Piggie Swap babies and seed starting #2

Funny, my thing is thorns or prickles of any kind. The only thing in my garden that I allow that has thorns or stickers is roses. The yard I grew up in was a menace to children-Holly and Oregon Grape, Hawthorns, junipers, roses, quince. It was my job to prune things... so I vowed not in my yard...

Thistles are bad news around here. I can't destroy them fast enough. I hope I have finally eradicated them from our fields. They will take over in no time if you don't catch them in time. They tear up the horses legs and if they put their head down too close to one to eat grass it scratches their eyes.

They are pretty only in pictures to me. But lots of people like them.

We get thistles as weeds here, too-there are several on the WA invasives list. Can't stand them! Where my house now is used to be a pasture, so I still battle them a little every year, but they aren't nearly as bad as they were. (hate finding the baby ones by stepping on them!) I didn't know that they would hurt horses, too. (City kid here, know nothing about horses)

I think they are cool because their leaves are shaped like hollies and some are twisted and the variegation then the silver green foliage on purple stems is beautiful too! I know a lot of people don't like them :) Sometimes I'd like to grow them in the field then I wouldn't have the kids trashing my field after and during football games lol

I grew up with a lot of stickers too because I was in the woods a lot when I was a kid and we had black berries and a couple of holly trees plus cedars around the yard so I know to keep my distance and they aren't planted anywhere the kids travel thru the yard. I guess animals could put their eye out with them, that would be awful!

I like weedy plants I have one for this year that I grew from seed last year that is yellow and gets tall but I can't think of what the name is I hope it's a big plant this year! I've gotten several weedy plants to plant in my wild bird garden for this spring if they all germinate for me from the swap, thank you very much!!! So far I've found four lol I have so many seeds I don't know what I have STILL LOL

Those thistles you are talking about are the ones with thousands of stickers on them I don't care for those either though I did let a couple grow last year, wasn't much to see, one of the yellow ones but a small flower for the plant. My thistles don't have as many stickers but they are bigger! LOL

Yes, the ones I get here are the ones with the big nasty thorns. We had one once that got really tall, too. It had purple blooms. Impressive, but painful. If I had acreage I probably wouldn't care as much, but I'm on a city lot and there isn't a lot of space.

Oh, and we have Himalayan blackberry here, too. That stuff can bury cars!. Tasty berries, but hard to get rid of and big fat thorns.

This message was edited Feb 15, 2008 9:16 PM

I don't like getting speared by one of the thorns either but some of the plants are really beautiful. I can't imagine my garden without milk thistle. My last plant got 6' tall and was a real eyecatcher. But I have to admit that the thorns are brutal- really brutal lol.

I had thistles the year I moved into my house before we had the lawn put in. the only thing I liked about it was the goldfinches. they were all over it. I have a finch feeder now, but the darn HOSP take that over...they didn't bother with the thistles.

When I visited the Huntington Gardens in Pasadena last year, they had their perennial garden designed around a magnificent 8 foot tall thistle-like plant. I asked the name of it and the gardener said (esentially bug off!) "the seeds came from Italy and they are illegal for home growers!" I'm not exactly sure what she meant by that but it was a beauty!

I am sure I can get those seeds somewhere here on DG. But I didn't tell her that!

Maybe I can find a picture of it.

I love strange combinations/pairings of plants. There isn't a lot of interest in planting like that among Ohio gardeners. But maybe that's a function of climatic conditions too...

illegal to home growers? sounds like a massive brush-off, or they're hiding the fact that it's labeled an "invasive". And I LOVE cardoon! It's so very odd!! But it takes so much elbow room that I don't think I can fit it in here.

Hello fellow seed fiends!

Just came from the plant room to document todays germination and had to check in. I was happy to see pink and cherry Rocket snapdragons up today and also found a little mystery. The pot I have marked Eucomis bicolor (pineapple lily) is germinating; the strange thing is the seedlings are dicots and I was expecting monocots. Kind a look like morning glories of some kind, so I bet I screwed up my labeling somewhere. Weird think is the seed looked like the seed of another variety of Eucomis I sowed. They were sown on 2-9 and germinated today which seems a little fast to me.

I was glad to read after sowing some canna seed that I did the right thing! After soaking in H2O2 solution for a couple of days they were still so hard I used sandpaper on them.

The Eryngium conversation reminded me of one I wintersowed called E. yuccifolium.

http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/showimage/87543/

I gathered the seed from the landscape in front of the recycling center in Morhead (the town I moved from last spring) because they looked so unusual to me. I WS some last year only to have the container go missing (I suspect a certain dog...ggrrr..). Thank goodness I held on to some seed! I'm wondering if they would also be an appropriate host plant. They don't have quite the unapproachable look as the other thistles, and I think they'll make a good contrasting form with other flowers in the garden.

