I think most of these things are done from not thinking things through. I know I sure don't like getting an envelope with print so small I can't read it without a magnify glass. I know postage is expensive, but that's just silly. Not to mention getting a regular envelope full of tiny seed with NOID. Good thing I was expecting just those, so I knew what they were.
Well, I added an article on this subject to my lists of to dos. And a "sticky" on Seed Etiquette would be great!
Seed trade problems
Thanks Doccat, you're a blessing.
I think there are a lot of great ideas, and more to be had once people find this thread! We will have to try and keep it 'bumped' so more people can notice it on the front page once the Holidays are over! :)
Yes, please help do that.
Doccat, the sticky should also be posted on the Round Robin Forum, ya think?
Will do!
And if my opinion counts, I think it should as well! :)
I think that's a great idea..I'll bet Dave or Terry will do it if you contact them. Misty, you opinion always counts.....:)
Awe shucks, thanks doccat! :)
I just wrote Dave about the situation, let's cross our fingers.
Got em all crossed! :)
Maybe the request for better labeling could go in the seed trading primer at the top of this forum? I just read it again and didn't see much about labeling, but maybe I missed it.
http://davesgarden.com/tools/trading_primer/
The seed trading primer might be more visible as a sticky - I have a hard time seeing the green type as a hot link button.
Robynznest,
I posted this thread elsewhere - under Saving Seeds thread, but I'll cross post here since I feel it may help some.
New Seed Packets Uploaded
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/799616/
I'm open to adding to that list with some suggestions.
Please Dmail me privately for request.
Paul
Well, I think I'm going to change my ways. When I trade seeds, I know there should be an acceptable amount (what is it? 25?). Sometimes I will tell the person I don't have a lot of a particular one, but I'll send what I can. I remember one that I told the guy I could only spare about a dozen. I threw in some other things, so I felt OK. And if I throw in a few extra seed packets, I give what I can, since it is an 'extra' anyway, and don't worry about how much is there.
But...what if the person trades one of the 'extras' I send, that might not have 25 seeds or more in it?
Oh Oh!
So, sorry, folks, I will change my ways and put the number of seeds on the packet somewhere, and if I can only give a pinch of something I will make sure the person knows it is just a pinch.
Claypa, I read it too and did not find any info anywhere about labeling the packets and I agree it would be better as a sticky. I never knew the darn thing was there for over 6 months. I couldn't see it either. 'old eyes i guess'
Paul, those are great seed pack enves. I like them. Maybe something on the order of a blank one might help, I don't know for sure if it would help. Wish I was that creative on the puter, I get lost getting to all the forums.
Brightstar, I don't think everyone expects 25 seeds each time. I sure don't. I try to give what I think is fair and what I hope they can send back to me. If there is only 3 seeds, just let them know. Most people are glad to get them and handle them with more care. If I'm given a large handful of Zinnias, I tend to kind of push them around and maybe drop one or two and not bother looking for it. But just a few Zinnia seeds and I'm holding my breath, but I'm so happy to get them.
I can't say for sure that we are having problems in this area, just the labeling. I try to be as generous as I can with everyone.
If the person trades one of your extras off then they need to let the next person know it's a trade and about how many seeds are included. Most people don't need 25 seeds of one flower, they just want a few.
This is solely my opinion and does not reflect what the rest of the DGers believe.
Okay everyone. We got the ok to creat a how-to that will be posted as a sticky.
What we need is ideas/input of what we want it to say. Someone who has better writing talents than me. Then it will be a new sticky.
Example:
Seed Type Salvia
Seed Name Lady in Red
Latin Name. Salvia coccinea
Type: (annual,) perennial, bi-ennial zone year harvested 2007
seed sowing After Frost color Red Height. 12 - 18'
DG name Robynznest
Everyone chime in here. I think on hand written labels a link to Daves would be a little to hard, but a printed one would be a great add on.
We need to make this simple and easy for everyone.
This message was edited Jan 2, 2008 12:18 PM
This message was edited Jan 2, 2008 1:58 PM
Newbies need to know HOW TO START the seed:
ie: stratify, scarify, Wintersown, After frost, transplant okay, no transplant....
I also included the Dave's Garden link page on the envie for direct link.
Dave's Garden Name space is needed.
Year harvested is needed
My two cents....
Great thread, and future sticky.
Not sure we can get all that on a label or what ever people use, but great two cents worth. I will edit my post and we can go from there.
Did you want height and spread and color, etc.....?
Here is a good thread that X started:
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/796514/
Gee, I wish I had all of this info available before I sent out my first seed trade pkg. I sent some pkgs that were sent to me from the newbie seed offering. They were very much packed with all the above mistakes. Including I taped the little packets together. Duh!! I just didn't think about the seeds spilling out when removing the tape. I think the way I taped it though, it won't cause a problem. I mostly just used a tiny smidgeon of tape to hold together the little packs requested by one person.
