Botulism symptoms in my chicks

Well I went to feathersite.com and followed a link that led me to Bobbi Porto. She's in Florida and has the Jersey Giants I'd like to get. We chatted for over half an hour. Sounds like a very nice person. If I can't find someone closer I will be ordering from her. Only reason to buy from someone closer is to save on the shipping cost which adds almost $5. to each chicks price.

MollyD

Mommahen, gosh, hard call to make, I have a duck assortment on order from MM and still not sure what to do.
I ordered Buff orps, RIR, Ameracaunas, aracaunas, New Hamp reds, silver laced wyandottes, and barred rocks.
keeping my fingers crossed that my babies dont have this,

maineiac,

Sorry to read about your chicks. At least now you know for sure that it's something that was most likely transmitted in the brooder. Have these chicks been quarantined from the rest of your birds?

MollyD

Hi Scott, I read the BYC forum. It sounds like asymptomatic infected hens are the source and the chicks are born infected with some transmission after hatching through feces and maybe water and food. Good thing you separated them from the others. I guess that anyone receiving chicks from MMH should keep them strictly quarentined for the first 2-3 weeks. Still wonder who actually owned the infected hens, MMH or a small contracted breeder. It would make a difference.

wow ya all have been busy posting,lol. i totally agree with cat, i don't think it has anything to do with weather or the buyers i think in MHO it is probs from the breeder stock and contamination from the hatchery.

i am glad folks are seeking out local small breeders to buy from. please remember being nice isn't enough. ask for their NPIP certification number, and how many years they have tested free of pullorum-typhoid. that is an indication that they are knowledgeable and responsible, though no guarantee they don't have sick hens...

if they don't know what you are referring to, steer clear!

so, just how importatn is it to get a certain breed by a certain day?

anyone willing to risk losing their WHOLE batch of chicks? even other's they have hatched? what about when you put them out with adult chickens?

Personally, i will not risk it. i am calling Welp before i place my bantam order with them. and if they have had any losses, i will pay more and get them from trunland in MN or xtreme in Elgin.

tf

I was wondering why alot of Dgers who were ordering chicks had alot of problems and high death rates . ?
im glad it is getting worked out and i am sorry for those of you who have had to have this hardship with your broods.
Let me just say that you are all in my thoughts and well wishes with this
sue

I have two orders coming. One from Ideal the first week of May and one from Murray the first week of June. I'm not canceling just yet, but obviously if this continues to be a problem then I will. I mainly ordered from them for their BLRWs also. Not to make light of a serious situation, but has anyone else noticed that the BLRWs are turning into the figurative "Tickle Me Elmo" dolls or the new "Halo" game for poultry enthusiasts! It seems everyone is scrambling (no pun intended) to get some, LOL : )

P78, I feel the same ways about the BLRW's that's why I ordered from MMH. I called them again to inquire about the illness was again told all was well at MMH. The way I look at it, my eggs are already incubating and I'm not aborting now. I will keep them from my grown flock for 2 months and hope for the best. Could you find any other BLRW chicks for sale? I found one place in FL and his price was $175 for 15 chicks. WOW!! I'll keep you posted. Chicks should arrive 3/31

I had to put down all 6 of my BLRW chicks this morning, they were suffering. In addition to those, I also put down 4 Buff Orp's, 4 Silver pencilled W's, 2 SLW's, 1 WW, 2 White rocks, 1 Serama, and 1 Partridge rock bantam. The last 2 were very weak, but not sure if it was AE or just bad genes. Either way, if I have to kill birds, I want to get it over with in one shot and not spread it out for days. Some of the birds may have made partial recovery, but I just wanted to be sure. Everybirdy else looks okay for now, God willing it stays that way!
I joined a group http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/BlueLacedRedWyandottes/ that has many sources for non-hatchery BLRW's, with some breeders of the original birds introduced to the US, those without that MM "brassiness" to their Red colors. I am going to get some eggs and start fresh with my "elmo" chicks...

R.I.P. little chicks

So sorry, Scott. It takes a lot of strength to do the right thing.

maineiac,

Sorry you had to put down your chicks. Sometimes we have to do hard things like that when it's best for those in our care.

Thanks for posting about your Yahoo group. It led me to find a Yahoo group for the breed I'm interested in Jersey Giants.

MollyD

I think we should all give maineiac a great big yahoo.. not just for doing the right thing for his birds but for letting us all know how we can still have our cake and eat it too without harming our current flocks...

