Suggestion regarding Classified Ads

I have considered advertising in the Classified Ads here at DG on several occasions and am doing so again now, but one thing keeps stopping me - the prohibition from referencing Classified Ads in other forums. This prohibition seems to me to be both counterintuitive and counterproductive for all concerned - DG, its users, and its advertisers alike.

The Classified Ads, as far as I can tell, are not well known or frequently read by most DG users, so their value as an advertising tool is minimal. If their value in advertising is minimal, so will be their use and any income derived therefrom either by DG or its advertisers. Wouldn't it be to everyone's advantage to allow advertisers to reference their Classified Ads in other forums to draw potential customers to the ads and to the Classified Ad forum itself? Wouldn't promoting the Classified Ads Forum in such a way also promote classified ad income for DG?

I can understand DG's reluctance to allow flooding of forums with references to classified ads, esp. when the ads themselves are so inexpensive, but surely there is ample room for mutually beneficial compromise here. How about allowing a reference to a classified ad in a maximum of 5 other forums which directly relate to the product or service being sold in the ad? Perhaps the reference and requested forums could be included by the advertiser in the ad submission form so that DG staff could approve the other forum references as part of the ad approval process?

The bottom line is that if I had some way of letting my target customers know that I had placed an ad in the Classified Ads forum, I wouldn't hesitate to place an ad. As policy stands now, though, the Classified Ads don't have enough of an audience to make even their small price worthwhile for me.

Thank you for considering this concern.

Laurie

I am trying it out right now and it has been on the site about 24 hours. One ad the plants are basically gone plus more that i didn't even list because people dmailed me and asked for other plants..........

The other ad is 'kinda' sitting there because I need pictures to show................I have written administration to see if i could buy an ad with a flickr link to public pictures of what i am selling. That would be fabulous to me and it wouldn't take up space from DG...................and mission would be accomplished if people could actually see what they were ordering........just a thought..........and a wish......................

Gail, if people are really interested it's only a click to a google (or other) search.

i don't think you understand ....................I have many african violets which I lost the tag to..........nothing new for me.............so I am selling a lot of plants of all sizes for the same price..................they aren't listed as they don't have names................most of them are prettier than the named ones I have listed...................that is why I am waiting on an answer to hyperlink with pictures on flickr or some other program where they can see the plants which don't have names...........some are small and some are full grown in bloom..........a good deal either way but I like to see what i am buying, too.................

I have the Classified Ads under 'threads to watch,' simple as that. I check it everytime I'm at DG to see what's newly offered. I can see how the frecuent mention of ads would detract from a forum and why a rule preventing such is in place. Maybe there's a happy medium to be found somehow, as you say, without turning DG into yet another advertising platform which many would find distasteful.

Another thought on the "allowing the reference of the ad in 5 other forums..." Would that be one mention on one thread, or free rein to mention throughout all threads on one forum? I doubt DG staff has the time to police such things.

Maybe Dave and his elves could put a reminder of the Classified Ad forum in the weekly Newsletter? "See x# new ads in this week's Classified Ads..." Or even mention items in the ads..."see hostas, iris, homemade jam" etc etc as a prompt to the DG Newsletter readers to check the ads. Such a small mention might yield both more ads and more readers of the ads.

GessieG, is there a rule against linking to Flickr? I placed an ad last fall that had tons of links in it- photos, stories, movie clips even, from all over the web.

If that is the case, i am a lucky lady...............but I better wait to hear from DG..................maybe I ought to hyperlink to pixamo..................they are doing some beta testing with that right now and I have an account..........................
Soooooooooooo glad you posted and thanks again...................

Reminders about classified ads in the newsletter would be helpful, but only for those members who read the newsletter regularly (which I'm guessing is a pretty small percentage of DG users).

When I mentioned allowing reference to classified ads in a set number of other forums directly related to the product or service being offered in the ad, I was thinking of a single post on each allowed forum to notify readers of the classified ad offering. Repeated mention of the same ad on the same forum would certainly be unacceptable spam.

The fact is that classified ads ARE being mentioned on other forums, as are other commercial enterprises run by DG members. The only time those promotions seem to be policed and removed is when they are posted by the person who placed the ad or owns the commercial enterprise. As long as promotional posts are made by other people who presumably don't profit from the promotion, nobody seems to mind. Is that an unwritten "rule" - that promotional posts are allowed as long as you get one of your DG friends to make it for you instead of making it on your own behalf? Wouldn't it all be much more above board and acceptable if DG just rewrote its policy to allow reasonable notification of classified ads on other related forums?

Laurie

laurief.............there is nothing to be upset about.............everyone is just tossing around some good ideas...............
That very thing you seemed so upset about happened to me today and it was not planned........I made a post wishing someone a happy birthday with a photo............the birthday person whom I don't really know said, "I like that plant........what is it?"......................someone who had worked on the ad with me and just bought some plants from me said, "go to classified ads........she is selling them"...............this was not planned or a plug............so do you think there is going to be a committee around to interpret what the intent of the poster is????????????????????????????

