Why aren't my pink daffs pink

Those are still pretty, Hart :-)

Interesting observations.

Interesting comments about the Indiana soil. I always thought the Midwest had some of the richest, most fertile soil in the world. Don't know about the iron content issue and its part in this - maybe it's something else that's affecting the color. There's another Virginian on the Oakes site complaining about the washed-out peach on her pink daylily "Strawberry Fields Forever" in her review. Mine was washed out as well. Maybe the B&B people have a special soil composition. Oh well, there are so many other beautiful flowers that seem to do just fine in middle America! ^_^

I think if I have to put sunshades on daffodils and feed them all kinds of ingredients to make them somewhat close to pink it isn't worth the trouble! LOL

I'm happy tabasco alerted me to this thread! I'm a big fan of the "pinks"!

KathyAnn, like you, I was looking for that true pink and disappointed for several years. I'm still looking for that perfect pink that will be at home in my bed that is on the blue side of pink, if that makes sense. To my eye there are "blue-pinks" and "yellow-pinks", and I don't want the "yellow-pinks" in that particular garden. I think the missing "blue" pigment in daffs is the problem. So far, I'm still contenting myself with lots of whites among the flowering almond.

However, in my search, I've stumbled upon and fallen in love with the salmon and coral shades. Since I don't really trust pictures, I've been on a mission to pick up every variety I can get my hands on for half price at the end of season sales. Some of my very favorite daffs nowadays are among this group, and while I still don't use them in my pink bed, I really enjoy the colors with Gypsy Queen hyacinths, the peachy foliage of some of the newer heucheras, the pinks of Darwin Hybrid tulips (most are rosy or peachy pink- like the Impression series), and blues and lavenders. Some of my favorites are Decoy, Accent, Pink Charm, Chromacolor, Fragrant Rose (more coral than pink), and some new ones I've got to find my records and identify.

On the soil-climate effect on color, I've been experiencing this. Some of the daffs I had brought from my mothers house to my previous residence in the woods were unrecognizable to me there. I sloughed it off as my bad memory until I moved them to my current, sunny residence, and now am recognizing some of them again! Some I'd known to have a white perianth were soft yellow in the woods, but have returned to white here. I think some of my "pinks" are stronger now too, but the jury is still out on that.

I'll get pics in the next few days, and should probably start a thread called "name that daff". I know what I've got, and basically where I've got 'em, but in the chaos of moving an old garden and adding a bunch of new stuff, alongside being a total "absent minded professor" of the garden, LOL, I've completely lost track of exactly what's where.

Hi, gem-good luck finding that pink daff worthy of your pink garden! I am so inclined to meander on down there and check out your masterpiece in progress!

Pink or yellow, the rain isn't helping my daffodils. Although the lawn is so 'spring green' it really sets off the bulb blooms!

Yes, someone should start a 'name that daff' thread. I'm in the same boat as Gem. I keep buying different bulbs and then they get moved around and mixed up. It might be fun and sharpen our daff ID skills!

This message was edited Apr 11, 2008 9:37 PM

Found a "pink" one today. Having the same issue..it is not really pink
I would say it is more a peach color. Pretty..but not what I expected.
Oh well...the sun is shining today!

The salmon and coral shades are growing on me too LOL

Just recieved the Breck's fall 2008 advance catalog today.
All Kinds of pink!! . A "pink" grape hyacinth ( new?) and numerous daffodils claiming to have "pink"
Pg 9 -Chromacolor daff
Pg 20 Mon cherie & Pink Charm
Pg 21 Replete & Palmares
pg 24 rosy cloud
Think I may order some of these for next season and plant a special section in the yard and see what comes up.
I know my "pinks" this year are not pink..but I do not remember what variety they are. Will need to pull out my old invoices to start
cataloging these things. Memory not what it used to be!!

I really like the coral and salmon daffs with my heucheras and a hardy geranium that has pretty shades of color in the leaves at the same bloom time. The coral and salmon complements some of the shades of color in our brick in the house too.

I looked at the new Grant Mitsch Daff catalog that came yesterday and I was thinking of ordering their seedling mix to see what kinds of interesting pinky blossoms may come from that. My spring daff garden already looks like a 'jumble' with all kinds of narcissi in bloom at once. Not exactly what I had planned but I've got to stop trying to squeeze 'just one more kind of daff' into my landscape!