Thanks for the info maineiac.. you have become my new hero..
(well you were before.. been following you with the seramas.. will beg for eggs later down the road;-)

Scott, am crying here for you. how are the kids taking it?

Thanks for all the sympathy, and kind words. It is hard but I feel good knowing that my brooder is full of healthy chicks and nobirdy is suffering.

I am getting BLRW eggs for $50 for 18 including the shipping from SterlingSue on the yahoo group I posted above. She has the type and color that everyone is looking for. I didn't know anything about the BLRW prior to 2 months ago, had I known more, I never would have ordered them from MMH. That is not a bash on MMH, but the stock they have came from a now defunct breeder that supposedly bred in GLRW to the original BLRW pool, which explains the undesirable "brassiness" of their stock. I understand that Sue's are expensive, but if you want the real deal, you gotta cough up some extra change.

TF,
You mean my kids that named our last three meat pigs, Hammy, Chops and Porkie? They'll be fine, but thanks for thinking of them. Animals teach our children some of life's hardest lessons (and breaks the ice for those birds and bees conversations too).

I agree.

Scott if you dont mind me asking. When did your chicks start exibiting symptoms, at what age?

ok what did ya do to get in trouble on byc??? shoot me a d-mail cause i missed the whole thing, rotfl. i am up to 5 baby seramas will take pics soon as the last 2 dry, i'm so excited!!! 51 eggs where good and went to the hatcher and there is 5 more i see pipped so far. i can't wait to see how many hatch and i got funky colors already,lol.
silkie

Did something happen on BYC???? I guess i missed it too. Scott are you going to get reimbersed by MMH? BLRW's are so beautiful. When will you be getting the eggs? What kind of incubator do you use?

i think there is a misunderstadning aon acronyms here, don't see where anyone got into trouble...

OK....i saw the back threads were deleted on the subject. Hey Scott......whatever......i had to learn to sometimes walk away when i dont agree over there. I find that there is ALOT of reference stuff over there that can help with situations we run into with the birds. Its worth it to be a member if you only use it to your advantage. I was going to warn you to be careful over there bacause its not always easy to converse.......sorry......i have gotten in trouble too , its cool :)

his user id says banned for a week under his name, for breaking rule#3 is what the mod typed with a link. the posts were deleted by terri. another member got a warning under hers. hey don't feel bad i've been biteing my tounge hard there for mths now, rotfl. i'm surprised i haven't got in trouble yet either. i totally feel for ya all this is serious and locking threads and blaiming the members is not what mods should be doing, they should be helping to provide info on possible diseases and virus and teaching them about biosecurity.

What were they upset about?

MollyD

Guess I'm glad I don't belong to BYC. I would probably stay in trouble there. I get into enough trouble right here on Dave's!!

To be honest, I was shocked when I saw BYC's moderators responses to the concerns that were being raised by some of their members. The health issues were serious and I didn't read any "bashing", just legitimate concerns that were being addressed by worried and thoughtful people. It makes you wonder......

No kidding.....Granny.......You go get 'em!!!! LOL.... The entire situation over the sick chicks is ridiculous over there. Scott was totally right and it just looks like he forgot to read Rule #3 or something LMAO!!!! whats up with that scott......how could you forget to read RULE #3???? Seriously.......there are 100's of people who got chicks since early feb from MMH and they are sick/dying left and right.......scott took the right direction on it all.....but there are people over there saying it could be from the care they are getting and people should not be blaming MMH. Anyway........I wish i could have seen all the deleted posts....I bet they were AWESOME!!!!!! I bet totally worth the punishment!!!!

You know, if it had been only one or two people having the chicks dying like they have been, then yeah, maybe it was the care if they had never had chicks before. But, when you get quite a few and it is only from one hatchery then of course you are going to wonder what gives with that hatchery.

I am certain McMurray is feeling the pinch of having sent out sick chicks, even if they did it unintentionally. But, for people saying not to blame them, I think they should have seen to it that breeders they are getting their chicks from are keeping healthy flocks. It is THEIR responsibility to oversee those operations when they are selling chicks under their name. Otherwise, as is happening now, they are the ones who are losing the business. And, of course word of mouth can do a lot of damage.

And I am sure BYC is concerned about liability in MMH losing business through word of mouth--but really what is the point of a forum is you are only allowed to discuss issues of little import. No one suggested that MMH was an illigitimate business--only that there seemed to be a serious health issue there at the moment. MMH has every opportunity to address the situation responsibly, and I hope they will. But censoring and blaming the victims as BYC chose to do seems very unprofessional and unethical. I had considered joining--but no way now. I have more confidence in the management of MMH right now than I have in BYC.

