and here are two new growth lotuses in shallow pots and in shallow water to get them started. I had not yet placed any stones on top of the net. (That was a later invention).
Texas waterlilies etc arrived
The plants won't have any trouble finding their way through the netting. If the rocks are needed for stability keep them but the plants absolutely will not be bothered by the netting. That's quite a lot of work you've put in there!
one of my purchased lilies was already in bloom and I set it a bit deeper. I'm going to reset all of my new plants as they take hold of their new environment. I have a feeling they like to be planted shallow and gradually moved into deeper water. I think this was a Jack Wood. I actually have labels in each pot. I was going to write on the pot itself but then thought the better of it as I might want to replant and reuse. We'll see how these ink pens do under water.
snapple
what I am still puzzled about is how last years pots seem to have lost most of their clay. At one time they were full and I only added some stones to hide the clay and prevent digging. Now the plants themselves are half way down the pot and all I see are rocks. So where did the clay go?
I was afraid that if that stuff somehow disintegrates, the plant will be several inches below the netting and the lily leaves might already be too big to get through the holes. That's why I tried to keep the net as close as possible to the ground level.
A pot I tried the net with last year has the plant 1/2 way down the pot and the net is covered with algae. I'm waiting it to see if new growth will come and try to get through the net. In other words I'm watching what nature will do with my contraption. :-)
This pot I did the other day and already the clay is turning green from algae growth. I guess that's normal.
I definately want to have more lilie cover this coming summer to shade the fish and help limit the algae. Next year I can probably divide some plants and get even more. I'm really, really curious as to how these new lotus plants will look. Since I'll have them set up high on one or two eggcrates I wonder if they will be stable enough if they poke out of the water. Will a wind storm knock my tower of babel over?
Here's a part of my present nursery. One big lotus has not yet seen much sign of life. It is a big cormer in the bucket. When I looked at it, a whole bunch of little bugs came out of the holes at the bottom stem. I also saw a snail. These must have come with the plants as I never saw them before.
Fred
You are right to be concerned about wind and lotus plants. Those big leaves act like sails. Try to plan the tub so that they are sufficiently weighted and placed to withstand getting blown over. Kitty litter is a funny thing in my experience. It varies in composition from one manufacturer and from one region to another. Having it dissolve into the pond water sometimes happens. It does no harm and can actually be good for the koi and water quality. You can always just lift the root mass up and add more if you have to. Its messy but not a problem for the plant. I've had water lilys get out of the pot and just root in a few rocks in the bottom. They did surprisingly well there. A vigorous lotus, in the right water conditions which I guarantee you have, will be bigger than the side of a house in no time at all. Go ahead and set the water lilys at the depth they require. No need to gradually keep moving them deeper. Just plunk em down. The leaves will get to the surface just fine.
Things are looking really great...it is amazing how fast the water plants will grow.
If I ever get to Naples again, I will remember to let you know. By then, you will have a lush paradise in that pond...I love your area...I miss it already.
Fred great haul, Glad you found the milk crates and I hope they work as well for you as they have for me. You really are imaginative I would have never even thought of those dish drainers and they look like they could be very usable. The water lilies I put in my small pond are looking very good. I only put them in small pots for now but I will be up potting and feeding them a little later. I don't want them to do too much yet. I probably won't get to the water lotus until Sunday. I did bring in some dirt from the garden to warm up. They are still looking good.
Go Fred Go! Yea! Thanks for posting all the photos.
Please post pics of your blooms.
Hey Fred I mark my water plants with a plastic knife. I put the name and color on it and stick it in the pots. When I want to know which one it is all I do is pull the knife out read it and put it back in. I use a sharpie.
Betty
My clay kitty litter is missing from my pots also.. just a tiny bit left in the bottoms and is stagnant! What a terrible smell when I dumped it out of a pot.. now I know I need to do it with all of them.. even the ones with happy growing lilies might need this done. Maybe it has just compacted so much that it is very low in the pots.. good thing this stuff is soooo cheap.
Forgot to say.. my texas waterlilies look great but they had sting algae on them that was not noticeable until they were in the pond and it bloomed overnight.. my pond is a green mess now.. can't even see the plants further than 6 inched down.. I could see the bottom before and I have never had the string algae before.. now, how to get rid of it without hurting the plants or the fish.
This message was edited Mar 15, 2008 4:03 PM
Try peroxide.