Like many of you I've been searching for that "true pink" daff for my pink and white garden but I've given up on the idea and stretched the concept of pink to encompass peach and coral in springtime ;-) lol There are many lovely peach colored ones - what I really don't like in my pink garden are the ones at start out yellow and then blush to a peachy color. Yellow just doesn't fit in there. lol Still I haven't gone through the trouble of digging them out ..... yet.

Pink Charm - salmon right from the start, no yellow - I really like that!

This message was edited Apr 13, 2008 6:33 PM

My PINK daffs are doubles and Small...don't remember where I ordered them from, BUT when I dig that info up, I plan to complain. It is more exciting that they are doubles than the bottom one is coral, not pinks like they were both supposed to be...I dont know if the soil here is to blame but all my Lilies and other bulbs are true to their colors. If it were June and 110 degrees I would not be surprised, but it is barely hitting the 80s now, and they are blooming like nothing else but not in the right color :(
darren

fernman23..not pink but very pretty! When you come across what these are called ..let me know and the supplier. They are stunning.

Kathy Ann,

I just got back from the Indiana Daffodil Show and after going around the exhibits and pulling the pinkest of the pink daffodils for a semi-professional photograph (to be posted here later), we decided there really is no pink daffodil if we use a generic sheet of pink copy paper as the "definitive" pink.

It was the only thing I could find that everybody could associate the word pink with, but I wonder if a pink piece of copy paper isn't really running to the color purple on the color wheel, rather than a true light red (which is what pink should be).

Gemini Sage is right - there is no blue ithe genetic makeup of daffodils.

The pinkest daffodil I ever saw grown in the midwest was very pale pink, and appeared white from a distance, and the second pinkest one I ever saw was one called 'Applins', but it isn't common.

Here is a pic of Young Love, the pinkest daffodil picture I could find of commercially available flowers. Most of the pinks we saw today were the color (more or less) of 'Young Love', pasted below from:
http://www.web-ster.com/havensr/mitsch/garden.html . I think it is about $7.00 a bulb.

Suzy

BEautiful picture suzy.

Kathy,

Is 'Young Love' pink? Or is it still too much on the orange side?

Suzy

Looks pink to me and so pretty. well, let's put it this way, it's the closest to pink i've ever seen, i'd be happy with it, but can't afford 7.00 a bulb for it LOL

Results to date: (most of the 'pinks' have bloomed except for the newest ones)

NO yellow at start:
CPk precocious
CPk strawberry rim
CPk rose caprice
PchS pink splendor
SPk rosy cloud (no bloom yet this year - bad last year)

NEW - no bloom yet: planted after the freeze last year, but coming up ;) Hopeful!
CPk chinese coral
CPk pink charm
CPk vie en rose

Start yellowish: Do not like the initial colors
Pch replete
SPk accent
SPk palmeres
SPk pink parasol (new)
SPk pink wonder (new)
SPk chromacolor (new)

There are also a few I have not replaced, but cannot think of many of them. I'd have to see them in a catalog. Good luck. Most are pretty even if they start off yellowish. Carol

i'm envyous carol. all those pretties LOL

I've had a few more pinks open in the last few days, and one is 'Jubilee' that starts out pink. In my last garden they were a deeper coral, but here they're about as pink as I've seen. 'Precocious' just started opening and looks like its going to be a real winner too. I'm also seeing some in a naturalizing mix I got last year that look quite special! They have very doubled cups, some stems carry 2 blooms, and the 2nd day the cup segments turn a lovely salmon pink.

Carolmo--thanks for the very good info on the pink situation with daffs. I will copy and paste for my diary--thanks for posting.

Geesh--other people must have questions about what exactly is the color 'pink'---I looked it up on Wikipedia and here is the article--quite complex for such a simple color (or not)-- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamarisk_%28color%29#Pastel_pink Who knew?!?

Gem--Do you recall where you found your 'naturalizing mix'? Is is all pinks?

So many mentions of pink daffs--now I'm wanting a pink daff garden just to investigate further! But Illoquin, I'm not quite sure I go for 'Young Love' with that weird to me cup--am I too critical? That must be a Mitsch daff from the blue background color so it must be pretty special, I bet, though.