The information I included was the information I was sent which in most cases was not much. I split packages of seeds which I had bought on ebay and I included whatever info was on the packs, some being more than others.
Well, I know now, but I am afraid it is too late for the ones I mailed off on Monday.
Don't be too hard on me, this is my first time to do this and I really apologize for my ignorance on the trading of seeds.
Charlene
I'm currently working on an article about this and am noting all these great ideas. How many seeds do you normally offer in a trade? That seems to be an issue and I'm not sure why. Can someone help me out with that?
charlenesplants, don't be hard on yourself you are a newbie and threads like this are for people like you to learn we all have to start somewhere :) and we all learn by our mistakes :)
Right charlenes, don't worry, we've all been there and done that. This thread is going to help with all in the future. It just has to be tweeked.
I think the color and height is great although, spread is very easily looked up, so this could be an option if there is space on your label.
Okay, this is confusing but there's two of these threads.. Here's what I posted on the other thread..
Robynznest, I agree with you but sometimes when you trading and you pass on trades, we just label with what we are sent. So I'm wondering if the vague ones are ones that other people sent them.. Like myself as a new gardener, I don't have much in terms of harvested seeds. But for the stuff I harvested from my garden, I usually label with my DG name and the latin name (with flower color if comes in different color). But I have plenty of traded seeds that don't have much info except basic generic name so that's what I put on them when I sent them in for other trades.. I just try to put the trader's name on there if it's labelled..
Another note, is that I put the latin name (and the common name) on the seed packets. But I definitely prefer the latin name cuz some flowers have the same name as other flowers. Like I recently just found out there was the Bird of Paradise and another called "Red" Bird of Paradise. I'd be pretty upset if I wanted BOP and got "Red" BOP instead.
I also label with my DG name or the DG name of the person I got it from (if known). I usually don't put other info like height or color unless the plant can come in various heights and colors. Cuz I figure that regular info can be found here on DG and also I usually want to double check the info on the package anyways. I mean, one's person's pink can be another person's lavendar. Like one of the seed packs I was trading recently, I always thought that the flower color was pink but I was told it's more of a lavendar and here on DG, it's labelled as purple colored flowers. So, some things I prefer to leave unlabelled. And my exception to that is if it comes in different colors or such...
I don't want to make it so complex that it would be more work than fun to trade seeds though.. Might want to make a balance on how much info is necessary.. Should have some manditory info and some optional info..
Ya know what? I think you only need the Latin name, a common name (if there is one) and the height and color. added: and DG User name. Pretty funny from someone who puts everything, including sowing instructions on the envie, isn't it?
It is my opinion that people should be encouraged to get their bee-hinds to the PF and look up things they aren't familiar with so they can learn about the plants in more detail and see any pitfalls in growing the plants. Any invasiveness, etc. I don't think spoon feedling people helps them learn better, but maybe that's just the midwestern mentality.
I wish PF differentiated between Birds, butterflies and bees, instead of lumping them all together, but maybe someday....
What is an annual up here can be a perennial farther south, so why bother? We don't mark things for southerners as "winter annuals" and "summer annuals" and that would probably be more helpful to them than A or P.
My 2c,
Suzy
This message was edited Jan 2, 2008 4:06 PM
I agree with Suzy, I think Latin name and your DG name is manditory. The common name is helpful as well as color and height but depending on perception, color can change and height can be affected by other factors. So what grows for my to a certain height might not for another person. Like my noid asiatic lilies hybrids never got taller than two feet. I was told that's cuz it's young and aother told me that's cuz the nursery sent me bad noids.. So, I think that color and height can even change.. I personally check up the stuff I get anyways so, I don't need all that info on there.. I have to admit, it does take a bit of time when we do those robins that need to be mailed out to the next person.. But I do it cuz I want to make sure that I get seeds that I actually want..
These are the things we have to hash out and get it in a sticky. I always look everything up, but that's just me.
It should have common name on it, people know them more. If they want to know what kind thats where the latin name helps. A generic color is good unless the plant has a name. I always go to PF and find out about the sun and write it on all my packs, that way if I'm outside planting I can just look at it without having to go to puter and check it out.
That's another reason I put the approx. ht on them, so I know if I want them in front or the middle or the back.
Generic packs are what we are trying to keep from happening. It's going to take a long while to get things done differently and those packs are probably going to be around for a while yet.. We understand about passing them along so don't worry if you have. Let's all just strive to do a little better in the future.
Robin, I made you some home made veggie soup for that cold you have coming on!
Thank you Tammy, I need it. I feel like a beat up old tether ball. yuk!
Wish I was closer to give it to ya for real! It has hamburger in it, which is how I always make mine, and MMMMMMMMMMMM good!
