What would YOU have done?

I had something happen at work a couple of months ago that has been weighing on my mind since then. I know I did the right thing in my position, but I was curious to know what some of you would have done in the same situation. Not as a person in my position but as a bystander. Here goes...

I work in retail loss prevention. (Security) I'm the one you see chasing the bad guys (and oh so many girls) as they leave the store with unpaid for merchandise. One night as I was working, I got a call about a very young boy who appeared to be without a parent. When I went to the area, I found a young boy about 10 years old inside the store and his two brothers, who were younger than he, outside. I won't go into the details of what happened concerning how we got the parents and the boys together again. But I will tell you what happened next.

I need to say first that the parents of the three boys had been looking for them for approximately 1 hour. For anyone who has ever lost a child for any amount of time knows how frightening this can be. The father was almost in tears when he saw his boys and was physically shaking. As he was hugging his children, he asked where they had been. He was none to shy about using the *F* word but you could tell it was because he was scared for his boys. Some people just react that way under stress. After finding out how the boys became lost, I knew the parents were not fully at fault. People become separated, especially in a crowded mall.

From the sidelines, we hear a man's voice saying, "That's what you get for leaving them alone. It's your fault. You're the parent." Now, this man had been the one to have me called to find the parents. He saw that they were reunited and how shaken the father was. The father turned around (and I should mention the mother had shown up as well) and came head-on toward the other man and began shouting at him that he didn't know anything about it and he had no right. These two were now toe-to-toe and shouting into each others faces.

Now, I am 5'6" and 165lbs. I try to keep fit for my work. However, the father was 6'0" 190lbs. and the other was slightly taller and heavier. Being in the line of work I'm in, I did not hesitate to step between them and push them apart. Or at least, make the attempt. I was partially successful in this, long enough to get the father's attention on me. I told him to go back to his kids, that they needed him more and blah, blah, blah. Anything to get them apart. As I was speaking to him, the other guy is pushing me from behind (which he later denied). Three times he pushed me and I just ignored him. I finally got the father to go back to his boys and hustled the parents outside to their car. This other man just disappeared with his wife somewhere. We later found them.

Here's the part where I ask my question of you. Would you have stepped in to help? There were about a dozen customers watching by the end and, I think, five employees. NOT ONE offered help. I don't usually expect help, especially from the employees, as we have trained them to stay out of the way until asked for. We don't want them hurt. But my goodness...you'd have thought SOMEONE would have stepped in. I have been doing this work for 14 years and I have never had to ask for help in this kind of situation. If a bystander sees us in trouble, or the possibility of it, they ask if we need help. We've on many occasions had them call the police for us.

So, what would you have done? On either side of this confrontation?

I would have called for some back-up. This was a negative situation which had the potential for escalating into something worse.
Many people will not get involved as they do not wish to put themselves at risk. I do think this is understandable.
There are also those who become somewhat "paralyzed" when a situation seems out of control - they feel helpless, and basically are!
Myself, I tend to assess & jump in, hoping to distract the participants. This has worked, but I know it is not the most reliable/safe way to proceed.

How interesting that the very person that called this to your attention, was the same one to be acusatory of the father. Was he bothered by the inconvenience of helping out these kids? Or was his motive to make himself feel superior by publicly deriding the father?
Better for him to have had the grace to step up to the father & tell him how glad he was that everything worked out - what nice kids he had, or something along this line.
That would have made the point without igniting a fuse...

In this day with cell phones, you would think that someone would have called the police to alert them. I can understand why people back away from direct involvement, but personally, I could not live with the decision to turn a blind eye.

I am surprised that some man watching and seeing you pushed three times wouldn't step in, ..., then again if you're in a security uniform...I have never witnessed anything like that so I just don't know. as you said, many times bystanders have offered help I guess this was just an off night.

We don't wear the uniform of a guard. We dress in plain clothes. It was just shocking that a time came where no one offered. Unfortunately, it was not a situation where back-up is usually needed and none was available. I was on duty alone that night.

