lessons learned for next year #4

Yep, I hear you, Zen. Plus farther South it's starting to be bad, but z. 6 is just a little milder, and a little STRANGER!

And remember, "GLOBAL WARMING DOES NOT EXIST". The gospel according to G. W. B. That's right, warming might not exist, but Global Climate Change certainly does.

Carrie - I love your spin on Global Climate! Personally, I will take all the above freezing weather I can get. I hibernate in the winter along with my garden.
Elaine

Careful not to say that Global Warming does not exist to loudly, the Nobel committee might take back Al Gore's prize.

Oh I would love to hibernate, I moved here after living in warm climates. The Middle East, Southeast Asia, Africa and South America. We didn't have to do anything like shovel the white stuff.

I like to hibernate too! Going to put out jugs for my first time of winter sowing this year. Late Dec. early Jan. they will go out. Glad I can ignore them until it is warm out! I think that is what got my attention with this winter sowing. LOL

Capecodgardener - it was simple to figure out which seeds to start when - I went to the winter sowing website and looked at when people started their seeds and when they were successful

Here is the link - just look up your zone :-)

http://www.wintersown.org/wseo1/Seed_Lists.html

Thanks, Seandor!
So I go to the zone 7 germination record, and check the month that people sowed their seeds. . . that's not difficult.
Thanks!
I'm starting to get excited about those jugs I've been saving all year in my basement. . . I look around at my autumn beds, and imagine them blooming with new babies next spring/summer/fall. My dilemma is that I want instant gratification with annuals, and WS plants generally take longer to get up to size (than seeds grown under lights, for instance). . . . but when they do, WS plants are sooo healthy and transplant so well! And they're cheap!!
So I am a committed WS-er. Thanks for your help.

GLOBAL WARMING DOES NOT EXIST. It's warmer some places, colder some places, WETTER most places. Mostly warmer at the poles. Well, OK, it might exist.

x, C

if for some reason you are having difficulty saving enough winter sowing containers try contacting an appartment building/sr. appartments. There are so many people in one place that if they all (or most of them) save for you for a week or two you will have all you need.

I'm new around DG--just found this thread. Today I checked out a video by Dave on how to make paper pots for winter sowing. Have any of y'all watched it? Seems like a good idea to me and it would be free and not as clumsy as handling all those milk jugs, etc. When you winter sow do you put the w/s pots outside? Dumb me, I was just going to plant the seeds in the paper pots and nurse them along in the house. guess I need to check out that hyperlink that Seandor sent along. :o)
--Oh, me, I have so much to learn!

I am just learning about the w/s myself. I can tell you marsue that they do go outside. It is a lot of reading but if you start with part 1 and read all through this thread to part 4 you will get a pretty good education. Where is the video on paper pots???

LOL, I do too! Learning is fun though. The paper pots would be good for "watched" sowing, like maybe inside. The winter sowing concept would require at least a 4" depth of soil. That's why recyleable containers are so useful and hold up to the weather conditions over the course of the winter season til spring. Prep'em, sow the seed, and leave outside in the shade somewhere safe until the weather warms. Then you'll vent the containers at some point when the seedlings emerge.
I'm not stalking you, Marsue, I promise! You and just seem to be making the rounds at the same time. ROFL!

sjweld, go to the Guides and Information tab on the Home page. Videos are one of the choices in that tab.

Thanks, I still need to learn to browse more!

Gee, I never thought you were stalking me, cordele/Deb! LOL I think you and I are going to become 'best buds'! (little play on words there)--we seem to be interested in the same threads. and thanks for telling sjweld where the videos are--I already forgot where I found them. LOL
There's so much to explore and learn about here. I love DG!

Marsue, I've been here a few months and STILL get lost and forget how to get somewhere. I'm hoping I'll catch on pretty soon!!! LOL... Welcome! I'm sure you'll love it, I sure do!
Pat

I tried a few paper pots once and they did not do well. The volume of soil is small and they dry out too much. I even had them in a larger tray, then enclosed in a container with a lid. In spring, the lid needs to be opened and the paper pots then dry out. They did not work well for me and I won't use them again. Some folks like them, I do not.

Gallon milk jugs are my favorite. I shoot for 3 to 4 inches of soil. I work and I'm not here to babysist the babies, and I don't WANT to have to worry so much about moisture after the weather warms in spring. A gallon jug holds lots of moisture. If I run out of gallon ones, I switch to half gallons.

Also, jugs don't collapse under mounds of snow.

Karen

Well, I started my seeds like everyone else - then after they are 2 sets of leaves, I put them into paper pots on the verandah until they were ready to plant outside. It was rather labour intensive. Not sure I will bother this year -

It worked great for many of the annuals. Oh - there is that moment in May, when the nurseries are filled with plants and all you have are these little bitty things and you wonder was it worth it? But in July - all those little pitty things (and I had hundreds!) were taking off - nobody in our neighbourhood had a garden so luxuriant!

Seandor, do you mean that next year you will leave the little seedlings in the jugs for a longer time and just skip the step of transplanting into little pots? Putting them right into the ground? That's pretty much what I did . . . had some rather overgrown jugs as Spring progressed and I got busier, but most things did quite well when I finally planted them out.

Until wintersowing the rule of thumb here was never plant out anything before Mother's Day, mid May.

