Beer Fertilizer - revisited

Keaau, HI(Zone 11)

I have been mixing and matching that beerfertilizer with my Epis and some hoyas and I am looking for some results which I haven't seen yet...not in the way I am expecting it to work. The only person who raved about it extensively is no longer on the forum...and it was hard to tell what his plants really looked like as he never said how long he had been using it and his photos were blurry at best. Is anyone else getting the kinds of results he claimed to get? What do the roots of the plants look like? Have you had blooms on the plants where you used the beer fertilizer?

Yes...those flowers are not hoya...but i thought they were pretty. And, no, didn't use ANY fertilizer on them!!!

Carol

Thumbnail by AlohaHoya
Shepherdstown, WV

Carol-
I started using the beer fertilizer since I ran out of Eleanor's, but it's only been for about 2 months maybe. Trying to think who's put on peduncles since I started using it....anulata, bella, davidcummingii, but is it too soon to credit the fertilizer with the buds? I'll keep you posted!
Kelly

Saint Petersburg, FL(Zone 9b)

Carol,
I used it....did not like it!!!! I think it was harmful to my plants.

Lubbock, TX

Is this the one about the beer, epsom salts and ammonia? I have heard Epi's getting it. Does the beer have to be flat?
Will it make your house smell like a brewery?

Keaau, HI(Zone 11)

Don't think so, Hayu....but I am still on the same bus with Ric...but always wondering. I still really like the MSU fert.

Shepherdstown, WV

Ric, do you use any fertilizer or plant food?

Carol, what is the MSU fertilizer?

I really like Eleanor's and saw some great results with it but shipping tends to be high.

Morrison, IL

I have been using beer fertilizer for almost a year. I have many new peduncles this spring and none of the hoya's are in a gh. I got the recipe from the former member here and also some very healthy cuttings. I do not know the former member and only d-mailed him a couple times concerning securing some cuttings. I do recall him starting the April blooms and making other postings but don't recall that his pictures were "blurry." Not all of us have expensive cameras or maybe are not so skillful at taking pictures. Do we still need to take cheap shots at him? He did much damage but he is GONE! I believe that kind of remark is an elitist remark and the kind of remark that discourages new comers. I have read often where newbies have been lurking and are shy about jumping in for fear if being "judged." Please, lets us be careful about such remarks.

This message was edited May 2, 2008 2:38 PM

SW, WI(Zone 4b)

I've never used this fertilizer, (I was afraid to, to be honest...kind of relates to Doug's posts about using the new soil he'd read about) but I have many plants with new peduncles this year, too.

Didn't appeal to me at all - the thought of sugar-based food (beer, molasses) in plants made me feel that it would cause the plants to attract bugs. And I hate bugs. I also had a vague and probably groundless suspicion that it was a hoax. And that doesn't mean I'm pointing fingers at anyone, because I have no idea who introduced the idea.

Christine

Morrison, IL

We all need to remember what I always say, and this is ---- what works for one may not work for another. We all live in different climates, different zones, different house/gh conditions with different planting mediums, different pots etc. So no matter what others do/use remember to do what works for you. Listen to your gut. If your gut is telling you not to do it then DON'T.
I will try and not hurt myself when I jump off my soapbox! LOL

Saint Petersburg, FL(Zone 9b)

Kelly,
I use MSU, and like Carol........its the only fertilizer I fell works the best for hoyas. My orchids love it as well. Like Mel, I ordered a case of Eleaner's. a few years ago. I still use it once in a while but I never noticed a change.

San Francisco, CA

I agree David (or Ann or Sara?) , we all should all remember that experiences can be subjective!

Morrison, IL

Mark, if you are referring to me, my name is Dee. I have NOTHING to do with, David, Sara or Ann. I only knew what I read on this forum. If I had been "involved" with them I think I would have been booted off here. Can we not have our own opinion without being guilty of something? I thought this had all been put behind us by now.

Dee

San Francisco, CA

Oh brother- you guys are about as slick as sandpaper.

Morrison, IL

Believe what you will, Mark. I choose not to hijack this HOYA forum.

So back to the hoya's, please.