I'm not upset. I'm merely stating what everyone already knows - that promotions happen on the forums all the time. It just doesn't make sense to me to restrict promotions of classified ads in a manner that inhibits financial gain for both DG and its advertisers. It's happening anyway. Why not just go ahead and allow it in a controlled manner?

Laurie

Gail, I think you need to re-think the Pixamo link. If you have another public site your photos reside it's easy enough to include a link to those. One for each plant. If you go through the Classified Ads you'll see it's been done. Pixamo is not yet a click-and-view site for non-subscribers.

gee, thank you.................you saved me so much time.................what if i had put them under pixamo..................thanks again so much.......................will do on Wednesday (i am sure it will take me most of the day.........I am slow)................

Laurie, the no-self-promotion rule is spelled out in the Acceptable Use Policy: http://davesgarden.com/aboutus/tos/ - see paragraph 9.

Our feedback from the ads is that they do very well for most people, and given the repeat business we've received from several vendors and individuals, they must pay for themselves.

Unfortunately, I don't see any way we could enforce any sort of limit on the number of references to an ad, and we frequently remove self-promotion posts and spam from the forums. (DG is a choice target for all sorts of advertisers, who would love to be able to use our forums to promote their businesses.)

If you enjoy the lack of spam when you read and participate in the DG forums, you should thank your DG friends ;o) Countless members help us keep the forums free and clear by reporting spam when they find it and we are grateful for their help.

I'm afraid if we provided an exception to that rule, it would give a green light to spammers, who wouldn't understand - or care - about the distinction for classified advertisers, and it would make our job a lot tougher to decide if each self-promotional post was allowed or not.

Dave may consider adding something to the weekly newsletter to feature the new ads, or run a weekly reminder and link to check them out...I think that would be a great idea, actually.

Gosh, I hate to put my two cents in when it is not asked for, but
I'm actually glad the 'no promotion' rule is in effect.

The Classified section was designed so members could promote and sell
their wares without the flavor of "Come to my Tupperware party." in the middle
of a discussion about daisies.

I'm a member of Daves first and foremost because it is THE garden
site which allows me to incessantly ramble about plants twenty four hours
a day if I so choose. The family is not that understanding. ;-)

In my opinion, if it were a free-for-all, it would not have the same atmosphere
and I would be less likely to visit as often as I do. Besides, I joined Dave's for
the fun, the friendship, the knowledge. Not to rent a booth.

Laurie, please know that my post is not in rebuttal to yours, I'm just rambling
off my own thoughts.

Certainly I agree that it would be nice if Dave's Garden would help promote
the section, but I'm not sure how. Maybe (haven't looked, maybe it already
exists) there could be a Classified Ad Forum where members are free to
post away? That just popped out, I haven't thought it through. LOL.

:-) KM

That's exactly the problem, WUVIE. There IS a Classified Ads forum that I suspect the vast majority of users don't even know about or ever visit. There are currently only 14 ads on the forum ... out of HOW MANY DG users???

Clearly the Classified Ads forum needs to be promoted a lot more effectively in order to draw reasonable ad revenue either for DG itself or for its potential advertisers. If allowing notification posts in other forums isn't the answer, then I believe the Powers That Be are going to have to figure out other means of promoting the Classified Ads before they'll become a viable and valuable advertising resource for the majority of DG members.

Laurie

I was not asked for my opinion either, but for what it is worth, here it is. I can see both sides. I do not think sellers should be allowed to promote their own ads. Most would gently point toward their ad a time or two and that would be fine, but there are those few who would visit every single forum, screaming in all caps about their ad. Nobody wants that. In this particular case, I think erring on the side of nothing is better than all.

However, I would like to see the Classified Ads promoted a bit more. I'm not sure what the best way to do that would be, so perhaps my opinion is of no help at all. There is a link to the Classified Ads on the home page beneath the tabs, but I'm sure there are a lot of people who haven't even noticed it. Perhaps a link to Classified Ads at the top of each forum in larger, colored text?

Oh, oh, okay, I didn't realize the Classifed section was itself a forum.
I thought there was a Classified section as well as a forum to discuss it.
Just now I visited to see what it was all about. It seems I visited a long time
ago, but had forgotten about the ads.

Well. Five bucks for two weeks. Not bad, but as you mentioned, one
thread about rare vines has but 269 views. However, there is a link to
the person's website, so I wonder if maybe everyone just visited the
site directly. I'll be honest, I would likely visit a listed website before I
responded to a classified ad, mainly to see what it is all about.

As there are three pages listed, but only one having active ads, it appears
they are cleared from time to time, which does make sense, considering
the ad is valid only for two weeks.