I like it that way to. Lots and lots of veges.
Well I hope you got some chicken noodle soup to help ya through it, too!
making some now. As i run back and forth to the stove and the puter. It's wearing me out and will have to stop here soon. So I may just take the night off and see ya tomorrow. Maybe more will post and give suggestions.
Ok guys, I've come up with a draft outline, please let me know if have missed anything critical.
Seed Saving Etiquette-DRAFT OUTLINE
A. Do include the following either printed out or written legibly large enough to be easily read:
Your DG name:
Flower type and is it annual,biannual, perennial, bulb:
Latin Name (if possible)"
Common Name:
Color:
Zone: grown in
Ht:
Light:
Germination:
How to start: i.e. scarification, stratification, after frost transplant, no transplant, direct seed
Year harvested:
B. Mailing materials and definition of terms:
SASE-self addressed stamped envelope, preferably a type with bubble wrap inside
Seed envelopes: Michaels or other craft stores sell ziploc type bags for seeds or
See this site on DG for printable seed packets http://davesgarden.com/files/seedpackets/
Do print out or write out seed labels legibly and easy to read
C. Establish how many seeds you are trading for. If the person you are trading with has a limited number
you can adjust your trade accordingly.
Good job. You are my hero.
Feel better Robin!♥
Dunno.. I think the following should be mandatory since there's know way to know this information unless it's written by the sender
Your DG name
Latin Name (or NOID with common name if not know)
Color (if more than one color is known to exist)
Ht (if more than one height is known to exist)
Year harvested:
The other informtion is nice to know by not necessary since it's all available. While it's good to label for the convenience for another person, if there's a lot of seeds going out, this will become quite tedious. So, I think these info should be optional since it's also available on DG here.
Flower type and is it annual,biannual, perennial, bulb:
Zone: grown in
Light:
Germination:
How to start: i.e. scarification, stratification, after frost transplant, no transplant, direct seed
If people want to add extra info, that should be optional not required.. Like, I wouldn't care if people put that info on the packet for me cuz I alway check myself and relabel. If necessary, I've also contacted the sender when I can't find specific info on DG here. But they don't need to write it down for me.. Just not necessary. I can do that myself. In fact, I prefer to do it myself too..
The things about the year harvested is that it is not standard. Seed houses who got seed from the 2007 harvest would label them as 2008 seeds, wouldn't they? LOL! I'm going to start doing that with mine for next year :))
Suzy
This isn't a mandatory thing we are trying to do. It is just a suggestion for people so we don't get noid packages. You don't have to put the all that info in the packages. We aren't saying if you don't put this on it we won't except your trade. We are just trying to get a general Etiquette going.
For instance Red Cardinal vine. Right there I know it's a vine and will probably get about 6-8 ft. at least and hey it's red.
Sometimes there is no known color or height, just put down growing is unknown. People can go do the google on them, I'm not saying to write a book about them just a little consideration to your traders, some facts should be written down. Like I said it makes it easier for everyone. I'm already looking up the latin name in plant files all I have to do is scroll down the page and add a few other pieces of info.
Here is what I do on a small label
Hesperaloe Parviflora z. 5a
Red Yucca 36-48" w/s
Full sun unknown germ.
Robynznest 2007
I got that all off the plant files and when I take my little packet outside to plant I have it all right there and will know about where I'm going to plant it. It also only took me 2 minutes to write everything down at the most and that was with looking at the pictures too.
This message was edited Jan 2, 2008 6:49 PM
I know what you're saying but I'm saying somethings should be mandatory. I recently got a seed trade that was not labelled at all. Some water got into the mailbox (the mailman never closes the mailbox) and the mailing address was completely washed out. So some things should be mandatory. The other things, yes, is nice to have but not mandatory. I think somethings should always be included. As for me, I always put down latin name, common name, harvest year and my DG name. Some times color and height but not always. I just want the basics. Half the time, I get a common name, that if you check up, applies to 3-4 different plants and no info on who it's from.. I just want the basics.. I think we should concentrate on the basics before we think of optional nice and convenient stuff..
I understand what you're saying icosden, but at this point I'm primarily writing this geared toward the newbies. I happen to be one myself and I can tell you this can very confusing for the beginners. If we set up good guidelines they can follow they will at least have a good base. And I can certainly mention problems like water damage, packaging the seeds when their dry, etc. Things I think those of you that are more experienced just take for granted. I would be very uncomfortable setting mandatory standards for anybody. Might not be a bad idea of clearly stating your requirements when you make your trade. That should help both sides of the trade.
Your comments on some of the problems and details like that are very helpful. That's the sort of thing I want to add to the body of the text. We both evidently have mailmen with shutting the dam box ISSUES and it makes me nutso!