Well......BYC is a great resource because of the high number of people posting. Despite the tiffs going on over there....I think it helped scott see how big this MMH problem really was. And it helped me save my roosters life when he had intestinal prolapse. Being so big has its pro's and con's. I too think BYC is acting like they are kissing MMH's backside on the issue. MMH should step up and tell the people what they know. People like scott need to worry about others who were exposed to this. MMH seems to know something and i agree they owe the info to their customers. Poultry are vulnerable and i think people understand that stuff happens......but like Granny said.....when the #'s are this high......it not the water or the vitamins. Oh well.....this should all be over soon. Life is not fair!!!!

Hi cuckoo girl. I was originally going say that I thought the people posting on BYC are a great resource--but how good can they dare to be if BYC is always breathing down their necks and smacking them down like two-year olds? I think what Scott did was important and handled in an adult and intelligent way--what BYC did...not so much. I do think the MMH end of it will be over soon. They have been in business a long time and probably know exactly how to handle this kind of things. It is just one of the perils of the kind of business they do. Hopefully they just learned a little more....and will make good on everyones loses--at least the ones they can. Some of it can never be completely compensated for. Life really isn't fair--but its worth it:-)

i fully agree with all of u 100%. scott, u r my new hero!! come on i want details, d-mail me what happened already,lmao!!! oh i got some pics to post to hopefully help cheer ya some. by the way i'd of done the same thing, it's hard but u did what was best for ur babies and the rest of the flock that is what a good breeder does to protect or help their flocks. we have to, if we don't protect them noone will and they sure can't do it themselves. i've had to do it to on adults to protect my flock and the older they r the harder it is to do cause ur that much more attached to them.

big hug to u an family and hopefully this nightmare will be over soon,
silkie

here is a pic of my first serama pullet. look how much of a lady she is becomeing. :0)

wow, she is growing up!

i gotta tell you i appreciate Dave's! but lets not get to bashing BYC or he may come and do some deleting here. and this info is too valuable to chick buyers out there to risk that, right?

you did notice the banner in the corner at BYC advertsises hatcheries, and this problem is turning people away from said hatcheries, hence their stance on the "blaming".

kudos to everyone! keep it clean GG! ;-P

tf

here is one of the new babies just out of the egg before i fluffed it. look how itty bitty!!!

scott, look at my new little cuties my girl is nolonger alone, yeah!!

yep tf she really is!! i got 6 new ones so far. watch tinight they will zip while i'm sleeping and be all over in the hatcher in the am or they will wake me up at 3-4 this am crying again,lol. ya know that is a great point hatcheries sponsor byc and that explains alot and i never thought of that before.

oh my!

i have an OEG pipping early! brooder is ready, should i sleep w/ one ear open & plan to "fluff it up"? how do i do that, HELP!

i usually leave them in till they can walk but i got too many eggs to bump around and the babies r sticky cause there is a prob with the humidity so they r getting stuck. so i take them out shortly after they r out and i can hear them.

i hold them under the heat lamp and rub the fluff around gently as it dries it fluffs usually about a minute or 2 then i put them right to the brooder. ya have to be careful not to close to the light but enough they stay warm while wet so not to far away either. if ya notice in that one pic the baby is really wet but the ones of them r together after i fluffed and been under the heat lamp in the brooder.

i'm up 2- 7 babies now, i'm so excited!!!

OMG silkie.....those are so cute. I didn't realize how small they hatch out at. I have ee bantams that are kinda lavender with black splashing and one of them is giving me fertile eggs all of a sudden. The only rooster in the coop is a blue splash silkie and up til now he would not love the non-silkies. So i have a few eggs under a broody :) I am really going to need to buy a farm soon!!!!!!
You guys are all right......its time to move forward and what a great way to do it.......with pics of your babies. Well mine are 3 weeks now....but i feel i need to add one to contribute to thie 'move on' march.

oh silkie.. a face only a mother could love... for all of 2 seconds.. then the neighbors get in on the action lol..

how can you live with such a pile of chirping cuteness?

OMG, the OEG came out! my DH noticed and took him out right away, i had him put it back in till i read your instructions...

so, off to fluff, and take pics...

TF, I am being very good. I am determined to keep it clean. I washed it again this morning...LOL

Candled today, took out 7 infertile and bad eggs. All the others look the same, so am thinking they are viable. So, we're down to 32. Informed DH if they hatch, we will get some Buffs to go with them. But ours will be a couple of days older when we get them. Ah, that will work out okay. (I hope)