Here are instructions from a previous post made by someone else
The typical range of doses used are 1-2 pints per 1000 gallons using 3% hydrogen peroxide with a repeat dose anywhere from 3 days to 1 week if necessary to as high as 1 pint per 100 gallons. Having said that you would decrease the volume added if you somehow got your hands on some of the commercial material (as used in Spas) which can be 10-12% or the industrial strength 'stuff' that can be quite high conc. Then all you have to do is proportion it to the size of your pond and the concentration of the hydrogen peroxide. If anyone would like I have a little spreadsheet that you can use - all you have to do is put in the volume of your pond and the % hydrogen peroxide and it will calculate the volume you need to measure; just drop me an e-mail. I will attempt to figure out a way to post it otherwise feel free to contact me.
As to removing as much of the string algae as possible: when you kill off the algae you're releasing a significant amount of organic matter into your pond. While the initial dose of hydrogen peroxide will temporarily increase the oxygen levels the elevated oxygen levels can be then used up over the next day or two as the organic matter is broken down (typically referred to as BOD or Biochemical Oxygen Demand). If your water temperature is warm, hence oxygen solubility is low and/or the rate of aeration (oxygen input) is not very high you could potentially run the risk of creating low oxygen conditions in your pond. I highly doubt this would be a factor if your pond temperature is below say 75°F and with any type of waterfall or spitter working. But if you're concerned then clean out as much as possible by hand using a stick or a brush on a stick or pole - I personally like a color-coordinated toilet bowl brush!!
Safety. Hydrogen peroxide is a strong oxidizer that's how it does it's business. It will bleach your hair and it will kill bacteria and string algae. However, as chemicals go it is probably one of the safer ones to 'play' with for the average home owner/pond owner ranking close to 'safe-use/potential toxicity' of salt. As to problems for you pets - remember that one of the common household uses for hydrogen peroxide is as a mouthwash (diluted 1:1 with tap water) in which you would inadvertantly swallow 'some' - it's often recommended by physicians or dentists to help with infections of the mouth. But that doesn't mean, in my book, that I'd go giving Fido a tablespoon or two in his drinking bowl!! I would not worry about animals or birds taking a drink out of a pond once it's been treated even if you're dosing at the rate of 1 pint per 100 gallons (which some have used).
Remember, they use a type of clay to CLEAR polutents out of the pond....so many times when you dump your lilies or lotus, to divide and split, it will smell really bad.... It's actually good for your water to have the kittylitter/clay as potting medium, as it absorbs a good many things!
:)
Hydrogen peroxide, straight out of the bottle, gets blood stains out of fabric like magic if used before the fabric is laundered. My vet was the one who told me about this.
I did finally get my water Lotus potted up and put out in the small pond last week and they looked real good and everything that had gone out into the pond earlier looks good as well as the plants that I originally overwintered out there. I kept the marginals in the house the Green Taro is growing so fast it is already 1 1/2 to 2 ft tall and I will need to up pot it soon and the Pink Pickerel that I kept in the house is flowering.
I still have too much algae, mainly string algae. I talked to the folks who put my filter system in and they said I should be doing 20 to 30% water change every month. I've not been doing that. It was also suggested I get 30 to 40 pleckos to chow down on the algae. Seems kind of silly to me.
'This afternoon I let quite a bit of water out and will let some of the algae on the sides of the pond die off but I also added a quart of peroxide to the water. Bubbles formed right away. I'm scared to add too much of the stuff even though I have a 9000 gal pond less what I removed. My mechanical filters or better the trap buckets at the pumps need to be cleanined daily less the clog up the water flow. I guess this is dead algae being removed. I had previously been using this mean green string algae killer. It helps a little but not on the perimeter.
Fred
Fred, I have string algae also. My water is nice and clear I don't have the kind of algae that blooms and makes the water cloudy but the string algae is pretty bad. I was just outside pulling some of it out of the pond the other day. We put Barley straw in the pond to help and I have noticed that it does seem to help. I believe there is an enzyme in the Barley straw that helps control it and they sell these Barley straw pads I have my pump sitting under one of the milk crates and I put the pads on the sides of the crate so that the water is pulled through them. Of course all I have in this pond is a circulating pump there is no real filter of any kind.
Hey string algae is really good to add to your compost pile, that's where mine goes.