On reflection, someone might have if it had escalated further. But to stand there and be shoved from behind by this guy and no one says "Hey buddy, maybe that's not what you should be doing." Or something to that effect. No one knew, until after the fact, that I was a store employee. It's amazing to me how people treat one another. And I've seen plenty of bad treatment. And I should also mention that the man who did the shoving, was caught off guard when I told him who I was later. Of course he's not going to admit he did it. But he sure did skedadle after I spoke to him about it! That was the only amusing part about the whole night.

I think you were very brave to step in and probably stopped what could have been a very bad situation. I doesn't seem like there was time for back up.
Nothing in this world is black and white. Sometimes rules do not apply to some situations. I think you did the right thing. I am glad no one got hurt, esp you.
When emotions are high, much can happen.
It is so easy to judge other people, when things like this could easily happen to anyone.
I am glad that the children were found.
Do you feel that the father's bad language in front the the small children maybe sparked the reaction from the man? He may have felt the father was abusive.

Now I am more shocked that someone didn't step in, since it would appear to be an innocent woman between two men.
I think your experienced 'gut' let you continue, despite the possibility of it getting worse.
Good thought, cpartschick.( the language) May have escalated emotions.

Good point. I didn't think of that. The father was quite loud and the boys were crying. But I still think the other guy was way out of line and I know you'll agree with me on that. My years have told me that if you jump in and just keep talking, things will quiet down, which they did. That guy pushing ME, still bugs me after all this time.

You were really in control of things. And I applaud you for not reacting to the pushing. They were both out of line and emotional, and you, with your clear head, took a chance and saved the day.

Thanks. Nobody knows this at work but when it was all over, I went back to my office and cried. I don't usually do that but this time, emotions just had to have an outlet.

It is ok. It is hard to be tough all the time.
I had been through a situation at work once that did the same to me. I was doing a job usually held by a man. So you have to be tough and professional all the time. After one rough week, and after dealing with a rude customer in what I thought was a professional manner, he said a rude come-on remark to me. I told him I thought the remark was unwarnented, calmly went into the break room and cried my eyes out. It just gets to you sometimes.
Luckily, people have been better in the past few years. But there is always a bad egg around somewhere.

Sorry that happened to you. I will never understand why people have to be rude. Rudeness and stupidity are the only things I cannot and will not stand for. DH thinks I'm going to get decked one day pointing out rudeness. Especially in children that the parents let happen.

I agree.
I have to tell you a little story. When DD was in college, she had a job at a dept store in the juniors clothing. She told me about a woman, who came in with her 14 yr old daughter to buy clothes. The girl was very rude to her mother and her mother was buying her everything she wanted. After they paid, the mother wanted to go somewhere before going home. The girl huffed about wanting to go straight home.
DD, could not stand it any longer and told the girl that she should respect her mother, and be grateful that the mother had bought her such nice things.
I was so proud of my daughter for speaking up, and the attitude she had. I think that is when I finally new she was a grown-up. She said that she just thought the young girl may listen to someone closer to her age.
I think sometimes we can make a difference in the world, if we do it in a smart, calm and not threating way, like you did.

You DD was VERY smart. Kids do listen regardless of what todays society thinks. It bothers me a lot when I see parents let their children run over their parents and it's just like...oh, well, they're just kids.

While there is no excuse for getting physical, I think you should cut both of them some slack. It sounds like both the bystander and the father thought for more than an hour that they were in the middle of potentially tragic situation, and both were wound up, and trying to do the right thing by the time this confrontation happened.

Given the number of kids involved, the bystander may have taken it for an intentional situation on the part of the parents. My guess would be that once the situation had cooled down, the dad would be willing to take a punch rather than face what was running through his mind 30 minutes earlier when he was searching for his kids.

There are stories on the news every week where you wonder why some stranger, or teacher, or neighbor, didn't step-up or make a phone call to save a child from danger within their own family. There was one on the news within the last couple of months where two family members were beating a kid in a store, and people pulled out phones to film it, but nobody (including staff who were called to the scene by other customers) stopped it from happening.

Don't sweat it.