Dee

San Francisco, CA

We never left the topic of hoyas, except when you three got up to your hijinks. I hope everyone takes note of this new fake username, though, which materialized right around the time DM was on the warpath about the beer fertilizer (as a zealous convert), and showed back up just in time to post a lot of pictures of David's plants in a thread were he had just had some been removed and admonished for it. Particularly appalling, if you ask me.
And Ann, if you don't want to be recognized you shouldn't throw the word "elitist" around so freely.
Why don't you three give it up? You will never be able to post here without being recognized, unless you actually behave yourselves, and if you were capable of that you wouldn't have gotten booted in the first place.

Lubbock, TX

To bring this back to fertilizer. Does the beer need to be flat? What is MSU and Eleanors?

Hayu, MSU is a fertilizer that was developed by some people at Michigan State University and is amazing. I believe it was originally developed for use on orchids, and that there's different formulas depending on what kind of water you have. That's all I really know about it. I use it on faith, and my hoyas are doing stupendously. Maybe someone else will come along and have more info.

Christine

Shepherdstown, WV

That I'm aware of the beer doesn't have to be flat. I've only made one batch so far and still have over half of it left.

Here's the website for Eleanor's http://www.vf-11plantfood.com/.

Where do you get the MSU fertilizer?

Kelly

San Francisco, CA

Kelly, you can get the MSU fertilizer at First Rays, a site that sells orchid supplies:

http://www.firstrays.com/

Also check out the semi-hydroponics section. I put a batch of hoyas into that set-up. The results aren't in yet, but it seems interesting

Lubbock, TX

I am guessing Michigan State University's Horticultural or Ag schools since they developed it. Someone else might know for sure.

Keaau, HI(Zone 11)

You are right hayu....it was developed to use in artificial medium which is what most of us use to make our planting stuff.... I ran out at one time and used DynaGro....and when i resumed using it and repotted, I noticed new fat healthy white roots happening, usually above the other roots. Ray (of the site to buy the stuff) can put a 5lb. tub in a flat rate mailing box...and the shipping is less than 9$. He is a great guy and is adamant about not gouging you on the shipping costs. I like him a lot!!! SOOOOOO honest and up front.

I am using the beer stuff on some pots of vegies....and the epis....and will probably quit on the the test patch of hoyas since it is doing NOTHING/NADA/ZIP.

Lubbock, TX

I don't understand artificial medium is that like soilless medium? A man in C&S said it has no dirt(soil). So I'm really confused. I thought all potting mixes had some sand in them for drainage. He said potting mixes were not considered soil.
Maybe this needs to be a new(old) topic. I only drink one beer a year but I have to buy a six pack so I am stuck with 5. This is why I am interested in the great beer debate.

Knoxville, TN

Hayu, there are plenty of older threads on the beer fertilizer, which should give you all the info you need. You also might want to go to the library and check out a book on basic houseplant care and read about the different media that goes into a soil less mix. Most books have pictures and those should clear up your questions.

Mel

Lubbock, TX

I have a tape of a lecture in which the lecturer says that soil less is a misnomer, I have also read this. I am asking these questions to get a new perspective. In which I hope to form a better over all conclusion. This is why I am asking these questions.

Now then I do read potting soil sacks so that I can get the least amount of peat. I don't like alot of peat in the soil mix I use for my cactus. Now my mother who is a Hoya addict is buying Hoyas that you can't get in your normal nursery. When things go wrong (apply Murphy's Laws here.) she turns to me. I am trying to gather as much information as I can to slow Murphy down.

Oh the Library is 5 miles away, the nearest bus stop is 1.5 miles away and I have been on crutches for a year and it looks like I will be on them this year too. Since I can't drive due to a seizure disorder you can see why going to the library would be rather difficult. That is why I have joined this site.

Keaau, HI(Zone 11)

SOILLESS means that there is NO dirt from your (or anyone else's) garden mixed in with it. Sand is NOT soil, peat is not soil, perlite is not soil....even compost isn't soil One lecturer's opinion a truth does not make!!! Yes, artificial medium is like soilless medium....

There are a couple of links on line that will give you how hoyas grow, how their roots grow etc. - and I am sure that if you Google something like Tropical Houseplants it will give you some good information, too. Eh, Mel?

Happy Growing, Carol

Lubbock, TX

LOL..I love this... When my soils teacher and the horticultural students got to arguing I learned more. The Horticultural students were required to take soils from an Ag professor. Lets just say the discussions were sometimes heated. This topic was especially heated. This is why horticulture was on the first floor and agriculture was on the second. The best copying machine was in the horticultural office. I went down there to run things off.