Illoquin--And don't forget to tell us about the Indy Daff show!? Would you consider making a new thread with your Indiana Daff Society photos--and maybe teach us a little bit about showing daffodils?? It would be most interesting (for me anyway!) and I'm sure others would find it so, too. (-:

A few of my not so pink but still pretty daffs--I think they are 'Accents' t.

t, that is a lovely scene! I got Accent from Brent&Becky's last fall, and they look to have a more solid colored cup that is a bit bigger than yours; where did you get yours? Your pic looks a lot like my Fragrant Rose, which just opened a couple of days ago (Accent here has been in bloom for a few weeks and the color of the cups is starting to fade). My naturalizing mix came from VanEngelen, and is mostly yellows. About a dozen of them are pinks, but 8 of those are those special (to me) doubles. Even among the yellows there are some really cool ones; a huge, soft yellow trumpet with an extra long, stove pipe trumpet was really nice, but there was only 1 of those in the mix. Also several large golden yellow with a big, extra ruffly, flared cup have shown up.

'Young Love' is on my "want it really bad" list, LOL. The GM catalog describes it as having a lilac sheen to the cups, which sounds to me would push it really close to true pink!

Here is one of mu Pinkest: Silent Pink.

And here in one they call "red from pink breeding". It is 'Liberation' 2W-R fro Mitsch/Havens

Here is Lavender Lass from Brian Duncan in Northern Ireland. It grows really well here.

This is Lariat from Bill Pannill in Virginia. It didn't make it to the show because of the mitten on the 4:00 petal

Gem--well, I could stand corrected on the 'accent' vs. 'fragrant rose'.

I ordered 'pink charm' and B & B substituted, and of course then I became confused and disorganized, wrong label ready, etc. I like the idea of 'fragrant rose' better than 'accent', anyway. Thanks for pointing this out. (-:

Illoquin, I like that 'Lariat' from Bill Pannill, too. Are you in high season for your daff bloom now?

I just received the online catalog from Oakwood Daffodils in Michigan. I'd post it here but it was pdf Adobe format and I can't hyperlink. (at least I don't know how to do it.) . It seems like Reed (from Oakwood) has a lot of interesting collector daffs especially for Midwest Gardens featured this year. If anyone is particularly interested in the catalog I can figure out a way to copy and paste it or print it for you.

Went out to look at my "Frangrant Rose" daffs and looked on B & B to compare with "Accent" and indeed it does look like "Fragrant Rose" is the one.

I found this search page on B & B with lots of 'pink' daffs pictured on one page. Kind of interesting.

http://www.brentandbeckysbulbs.com/spring/search/bulbfinder.php?zone=&color=pink&soilmoisture=&sunvsshade=&height=&othernaturalizes=&origin=&extgenusid=44&fuzzygenus=&floweringtime=&otherresistant=&extfamily=&extnickname=&dateintroduction=&extdivision=&otherbbfavorites=&otherrockgarden=&otherinthelawn=&othercontaineruse=&othercuttingorpicking=&otherindoorbulbs=&submit=Search+For+Bulbs&page=1

And the 'Salmon' search:

http://www.brentandbeckysbulbs.com/spring/search/bulbfinder.php?zone=&color=salmon&soilmoisture=&sunvsshade=&height=&othernaturalizes=&origin=&extgenusid=44&fuzzygenus=&floweringtime=&otherresistant=&extfamily=&extnickname=&dateintroduction=&extdivision=&otherbbfavorites=&otherrockgarden=&otherinthelawn=&othercontaineruse=&othercuttingorpicking=&otherindoorbulbs=&submit=Search+For+Bulbs

And the 'red' search:

http://www.brentandbeckysbulbs.com/spring/search/bulbfinder.php?zone=&color=red&soilmoisture=&sunvsshade=&height=&othernaturalizes=&origin=&extgenusid=44&fuzzygenus=&floweringtime=&otherresistant=&extfamily=&extnickname=&dateintroduction=&extdivision=&otherbbfavorites=&otherrockgarden=&otherinthelawn=&othercontaineruse=&othercuttingorpicking=&otherindoorbulbs=&submit=Search+For+Bulbs

LOL! Definitely Fragrant Rose on that pic. Brian Duncan would have a heart attack if he thought they were ever confused with Accent! He considers Fragrant Rose the pinnacle (so far) of his breeding efforts and I think he has introduced over 1000 flowers. The flower with "everything" going for it. I can't grow it very well. :(

Suzy

I have to say that pink or not I am loving most of the daffodils here:) None of the "pinks" look all that pink to me ever. I also don't trust catalog photos entirely since most things are shot through filters or different lighting or color enhanced. I try to look it up here or in peoples photo buckets or whatever so I can see a variety of photos shot by different people in different lighting and in different parts of the country so I can have a more realistic idea of what the real color is.

