wow, so dh who is very allergic to poisen ivy might benefit by drinking goats milk "tainted" with poisen ivy?
New Goat Owner 101 Questions
How would you go about keeping your goats in poison ivy? I keep myself in poison ivy all too well, but I'm not a goat. I wonder....
Hi grownut--around here (well in Berkeley anyway) people lease out their goats to clear the hills of poison oak. I bet there are a lot of people everywhere who would like a little less poison ivy/oak. You could advertise!
My husband installed hay mangers on the walls of the barn to keep the hay clean, they are picky eaters and won't eat just any hay, we buy 150 or more bales when we find the type they like, we have about 24 nannies now ( pygmies) , we started with one lonely goat that someone gave us about 10 years ago, we sell the babies and change males every year.
we use the pellets for worming, and they are a healthy bunch, feed them grain every day
and all the kitchen scraps, they love bread, and all the scratch they can get from the geese, that is funny watching the geese trying to pull t hem away by the ear or wherever they can get a hold of.
enjoy your baby, ours have brought a lots a warm feelings in Marion, Illinois.
bogotanita I'm curious as to why you change males yearly?
MollyD
And I guess I didn't realize my goat would eat my scratch.. lol, can't wait to see U & ME with that one... they already met Lovie and are not impressed with her yappy mouth.. U had just taken a gallon of water in and had yet to let it go.. and jumped up at Lovie.. I love the way chickens can spout like a water fixture when they are full of water.. they look just like a fountian.. took Lovie back a few steps.. she hasn'r been near those big birds all day..
Cats -I'd heard of people using goats to clear Kudzu, particularly in the SE where it has taken over so much. Never thought of running a Kelly Goat Service. Hmmm.
People make a tidy income doing it, grownut. There is a woman in Sacramento who rents her goats to clear overgrown city lots. All you need it some way to contain them to the area you want cleared--in Berkeley they put up temporary fencing (I think electrified) and they run what look to me like fiber goats--not Boers. But in Sacramento I think they just put up a wire around the lot. Then you need a way to get them to the site. The woman has a small panel truck and a dog.
It sounds like a perfect answer, especially if you are close to the areas needing clearing. Even if the pay only covered the fuel--you would have free browse.
I'd be a little worried here about predation, but it does sound like a cool business. I'd have to take care of my reputation, being a Kelly myself. :-)
Oh my, I would become a goat shepherd.. I could not leave my goats in a strange place in a makeshift fence.. even on a temp basis. I would have to stay with them 24/7.. I see an rv in my future. lol
This is just a general site on municipal weed clearing--but at the bottom it talks about using goats:
http://www.techtransfer.berkeley.edu/newsletter/02-2/weeds.php
I think the interesting thing that I have learned about goat foraging.. is they don't just eat a clear path through the woods. They are very choosey. I have only had my girl a week and was really surprised at what she will not eat.
So after reading the link, Cat... how do they contain the goats on the roadside.
Very true frans530 ! They pick and choose what they will eat and when. One day multiflora roses may be the rage and a few days later they'll turn their noses up at it. I've noticed that mine will eat a few leaves here and there. Rarely will they eat the whole plant bare in one spot. Takes many visits over a couple of weeks for them to trim things down a lot.
MollyD
Cat, the reason I mentioned the chickens and goats with the coccidiosis was because I had an incident with one of my goats. My LaMancha had gotten in the area with the chickens and shortly thereafter she got diarrhea. I brought her feces to our local goat vet and she tested pos. He said she contracted it from the chickens and since she was the only one that came down with it, I always figured he was correct. I always figure better safe than sorry! :)
Molly, I know what you mean about pick and choose. I had one buckling that would only eat along the fence which I thought was great!
Sue ☺
LOL one of mine will only browse while I'm standing there. If I stay she'll happily munch all day. The minute I walk away she starts to bawl. Just like a big baby!
MollyD
Too funny! My Sandy was the same way; she prefered my company to the other goats! she would just stand in the pasture and stare at the house; the second you came out she would start blatting!! She had found a way over the fence and would walk down the top of the stone wall into the backyard just so she could be with us! Thankfully she only did it three or four times before we figured out how she was doing it. None of the other goats followed her which was a good thing because I doubt they would have walked down the wall to see us!