It's a terrible mess though. My water is not 100% clear just a little brownish but I can see the bottom quite well. I wish I were near a farm that grows barley. The stuff is unbelievably expensive when bought at a fish supply store. I could use a bale or two and stick them right in my bio flters. :-)
I wonder what this peroxide will do. I have another quart I can put in tomorrow.
fred
Fred.....one quart in a 9000 gallon pond isn't going to do any damage to anything whatsoever (except for the string algae it comes into contact with)
Barley works slowly the same way, as it decomposes, it over oxygenates areas to kill off algae. It takes patience, but does really work. There is liquid barley extract if you don't like the hamster ball floating around in your pond. For years it has been used commercially by city park systems, in the ponds around town. They just dump bales of barley in around the edges of the pond. Sometimes, a slightly higher salt content, sprinkled around the edges where the algae grows, will help conquer the algae as well.
S.A.B. or S.A.B. Extreme from Aquascape, when used on a regular basis, eliminates string algae. You don't deal with algae at all after the initial clean up . The clean up amounts to a couple of extra filter cleanings within a couple of days time. The string algae does not return so that you have to kill it again like with hydrogen peroxide. String Algae Buster kills what is in the pond and prevents it from growing back. It contains enzymes that don't allow the cell walls of the algae to form. I have a full sun pond. I dose about every 3 to 4 weeks. I have clear water, clean rocks, healthy plants and fish, and no string algae whatsoever. I've used it for four years. It is expensive but a huge hassle and time saver.
Mary,
I'd love to get some Barley but at the prices they charge it's cheaper to buy chemicals. Besides, my pond has no edges as such, just a straight drop. Can't pour anything on the algae. If I had the stuff I could put it in bags into my bio filters.
Fred
Snapple,
EcoSystems S.A.B. Extreme 7lbs costs $150 but is says nothing about killing string algae. I found http://www.aquasuperstore.com/products/EcoSystems-S.A.B.-Extreme-7-lb.~5737.html and did a chat with them:
Jane: Thank you for choosing Aqua Superstore. We carry over 30,000 Pool, Spa, Pond, Patio and Backyard Items at A Guaranteed Low Price - How may I make you smile today?
you: S.A.B. Extreme by Aquascape costs $150 and has been recommended to kill string algae but it says nothing about that feature on your web pages. Will it get rid of my string algae?
Jane: That info just must not have been added to our site.
Jane: We get it from aquascape
Jane: So it is the same item.
you: but can you answer my question?
Jane: Let me look at the item.
you: Or maybe I should ask what you would recommend to kill string algae.
Jane: I must say that I am not real familiar with string algae. In the aquascape book that I am looking at it says nothing about string algae.
you: Oh, it's one of the great nuisances of the pond world.
you: Can you check into this for me and email me at fredrump@gmail.com?
Jane: Yes i will call the aquascape company tomorrow for you.
----------------------------
So if the supplier doesn't know let me clarify your post to myself. You say String Algae buster keeps your string gone. Is that in the Extreme or another product? What am I missing here?
Fred
I learned of this product from a professional publication for the water gardening industry trade entitled Pondkeepers magazine. It is now called :
http://www.pondkeeper.com/
I didn't keep the article. Sure wish I had. The initials S A B stand for string algae buster. It was initially brought into the market by a different company and then Aquascape bought the company to get the product line. I have noticed that Aquascape is much less informative on their labels than the original company was. I suspect it is because the product might be too easy for another company to duplicate at a lower cost.
I use both S.A.B. and S.A.B. Extreme. The Extreme form supposedly has some added enzymes, bacteria and something similar to the Green Clean algaecide. This latter formulation is for heavier initial cleanups, for problem ponds with a high nutrient level and fish load and "scrubs" the algae film from rocks. About once a season I use the Extreme version to scrub the rocks. I could just use the regular SAB, but would probably have an algae film on the rocks. What works in either of these two products is a particular enzyme that does not allow the cell walls in string algae to hold together and thus totally disrupts growth. (This is from memory from reading the magazine article some time back.) What I do know absolutely from experience is that with regular dosing it ended my string algae problem permanently. It does not change the pH of the water. It does not harm any other plants. It does not harm fish or snails. As of the close of the ponding season last year it was the best product I've ever found and the only product I've ever found that worked on string algae. I've got two 7 lb tubs (one of each) in the garage waiting for this season. I am not into testamonials. This product is expensive. I wouldn't hestitate to inform any ponder if it quits working because of change in formulation. But so far, this the only product that works. If it quits working I've got a lot of money invested in those two tubs in the garage. Worse, the thought of returning to the bad old days of constantly battling string algae, is something I don't care to contemplate.
Mary
Oh Mary, you made my day with that testimonial. You'd think the resellers of this stuff would know something about it but I guess that's par for the course.
