Ron! ... L@@K ... Acapulco Blue Morning Glory is Blooming #2

Part #2 of Acapulco Blue Morning Glory Seeds from Acapulco

Here is the link to go to Part #1
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/669865/

Emma

Here is my fourth bloom from this morning. It will not have time to make seeds.

Picture 2

side view.

Gorgeous color Emma.

Great color Emma...no one else seems to have an Ipomoea indica that has the same type of light blue color as your special strain collected from Acapulco...

TTY,...

Ron

I`m wondering if this is a wild nil I have here?

http://protist.i.hosei.ac.jp/asagao/yoneda_db/E/locality/SA_Colombia_3.html

The sepals bend back on the flowers before they bloom and that is a characteristic of this strain of wild ipomea nil. Check picture( YO25-7) That looks just like what I`m seeing on mine. Just curious.

This is Emma`s sepal picture showing the bending back of the sepals before blooming. My plant has this same characteristic as well. Make sure you check picture YO25-7 which is the 7th picture.

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/fp.php?pid=4116369

The wild nils I grew from Ron's stock didn't exhibit the bending back of the sepals, but I suppose some nils could be different.

Karen, what is the origin of your plant? - Arlan

I can't believe I didn't take any sepal shots of these....I need to check back in all my photos from the summer.

Plenty of blooms but no sepal shots! There were from Iran.

These pictures I shared are plants grown from Acapulco Blue seeds I got from Emma. Karen

Here are some pictures from the Yoneda site of the wild nil from Iran. The sepals bend back on the seed pods.

http://protist.i.hosei.ac.jp/asagao/yoneda_db/E/locality/WA_Iran.html

They are bent back gently, but not at the 90degree radical bend I am seeing in your photo. I'm sure I would have noticed that if Ron's nil Iran had the radical bend to the sepals. I think mine were more like the Yoneda site photos. The darn thing is that if you forget to document something you have to wait until next year to do it!

I figured everyone would know my pictures were Emmas Acapulco Blue. Does it look right? I was very careful to get the seeds from the pack she sent and also labeled the pot the same time I planted the seeds. I grew one other wild white nil and another obvious hederacea. The others things I grew are either JMG or ipomoea purpurea. Karen

Beth - I am very aware that some rare wild Ipomoea nil show a type of curvature to the sepals but the type of curvature is not the same as is seen on Ipomoea hederacea or Ipomoea indica...

The sepal pigmentation(s),width,planar surfaces and type of formation/curvature(s) at different stages in conjunction with secondary bract characteristics are all taken into account...

The photo that you posted here
http://pics.davesgarden.com/pics/ByndeweedBeth_1195602820_407.jpg
lower center >shows sepals on a closed bloom with some gentle outward arched bowing with no relatively sharp angles...

Emma's strain cf.Acapulco is not an I.nil based upon what has been shown as per identifying characteristics so far...

TTY,...

Ron



This message was edited Nov 22, 2007 4:22 PM

I still have some of Emma's Acapulco Blue alive, but it didn't bloom for me. I should have put it in the grow room and given it lots of heat like it was used to. I don't think our cool summer was enough to get it to bloom. It may live until next spring since it never bloomed, and then it's gonna fry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Makes sense, Ron. I wish Emma's had bloomed for comparison purposes.

The sepals on this Acapulco blue plant I grew matches Emmas sepals on the original Acapulco Blue she grew and I posted the link to view it again above. The sepals bend back and then straightens as the flower blooms. I`ll show more pictures later.

This is a trait of this flower Columbia YO25 which is a wild ipomoea nil.

http://protist.i.hosei.ac.jp/asagao/yoneda_db/E/PCD0350/htmls/21.html

Karen

Now this is Emma`s original Acapulco Blue. This is a link to her post and picture. These two show the same bending back of the sepals. This is a observation and one I also see this in the plant I grew from her Acapulco Blue seeds she sent to me.

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/fp.php?pid=4116369

This is a picture of Acapulco Blue sepals. They bend down and straighten as the bloom forms. This looks the same as Emma`s original Acapulco Blue so I`m pretty sure I have the pot labeled correctly.

I`m pointing out that Acapulco Blue shares a characteristic with a Columbia YO25 wild nil. The sepals bend back and straighten as the flower forms and blooms. they also bloom late in the year.

I thought this was very interesting and cool if I do say so myself. Karen

I wonder if there is any hope that mine will still bloom before Christmas....

Here is a link I got from Ron to help in comparisons between nil and indicas.

http://www.cs.umb.edu/~whaber/Monte/Plant/Conv/Ipo-blu-2.html

I have to be brave and honest with my thoughts and say the Acapulco Blue appears to be a wild nil because of the shape of the sepals,they bloom in November and if they prove to be a annual and not perennial here in my zone then I will lean even more on the nil side of the equation.

I think some controlled crosses would help though they may or may not be conclusive. As always, I could be wrong and that is only a guess and an opinion to take or leave.

Karen

Gardener2005,

Very interesting thoughts and analisis. Your detailed explanations and comparisons I feel are worth exploring.even further. Nice research and objectivity. TTYL

Dee

Yes,there are rare wild nil's that have re-curving sepals...

