hi guys,
i was hoping that some of you might recognize this plant from the foliage only, no blooms yet. it is growing at my great grandmothers old place that has been abandoned for over 20 years, so it must not need much attention. i kinda reminds me a bit of amaryllis leaves since they are kinda wide and strapy, but the color is very light green. i am planning on digging them and putting them in my garden and would love to know what they are so i can plan where to put them. thanks
tracie
Please Help with Heirloom Bulb ID!
durn thing wouldnt let me send a photo with the first post. here is a pic
another pic
Crinum
ok, that makes sense. i have really wanted some of them! do you have any advice for me on what conditions they like, etc?
tracie
Full sun or shade, the blooms last longer in the shade. huge bulbs - dont hurt the bulb and dig them up deep - really deep. They dont like to be dry dry and can take very moist with no issues. They are very carefree and make good sized clumps over time.
are they are very tall bloom? when to the normally bloom?
tracie
Only one species I know of likes constant shade or quite a lot of shade--Crinum moorei--and that's not it; I grow it.
For all the others full sun produces more blooms--and yours looks to be a hybrid--so definitely more sun, more better. They also are heavy feeders and perform best in the richest soil you can give them. They survive quite well in poor soil, just don't live up to their full potential, you might say. Some of the species (stress species, not hybrids) do like it dryer in the winter. And there are a lot of smaller, very desirable Crinums; they are not all huge and hard to manage. In fact, I like them much better--I've "downsized" all mine and the only "monster sized" I have kept is 'White Queen' (for the look of the blooms) and 'Peach Blow' because it keeps its foliage up very high and other things can be planted nearby underneath. Some other very desirable, under-utilized smaller Crinums include C moorei, C oliganthum, C venosum, C hildebrandtii, and C lugardiae. I grow all of these--plus a few more--these are just the least fussy.
=)
thank you so much for the info! i wish i knew which variety this one is. i guess i will just have to wait and see. thanks again,
tracie
Its probably one of the C bulbispermum hybrids--which is what about 99% of the heirloom Crinums in US are. It will take some form of this--perhaps darker flowers, more or less striations on back of petals, more or less "striping" inside, perhaps white in color--any combination is possible with these hybrids.
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/showimage/150803/
that looks nice to me. do they bloom only once, like amaryllis or do you get rebloom? i read that moving them in the spring can cause them to not bloom this year. also, that they may not bloom for another year or two after that. have you had any experinces like that after moving some?
tracie
Once a year - and when I move one they will not bloom for me the next bloom season.
They are stunning and well worth the effort.
i really have no choice but to move them since they are not in my garden, yet! lol it is a shame about the loss of bloom though. :( i really wanted to see them this year. (stamps foot in fit of childish rage)! oh well, will have something else to look forward to for next year. thanks again,
tracie
They will be worth it - move them and cross your fingers every blue moon one I move will go ahead and put on a show for me.
Moving usually means no bloom first year--but not necessarily--mine get moved, dug, potted, unpotted, etc. quite a bit. I've dug and moved Crinums in Feb before, stuck them in the ground, and had them bloom in May of the same year. Below link pictures is the exact bulb I am talking about--but the bulb on that one is larger than a baseball. This is one of the one's that's a big hybrid (this bulb shown in these pic's to be exact--only have 2 of these left--and this one pictured is one of them) and its on its way out here as soon as a good home is found for it (sort of like puppies). Too many better varieties and too little room. Definitely doesn't apply to 2nd year blooms. Blooming mostly depends on how rich the soil is (or if a species, more exacting requirements), location, they number of times we get a heavy rain, and size of bulb. Large bulbs are usually going to bloom--and this one repeat bloomed 3 times last summer. But we had a lot of rain last summer--not true this year so far down here.
Crinums are like rain lilies--influenced by and dependent on heavy rainfalls at just the right time. And they know the difference between real rain and the sprinkler. They are like rain lilies that way (Zephyranthes and Habranthus species); which are 2 of the species (among some others) I consider my specialty. I'm into the smaller bulbs that are garden worthy and suitable for the deep south.
close up:
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/showimage/152899/
and "monster plant":
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/showimage/153473/
Hope this helps.
I have a couple of them, but don't know what variety. Both mine are a pale pink, but they do bloom more than once a year for me. I want one of the white fingey looking one, know by my grandmother as a "swamp lily". One of my neighbors has a HUGE one that is maroon and white. She said it's a Milk and Wine, but I don't know if that's the official name or just common name.
milk and wine is a common name for lots of hybrids
I have several crinums too. Some I just dug from my grandmother's house around Easter. They were planted in 1923 and haven't been touched in over 25 years. I can't remember what the blooms look like, but i'm so excited to have them! Can't wait for them to bloom.
Mitch did you order either of the crinums from BT?
I have three different Crinums here... all of them vintage, all given to me.
A favorite was a 62 yo lady whose Daddy had grown it when she was small. He called it 'milk n wine'. It's not but I may never know which one it is. I moved these last spring and in less than a month, they bloomed! You may get to see a few blooms this year.
I've not seen any reblooms on the crinums tho... anyone?
I have a lot that rebloom
Most of the old heirloom hybrids are some form of C bulbispermum x Crinum scabrum and run the spectrum from really nice to so-so. A lot of them sacrifice repeat blooms for copious seed production and offsetting--that's why they are so widespread and commonly found. Then the hybrids mix with the hybrids and makes them a total mess to ID. You just have to enjoy them (which is easy to do) and give up on the ID. Its usually easy to see what some of the parentage is by the characteristics it displays--but ID requires dna (costly) and really doesn't make it any more valuable. The named varieties all have known parentage--but few of them are actually heirloom, unless the cross was made naturally in the past.
