to feel sure I could find homes for them that were appropriate. We don't seem to have a lot of goats here in Iowa at the shelters, although other areas seem to have loads of them in shelters. That makes me feel bad to produce any new ones because it means (indirectly) that maybe one in a shelter will not get a home because I produce a new one. That might sound strange to some people, I guess, but having volunteered in shelters, I really feel that breeding animals must be done very carefully so as not to contribute to the problem.
Secondly, right now, I work full time and I am in school part time. My BF works full time also and is driving all over the state every day, plus parts of Nebraska. Having someone available to milk them twice a day will sometimes be a very difficult proposition. Because of the price of gas, etc, BF is considering looking for different work. He doesn't get reimbursed for mileage (although it is a tax deduction). So, we shall see. I want to ensure that we have proper time to dedicate to milking them and using the milk if we decide to breed.
Of course, the other option is keeping the kids, but I don't want to be overrun with goats. The ones we are getting are 2 wethers and 4 does. That is enough to be going on with, I think. I have read that Nubians are great milkers and that their milk is high in butterfat. That means it would make great cheese, ice cream, etc. I would love to try doing some of those things, but I know I don't have time right now. I don't want to make myself more stressed out by having responsibilities I can't keep up with...
Claire
good thinking there Claire. With that bunch you will be getting you wont have to worry about breeding them. You would have to get a buck. And just a question, dont they need to kid to be able to be milked?
Yes, they do have to kid to be milked. The current owners know another goat farm where they took the does to be bred in order to milk them, so we have the contact info in case we want to do so. Apparently before they have also taken the kids. That might be another option for me to consider, if I visit that farm and feel like the kids would be well cared for and happy.
Ok what am I doing wrong. My birds attack me when I go out there. They think I am food or going to give them food. They are free range, and they get their crumble every morning. They do not have it constantly, until just today. I was hoping to wait until they were in the new coop and day yard until I put the auto feeder out. But dang I cant walk thru 300 birds waiting on me to drop something. Am I feeding to much or not enough, they see me and think, yes maam food.
you are their mama, they WANT FOOD!
pick up some greens at the grocery store, and keep your toes covered... change your shoes maybe LOL. its nearly a full moon, there should be plenty of bugs out there...
yes I did change my shoes and that does seem to be a little better. I was using my plastic crogs????? they have holes in the top, good for muddy areas and I guess the birds think there should be food in them holes. Oh gosh hun I have 10 acres there are plenty of bugs everywhere. they are venturing out. I got them to go into the veggie garden today but wouldn't stay.
yep mine love those holey shoes!
they just WANT YOU to feed them. maybe dig some holes to get them started?
OH yea ment to tell ya this, we dug a trench all around the hen house on the new coop and all the birds were down there while we were trying to put up the metal in thaem trenches just a scarfing down. I will do that down by the coop so they will get more familiar with that area and be easy to move them this weekend.
Uh Claire you've got a big problem. You are thinking of the goats as pets. They're food. Just like a cow or a sheep is. Any we don't keep or sell to individuals will go to the meat market for slaughter. There is no way to place every single kid born in a pet situation. I suspect you'll find that the people with the buck at stud handle them this way. Maybe you are better off never breeding them cause you will be very unhappy if someone says they'll be pets and ends up eating them.
MollyD
Not all goats are meat, they can be for pets.
Yes Tia but there is a limit as to how many pets you can hope to place!
MollyD
WOW, I thought you were taking the nubians to process the milk for cheese and such.. didn't I understand thats what your husband wanted to do?
Molly... did you have Momma on a milking stand? DH just built me one.. I can't believe how easy the directions were.. and he did such a nice job.. He used "used" materials.. that just makes him crazy... lol.. but it looks great.. I don't want to paint it.. but he says its ugly so I will paint it and put some no skid on it, then I'll take a photo.. I am currently using it for stella to brush her and look at her feeties.. and just touch her all over.. I wash her "udder" area.. just to get her use to me being in control..
My kids LOVE goats milk.. say it taste like melted ice cream. I personally have never tasted it.. can you believe it.. I can't wait..
Stella finally esaped her pen last night for the first time... right into the dog pen.. I found her curled up asleep with the 2 papilions.. lol
Something you could do is check with you local high schools and get in with the ag department so the kids could have a wether to show. also check out the fairs.
I would eat goat and chickens but that is me, that may not be the case for everyone and I do not make an issue of it.
frans530 no milking stand here since mine aren't dairy goats. Normally I wouldn't be milking her. I do touch their bags so that if the need arises they don't fight me too much plus I read somewhere that first time moms are sometimes afraid to let their babies nurse so if you touch their bags they get use to being touched in that area and have fewer nursing problems.
We do have to build a stand for working on their hooves though.
L2G our HS's don't have ag departments here. 4H club is the closest thing and the wether thing would only help with the male babies but not the doelings.
MollyD
Yes Fran, you're absolutely right. We did want to be making cheese and such. That is why I am interested in milking them, but I have problems in considering the fate of the kids. It's a dilemma!