While I was down there I would question the horticultural professors about what was discussed up stairs. That's where a horticultural professor introduced me to a book- Crockett's Indoor Garden. I have a first addition. I have read through it and looked for things so much the cover is coming off.

The arguing always seemed to end with the professor saying "Because I say so thats why!" Listen I am new to this forum and have found it very difficult to find things out. I often Google or Ask Jeeves to find the links on DGs. And I read from other sites as well to see the discussion from every perspective.




Shepherdstown, WV

Although I haven't been using the beer fertilizer long enough to form an opinion, I will tell you one con....If I mix some of it in with a gallon of water and don't use the whole gallon the same day a mold line will form at the edge of the mixture. This worries me a little - should one be pouring mold onto one's plants? Seriously - what's your opinion? I've just been mixing up new batches as needed.

Kelly

Morrison, IL

Yes Kelly, a mold does form. I too have had this problem and usually just skim off the mold. I do use the fertilizer on all my cacti and succulants but still have some left over because I don't have that many plants. During the winter when I backed off the fertilizer it really got moldy. I just threw it out and started over. So far (almost a year) no damage from mold. Only my opinion!

Dee

(Zone 1)

I bought all the ingredients for the beer fertilizer (except the beer) a couple of months ago and still haven't mixed a batch up yet. Don't know if I will ever get around to it. I too have wondered about the sugar content in that mix. I don't want anything attracting bugs! It doesn't take much to attract bugs here in Florida!

I have been using Eleanor's VF-11 for 1 1/2 years now and have seen a difference in my plants ... but that's because I was really bad about fertilizing before. I really like the VF-11 and I use it on everything, house plants as well as garden plants. The only thing I dislike is that I have to order it. I do not order direct from Eleanor's ... instead I have my local Ace Hardware store order it ... shipping is about $10 - $11 less than what Eleanor's charges! I'm assuming because Ace has a distribution center in California and the fertilizer is included in whatever else they are shipping from the warehouse?


Carol: That is a Beautiful Amaryllis!

Long Beach, CA

I have used the beer fertilizer for several years now with very good results. I get lots of blooms from the ones that are old enough to bloom. Had blooms all winter on my davidcummingiana and pusilla. My plants are all growing nicely this spring so I think it works well. I spray Eleanor's on things occasionally, but not all the time. Don't really know if it helps or not, but I am sure they love the moisture treatment at any rate. Ha.
I used the MSU also for awhile but did not see the growth that I did with the beer fertilizer so I went back to the beer. I do not find mold in mine, but I just shake it up before each use, so I may be missing it, but nothing ever seems to be harmed from it. I also use it on the epis and they are ALL in bloom now with lots of blooms on all of them. Here is one called Mr. P
Marcy

Thumbnail by Mairzee_dotes
San Francisco, CA

I did some research on the Beer Formula a couple of years ago, when it started becoming popular. I found a lot of contrary opinions about it in the horticultural world, but when I started finding more science based analyses of this formula, they all said basically the same thing.
The best explanation of the science I found was from the book "The Truth About Garden Remedies", by Jeff Gillman, Timber Press, 2006. Mr. Gillman has a doctorate in plant sciences and is a professor at the University of Minnesota. I highly recommend this book- it makes great reading for those who have ever wondered about some of the more bizarre horticultural practices and their origins.
Dr. Gillman also writes clearly and doesn't use unnecessarily big words, a skill many people who achieve doctorates never master!
I'm going to post several excerpts from his section on "Fertilizers and Soil Amendments" here, as they relate to elements of the beer fertilizer, the formula for which was posted on this forum some time ago as follows:


12 oz-- beer
1/2 C-- ammonia--non lemon
1C--epsom salts
2C--water
1/2 C--molasses
4 TBS--bloom booster fertilizer--store bought
250-500 mg--vitamin B-12--I use 500mg

Mix ingredients well and apply at the rate of 1TBS per G of water every 2 weeks.

(Zone 1)

Marcy: That is one Beautiful Epi. I have a few small ones that I received in trades a little over a year ago, no names and they have never bloomed for me. I know I need to feed them. Would it hurt to use an orchid bloom booster type fertilizer? I also wonder if they might need more sun. I have them all in my screened pool enclosure and they get filtered sun for the better part of the day. They seem to be growing well but have not bloomed. I don't know a lot about Epi's, maybe they need to get a little older before they will bloom.