My big bucket of mean green seems to control the strings bit not eliminate it unless I empty the pond and spread the stuff all over. I can't do that as I have no place for the fish and couldn't catch them anyhow.
Tomorrow I will order a bucket of each. When you say 'scrubs' the rocks. Who does the scrubbing, you or the chemical?
Today I was on a garden tour and saw a marvelous pond without string algae. You can either look at all my pics of the tour at http://picasaweb.google.com/fredrump/20080320 or just look at one picture below. The tour was overwhelming and I can't really go into it as I'm still digesting what I saw. The pictures don't do the gardens justice as some things just can't be shown as they are in pictures.
Fred
t
The chemical component of the 'Extreme" form kills and lifts the algae coating right up off the pond surfaces, rocks, liner etc. It does the work. Within a few minutes you begin to see the dead crud lift and the chunks circulate until they are filtered out. Expect to see debris laden water for up to 24 hrs depending on the amont of crud and your filter rate. During this time you will begin to see a dying off of the string algae. It turns into a grey/green gelatinous mass that gets trapped in the filters. Your water clears quickly. With the plain SAB (enzymes only) form you just see a dying off of the string algae over a 24 hour period and the string algae does not begin to return for up to a month, at least under weather and sun conditions in this zone. Dose regularly and you won't see any string algae at all. You don't just throw it into the pond. You mix it well first in a bucket of warm water, then pour it around the perimiter of the pond. We have cooler shorter summers here so dosing is probably less frequent than you might need to do.
I'll be the first to agree that the labeling of SAB and SAB Extreme is ambigous at best.
My, that's a nice water garden!
Mary
Mary,
apparently the regular SAB is no longer available. See about 'extreme':
This product is the new and improved replacement product for Aquascape Designs S.A.B. (String Algae Buster).
Clear water containing the typical nutrients found in water gardens simply grows string algae when exposed to the sun! Not anymore! S.A.B. Extreme is the answer to you prayers and the end of string algae problems. This product is not a chemical and is 100% safe for fish.
S.A.B. Extreme is formulated to help reduce pond maintenance and promote the growth of beneficial bacteria na enzymes. S.A.B. will assist in the breakdown and reduction of debris in the stream, waterfalls, and pond. S.A.B. Extreme works by adjusting the micro-nutrients in the water of the pond resulting in conditions that are beneficial for good water quality and clarity. It will not harm fish and plant or dusrupt the balance of the pond's ecosystem. Use it. See for yourself. Not a chemical. 100% safe for fish. Fortified with bacteria.
======================
In my search to order, it was quite a revelation to see the variance in price from $169.95 plus $30 shipping to $109 inclusive of shipping. Amazing. Anyway, I ordered two 7 lbs buckets along with some barley straw. At http://www.gardenponds.com/ they had package deals of extreme along with Eco Blast which also does string algae control. I couldn't figure out why I would need both so I just got the extreme but two of them and it's all you fault. :-)
Fred
Aqua Superstore just got back to me after they had called Aquascape. The manufacturer suggests using Ecoblast first and then to use Extreme as a maintenance product. So I ordered the Ecoblast too. :-(
fred
The original SAB formula is still available. It isn't easy to find though. You are right that there can be wide differences. It pays to Google.
http://www.phoenixorganics.com/index.asp?spage=search&products=on&tid=188905&rpp=10&prodwherestr=(name+LIKE+'%25sab-string%20algae%20buster%25')+order+by+name
Mary
My Fault!? Well yeah, your probably right.
This message was edited Mar 21, 2008 5:15 PM
Mary,
I spent most of the day in and out of the pond today. I powerwashed everything I could with the water about 6 inches lower then normal. Then I fished algae out of the pond for what seemed like hours. It kept floating up to the top and I used a net to skim as much as I could. I also cleaned the intake buckets twice at the pumps. I had added my other quart of peroxide and a shovel full of mean green to get rid of my old chemicals. I should get the ecoblast and the extreme next week to give it another go. Then maybe I'll get the pond to look like yours.
I also found another water lily plant floating about. I thought I had everything secured but somehow the fish must pull them out. They are voracious and will keep trying to get whatever they want. I replanted with more rocks and a net covering. I also find leaves that must have been bitten off.
Happy Easter
Fred
This message was edited Mar 21, 2008 7:37 PM
It's not at all unusual to see a koi towing around a water lily root. Nor is it unusual to see rake marks where they have chomped on a lily pad leaf. Expect some collateral damage, but if the plants are healthy they can withstand a certain amount of leaf abuse.