As an experiment I have ordered a bag of mixed "pinks" from American Meadows . I have not used this company before hopefully the bulbs are healthy. Their pictures look pinker than other suppliers. I will plant these in a special spot in the yard next fall and document each one for "pinkness". Result will follow this time next year... Keep your fingers crossed that we have a "pink". ..check out their web sight..they have some nice glads... Ordered
a few of those too!

http://www.americanmeadows.com/FallFlowerBulbs/DaffodilFlowerBulbs/MixedPinkDaffodilBulbs.aspx

Wow! That one in the center is ridiculously pink=)

IF it comes even close to that pink..I will be a happy camper! I think
that is all we can ask.

So true:)

Don't hold your breath. If they look pinker than other vendors' it's because of the wonders of Photoshop.

This picture is for Tabasco -- It's my Purple winning entry at Indianapolis. These are all flowers from New Zealand-bred daffodils.

Top L-R:Twilight Zone, Pacific Glow, Sabre,
Bottom L to R: On Target & Patchit

Suzy

Oh, Illoquin, your Kiwis are beautiful. Congratulations on the win! So demure yet precise (both your daffs and you)! Did you import the bulbs or purchase them stateside? Just wondering if any came from John Reed's collection in Michigan...?


And Speaking of pink mixtures--what about this 'Pink' looking collection from Scheepers--The Rinus Rim Narcissus Mixture--

The Scheepers Catalog describes them as:

"This hand-selected, unique mixture includes Large Cupped Narcissi Audubon, Chiel, Have a Loek, Rick and Vio as well as three varieties that are so new that they are not yet named. Each variety has a well-formed ivory to white perianth and a trumpet- or bowl-shaped cup in ivory, pale yellow, golden-yellow, pale peachy-pink or apricot-pink with a wavy or frilled rim edged in contrasting rose-pink, reddish-orange or apricot-pink."

I wonder how they would look in real life--'Scheepers' certainly thinks they are something special.... (-:

Illoquin--I was looking at my Pink Daffodils again and thinking maybe they are 'Pink Charms' after all. I can't tell the difference between 'Pink Charm' and 'Fragrant Rose' from the Scheepers' pics. Any thoughts on that comparison?

And why wouldn't the 'Fragrant Roses' grow well for you? (and my apologies to Mr. Panill for confusing his daffs in my garden).

Sorry for peppering you with questions... and thanks for showing all the photos! Love it! t.

Oh Suzy, I LOVE Lavender Lass and Liberation! LL looks very true pink near the base, and Liberation is just wonderfully gaudy!

t, that's a mix up to be happy about, Fragrant Rose is a wonderful performer for me :-) I've had some mislabeling with B&B, but only on "special" varieties, of course. I ordered 5 Sentinal from them, and 4 were solid white and looked like 'Stainless'. And wouldn't you know that when I moved, the one bulb in the clump I sliced when digging was the correct one! The 'Lorikeet' I ordered from them was a solid golden yellow, nothing like the beauties I got from VanEngelen last fall.

I'm noticing the effects of location on color this year. On the side of the house I use lots of pastels there is filtered shade, and the pinks really color up well there. In the front of the house its quite sunny, and the 'Fragrant Rose' there is more orangy than coral, and the cups of 'Billy Graham' were more beige than pink. 'Jubilee' is out there in the sun too, and the cups are some of the pinkest I have, but when they were in partial shade they were deep coral. So, Billy's got to move, but the others look really pretty where they are with the changes. Sure does keep someone who's OCD about color, like myself, hopping LOL!

And speaking of color use when garden designing (tabasco, you'll appreciate this!), I've stumbled upon a grouping that has been smashing! It's in an area where the gardens are developing around the clumps of bulbs I planted in fall, so the whole hasn't been "lookatable" enough for me to get good pics (still working on it though- I'm good with cropping out the uglies, LOL). Anyhow, it includes 'Salmon Impression' and Clusiana species tulips, 'Caramel' heucheras, 'Precocious', 'Pink Charm', 'Decoy', and 'Salome' daffs. The various shades of salmon echoed in the 'Impressions', heuchera, the stripes of the T.clusiana, and cups of the daffs is lovely, and the buff yellow is echoed in the T.clusiana, heuchera, and cups of 'Salome'. The contrast of the buff yellow gives the whole color scheme a tropical sunset feel!

t, we cross posted. Love that mix!!! Those would be perfect to add to the area I was talking about above! From what I've seen in them thus far, Pink Charm blooms earlier than Fragrant Rose. FR has more yellow to the cup, while PC has more white and almost no yellow in the cup. FR is a little bigger bloom with firmer texture, and a taller grower too. Seems like PC cup is more bowl shaped (has a little more flare), and FR more cup shaped too.

