ATTENTION FELLOW ZONE STRETCHERS!!!!

I was weak and decided not to chance anything outside this year. I eventually definitely want to try and keep a Ti in the ground (that long tap root could survive a nuclear explosion I think), and perhaps even a monstera (that's well established with roots).

Maybe next year I'll be more bold and give it a shot. That bad first frost we had nuked everything (worst first frost I've ever seen).

You'd probably get by with planting ti plants where you are. Last year I tried some red sister and they did come back. They didn't ever get more than a few inches high by the end of the summer, I just left them out again. So, they survived 7b, but I wouldn't call them hardy here

here they survive under large oaks like the one above or other protection/ source of warmth/ shelter with no human intervention

Diehrd: Wish I'd realized that before. I killed one in the house over last winter. Too dry, I think.

Frost in the forecast tonight.

Deb

we are forecasted for 34*. the coldest this year so far i think.... unless wunderground is wrong

Let's hope it is wrong. It is still 64 at 8 p.m. if it drops that far before morning my plants will be in a snit for sure. Just to be on the safe side I did water well this afternoon so everything is hydrated.

Hello y'all. First time to this forum. Right now, I'm trying out 3 costus speciosus (crepe ginger) in the GH. Have 2 in the yard, heavily mulched. No luck with costus Barbatus, no blooms at all with Alpinias!
Not taking chances with Tis, they're in gh too. But I had seen some grown outside Cracker Barrel @ Myrtle Beach.

heavenscape, down here on the coast in tourist country, they are used as annuals to fool the tourists into thinking we are tropical! lol
ardesia, i don't think you need to worry... you're the warmest out of all of us here.... unless one of us moves to HHI or the like. right now we are at 52.2*F at 9:43

Ah ha! Was telling DH it's incredulous to see Tis out in this area, Diehrd! Of course MB could afford to grow them as annuals! Duhhh...if this is truly a tropical area, then the local Lowe's and HD would offer them too.

Now I'll definitely have to try one under a sheltered location.

Calling for 31 here tonight. Guess I better go turn the heater on in the garage. I'm having a heck of a time regulating temp in there, and keeping the humidity down.

heavenscape, don't you just love it when something all of a sudden makes sense, and you suddenly understand everything there is to know?
keonikale, i hope you get everything under ctrl in the garage. bundle up and stay warm, everyone

4:30 a.m. and it is 46 degrees. The weatherperson fails again (thankfully).

Amen!

I really do think you folks in zone 8 can grow ti's outside and I'm dying to hear how big they get when y'all do..lol. I left several more outside (they're so easy from cuttings) this year...so you never know.

keonikale, I'm having the same problem in my GH. I have a tendency to overwater (I am trying so hard not to) and on cold nights I'm not able to keep it at 60 sometimes. I know I can't afford another heater in there, so I'm thinking of insulating one of the sides. I was able to overwinter a pile of tropicals in my basement last year (which doesn't get quite freezing most nights, but still cold). Everything (xanthosomas, bananas, etc) survived with just barely watering every week or two. The advice I need to take for muself is to ease up on the water and the low temps won't matter as much :)

heavenscape, costus speciosus is supposed to be hardy here, but as far as I know (according to PDN) is the only costus that would be hardy to zone 7b (in 8a you might be able to do more). I plan to try spicatus next year, but so many of my gingers, I think I just have to accept I won't see bloom, especialy being on the more west side of 7b. I only got one white butterfly bloom this year before the frost knocked out the buds on all my other gingers. So I'm looking into early-blooming hedychiums. None of my alpinias bloomed, and since they bloom on old growth, I may never see them....lol

Tropicanna, maybe it's in my head, but I always thought the watering helped maintain warmth? I tend to notice it feels warmer in the garage after I mist or water, but it may just be the humidity. Speaking of which, is it really that bad for my drywall so long as it's not actually getting wet? I mean the air is really moist at times, and a lot of moisture condenses on the large metal garage door, but the walls seem very dry, and if I run my finger down them I still get drywall dust on it. I find it hard to believe they'd start growing any kind of mold. If they were actually getting wet, or had condensation pooling on them somewhere, maybe. Anyone know more about this or have thoughts?