Crinum seeds can float which means in the earliest of days in the USA--they floated down rivers and streams establishing colonies. They were originally brought from Africa by slaves or from the Caribbean (also probably by slaves). Which is why most of the heirlooms are some form of these species native to Africa. There are some species native to Australia and Mexico--but they are pretty different looking and probably weren't involved in USA mix.
editted to add: you also have a healthy dose of Crinum americanum to add to the muddled ID mess:
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/1172/
This message was edited Apr 24, 2008 9:29 PM
I did not order any of the BTones... I had ovr 20 at one time here that I saved from this building site and that one all over the place in Ellis and Dallas county. Tried to move some to OK big error in the ground but inpots they look great an so far so good!
Ah yes, a dose of Crinum americanum ~ LOL
Would it help to deadhead the seeds for a rebloom?
definitely pod! if any of them are bad offsetters, dig them this fall and replant about a foot deep (or more if they are larger than baseballs) this helps on the offsetters but not with 'Ellen B' or 'JC Harvey'--lol--otherwise crinums don't have to be buried deeply. I have 'White Queen' and 'Peach Blow' and they are very shallow, but they are seeders not offsetters. Usually the older hybrids are one or the other, sort of.
Someone told me those were Peruvian daffodils and in that I think they were wrong. These crinums are some of those LARGER ones. Not sure I even want to dig 'em.
I appreciate your knowledge... and believe I will follow your advice.
Quoting:
LOLYou just have to enjoy them (which is easy to do) and give up on the ID.
thanks for the great input guys. i went out and dug them yesterday. dug out from the clump and took them all in a clump, dirt and all. made a mess in the back of my Envoy! lol anyway, i watered the clump and put it in the shade. cant plant them until Sunday.
tracie
Send us a picture of the flower once you get blooms. With that foliage, it is either a Crinum lily or a Hymenocallis - spider lily or spider bulb. I took the tubers from one of my landscape jobs and was sure it was a crinum but the mother plants finally bloomed so I was able to identify it. I had a whole left from my plant sale today at Tx A&M. Are you here in College Station?
'Ellen' is notorious for offsetting; I would plant that one deep. I do have personal experience with that one--although I have now found it a good home elsewhere.
I just don't have room for it with all the other stuff I want to grow. The offsetter's tend to require a bit more work than I like to give a crinum--but that's just me.
=)
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/showimage/153473/
I mean digging it up to remove offsets--rapid offsetting decreases blooms on crinums.
It will spread and cover a large area by offsetting--but it will do so at the expense of blooms.
My company's specialization is small bulbs, so I just don't personally care for that kind of work. I know last summer I dug 78 large (larger than baseballs, 18" deep) crinums in the middle of the summer out of really rich, good earth and it was not something I would want to repeat on a yearly basis--I can just imagine if the soil had not been that good.
I'm only one, 5'5", 125 lb woman--it was grueling in my opinion. But it sure did help put my girl in the dorm at college. ;)
Debbie
i went to texas a&m, not really a "girl" anymore, though!lol i live in East TExas, Lufkin, to be exact. thanks for the info. i emailed a lady that is well known in Texas for her Criniums and she thinks it is one. gave me some advice on moving it, of course, i had already dug it up before i got her email. i pretty much did what she advised anyway.
tracie
would that be Marcelle Sheppard? My brother lives next door to her--she's a long time family friend and really a sweet lady. About the only 3 large hybrids I have left for my personnal enjoyment are from her seeds.
=)
that would be her. i found her by goggling criniums and texas. she was very kind to respond to my email so quickly. she has some amazing plants! and the prices are equally amazing on some of them! i had no idea they could be so expensive.
tracie
Most of her's are primo hybrids--not your normal stuff. Most of her collection is actually species not hybrids--that's why I specialize in the small ones.
Cocoa ~ I have EB also but crappy soil. In this soil, I haven't run into that problem. If fact EB has spread far less than the white Crinums for me. Yet it still blooms with regularity.
The man I got both types from had them mixed together in a bed and it was amazing to see how full of bulbs it was and how deep they had grown.
pod--Crinum americanum speads by underground rhizomes to fill wet areas, doesn't offset like regular crinums--that one is native to US. I still grow that one next to my LA Iris because its fabulous for hybridizing. And much easier to dig and control, I might add--lol
Quoting:
How long did this endeavor take? I would have had to wait for cooler days myself!
last summer I dug 78 large (larger than baseballs, 18" deep) crinums in the middle of the summer
good one pod--let's just say I took lots of ac breaks and drank a lot of those kinds of beverages that take your mind off of what you have to get done and did it in 2 days--lol
I did it in July because I sold off that entire lot of that particular hybrid to a well known commercial grower/seller in Texas for two reasons:
#1 I'm getting out of the large bulbs and specializing in the small bulbs because its a better market niche for me to work alone--my bulb company and my consulting work are how I earn my living
#2 Money to send Robin to college at UT Austin--they needed the bulbs to sell this spring because they are the kind of company that pre-sells bulbs in the fall for spring delivery
I figured that but that was a tough one... did your DD assist?
surely you jest--I imagine she was out getting another tatt, or piercing ;)
Actually she's much smaller than me--only 5'2" and a good wind will blow her over--if anything heavy needs to be done we are kinda like mutt and jeff out there. She was a doll though when the entire back 80' fence fell down (one of those suburban wooden privacy fences) last Feb in a bad rainstorm. She drove down in the middle of the night, scooped up her boyfriend from somewhere, and we three managed to upright the fence sections and brace them up with 2 x 4's in the driving 40F rain and the dark. Another experience I don't care to repeat--lol
My pride n' joy--that can barely reach the stool they had her posing on in the high school grad pic