Must go place my seed orders today! I've put it off till sorting all the seed I have, thinking it may stop me....yeah, right! But I do have some "legitimate" needs for a few things I want to sell through my little business venture this spring.

Happy seeding all!
Neal

Well, I was thinking it was a kind of Cardoon, but she sure wasn't telling! Beautiful, though!

And I think they can be invasive in the right climates (like CA) and that's what she must have been talking about not for the home grower...I think she said they were careful to dead head.

OK now you've piqued my interest, gem! What's you 'little business venture'!??

believe me, if it was an invasive thistle you don't want it anyway. We have Canada thistle and it is a pain-in-the-butt to keep in check.

Several years back I was so excited we had thistle, purple, lovely, Painted Lady butterflies adore it so I allowed it to grow and OMG it was like all the thistles' roots underground got the green light signal and a 20' wall or so long of it started to appear a foot or so at a time! Freaked me out, I've been pulling up every sprout ever since which is why I never got into planting poppies.

Some poppy seedlings look so similar. But I'm going to give in and try growing poppies after this swap :) and I can't wait. I'm going to put them in a different area even though my Canada thistle area would be the best area for them.

this is a globe thistle I tried that never came back for us

Echinops Sphaerocephalus globe thistle “artic glow”

Oh, I forget where I was when I mentioned it before, lol. I'm going to provide plants to the Good Foods Co op in Lexington starting this spring. My concentration will be on heirloom flowers and later in summer cut flowers too. I actually have an excuse to grow a field of flowers!

gemini, should eucomis seeds be sown indoors now?

I think the Eryngium is beautiful Gemini

wind, I really don't know, LOL. I kinda fly by the seat of my pants with a lot of this. Typically the earlier the better for tender bulbs and tropicals, but many of them are native to areas where anytime is ok. My reasoning for starting them now is just thinking they'd be slow to germinate and I want to give them a nice, long growing season to form bulbs.

ansonfan, they were striking with grasses, sedums, and coneflowers where I gathered the seed. I still have plenty of seed if you (any of you) would like some. Gathered fall of '06 and kept in the freezer.

This may be off topic here but if anyone is solely interested in these plants being discussed- as butterfly hosts -I put together a little list:
As far as use as host plants:
Thistle and Echinops are in the Asteracea family. This one would potentially be used by *Painted Ladies. So there is really no need for thistles if you find them invasive as you can use lots of other more garden friendlies.

Sea Holly is in the Apiaceae family. - So this is potentially used by black swallowtails along with parsley, dill or zizia. (aslo in this family) I found black swallows on rue in my yard which is the citrus family which is also used by Giant Swallowtails)

American Lady - Caterpillar hosts: Plants in the sunflower family everlasting (Gnaphalium obtusifolium), pearly everlasting (Anaphalis margaritacea), plantain-leaved pussy toes (Antennaria plantaginifolia), wormwood (Artemisia), ironweed (Vernonia), and burdock (Arctium).

*Painted Lady - Caterpillar hosts: More than 100 host plants have been noted; favorites include thistles (Asteraceae), hollyhock and mallow (Malvaceae), and various legumes (Fabaceae).

I am not sure of what we are calling thistles but see below for red admiral hosts.
These plants all seem to be very weedy.. I haven’t found any better suggestions for the garden as far as non-invasive.
*Red Admiral - Caterpillar hosts: Plants of the nettle family (Urticaceae) including stinging nettle (Urtica dioica), tall wild nettle (U. gracilis), wood nettle (Laportea canadensis), false nettle (Boehmeria cylindrica), pellitory (Parietoria pennsylvanica), mamaki (Pipturus albidus), and possibly hops (Humulus).

nice list meredith :)
I'll have to add it to my butterfly gdn notes, thank you!

I was just dmailing LeBug about the ironweed. I like that and sent in some seeds for the swap. I'd like to try burdock some day. I just started hops last year and I'm hoping our stinging nettle patch returns. I have rue and sea holly swap seeds to try.

We had rue for the longest time next to our compost pile and I think my mother ran it over with the lawn mower! She means well helping out outside but she dosn't care for my gardening style with plants all over the place! When I hear her turn on the weed wacker, I almost always have to keep an eye out that she dosn't chop down plantings!!!!

gotta love her though!

I have sooo many Red Admirals and am quite blasé about them. I have no idea where they come from, or what plants they like, but I must have a LOT of those weeds nearby!