I was hoping to address that at some future point because most people are still
getting used to the basic rules of thumb as per I.nil and I.hederacea identification and I thought that introducing the aspect that a few rare wild I.nils have recurving sepals would throw an unnecessary 'monke wrench' into the basic ID concepts and have more of a tendancy to confuse people...
but apparently the plant hardware is running ahead of the 'software'...so I guess everybody is going to have to incorporate that some relatively rare wild nils can have re-curving sepals at some stage in the calyx development...

There are many different strains of wild I.nil from various areas of Colombia and Iran and not all of the wild strains from either Colombia or Iran show the same sepal features...many wild strains from Colombia and Iran display the more common I.nil sepal characteristics which evidence little to no sepal curving...backward curving of the sepals on I.nil are an unusual exception to the general I.nil characteristic rules of thumb...

The plant which is the main subject of this thread was collected in Acapulco,Mexico and is displaying sepal characteristics most often seen and associated with Ipomoea indica and to a lesser extent to relatively rare and uncommon strains of I.nil...

Ipomoea indica can display relatively matured sepals that can arch or curve backward
http://www.weeds.org.au/images/weedident/V03-1.jpg
http://www.weeds.org.au/images/weedident/V03-2.jpg
and this backward curving of the flowerbud sepals of Ipomoea indica as observed (at different calyx developmental stages) by those very familiar with 1st hand growing out of different strains of I.indica is not usually present on Ipomoea nil nor exclusive to the early flowerbuds of the rare strains of I.nil from either Colombia or Iran...


The sepals of the strain cf.Acapulco look to me to be more characteristic of I.indica (including the backward curving sepals displayed on the early flowerbuds) than the relatively rare I.nil strains that show backward curving sepals...the small (and often overlooked/disregarded) secondary bracts (at the base of the peduncles and pedicels) displayed on this strain cf.Acapulco look to be more characteristic of I.indica than of I.nil...

The strain cf.Acapulco roots very readily which is characteristic of I.indica and less so for I.nil...the relative paucity of hair on stems and more particularly on the sepals is more characteristic an ID of I.indica than I.nil...

So,I am still leaning towards an ID of Ipomoea indica but there are still additional characteristics to be examined e.g.,

the behavior and structure of the roots,the sepal structure of the different stages of seedpod development,the distribution of any/all hairs,the presence or complete absence of primordial root nodes at the petiole/axial junctions(common on I.indica but unreported on I.nil),the number of pedicels per peduncle(which so far is in favor of I.indica),additional examinations of sepal tapers and the structure of the actual seeds still needs to be more thoroughly examined...


It is so rewarding and honorable to see more people taking an active interest in and devoting their time to studying the details of botanical identification much more seriously...hope the trend of devout interest in such structural details continues and is not just a sporadic and categorical fluke or 'flash in the pan'...

TTY,...

Ron

Jackie. . .
Thank you. Yes, this MG really is an awesome color.

Beth . . .

re:
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/p.php?pid=4215251

If your plant is in a container, you could move it in now couldn't you?
Also, this plant roots VERY EASILY. I've even rooted them in water.
Maybe you could anchor a couple of vines from the mother plant into a separate container and get a start of new plants, and you can also take cuttings and root them in water. I did that last year with success, but didn't watch them and let them die. The roots became massive and I should have potted them up then but didn't.
They continued to bloom for the longest while in water too.

However, this year I already have a couple of vines rooting in soil from the mother plant before I cut it away. This plant will have long vines that I hope will continue to bloom right away. . .
AND, I will also be rooting cuttings in water again to see what luck I have with them over the winter.
We never know in Texas when we will get our first freeze. It just 'appears'.
So-
when that day comes I'll be pulling down all of my vines to save as many seed pods as I can so the freeze doesn't get them.
We've had a couple or so days of 39 & 40's, but the temps are going to start climbing back up to the 70's to high 70's over the next week +. Then who knows after that!
Right now my ACAPULCO BLUE is still blooming away and I should get seeds this year from it without a problem.

Do let me know if you need more seeds.

Here are photos that I took a couple of weeks ago.
Most of these the temps were cool here so the blooms didn't open until LATE DAY, and continuted to stay open through the night. Some photos were taken at 8pm.

Emma

Acapulco Blue #02

Acapulco Blue #03

Acapulco Blue #04

Acapulco Blue #05

Acapulco Blue #06

Acapulco Blue #07 SQUARE BLOOM

Acapulco Blue #08 SQUARE BLOOM
Back View

Acapulco Blue #09 SQUARE BLOOM
Another Back View

Acapulco Blue #10 SQUARE BLOOM
One more photo

That's beautiful Emma! Think I might have to request a few of those!

Sandy

Acapulco Blue #11 SEED POD
I've been taking many photos of the Seed Pods maturing.
Here are only a couple of photos from yesterday

Thank you Sandy . . .
Acapulco Blue #12 SEED POD

PS:
Ron, Thanks so much for your usual GREAT INFORMATION about this beautiful MG