This message was edited Nov 16, 2007 4:55 PM

I am sorry this sort of thing happens full stop.It shouldn't ...I hope the hero that pushed you went home and felt some shame after cooling off.I have stepped between a gang threatening an old man while security people did not lift a finger ...I was so angry at the time that it was only afterwards I realized that I could have been attacked and I wondered wether anyone would have helped.I am 5ft three and about 130lbs, this gang of teens had been harassing young women and elderly people for at least half an hour without anyone doing anything,I wish you had been one of the security guards that day . :)

While I do understand that emotions run high where children are concerned, the man who had me called only thought they were alone for a short time. Maybe ten minutes. It was just the thought that people would let it get that far without stepping in. His wife told me when it was over and I tracked them down that her husband is a very nice man. And I'm sure he is or he would not have told someone about he kids.

Or perhaps, they thought I was handling it okay and did not want to inturrupt for fear of making it worse? I think I'n grasping now but you get what I mean.

You see on the news and read about people everyday who'd lost someone dear to them. It's not something to be taken lightly.

Oh, that wasn't clear. But in the end, the kids made it out okay. Beats the alternative.

You are absolutely correct. It could have been much worse.

And my appologies. I should have been more specific with that part.

I think you must be very professional and thoughtfull to be able to deal with two grown men, full of testosterone and acting like children. I'm afraid I would have really lost my temper with both of them. Don't worry, I am not a security guard. I did work in retail for many years, though. People are often afraid to get involved. They may not have realized what was going on and thought it was a domestic dispute of some kind. Those are the worst. As a retail person, if I'd been there, I would've called for back up for you.

I was talking to my boss just a moment ago about this and she informed me someone DID call the police that night. I was never told.

And I know about people not wanting to get involved. In this age of litigation, it's hard to know when to step in.

One day at another location, my co-worker and I stopped a guy who was HUGE. Two of us the same build stopping a guy who, if I remember right, measured 6' 8" and told us he ran 310lbs. He picked me up and chucked me like a twig and slammed my co-worker in the head. (She wasn't hurt badly, just dazed). Afeter a minute or two of wrrestling with him, two guys came ove a nd helped us handcuff him. When THAT one was over, we thanked them for their assistance. They both looked very sheepish and told us they actually had to discuss it before stepping in to help. They didn't want get in trouble!

But it's okay. I like my work as a whole. It can be rewarding, scary, boring and completely exhausting while at the same time we see the funniest things.

Wow ... why don't you!
My son is in security ,he said the same thing!
Good luck and stay safe :)

Retail security?

No Armed Guard for Atm's and training

No way could I do that! I'm glad there are people who do it but I couldn't.

Wow, it is scarey and I think that is why people won't get involved. But I think some people take advantage of that and get away with crap they should not do.
People need to at least make a call to the authorities. If they can yell, or step in, that is great too.
I guess my theroy is that life is short and I would rather go out doing something good than getting hit by a bus or something. (sounds good, but I am such a wuss) I have very slow reactions in an emergancy. I think it takes my brain a minute to react to something so un-normal.
Plus, I live out here in the sticks and the biggest threat is a bear or a cougar or something. So I can sit here and talk big. LOL

Don't get me started on cougars! I had an experience with one once! LOL

And I understand about the brain freeze. It's the training that helps tremendously with that. If you know what to do, you can jump in faster and safely.

cp - what you call "slow reactions" might be better categorized as "survival instinct"!

Reacting too quickly has resulted in several very unpleasant confrontations for me, but each time, I was bound & determined to put an end to the unfolding situations, or at least try to keep them from escalating.
Successful? yes, but not at all comfortable. I just can't stand by quietly while a person is being subjected to someone elses lunacy: the "Mom" factor takes over.
Very interesting how if you loudly command "ENOUGH!", people respond.

I've noticed over the years that some folks have adopted this "entitlement" mentality - as if the rest of us owe them something. Demanding, selfish & lacking the ability to empathize. Pathetic...

You know, this whole thing makes me wonder about the "hero's" past. That may sound stupid, but something had to happen to him to make him have the reaction that he did....especially if he thought the kids were missing for 10 minutes and his wife swears he's a nice guy. There just seems like there's something deeper going on there.

