Redding/Lake Shasta Area

Thank you for clarifying rick.

Of course I would expect you to protect yourself and your family first. I thought the fellow that tried to snuggle up to the grizzlies (and was eaten) did the bears a great disservice. I'm happy to hear that you give them space, respect them and leave them alone. We no longer have grizzlies in California, other than the image on our state flag. Our black bears will usually run off if you make enough noise and thrown stones at them and I've run them out of our campsites with that technique on a few occassions. I'd certainly never try that with a grizzly. That's a much different type of bear. There have only been 12 recorded incidents of bears "attacking" humans since 1980. None were fatal and the bears ran off when poked with a tent pole or similar. Most involved campsites with accessible garbage or food stocks too near the camps or persons getting too close to a mother and cubs (taking photos for instance).

My point is simply that killing wildlife should be a last resort rather than in lieu of preventative measures. I've lived in some areas where the most common sentiment was not one of respecting wildlife and altering ones habits to be able to co-exist with them.

The woman who wanted to eradicate all coyotes from the Tahoe basin was completely shocked that the long term locals didn't agree with her sentiments and valued the wildlife alive. She could have saved herself a lot of time and the expense of moving if she'd researched the area a little better.

Actually, it's not correct to think that black bears are easy to live with either. On Sat 11/24/2007, the NYTimes ran a very long, comprehensive article on the difficulties Whistler (the 2008 Winter Olympics site) BC is having with their black bears. The bears are becoming so fearless and accustomed to humans that the city is having increasing difficulties dealing with them.

"Normal" behavior in the wild doesn't necessarily apply to those animals who are successfully urbanizing.

An excerpt from the article:
"All across North America, the black bears are coming back, their populations thriving — and colliding — with humans as never before. This year, conflicts were as rampant as the bears, and the local news from the Catskills to California carried updates on the standoff: bear attacks on the rise in north and south carolina. ... black bears growing nuisance in west. But while images of slashing, 12-inch claws and saliva-soaked fangs stoke our most primordial fears, Ursus americanus — the normally wary, at times even docile black bear — still shows a striking reluctance to attack, even when defending its young. Of the estimated 900,000 black bears in North America, on average only one causes fatal injuries to a person each year. The danger of an encounter between humans and black bears is still borne almost entirely by the bear.

Since 1999, Whistler has tried to manage its conflicts without resort to what is euphemistically called “lethal management” — a uniformed conservation officer firing a shotgun into a thick-furred (and often retreating) flank. Most residents, aware that bears have caused only one reported injury in the town’s history, are tolerant, even proud to live among them, especially their bears: Juniper, Beari, Oscar and the rest. Distraught that the province’s Ministry of Environment destroys up to 1,000 black bears a year, the town has spent millions trying to lock up garbage and to teach citizens how to behave around bears using “bear-to-bear communication” — domination, body posture, direct eye contact.

For three summers, there’s even been a team of biologists in Whistler trying to teach bears how to behave around humans by using slingshots and marbles whenever bears stick their snouts in the trash. Nonetheless, Whistler bears remain so fearless in human society — by mid-November bears had tried to break into people’s homes on about 90 occasions and succeeded on 50, and prompted more than 1,300 calls to the town’s bear-conflict hotline (905-BEAR) — that so far this year conservation officers have destroyed 9 bears; another 6 or 7 have been hit by cars and died as a result.

....Bear managers and park wardens have tried aversive conditioning before: in Banff, for instance, they used to drive up to bears eating roadside vegetation and blast them with water cannons. But as St. Clair points out, that kind of hazing not only violates several principles of animal learning theory (among them, that punishment should be immediate, consistent and not signaled in advance); all it ultimately teaches a bear is that, through a series of our bylaws, the only humans who will hurt it are humans in uniforms arriving in trucks between the hours of 9 and 5. According to St. Clair, hazing also ignores a breakthrough in animal psychology known as the Garcia Principle (after John Garcia’s work with rats in the 1970s), which suggests that, no matter how hard you try, you may never be able to get an animal to associate food with pain. “It makes complete sense,” St. Clair says. “In terms of its survival, a bear has had no evolutionary reason to associate food with danger.”

...“This is speculation, of course, but in the last 50 years, there’s been intense selective pressure on behaviors that allow animals to tolerate and live in close proximity to humans,” St. Clair, the behavioral ecologist, says. “Certainly you see that with cougars, which are famously shy. But that is changing. Maybe bolder bears are selected for as well. It may not all be genetically based behaviors; it could also be learned or cultural transmission, and that spreads much faster than evolution.”

Something seems to have gotten "lost in translation here". I do not wish to hijack this thread and turn it into a debate on the best method of bear management. Alaska and British Columbia have different climates, different terrains, different wildlife management practices from California.

heathrjoy asked about he Redding/Lake Shasta area. She also asked whether it was permissable to shoot coyotes since she is afraid of them.
I posted several links with helpful information on what residents can do to coexist with our wildlife.

Redding and Lake Shasta are located in the State of California, which has a state Department of Fish and Wildlife policy of keeping wildlife wild, and making every possible effort to coexist with them. We have this policy because the majority of California voters want it this way.