I'm sure part of the heat "problem" is also over exaggerated too. When you go from a warm house room into a colder one, well... it makes you think it's too cold. I'm sure if I walked directly from outside into the garage it'd feel A LOT warmer. I may try some insulation like you mentioned too though.

ardesia, you folks do stay a lot warmer than us, wow. Columbia's airport says 37 for last night, but when I woke up this morning at 6:50 it said 31 outside at our house in Lexington, and our fountain was frozen again. I swear the lake is doing something weird with our weather. It seems especially cold in our little part of L-town. My folks just on the other side, in Irmo, usually report 3-5 degrees warmer than us. Very strange.

Anyone care to explain where the word "Kakalakian" comes from?
A transplant here .

We often talk about moving someplace where there aren't so many restrictions but I am afraid to leave my little sweet spot here. If we did move I would really need a place where I could have a GH. We are having some trees removed today, I hope it does not change the environment and let that nasty frost in on cold nights.

John, think about the poor folks up in Cedar Creek, it is really much colder in that tiny spot. About your walls, if you are concerned about mold you can always spray them with a fungicide like Consan to prevent any problems.

I don't think watering keeps things warmer but it does keep the plant hydrated so it is better able to withstand the cold.

no frost here this morning phew

Thanks Alice, I'll try spraying that if anything "strange" starts to appear.

No frost here this morning either, though it was 32 exactly on my back porch at 630AM.
Overnight low for S-ville tonight is 31 and 'widespread" frost. We'll see.
Deb

its supposed to start warming up here

keonikale, I am going to have to disagree based on my limited experience that keeping your plants well watered is a good idea over winter. As soon as the GH temps fall below 60, I start getting mold (maybe it's cause I have spores meandering around in there?) , but the plants I manage to water scarely (or are intentionally crowded) never get any mold. You are lucky if you aren't having problems yet, but basically plants can't really take in the water you give them at lower temps (there's lots of info on this in the GH forum). If you think about it, it's easier to neglect things than to care for them, so if you water sparingly, you're not going to hurt the plants as the growth you'll be getting this time of year would be minimal unless you can maintain temps of 70 or above. Nothing wrong with high humidity, but the roots are better to stay on the dri-ish side. Hopefully someone smarter than me pipes in about this, I'm using baking soda spray to combat mold in the GH now, having a heck of a time because I can't help but water when things look dry in there, and at night I'm lucky to keep temps near 60 (but often more like 50). As far as the dri-wall, keep an eye out for warping, too...you might be fine as long as you aren't spraying the walls. hopefully that helps without sounding like I know everything :)

I agree with tiger lily. When I said well hydrated I really meant appropriately hydrated. You would never want something so moist that the roots did not get enough oxygen or that caused mold to grow. On the flip side if the soil dries out too much the roots dessicate and the plant is weakened. There is a happy medium.

50's at night doesn't sound too bad at all. On the bright side it will keep the growth in check so you can fit more plants inside. LOL

Tropicanna, keonikale plants are in his garage which is quite a different environment from a greenhouse. Keonikale has a hard time keeping humidity at a constant level because as he mentioned the drywall, wood and other stuff will absorb the moisture quicker. In my greenhouse I get drastic highs and lows .. I just ran out side to open some of my vents because it was over 100 degrees in there with 60% humidity. The low inside the gh last night was 41 with 36% humidity.

The thing with keeping plants well hydrated pretty much is for plants that are not protected from freezing .. If you have plants that are lacking for water the cell structure is weaker and low humidity will take out what little moisture it has making it prone to tissue freezing. Well hydrated plants have a stronger cell structure and it takes temps below freezing a lot longer to damage the plant.