As for jumping in to help....the attitude you spoke of "Demanding, selfish & lacking the ability to empathize" just infuriates me. Most likely with the size of the guys you were dealing with I would have felt helpless, but would have done something to help. What that would have been, I have no idea, it depends on the situation. If DH was with me I'd have sent him in. If not then maybe I'd have gotten an employee, announced I was calling the police....but something to stop the madness. I don't do well with witnessing those type of situations. But, honestly, if it were two men (no kids involved) I would probably just let an employee know and go about my business. When a woman or children are involved the whole situation changes for me....just how I was raised.

My DH is a big boy, capable of putting a real hurting on someone if he ever wanted to. He knows his size and I've seen him use it to his advantage many times....never having to speak a word or move a finger. It's much the same effect of how you said yelling "ENOUGH!" gets folks attention. He'll just stand up to someone, straightening his spine and putting his shoulders back....and they just melt. It's actually very funny to watch. However, he doesn't always feel as adamant about things as I do, LOL!

I've worked in retail stores where security wore plain clothes. As "regular" employees we weren't allowed to talk to security when they were on the floor because of fear that we would give away the element of surprise. If I had ever seen our woman security officer, or man for that matter, in a struggle or bad situation I would have done something even though I had been told not to.

You handled things very well. What I think a lot of folks fail to realize is that if you make yourself appear confident everyone believes it, even if you're shaking inside. I'm sure you've learned that by now!

heathr - my dh is tall & can assume a very imposing "look" when someone is out of line & needs to calm down. Like yours,he does not need to say anything to get the message across.
You mentioned something very important - regarding how you were raised. I think this is an important element that is deficient in many people these days.
As far as the hero was concerned, my guess is that a combination of emotions got the best of him, and he spoke without considering the possible consequences. We'll never know what his motive was, and i should not have been so hasty in castigating him.

Kwanjin, thanks for sharing your experiences. It is my sincere hope that this discussion has provided a reason for serious reflection on how we treat others, and the power of the spoken word, whether positive or negative.

It HAS helped. It's reinforced by positive attitude towards to human race in general. This was just a one-time thing that threw me for awhile. I wish I could share more of the good things that happen and I probably will as they happen all the time.

Such as...a little 3-year-old girl was lost in our store. No shoes, no coat and no English. An employees saw her walk past him, scooped her up and called for a Code Adam. (Everyone should know what that is by now.) She was crying and frightened. He kept her occupied by playing with her and showing her different shoes (his dept) and making the mdance. ALL the employees in the store stopped what they were doing and helped look for the parents.They were found in the mall because we called their security in case they were looking. Just a small thing but it kept her from being MORE scared until the parents could arrive. She got separated because when they took their six kids out of the car at the curb, she took off and ran inside immediately lost in the crowd. (Xmas)

Kids get locked in cars too. Too many. Another pet peeve.

So...yes, this discussion has helped a lot. I think it's called perspective.

Please don't think I was making excuses for the "hero's" behavior. I was just making a point. Something I've noticed in different situations. Usually when someone flips out that badly it's because there's way more going on than it looks like on the surface....something has touched a very sensitive nerve. Everyone has seen this happen to someone or experienced it themselves. But, then again, sometimes people are just jerks, lol!! :-P

I remember when I was a kid I was shopping with my Mom for Thanksgiving (how appropriate right now, huh?). This was long before Code Adams. A little boy was lost in the store, everyone was looking for him. Everyone was frantic because they absolutely could not find him anywhere. It was getting to the point where it was feared he was taken or that he had wandered outside the store. They called over the intercom and asked customers to start help looking for him....saying what he was wearing, etc. We quit shopping and started looking. The boy's Mom was in the front of the store going hysterical. My Mom and I happened to be in the laundry detergent aisle when a little old lady found the boy on accident. She moved one of those super huge boxes of detergent and let out a "whooop!" as the little boy popped out from behind it to scare her. For goodness sakes. He was playing hide 'n seek....and the entire store was freaking out trying to find the little snot. He wasn't scared, he was having fun. I must have only been about six years old when this happened, but I'll never forget that old lady's "whoop!"....or how the little boy's Mom reacted when she got her son back. I can still picture her grabbing him and heading out of the store because she was still so upset.

....and who hasn't lost their kid(s) at a store? Who doesn't remember getting separated from their parents at a store? I don't have kids but I've shopped with enough of them to know how confusing it gets.