Two years ago, my first attempt at WSing, I planted out some perennials and hardy annuals early, I think around mid April. Poppies and batchelor buttons loved it, as did a lot of other things. I held back on tenders, like zinnias, until around the second week of May. It worked great. I did the same this year and don't see that changing.

My stuff goes right from jugs to ground. Potting up 60 or 80 jugs is just way too much work. That would move gardening from the "fun hobby" to "another job" category for me. All my plants are in ground by late May.

Karen

>>That would move gardening from the "fun hobby" to "another job" category for me.

Too funny Karen... but so true.

last year was my first year WS'ing ... and IIRC after that last blast of COLD weather we had in April [remember we well all covering plants] we warmed up nicely and i started planting out a few items [including my tomatoes] the first week in May or so... but it was well before the last frost warning date, which i think for us is mid-May.

I did find that a few plants that i held out for, because i thought they were too small, did not grow anymore in the containers and i should have just planted them out too and not wait for them to grow more, which they didn't.. not until i got them in the ground.

i do think for a few of them, i wanted them bigger since the rabbits were eating all my seedlings... but they didn't grow any bigger in the containers.

I may have to check with some of the folk from Arkansas on the mid-south gardening forum and see if they wintersow. I'm not even sure it is necessary for us to do that. We don't have to worry about "mounds of snow", thank goodness, and although we did have a late freeze at Easter-time in 2007, that is a very rare occurrence around here. On Freecycle, I found a lady nearby who told me she has LOTS of milk jugs and orange juice containers and she has already washed them so they are nice and clean. I might have to take advantage of that offer and go ahead and try the winter sowing anyway. Stay tuned. . .

I think this year I will space out the seeds more so they can grow in the containers better before I plant them out. I also found that the plants REALLY take off once they are in the ground.

So, I will probably go that route.

Ohhh, I can't wait!!! Seandor, did you use the dave method of paper pots, in his video? I think there's another, sturdier, way to make them.

x, Carrie

Here are the instructions for the paper pots I make. I make them during the evening while DH reads aloud to me. Currently reading "Sharpe's Eagle."

http://www.geocities.com/newspaperpots/

Cheers,
Michaela

That looks like a lot of work! I think Dave's would be ok if you are using them in the house to give seeds a 6-8 week head start (not winter sowing). I am going to try Dave's way, maybe doubling the paper so it will be a little stronger/thicker. I'll try to remember to come back and report results.

Michaela, like paper hats, or boats! I'm not sure my dumb fingers will do it, and we'd have to steal newspapers from the neighbors. But that IS more what I was thinking of.

I used Dave's method for some seeds I started inside and found that they were ok for inside planting. They would never have worked for winter sowing. You can't get 3-4" of soil in them, they dry out fast and would have crushed beneath the snow. Even if you don't have snow I don't see them standing up to wind, sun and rain.

I had some paper pots in zippered plastic bags that blankets came in, it worked out okay. They were under the overhang on the porch where snow wouldn't pile up much. We could get big snowstorms here or none at all.

Gallon jugs were the easiest though, for sure.
Now I use the bags for trays of cuttings and I don't have to water for them weeks.

claypa: I agree. I think milk jugs can't be beat. That's all I'm planning to use again.

Karen

I had lots of two-liters too, but the gallon size is a LOT easier to get the plants out of. I might try some three-liters if I can't scrounge enough gallons.

Where do you get enough potting soil for that many gallon jugs? I used soda bottles which were horrible + impossible to get stuff out of!

x, C

Our garden center/nursery had a sale on 'gardener's gold', 4 for the price of three... I added turface and sand and peat moss to some to stretch it out.

Soil-less mix works better if you can find it... as a matter of fact, we should be buying that NOW, before the stores put all the gardening stuff away for the season.
I remember well the blank stares at lowe's, etc., looking for soil-less mix in December.

A new single-edge razor blade will open any plastic up without too much trouble.

Seandor: I went to that hyperlink you sent about making the heavier kind of paper pots. I must be some kind of dummy because, for the life of me, I can't get past step #8! I don't have a clue unless you have to slit the folds somewhere along the way.

I buy compressed bales of ProMix. If I remember correctly those bales are compressed to 2 cu ft., loose is double that. One bag of that goes a long way.

Karen

marsue. It took me the longest time to figure that out I finally did. This was last winter and I am not sure I remember how now.

Well, I'll keep trying! I need to get my son over here (he's 35 now). When he was little, before he could even read, he could look at the directions on how to put something together (model cars, etc.) and, boom!, he would have it done in no time. He has just always been gifted that way--sure didn't get it from me! LOL

I used paper pots one year for poppies and petunias. Made square ones, placed them close to each other, and set them in deli containers with a small layer of soil under them. Pain in the arse. They worked well enough, but by the time the sprouts were ready for planting out, the pots were kinda moldy and yuck. I just ripped down one side of each pot and planted the entire thing.

I never used milk jugs for WSing before, but this year I tried half-gallon jugs for some summer sowing. That size works for my needs and I like them, so my cat and I have been drinking a lot of milk lately.

PV

Is that your poppies and petunias?

that's poppies .....

All this talk about milk jugs (and other 3-4 liter containers). . . just a reminder that many of them AREN'T translucent. But it doesn't matter! All I can find where I live and shop are the white, opaque ones. . . but they still work fine if you cut out "windows" in the sides for the light to go through. I also used 1 liter water and/or soda bottles, which were translucent, but much narrower and therefore harder to get the seedlings out.