Sue
I had one that would bawl at me, her name was floppy. She was forever getting into some kind of trouble. She wanted where ever I was. Billy knew how to open the gate to get into my yard. His fav snacks were all my shrubs and rose bushes. And my Silk Tree.
I'm still scratching my head about the coccidiosis thing...Our goats and chickens (and calf) all share the same large pasture and we've never had a problem. Our vet also told us coccidiosis was species specific. Can we get a ruling on this? There's got to be some info on Google somewhere.
Our chickens frequently hitch rides on top of the goats, or choose them as a resting spot. The goats don't seem to mind either, and walk very slowly when they have a chicken on their back (so as not to disturb the chicken). It's always a gas when you walk outside and see a goat lounging in the shade with a chicken on its head.
Also, when they get with the calf they seem to enjoy "chicken bowling". They wait until the chickens all get in a cluster and then go tearing through the group making them scatter.
I think the goats think of the calf and the chickens and the guineas as their "herd", and have even broken up fights between the roos, or when some the hens start pecking at another one. They all have separate housing, but they spend all day together in the pasture...maybe that is why we haven't had a problem with the cocci.
I'd say you should DEFINITELY put up a manger if you don't already have one. It saves SO much waste. Our chickens like to hang out under the manger so they can clean up any scraps the calf and the goats drop, so we don't have a huge waste problem.
Well, coccidiosis is caused by a number of different organisms (just like human diseases such as the common cold can be caused by different viruses). The vast majority of coccidiosis causing organisms ARE species specific. Some are not. A notable exception is Toxoplasma gondii, which causes toxoplasmosis.
However, all references I can find seem to indicate that goat/chicken transmission of coccidiosis does not happen. I am not a vet, but I am a trained molecular biologist, but the items I've read so far make sense in terms of their science.
See for example, this link, Question #1 on the sheet.
www.sweetlix.com/user_files/File/articles/Goat_005.pdf
Also see this quote from the following "Goat Connection"' website page linked here:
http://goatconnection.com/articles/publish/article_115.shtml
It states:
Coccidiosis is species-specific. This means that one species of animal cannot infect another species. Old-time goat ranchers incorrectly believe that chickens can give coccidiosis to goats.
I think it is definitely species specific--the sites I listed above discuss it--but they aren't authoratative. It does seem to be more of an association with both gosts and chickens getting it at the same time--but if you have the right conditions that would hold true for all cocci species. I am sort of suprised that someone's vet told them that they could share it--every vet I've talked to definitely says no, although there can be some cross contamination between sheep and goats. I'll see if I can find a vet site on it.
Okay here's a vet: http://www.goatworld.com/articles/coccidiosis/goatcoccidia.shtml
Site referencing species specificity: http://parasitology.informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de/login/n/h/2114.html
Makes sense to me! Besides...I don't know what my goats would do if I had to separate them from the chickens...I don't know what the chickens would do either for that matter...for starters they'd have to WALK on the GROUND no less!
It may be that they can cross if one has a sufficiently suppressed immune system. I think each species supposedly has a correct body temperature that's conducive to only certain parasites. The old catching a cold myth - Cold doesn't make you sick it just makes it really easy for the germs that do to proliferate.
Sue today was an interesting day. I had both the does tied in an area to browse. At one point I looked up and saw a goat where I knew there shouldn't be one. Went to look and Milly had somehow opened her collar (the kind you press in from both sides to open). So I got her back into it and on her rope and went on with my work. I'm building a lean to shed for the kids and the new buckling to share. At one point I looked around and the does were eating peacefully (they could see me) and the kids in the other pasture were browsing. All 3 were together and looked like miniature herd! LOL They were so cute the way they were moving as a group instead of the helter skelter way they've always done.
MollyD
big congrats on that Molly!
i would agree, not possible for different speices to share parasites. otherwise, integrated pest management, grazing rotations, etc would NOT work in parasite control...
tf
No healthy creature should be able to catch another creature's crud. (say 5x fast)
They say AIDS crossed to humans from monkeys. That's the only example I've ever heard that's not entirely anecdotal.(aka viral research gurus found...) So I figure the guy had to be really REALLY sick.
(Sorry, guys, I can be H*LL when I illustrate a point)
Guess I'll have to have a talk w/ the vet and straighten him out!! I've always been so cautious since he told me that to keep my poultry away from everyone else in the barnyard! grrr! She was normally a very healthy goat so I'd have to say she picked it up somewhere else. She was too mean to be sick most of the time!lol!