Suzy, I meant to say "Congrats" on the win as well!

Thanks, gem, for all the detail. I will print out your post and add it to my notebook. So many good suggestions (aka 'ideas I can steal'! Do you mind?!)

And btw, I didn't mean to say B & B mislabeled. It was me. I just lose track so easily it makes me crazy. They did make a substitution from my sale order, but I don't blame them for that at all--that's just me trying to get a deal! (-:

I can't wait to see pics of your pink-coral-buff vignette. I think I will add a few choice heucheras to my "Fragrant Rose" drift too. An enticing contrast between daffs and heucheras. (I don't have T. clusiana but will look them up--I thought they were very early bloomers, but I guess not.)

I have lots of double whites coming into bloom this weekend. Some of them are very pretty. They are supposed to bloom with my azaleas, but the azaleas are still asleep (or dead!).

We had two tons of rock delivered to make edgings for two beds so we will be doing that today. Hope the back holds out!

Very quickly, I can address one question:

Ignoring any vagarities in color from one region to another which might account for more or less pink, or yellow, Pink Charm could never have the flat perianth (collective term for the petals and sepals) in your photo. It is wavy and ruffly, and I mean that in a bad way. It doesn't have such a nice, tailored cup, either; Pink Charm has a larger and more open corona (cup) with a lot of ruffley scallops on the edge. I would say the colors are probably the exact same, though...the perianth on both is cream colored, not white, and the color of the corona is probably nearly identical. The main difference would be the prominent green eye in Fragrant Rose ...the color code is GPP.

Open these links and put these pictures side by side:

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/828377/#new

http://www.daffseek.org/query-detail.php?photo2=689495c227e2a5a274f11e9f176def90&pagenum1=1

The flowers in the Scheepers collection are a bunch of Dutch bred bulbs that were never registered with the RHS. Keep in mind that the qualities the Dutch breeders are looking for has nothing to do with looks or how they grow in your midwestern garden. They breed for:

1. Long-term storage Qualities
2. Rapid rate of increase

and that's pretty much it.

The only one that is registered (assuming the names above don't all have typos :)) is Audubon --one of the very first daffodils I ever got (meaning it's as old as the hills.) The corona is rimmed in EXACTLY terra cotta -- the color of a flower pot. Sort of brown, really. A Mitsch selection from the 1960s, I am pretty sure.

I think you would be very disappointed in the collection and would do better buying named varieties and planting them in little clumps instead. We already know all the pinks will sort of go with one another because none is truly pink. :)) (I say this also because I bought a very similar mix of pastel tulips from a similar looking photo from White Flower Farm. All pretty peaches and pinks to pale lavender, they were actually a horrible mix of 2 bulbs from every different style of tulip in existance. Color was no considered...everything from cream to ghorrible magenta to bronze (which is about the last color I want to see in a spring blooming tulip). I got a replacement from them of Peaches and Cream which wasn't the same at all...I would have been better off buying the colors I wanted fom Brent & Becky's.

More later,

Suzy

You're very welcome, t, and of course I don't mind that you're inspired to tweak your color scheme, LOL. It always bothers me how the catalogs mis-describe things, when what it really is is often really lovely. Instead of forcing the "pink", flow with the peach, salmon, or coral that is still in my mind unique and lovely in daffodils.

Oh, speaking of T.clusiana, mine are just coloring up, with a clump lagging behind on the other side of the house, but this is about the typical time for them for me. I've had fewer of those nibbled by deer than the other tulips. They are very precious!

Suzy, that is so good to know about those Dutch daffodil mixes. Every tulip mixture I've seen has been cruddy like those you had, and that's disappointing in WFF. The only place I'd get a mix from is ColorBlends; they have a good rating, and specify the % of each variety in the mix.

Interesting about Audubon. I would have been really disappointed expecting pink, but considering using it with a matching tone heuchera and other foliages could be really attractive.

Colorblends site it awesome. They also have that Daffodil Depot there too. Hard to resist the Garanimals of Tulips and Daffodils they show there:)