Apologies if I should have posted this question somewhere other than the Hoya forum.

San Francisco, CA

(((reprinted from The Truth About Garden Remedies- credited above)))

Beer as a fertilizer- "Beer is usually recommended for the lawn, but it is also recommended for the vegetable or flower garden. Recommendations are usually for about a tablespoon of beer added to every gallon of water, but they can include concentrations of up to a full can of beer, undiluted, for a small yard area.
...Beer contains water, carbon dioxide, ethanol (the alcohol that inebriates us), a wide variety of carbohydrates (sugars) that make the beer taste good, a small quantity of protein (which contains nitrogen), and a few other things, such as trace elements, in very small quantities.
...Carbon dioxide is unlikely to have an effect on the plant, as there is substantial carbon dioxide in the air. Ethanol is not helpful to plant growth; in fact, ethanol can be quite detrimental, causing plant burn and even death. That leaves us with carbohydrates and protein. Various carbohydrates, also known as sugars, have been shown to be taken up by the roots of plants (Begna et al. 2002; Saftner and Wyse 1984). Carbohydrates are the building blocks of plants, so these additional carbohydrates could help, but protein is more likely the answer as to why beer might increase plant growth and health. Beer contains about 6 grams of protein in every liter (about 1/4 gallon), which, while not a huge amount, could certainly be helpful if no other source of nitrogen is available. Besides the protein, other nutrients your plants need are present in beer, such as iron, copper and zinc (Wyrzykowska et al. 2001), but the concentration of these are probably two low to help plant growth much unless they are completely absent in the soil. So beer does contain some nutrients that could help plant growth, but it also contains ethanol, which should inhibit plant growth."

San Francisco, CA

((reprinted from "The Truth About Garden Remedies" credited above)))

Beer as a fertilizer, continued:

"...Fortunately your intrepid narrator has tested a variety of beer on the growth of a garden favorite, the Butterfly Bush. These tests were conducted in a hydroponic conditions to avoid the influence of other factors in the soil. The beers that were tested included a light beer (Michelob Light), a stout (Guinness), and an alcohol-free beer (Sharps). Beer was added to the water in hydroponic tubs, along with a low concentration of liquid fertilizer (similar to what would be found in a good, unfertilized, garden soil). Six plants were grown with each type of beer at a concentration of either 6 ounces or 12 ounces in a 5-1/2 gallon tub. We also ran a control (a hydroponic set up with the fertilizer but without the beer) and an alcohol test (we added to the fertilizer as much ethanol as is found in 12 ounces of Michelob Light). Over time, notes were taken on the growth of plants.
The reults of this experiment were clear cut: alcohol is bad for plant growth, beer with alcohol is bad for plant growth, and beer without alcohol is bad for plant growth, although smaller amounts of the alcohol-free beer didn't do any major harm. In short, the best plants were those that didn't have anything besides a small amount of fertilizer added."

(Zone 1)

Great info there Mark! Thank you so much for reprinting it here! I have decided against using the beer formula.

San Francisco, CA

((reprinted from "The Truth About Garden Remedies" credited above)))

Beer as a fertilizer, continued:

"Beer is better consumer than applied to your garden. Although many reasons were given above as to why beer might be beneficial to plant growth, the fact remains that in our experiment it was, in fact, harmful.
Adding small quantities of beer to a garden probably wouldn't be as detrimental to plants as our experiment concluded, but why risk it?... If you care enough about your garden to have read this section, then you probably care enough to fertilize and water properly. If you fertilize and water properly, there is no reason to believe that beer will provide any additional benefits besides allowing you to appear avant-garde."

San Francisco, CA

That was just the info from the section on beer. I'll reprint excerpts from the passages on Ammonia and Epsom salts in a bit. They aren't any more encouraging.
This book really is great- there are also sections on home concoctions for pesticides and herbicides.

(Zone 1)

I've already googled for the book and am going to purchase it!

Shepherdstown, WV

Mark,
I had to laugh while reading the excerpts because it reminded me that I did ask my neighbor who does landscaping now that he's "retired" about using beer on the lawn and he thought that was compete waste of even bad beer! I had completely forgotten about that conversation! He just about choked (on his beer of course)!
Looks like I'll either be getting MSU or ordering more Eleanors!
Thanks for posting that!
Kelly

Post a Reply to this Thread

Please or sign up to post.
BACK TO TOP