Neal, Hidee-hi! Good to see you!

Suzy

Wind, I am trying to talk my sis into letting me grow some hops on her property - but she's unsure of the trellising that may be required. What are you growing yours on?? (Inquiring beer drinkers want to know!!)

hi dryad, I'm growing ours on a regular metal arbor. You can't see anything in this photo (was before it started), I'll have to take a new photo this summer and post it. It climbs quickly and easily like a morning glory does.

I was inspired to grow it when I saw a homemade wooden, very long trellis full of it in upstate NY a few summers ago. It is so pretty and the blooms are green :)

you might be interested in this
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/732250/

I've never really even considered growing hops. I think I might after looking at those pics.

if it is seed worthy, I'll gladly harvest them and share in the next piggie swap :)

I have a confession to make...I dmailed gemini for E. yuccifolium seeds!!!!!!!! with all the seeds just rec'd I couldn't help myself

I forgot to mention gemini, "is there anything you are looking for?" I have quite a lovely selection here...

I bought a hops plant 2 years ago and its growing in part shade, and so far it has been shy about taking off. I think it may be the shade, but this past year it did grow up to about 6' and looked healthy. I got the little 'hops' on the vine but I couldn't figure out the seeds for some reason. I think that its important to only have the female of the vines to produce fruit. Sellers only offer female plants, so with seed how do you know what you get. Worth considering.

Meridith--

Thanks for posting the Butterfly host plant list. Do you post in the Butterfly Forum? We need more northern butterfly gardeners posting there! I have hops vine in our yard, but it seems like a pokey grower to me. Maybe it needs a different spot. Hadn't thought of making beer with it!

Gem--I'll have to toddle on down to the Farmers' Market in Lexington! Sounds like a fun project and good use of your land.

Oh wind, your garden is beautiful. : ) I saved that picture on my computer, so I could go back and look at it, over and over. Hope you don't mind.
~Lucy

Blueglancer/Lucy is right -- it's very charming! Welcoming.

S.

Morning all!

I guess for hops you need male and female ones, if you want to have seeds that is. If you grow only female ones, you'll have bells but no seeds. From seed you'll only know what you have when they get mature, i.e. when they get to flower!

BTW, some people over hear let hops scramble up a tree. Works very well!

Meanwhile, I did some sowing this week. Also a lot of Suzie's goodies. This may not look like much but 120 species have been sown here, with another 30 to go! And that's only the first batch. These are all perennials. If you sow early they sometimes bloom in their first year.

Next batch will be sown a month from now. These will be the halfhardy and tender annuals, about 150. Climbers and tender veg will follow two months from now. About 50.

Half of my seeds will then be sown. The rest I will sow where I want them to grow, somewhere beginning April.

Here you can see how I did it: http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb270/AnkeFreese/Kraamkamer/kraamkamer2008.swf

And my reward is already there, some babies have been born already!

This message was edited Feb 17, 2008 11:27 AM

wind, your garden is gorgeous! Such an inviting setting.

Have any of you saved seed from Sonata Cosmos? I'm curious if they come true as dwarfs from saved seed. I really love them; short, bushy, and bloom really fast from seed. I saved a few to experiment with. The white ones are very popular, but not a single white showed up in the mix I grew last year, so I'm getting the colors seperately this year.

Suzy, I sure wish I lived a little closer to you; I bet you and Robin had great fun seed sorting!

t, you know you don't need to purchase anything I have, it's already yours :-)

wow Tuink...may not be much! you do have much!!!! I'm thinking that planting in cups is a good idea to squeeze in more variety.

I'm beginning to wonder if all my WS seeds are going to be possible otherwise. I might try it. I saw some people using baggies but they are too flimsy for me to deal with I think.

tuink, thank's for sharing your video...

do you feed your seedlings? I'm thinking of ordering that food LeBug uses...I've never fed my seedlings before

Thanks wind! Beautiful garden!!! Definitely gonna try hops this year.

Tuink - I gotta get busy!!! You are way ahead of me :)

Running errands today, but will try to get back to seeding tonight.

Oh Tuinkabouter, I just love your "kraamkamer" - delivery room. Takes me back years (to when my Grandpa was still alive) .... :)

I'm courious, how many people do feed their seedlings and what do they use?

tuink, nice line up of your seedlings, and thanks for the video that was cool!

tuink, Do you ever start hardy geranium seeds and how do you do them if you do. I had a bunch of seeds last year but only got a couple to germinate for me, I have lots this year too and would love to know how someone else starts them, I got a couple this year from Weez's seeds.

I use an herbal tea water. Celestrial brand I think is the name. Does that count as a feeding?