Each state has its own wildlife management practices. If someone moves to California from another state, they still need to abide by California state policy. Most people can work within our state guidelines. There can be hefty fines for violating our wildlife policies so it would be prudent for persons relocating here to consider whether they can live with them.

Yes, it is possible to get a depredation permit to shoot a bear, or a lion, or a coyote, in this state, but it won't be easy. The state DFW will expect the residents to clean up their act and eliminate wildlife attractants. Nuisance bears/coyotes/lions are a human created problem. When the humans have acted to eliminate the attractants that cause nuisance wildlife, the problems are greatly minimized and/or eliminated.

Coyote attacks have been on the rise in suburban areas, primarily in Southern California. These can again be traced back to residents failing to harass them and chase them out of their neighborhoods and to some residents feeding the coyotes directly. DFW studies have shown that of all the techniques used in coyote abatement, trapping & relocation has had the greatest observed effect in re-instilling fear of humans into the local population. The risk of attack by a domestic dog is far greater than the risk of attack by a coyote. I checked with the DFW and there have been no reported coyote attacks on humans in Shasta County.

Coyote rollers are an effective way to keep coyotes out of your yard, or your pet dog in your yard. The rollers are installed along the top of the fence and keep the dogs/coyotes from getting the grip they need to jump over them. More info on these here:
http://www.coyoteroller.com/coyote_roller

There have been no bear attacks in Shasta County in 12 years. The following are the incidences that did occur in Shasta and its neighboring counties.

Shasta County, April 1995 – A 13-year-old boy was injured and received eight stitches on his head after being bitten or pawed by a bear in his tent. The boys indicated that they did not have any food in the tent. The bear had also gone through their backpacks (located 25 feet away) and eaten some canned goods and toothpaste. According to the three boys in the tent, they had hung the food from a tree the night before. Attempts to locate the bear were unsuccessful.

Shasta County, May 1993 – A man was injured by a bear while sleeping in a campground near Shasta Lake. He was sleeping on the ground when he stated that he woke up to a bear drooling on him. When he sat up, the bear swatted him on the head and ran. The victim was given three stitches. Garbage was plentiful at his camping location. The victim left the hospital before DFG employees could investigate the incident. There is no further information available.

Siskiyou County, August 1991 – While archery hunting for deer in the Marble Mountain Wilderness, a black bear attacked and mauled an adult male. After the victim observed the bear, he began photographing her until he noticed that she had cubs. The bear charged him and he attempted to escape. She caught him and bit him repeatedly around the shoulders.

Trinity County, May 1986 – A 35-year old man was attacked at around 3 a.m. while camping in a tent in the Trinity Alps Wilderness. The victim felt that he was caught in the middle of a fight between two boars when one bear attacked him in his tent. The bear left when the victim hit the bear with a tentpole. Two bears then returned and acted aggressively toward each another before they finally left. The victim sustained several puncture wounds to his shoulder and lacerations to the back of his head.

Siskiyou County, September 1986 – A long-time resident of a small rural community was injured while feeding a bear at his residence. The victim had been feeding bears at this location for more than 30 years.

The following articles reiterate the state policy that nuisance bears are a human created problem and demonstrate that neighbor hoods can, *and have*, gotten rid of the problems by eliminating the attactancts.

http://www.dfg.ca.gov/ocal/archives/bear_ja02_26-28.pdf
http://www.dfg.ca.gov/ocal/archives/bear_ja02_29-31.pdf


heathrjoy, if you scroll down to the bottom of the page at this City Data site, you will find some crime statistics for Redding that you can compare with your current or other considered areas:
http://www.city-data.com/city/Redding-California.html

Today's news:

Juneau hunter attacked by a grizzly bear
A Juneau hunter was attacked Friday morning by a grizzly bear.

The man identified as Dr. John Raster was brought to Bartlett Regional Hospital shortly after nine Friday morning by a Temsco helicopter.

We're told that he is fine and is undergoing surgery for a bite to his hand.

Dr. Raster was part of a three member deer hunting party located at a cabin on the eastern side of Admiralty Island in Seymour Canal. The cabin is west of Swan Island and north of Windfall Harbor about 28 miles south of Juneau.

They were flown to the area by a float plane.

The party used a satellite phone given to them by Temsco to call for help early this morning.

Dwayne Edwards of Temsco said he was told that Dr. Raster was about 300 feet down the beach from the cabin when the bear came out of the woods and attacked him.

He was out taking photos and only had a pistol with him. He only had time to get off off one shot before he was overcome.

The bear dragged him into the water.

He took a defensive position by laying on his stomach. His hand was bite as he protected his neck. He made his way back to the cabin after the bear left.

We're also told that Dr. Raster, who is an ear, nose and throat specialist, walked to the helicopter and got off under his power when getting to the hospital and reportedly was providing emergency room doctors with a diagnosis of his injuries.