Okay, one last thing I've just GOT to share with all of you, since Kwan mentioned about the employee playing with shoes and making them dance for the little girl to keep her happy (God bless him!). At this time of year when I worked in retail and I'd see kids (little kids) giving their parents a hard time I had something I loved to do and it always quieted the kids down, without fail! I'd see them fussing, crying, screaming....doing their crazy little thing....I'd smile at the Mom or Dad then ask the little one what was wrong. Usually they would just look at me and say nothing....and keep fussing at their parents. Then I'd tell them I had just seen some of Santa's elves hanging around in the store taking notes on who was being naughty and who was being nice. Sometimes they'd look worried, sometimes they'd look surprised, sometimes they'd get so excited and ask where I saw them....but they always quit fussing. The parents usually had a hard time not laughing. It was so fun to do that....and it's one of the very few things I miss about working in retail! Too bad you can't do that to the adults, Kwan.

The company you work for is lucky to have a brave fellow who thinks fast on his feet and is willing to risk his own safety to resolve a situation that could've led to an all out brawl. You can't count on help from bystanders or fellow employees any more than you can count on two lummoxes to act appropriately and contain their unnecessary inflammatory comments.

pr

To answer your question, yes I would have gotten involved if I believed my involvement would have not escalated the situation. Since you were taking care of the father I probably would have tried to distract the other individual. This is actually usually pretty easy to do if you use a sympathetic/reasoning tone of voice (even if what you really want to do is smack them upside the head and tell them to behave themselves). If you act self assured but not aggressive many people will calm down and go on their way. I am not a remarkable looking person, just a middle aged average looking woman so I cetainly would not look physically threatening which in an odd way is hepful in a situation like that. So glad things turned out well and you are to be applauded for your actions.

Tazer them both and go find the kids!

Right on, Wrenwood! LOL What I wanted to do to the jer...s'cuse me...gentleman behind was was deck him. NOT professional. But it would have been funny. The parents always get the brunt of peoples anger when a kid gets lost. You hear...Where was the mother? The mom, in this case, was in a store in the mall. The father was sitting on a bench outside the store WITH the boys. He told them to stay there at "this door" while I check on your mom. The oldest boy heard "The Store"..and took it to mean where they came in. Our store. So, he took his brothers to "The Store" where dad said to wait. When dad came out...no boys. So, I never make judgements. I just react to what's happening at the time and sort it out later.

I appreciate everyones comments on this and it's helped ME sort it out. lol I think, now though, it's justing beating it into the ground so I'm going to stop obsessing about it and get on with other things. I don't usually get this way about something that's happened at work.

And Heather, I just might try that when I'm walking the floor! Little ones do need a reminder that someone is watching their actions and taking note regardless who it is.

Heather......I work retail and love your strategy with unruly kids! I expect it to be put to the test very soon.

What I've done with the little stinkers is not as clever. Sometimes, just saying hello to them will shock them into silence. They are usually obnoxious because the adult is paying them enough attention, so I also try to find a little something to make them feel special like, 'Are those new shoes? Very nice.' or 'I just love your nail polish.' Distract the child so that the parents can shop. You can't make a sale if all the adults want to do is take their whinie kids home.

Best wishes to all of you retail workers out there as we slide into the Holiday Shopping Season. May nasty kids and adults be few, and the sales be high.

Wish I had been there. The first time I saw him shove you, I would have hit him over the head with my umbrella without even asking what it was about!

Yeah, Posy! Give 'em hell! LOL

Marie, thank you and good luck to YOU. I can go into a dark room and hide if I want to! LOL I don't have to out there every day but sounds like you do. You don't do a job I could do and I'm glad there are people who can. I'll try not to kill anyone,even if it's only in my head!

Just for fun...a few days ago, there were two 'ladies' fighting over a sweater. They both wanted the same size and almost came to blows over it. What the heck?

It's not even TG, folks! Calm down!!!

Ok, I know you said to let this die down now.......but, having had more time to think about what I would have done.....

I would have walked up to the guy pushing you and said, "Hey, leave my friend Kwan alone or you're going to regret it very badly. We have friends with umbrellas, chipper/shredders and compost piles. You better rethink this mister!" and if he didn't listen he would have become compost in no time flat.

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.