X

It's been an interesting trial-and-run experiment. The GH's do seem a lot different, so I agree with X on that. It would fluctuate from almost 35 at night (which was horrible) to over 110 during the day when the sun was right on it. That's why I gave up... that was a lot of stress on the plants in there I think.

I might have mistyped, but I actually meant water vapor in the air would keep things warmer. I learned back when my thumb was greening not to over water in winter. I must have lost some of my favorite first plants that way. I now typically turn the hose on mist in the garage and just let it sprinkle the leaves more than anything (keeps spider mites away too).

I just can't figure out if it's actually warmer after I mist of it's its an 'illusion' with relative humidity levels. Thermometers can't tell the difference either, I do remember that from my climate classes... I'd need a dry thermometer (I think that's what it's called). In any event, it does feel warmer.

I do tend to have more fungal (mushroom) grown in the winter, inside or out - and I agree definitely the plants drink A LOT less. At least some anyway. I have a few plants that still seem to dry out quicker than others. I've also been amazed how the temperature can vary between my garage door and the door to the house at the back of the garage. It can literally be a few degrees different while it's only 18' or so. Humidity levels also seem to change between the two spots, which I find odd. I notice the most heat in the middle of the room where the halide's are, though when the heater is on it's harder to notice. I was out there last night and noticed just how warm the halide got on my neck after a while. So they produce more heat for the garage than I thought... but they also keep the humidity higher I think.

I love my indoor arboretum, but I'll be much happier when I can get everything back outside or in a more suitable greenhouse. The portable ones were useless in terms of tropical plants.

High humidity is fine, it sounds like you've got quite an operation in your basement, I'm not sure how much you've invested so far, but my GH wasn't too bad. now I haven't factored in the heat yet cause I just started.....

It got up to 120 in my GH today. Forgot to open it up this morning before I left for work! Needless to say, I had to do a bit of watering - poor plants. This time of year is so difficult in that regard. Close it up at night, open it up in the morning - sigh. I want a hi-tech GH with automatic vents that open at a certain temp. I bet there is such a thing (I just can't afford it probably!) LOL.
Deb

I think that's what killed Brian's plants last winter Deb, I'd be hesitant of those automatic things. I might be wrong, but I know something got messed up with his GH last year, somehow cold air got in and killed everything. I can't even imagine.

Tropicanna, most of the investment right now is lights (and the power bill, LOL). My biggest hurdle would be convincing the neighborhood to actually let me build a GH the size I need. We fenced in our yard, but the neighborhood is so new I'm concerned they might not allow me to build something that large and that tall (bc it would be visible from the road). Stupid I know, but perhaps once the Review Board is controlled by our actual neighborhood (and not some third party folks who seem paranoid about things, I guess since half the neighborhood is still going to be for sale).

I kinda like being able to go out in the garage and stroll about in my jungle. I hope to have my first BOP bloom in a few days... it's getting very close, and my wife and I are excited. Never had one bloom before, ever.

I had another thread on the whole Garage/Greenhouse debate (or both once upon a time thing). Photos all the way at the bottom of my current set up. I actually had to remove my larger GH (seen at the top of that thread) bc it took up too much space, and I needed height for the 9' palms.
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/785244/

The things we do for our plants :)

Keonikale: Yeah, the hi-tech GH is a pipe dream for me anyway. Even if I could afford one, I have a similar problem as you in that I wouldn't be able to put one in my yard. We have to get permission for anything like that and it'd stand out, I think. The one I have is really just shelves with plastic tucked up next to the garage.

Anyway - Please post your BOP when it blooms. I have mine under light in the garage, hoping for a bloom, but I have a feeling it won't. My lights are pretty wimpy. :)
Deb

Gosh, I wish my garage looked like that.

I have a couple of BOP's outside this year planted in the ground. I'm not sure what will happen there but I'll know by the spring. Close to the house with SE exposure and protected by the house and porch from the North wind. West too.

Will definitely post some pics of the BOP.

On the note of GH's again. Do the really high temps hurt the plants in any way, or just make them dry out faster and wilt?