Rick, the only grizzly bears in California are the ones on the state flag. We don't have grizzlies here, we have black bears. Grizzlies have different behaviour patterns and instincts from black bears and are handled differently. Your article, though interesting, is not relevant to wildlife situations in California, and certainly not relevant to the Redding/Lake Shasta area.

not that I am saying it is okay for our wild creatures to attack us, but come lets face it, we go into "their territory" we make homes in their homes, our recent fires I am sure have not helped that. we share a world with them, lets try to remember that.

Perhaps you are not aware of California's plans to reintroduce Grizzlies to 5 areas of California? They have a team in place to do this. I think that they are just waiting for funding. You can Google it if your are interested.

The powers that be have selected 5 areas in Southern California first.

I agree that the story about Dr. Raster's mauling does not directly relate to the Redding area *today*. Indirectly it is important I think. A person owes it to his family and his loved ones to read what is going on around him or her. California will have grizzlies - for better or worse. That is a judgment that will be made by others, long after I am gone.

Even in this peaceful website at Dave's Garden, I get the perception that a human baby life is held in relatively low esteem by some people. That is their value system.

I cannot change people's values very much. Nor do I try. All I can do is protect my family from direct threats as best I can. If I lived in Northern California, I would keep myself armed and vigilant. That does not mean shoot everything that moves. :-) It means to do all the preventive measures you have talked about, but be prepared to shoot if you are forced to save a life.

My best friend in Montana had to kill a grizzly to save his own life. The charging bear dropped at about 8 ft incoming. This was in Montana in an area that *did not* have any grizzlies.

He had to do a lot of talking and fill out a lot of paperwork just to stay out of jail. So shooting a bear out of season is not one's first choice of options.

This message was edited Dec 1, 2007 11:07 PM

Introducing grizzlies is one of then dumbest things I have heard of, people will shoot them on the spot when they see them, justified or not, they can't come up with a better idea than this? I am not saying human life is not worth protecting, I am saying I live in an area where we get some wildlife come throught , common sense is to let them pass through and be aware of what is around you. I will take my chances with the wildlife, over
someone on the loose with a gun. I no more want a mountain lion on my front porch then I do some crazy person.

I will let you guys know what I have done here. In 20 years here in Alaska I have had to shoot 0 ( zero) bears. I have seen many bears in my yard, walked right bears eating berries as my wife and I go out for evening walks, but in my judgment they did not threaten me or my family. Before a new house was built next door to me, a black bear would "live there" all summer. But I never did anything stupid like stopping and staring at them or trying to see how close I could get...a la Yellowstone tourists.....

I did have to shoot two porcupines who were destroying my cherry orchard. That was after calling the humane society, the city police and the state troopers. They all said, "shoot 'em yourself" Even then I tried to live trap them to transplant them and they would not enter the trap. So it was control by Winchester.

I have devised a much better control of the porcupines and bears now. Dog biscuits. Yep, dog biscuits.

I do not have a dog but some of my neighbors do. The dogs roam more or less free. Every time they see me, they come over and beg. With their owner's permission, I give them a dog biscuit and they leave doggy odor in my yard. It may be just luck but ever since they dogs come over routinely the bears and the porcupines don't.

I still have the gun ready. But killing two porcupines in 20 years is not really overkill. Over all of these years I have never left any child in my yard unattended. It exposes them to senseless risk.

An other PS here. When my daughter was in high school she ran cross country. One town near here stationed riflemen every couple hundred yards along the cross country route for the cross country meets.

alaska_rick sounds like you are a reasonable person. I would say after 20 years that is not a lot, why not a dog? that would be a simple solution to a lot of things. Not a surprise about the humane society etc... they all are not "real action" takers unless it does involve killing whatever "nuisance" animal might around. Not that I am saying this about you only to you, I have talked to some of our "higher ups" is you will, and you get the general runaround. Bottom line, it either takes too much energy, manpower, money, effort to actually trap and move an animal back, never mind the fact we forced them out with severe fires etc... well any way stay safe and enjoy our wild lands.
makj

Interesting to watch the evolution of a thread.

makj:

RE: Why not a dog?

I have had three dogs in my life and I loved them dearly. Each was like one of the family. I have privileged to have a pudelpointer, a Germain wirehaired pointer and a black lab. That was when I hunted birds in Montana. I love bird hunting with dogs. Since moving to Alaska here, I have chosen to spend time with my kids and I did what they wanted/needed to do. And now my time is focused on my grandchildren. It is a time issue for me.

I feel very strongly that if you have a hunting dog, you are committing yourself to that dog every day. They need to work and to run every day. That means you need to give a regular daily dose of time. I am not a fan of allowing dogs to roam free for many reasons. They have to be under your personal control. Otherwise there is risk of damage to the dogs and damage to others; and their is the possibility of forming "packs" which can take normal dogs and create a real danger to others.

BTW - my wife was once cornered and trapped for 3 hours by "normal" dogs that ran in a pack one day. We knew the dogs and the owner and we did not shoot them as we could have done. We waited for the owner to control them.

Short answer: time priorities. Kids first for me.

Rick, thank you for clarifying and for being sensible around wildlife so that they will still be around for future generations.