All that work with repeated algae cleaning should slow immediately and then stop once you get an SAB dosing schedule figured out. I havn't cleaned any string algae at all since I started using it. My concern for you is that with your much warmer weather and almost perpetual season it won't be cheap to maintain an algae free pond. It will be so much easier though. You could knock back all the green soup algae with UV's but I know how you feel about that. ;>) Annual replacement of bulbs is expensive too. Here it's every other spring because of the shorter season.
The Easter Bunny has to wear snow shoes in these parts this weekend. A spring snow storm is dumping 6-8" of snow as I post this. Enjoy your holiday too.
Mary
Once I get rid of the string algae I'll be ok with other algae as the filters will take care of that. My water is pretty clear just a bit brownish. At this point the filters are a pain to clean too often because of all the dead string algae floating about. I hope that once that is gone all will be well again as it was in the past. I really, really hope that this SAB stuff will work for me.
Fred
So do I Fred, So do I.
Hey - Fred, I'm holding my breath here! Did the stuff get to you yet and are you using it?
I got two cans of SAB today but I'm going to go with the factory recommendation and use the Ecoblast first. That hasn't arrived yet. Presently my water is clear but there is lots of stuff floating on the top. My skimmer is not working well enough to suck enough of it up.
I clean my pump strainers daily though.
Fred
Snapple,
ecoblast arrived Friday afternoon. Will see what two cups will do.
fred
Snapple,
I opened the ecoblast and it was only 3/4 full but I guess that's how they market the stuff for so much money. I put two scoops of the stuff in the pond (about 1/2 of the bucket). They water immediately started to bubble but those quickly dissolved and the pond turned smooth. I'm not sure what to do next. Wait a few days and then use the SAB Extreme? I still have string algae all over the stems of the water lilies. The fish (one especially) nibble at the algae and I find one or more lily leaves in my skimmer every day.
The fish who loves the algae sometimes is almost completely out of the water as he goes to work on algae were there is a low waterfall flow. But the others don't do that.
Here's the bubbles
this is the algae lover doing his thing
Snapple,
my water today was like crystall clear. Don't know if that was happening anyway or a result of the ecoblast. I then decided to finally unpack my pondvac3 which I purchased last July. The darn thing has absolutely no instructions packed with it, just a piece of paper with some pictures and numbers on it. I still have no idea how it is supposed to work but tried it out on our fountain which was getting pretty grimy. At first I assumed that the water is sucked into the vaccum and pushed out clean back into it's source. That did not work at all as the pump is so weak it couldn't even lift the water back up over one foot. A real toy I thought. So then I took the discharge hose out of the fountain and things worked a little better. Lots of gook came out the discharge pipe and I quickly had to refill the fountain with fresh water. It sort of did what I wanted it to do but what a mess. I now have to get a pressure cleaner and wash everything away plus clean the fountain itself.
So off I go to the pond to try my luck there. An absolute disaster as the pump kept getting clogged with string algae. I quickly gave up on trying to clean the pond until I rake the bottom to fish out all the globs of garbage down there. As far as I see it the pond vac does a wonderful job on a clean pond. Sort of defeats the purpose though. Still think it's a toy for little ponds.
So now I got out the SAB and read the directions of 1 table spoon per 150 galllon or 60 table spoons minimum to mix in warm water and dump into the pond. I did that and the water turned white in that area but the fish went right in to dig around in the algae. They seem to love that stuff. So we'll see what happens. The directions call for repeated applications. Luckily I bought two tubs (again only about 2/3 full) and one application takes about half a bucket. All this stuff seems to be marketed to small pond owners with directions for 1 tblsp per 150 gal.
I pulled out quite a bit of string algae but much of it is attached to the pond floor. Maybe this SAB will finally get rid of it.
Fred
You are on the road to get rid of the string algae. I hope once you get it under control that the maintenance dose doesn't require so much product. I need 14 TBS roughly once every three weeks. A 7lb tub gets me through our shortened season. However I don't use the Ecoblast. I think using that might lessen your need for the S.A.B. Hopefully! One thing this will do is spoil you for not wanting to deal with all that string algae again. My husband had one of the best laughs of his life when he saw me trying to clean the pond with the pond vac when I had the discharge hose hooked up in reverse. Suffice it to say it doesn't work that way. I had no idea what the problem was and was ready to throw the thing in the trash. I discharge the hose into a small bog garden at one end of the pond. The plants love it. It surely is task where you wear your oldest clothes.