Did some infestation treating tonight... aphids seem to be the pest of choice this winter. They especially like my bananas.

Core, that reminds me. Ever since I saw that White BOP growing in the Beaufort area, now I'm wondering if I could get one to grow sheltered here. Good luck with your orange birds. I think mine is going to bloom for no other reason than I left it out in full sun this summer and watered it almost daily. It looked horrible leaf wise, but I've got two definite blooms and I think two more are coming (and if those bloom, I'll be shocked since they did so under the halides and no true sun).

I wish I knew exactly how close these lights are to true sunlight. Different plants are reacting in different ways, and they've been in there a month. The lower light plants seem to be in heaven, but some of my Dwarf Banana's, Palms, White BOP's, etc have slowed their growth a lot. Now my biggest concern will be not burning them in the sun next spring when they go back out. (I accidentally scorched a few of my large Ti's this past spring). Live and learn.

This message was edited Dec 5, 2007 9:23 PM

core, for my BOPs outside, i'm putting lights on them and/or a blanket on nights below 27 because i don't really want huge brown leaves or a scrawny plant in the spring. same for the poinsettia on nights below 25

I've found that my gh can up to 115 degree's without plant damage as long as the humidity is high. Most of my plants love it .. a few kind of wilt under the heat but perk right up when I open the vents .. thank goodness for my gh temp/humidity alarm!

X

keonikale, first off, sorry to hear about your neighborhood rules...but that's another rant, it looks like you've spent quite a bit protecting your plants (very interesting setup). In terms of humidity with the driwall, If you were up to it this time of year you could always prime the walls with Kilz or something similar...it would be quite a project with your plants in there...lol.

Scary thought but I was in my GH and tried to estimate the worth of what's in there so I can justify the heat bill when it comes in...lol

As far as the natural vs. real sunlight, really my Ti plants looked terrible too when I put them out last year and scorched them, same with the shell ginger but they both recovered well and those were the main two I had problems with. I guess I should have started with everything in the shade and gradually given them more sun. As long as your plants make it thru winter, they should be alright in spring. I have plants in my garage, too, which doesn't really seem to freeze, with very little light or water or attention, and they've been fine

definitely agree with X on the high temps, I only see real damage when it gets cold

thanks for showing us your setup

Finally have time to add my 2 cents to this thread.
I'm growing a couple of plants that shouldn't be hardy here:
Queen Palm - I have 2 in the ground and last year I mulched them 3' high with pinestraw. I'm going to do the same thing this year.
Tropical Hibiscus: I had one in the ground last year against the South side of the house. Mulched it some, but not as much as the palm. With the drought this year and the fact that it only gets half a day of sun, it didn't bloom this year. Did get 5' tall and thick.
Datura: I had a triple yellow datura come back and get 8' tall. I barely mulched this one at all. I kinda hoped that it wouldn't come back. It got HUGE last year.
Ones I'm trying new this winter:
Ravenea rivularis (Majesty Palm): I have this in a pot and it's about 6.5' tall. When it gets cold consistently, I'll put it up against the South side of the house.
Hibiscsu schizopetalus (Chinese Lantern): It's against the East side of the house and I WILL be mulching this.
I'm also trying 3 more tropical hibiscus against the East side of the house.
I attached a pic of the Queen Palm that's against the East side of the house. It was taken a year ago this month. Now it's a good 3-4' taller. Love it!
Barb

You should have good luck with all of those for the most part if your really in 9a. The queen palms will be fine but your probably going to get some brown frowns. Hibiscus should be fine just prune any dead parts in the spring.

Not sure about a Majesty Palm.

i saw some on hilton head that looked pretty nice... there are also some at Marley's on the island too

You folks on the coast make me jealous. We'll hit the low 20's tonight... brrr.

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/796878/
as you can see from the link, we aint doin so hot (no pun intended) here either
PS i'll be in Lexington this week (hooray!) so i guess i'll see the devastation