I'm just blabbering out loud at this point. LOL

There is not a doubt in my mind that people don't visit unless somehow get wind of the classified ads..................people kept dmailing me saying, "Would you please tell me ahead of time next time".............nothing I can do..........it is just a hit or miss anyway you look at it...............although I am going to take out another ad and hyperlink to flickr.............I just don't have time right now...............didnt realize how restricted this site is..................there is no discussion or ability to even edit an ad..............

***************edited to say it may be necessary (I will let you know later after I upload to flickr) to have a web page as i get tired of saying over and over ................Spiritual Corridor and Steaker are sold , for example..........there is no way to change to show that item is gone.............it appears that you will have that plant for sale.................

This message was edited Oct 2, 2007 10:28 AM

$5.00 for 2 weeks is a great deal ... or at least it would be if the ads were being read by a significant percentage of DG users. There's no doubt about that. I have no idea how many ads have been placed since the Classified Ads started in July 2006. But the fact that there are only 14 current ads generated by a community of almost 330,000 members indicates to me a lack of adequate promotion of the Classified Ads.

I just think the Classified Ads have the potential to do great things for DG and the DG community IF they are effectively promoted, however those promotions may occur.

Hi Laurie,

Glad you mentioned the 330,000 members. I have to wonder how
many of them are actually paid members.

My own bad habit is to join a website free of charge, then wander
off and completely forget about it.

Dave, Terry, or other mod, is there something that tells you how
many of the members, paid or not, are actually active? Surely there
are plenty of lurkers as well. Just curious.

KM

Terry -- I agree with your response:

Is it possible that there are so few ads because the majority of us have nothing to sell? If I did, I wouldn't hesitate to pay 5 bucks to have even a couple of hundred people look at my ad. That's practically free. I spend that much on coffee every day.

I have classifieds as one of my favorites. When I see a NEW pop up, I click over. But if i have no interest in the item, I don't click on it. So just because only 300 people actually viewed it, does not mean many more didn't see it.

I would hate ads in the forums.

my 2 cents

The ads were put in as a way for DG members to promote themselves without spamming the forums. We have members who want to get the word out about their home-based business. Some vendors use it to run specials, or promote awareness of their plant/seed business. Some members use it like the local newspaper classified ads to announce an item for sale.

Our goal wasn't to create a major revenue stream from them; the $5 fee provides a small deterrent to spammers looking for avenues to hawk Nokia phones, cheap knockoff purses, etc. The few of those that are submitted despite the fee are declined.

I think there is a fallacy in thinking that just because you weren't aware of the ads (or that there aren't more of them) automatically means they don't work. Those who have tried them seem to be satisfied with the results ;o)

I am!!!!!!!!!!!!!....Tomorrow i am putting a third ad linking with flickr with what is left to sell. People ended up buying plants I never intended to sell, but I got excited with them (LOL)when they asked for other plants...........

I always would forget to check out the Classified Ad forum .... finally added it to my "watch" list and since re-arranging my home page I now see if there are any new posts to Classified's and can remember to check them out. I'm bad ... if it's not staring me right in the face I never remember to look at it.

Well, this gives me a good reason to add the forum to my favorites.

Many thanks, all!

There is a link on the top of the homepage at DG -- I notice it when I'm checking my homepage to see what new watched threads have come to the forefront. Here's the header:

Here's a link to more thoughts about Classified Ads:
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/780003/

Just out of a clear blue sky one day, i decided to start clearing my shelves of gro lights as i want some new varieties (kept a leaf to propagate from the plants on the ad)..............they were gone in less than a week. It was a win-win situation for all of us..........i priced them much lower than a vendor and we all won.

the last packages go out tomorrow............I thought it was easy to do...............

Thanks! Seems like what I'd be interested in doing with some plants.

I had suggested a long time ago that i would like a reminder in a box to the right when there is an ad listed that pertains to the forum I am on. More simply said If I went to the daylily forum ,to the right in a box there could be a reminder that says "There are 3 ads for daylilies in the classified ads section" When a person places an ad give them one choice of what they would like this reminder to be listed. This could be totally controlled by Dave and each member( if you chose in preferences whether you would like this reminder or not.) I buy from classifieds very often but I get caught up in forum talk,posting pictures, and looking things up that I forget to check for new ads. thanks just my two cents. Most people are dmailing another dger right now to post or start a thread about their ad for them. No rule against that . Cindy

River, I like that idea!

:-) KM

Excellent point regarding the "preferences", Riverland!!!

Please post that idea here: http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/780003/

THANK YOU!

I'm sorry pirl but that link doesn't go anywhere for me. You have my permission to post it anywhere you like. Cindy

Thank you, Cindy. I'll copy, post and give you credit. It's under Irises: Japanese and Siberians if you'd like to see it.

I appreciate your willingness to share!

Cindy: I had copied your post and was ready to paste when I saw Dave has posted and made his decision.

Thanks anyhow.

where did Dave post?

See Irises and look for the thread I started recently on Japanese and Siberian irises. It was a thread about the advantages of ads over co-ops and vice versa.