Molly, it's funny how they can figure out how to open latches! Hopefully Milly did it on a fluke! I loved how the kids used to dance all over their mothers while they were lying down chewing their cud!
Here's a pic of the LaMancha, I've been talking about. She was the most ill-tempered doe I've ever had but boy was she a good mom-twins every time and excellent milk production.
She looks like she's everything you've claimed for her:-0 Pretty Doe.
Thanks! She was 12 weeks old when we got her and her horns were pretty well started so we let them grow. She knew how to use them! I always said she's got the devil's eyes!!lol!
Nana used to look at us like that when she knew we were trying to put one over on her. And we knew we had failed!!
I can't get over "no ears" how odd looking.. I bet they can hear you though... stella ignores me.. then looks at me like.. oh, I didn't hear you... right!
OK. New goat question:
Forage-ing...
mulberry tree saplings?
apple tree sucker/sapplings?
both of these are VERY troublesome to me... and stella loves them... I say.. EAT them!!
I can't find anything that says stay away... but.. advice??
What about apples... she tried so hard yesterday to pick up a fallen apple.. just couldn't do it.. but was distracted by some other shiney object so I didn't push it.. are apples good, should I cut up?? peel?? lol
Apples are definitely okay--I've never hear anything bad about Mulberry. I'd probably cut up the apple so they don't get stuck in her mouth or throat--it's happened to me:0) Anyone else?
One of my does loves apples and no I don't cut them for her. She bites off what she wants to chew at one time. Animals are smarter than people about this sort of thing ^_^
99% of the time frans530 you'll find that Stella won't try to eat things that are bad for her. She'll sniff at them and that seems to trigger a genetic memory that says edible vs not edible.
Sue your doe had a beautiful face! With those 'no ears' she looks like her hair is pulled back in a pony tail!
MollyD
Thanks Molly! The second I saw her with those elfin ears I had to buy her!
I usually cut up apples for goats and even the pigs. A friend of mine lost one of her does from having swallowed something that got stuck in her throat. She tried to get it out but couldn't. I would cut up an apple and smear peanutbutter on the pieces.
Sue :)
bumping this up...
frans, do you have another goat thread? i was llooking for where you posted a link to the goat dairy library, that is where i found the 800 number for FARAD. i found the libary site, but no idea which page the phone number was on...
thx
tf
It has been awhile since we talked goats..
I spent the day playing and learning how to test a fecal sample and looked for assorted worms. Only problem is I came up with something that doesn't look like anything on the worm page: http://fiascofarm.com/goats/fecals.htm
What I found looks more like a thick rubber washer. There were a lot of them. I could reconize differnt pieces of digested hay & grains.. and other little things.. but these ??washers?? well I can't figure them out at all. Other than them I could fine no other sign of worms. There were none of the other pictures in the samples, I ran two from two different samples.
Should I worm her anyway?? Most farmers I have been speaking to are worming for fall in the near future.
I would worm her for the eggs/worms that you have found. We always wormed before breeding which will be very soon(getting cold!).
Sounds like perhaps she has been browsing on items other than grass and brush!! It's amazing what they try out. I'm not an expert on id'ing worms so anyone else?
grass, brush that includes, appletree leaves, mulberry leaves, hay, red raspberry bush.. and a bit of dried grass.. and thats about it.. there is nothing else for her to get into.. well maybe a touch of corn but not more than a spoonful at a time.
hmmm...do you have any vets that will run a fecal for you? And another thought, perhaps you could check her fecal matter over the next few days and see if it continues to appear.
Sorry just reread your post where you stated you found no eggs or parasites. Personnally I wouldn't worm if she's clean but please do as you feel is correct. I know alot of people who don't run the fecal tests and just worm on a regular basis.
frans530 we lost the one goat vet we found (she had shoulder surgery and signed up with a small animal practice that won't let her do any outside work) so we are on our own for now.
The 'washers' you found sound like they might be eggs to me. I would have the vet run a fecal scan and at least it will confirm what you think you've found. I hate worming just because. I am convinced that the resistance to wormers that many experience is because of over using the stuff. At no time will your goat ever be totally worm free. Look at her inner eye lid. Is it pink? That's a good sign. Check her gums too. They should be pink as well. Is her hair looking healthy? That's a good sign. The picture you posted on this thread shows a healthy looking goat to me.
Just my two cents worth.
MollyD