These goats I am getting have been this family's pets for several years and they are quite attached to them. That is why they were looking for a home that would be a "pet" home for them. I am happy to be that home. Maybe if I had the does bred and then never saw the kids it would be OK. I just don't think I could see a cute baby goat that I allowed to come into the world and then know it was going to be eaten...
I'm a bit of a softie that way. :-(
LOL Claire how do you figure you'd have the does bred and never see the kids? There isn't a maternity hospital for goats out there!! You're it! That is the hard part but as they get older it does get easier to consider selling them. Right now my boys are beginning to look and act like bucks, less like kids.
MollyD
Claire i know what ya mean. They are so cute when they are new babies. But so is that new calf that will grow up to be my steaks on my BBQ. You do have a dilemma ahead of you and I am sure you will be ok with what you decide to do. You are the one that has to make that choice and I am sure you will be backed up here with what choice you make.
First you are saving them from just being slaughtered in the 1st place.
I thought maybe the farm where the bucks are that took care of my friend's goats when his family went on vacation, and also where he bred them, might be convinced to take the does for the birth part.
And what if I couldn't sell them? And then I might have to give them away for free, and they could go into an abuse situation or something....oh it makes my head hurt to think of it!
You do have some choices to make there hun. With what you are saying I wouldnt breed them. But you want the milk.
Calm down, Claire! If you have to give them away, you can make sure about who you give them to. Also, you can't second-guess anyone else's karma - not even a goat's! But for now, just exercise birth control for them and worry about the other things later. You're doing the right thing.
Somehow I think the Chicken Fairy and the Goat Fairy may be related.
I guess they both work for the farmyard fairies guild. Same with the duck fairy, turkey fairy, pig fairy, donkey fairy, etc. I think their collective bargaining agreement specifies that they can't all visit the same household at the same time.
Claire it's always possible they might be willing but rather unlikely since you can't say well she's due tomorrow so I'll run her right over there. More likely you'd have to take her over at least a month before she was due. Then they would have to be responsible for shots for her before she kidded, doing tons of hard work with her if there are any problems. I know that many goats have no problem kidding but there are many exceptions to that. I sure wouldn't want that responsibility for someone else's doe! You can always ask them of course. Worse that can happen is they say sorry no.
Whether you give or sell an animal there is never any way to be 100% sure of what it will encounter in it's new home (this applies to any animal) or even if they will keep it and not pass it on. That's why I say that you should just avoid the whole thing cause the guilt will bother you a lot. You're just not going to get any guarantees about what happens to any animal that passes out of your hands. Keep them as pets and both you and they will be happy.
MollyD
The other option might be if one of the farms in my neighborhood would be interested in them. That way I know where they went and what the people are like and whether they will be more like a pet or a meat animal. One of the goats is very elderly (doe). I might consider breeding one of the others after she dies (which seems fairly inevitable). Then I would just be replacing one.
Claire how old are your does? Forgot to say you might consider placing the wethers since they are not necessary in this situation. Wethers make excellent pets though like any other goat should not be kept alone without another goat for company.
MollyD
This message was edited Aug 14, 2008 3:24 PM
The does are different ages. Here is what their "mom" said about them in her email to me. I don't think I could place the wethers because the whole reason they are giving them to us (free) is because we are providing a pet home for them. Clearly one of the does is the daughter of one of the other does. Other than that, though, I really don't know about their ages except they are all adults.
"Thank you so much for offering our feathered and furred friends a good home! It really puts my mind at ease. When you're getting to know the goats, I can help with their names. Here is a rough guide: Biggest wether, brown, is Xander. Multi-colored wether is Zack. Skinny cinnamon doe with very little white is Savannah. She's one of the two original does I purchased from very good, well known stock. Next largest doe is Suzannah (aka Suzie-Q). She is Savannah's first daughter. Xander's sister is Yolanda, and she's the only stand-offish one of the bunch, and she has wavy cinnamon hair on her back. She's a decent milker, though. Abigail is very sweet and has the largest white patches on her sides and soft, straight guard hairs. Laura is the buff-colored doe who's both the youngest and the smallest. She has great spirit and like the others, loves attention."
Okay so there really isn't much there to get a grasp on their ages but what makes you think one of the does is 'elderly' ? Goats begin having babies around a year old so having a daughter that is an adult doesn't indicate advanced age by itself. I noticed she said first daughter so what did they do with her subsequent kids? Maybe she could tell you how she handled that part of it?
MollyD
Oh, the elderly one had a sister who died in the last couple of months. She has some trouble walking and has some kind of lumps on her back. I forget what they are called. Not cancer or anything. Some kind of cyst or something. Anyway, apparently she is very slow all the time and kind of "tired" like her sister was. Jim told me she might last a couple more months in his expectations, and I had nothing else to go on but what he said!
The subsequent kids they gave to the farm with the bucks that they bred to. I do know that part (except for the ones that they decided to keep).
They are also giving us the cream separator, milk pasteurizer, cheese press and portable electric fencing. I am very appreciative to them and want to do the best I can for their goats. :-)