Could this be Scarlett OHara? Or just another wanna be?

I found this in some mixed vines from Komeri. This is the first bloom and the leaves are tri lobed. So you think it might be her or not?

it should be red

"Red" morning glories (I`m pretty sure about the nils) come in shades of magenta modified by genes...they don`t occur in really red like a stop sign.

The SOH I remember from years ago was what I`d call a wine red color.

I think my camera is not picking up the color correctly. It makes it look purplish and it isn`t purple. Maybe I`ll take more pictures and see if they come out right.

This message was edited Jun 30, 2007 1:22 PM

all most a magneta

Here's mine, although it does have the white eye.

This morning I went and found more blooming. I noticed this bloom Is purply looking. Ths one is not SOH. Now I did find one that brought back memories.

I`ll start another thread for this one. This one is another SOH possibility.

Here is another comparison of three. I thought the flower on the far left looked the most like the SOH I remember. But my camera is messing with the color. These in person looked magenta. They looked way far from purple in person. The one in the middle does have a different look toward purplish than the other two which both looked magenta in person.

I guess I don`t have it.... or I cannot represent the color correctly with my digital camera.



This message was edited Jul 1, 2007 2:11 PM

They look magenta on my monitor. They're magnificent!

Thanks!

Yes, the color is probably ok on the one on the far left but the tube becoming white halfway down seperates this one from the true to type SOH.

Who cares you guys????????????? The color is show stopppping and the throat is not white. This is a wonderful addition of theos solid colored throated mgs we all love. Inbreed this one Karen, it is worth it.Frank

I care about trying to preserve the features of old fashioned cultivars that are almost lost...

The SOH that Gourd got was more of a pinkish color and did not look like the SOH stock that it came from...

I think there is something in Gourds environment that is causing reversed tubes and lighter colors...

I didn't grow any SOH this year as I was expecting all those that I gave the old strain seeds out to >to grow it out...it is definitely Red and with a solid tube...

TTY,...

Ron

P.S. - I agree with Frank that some of the other similarly colored flowers are worth preserving...

This message was edited Jul 2, 2007 11:17 PM

It is true you could breed for the traits to bring back the true to type SOH. It would be like trying to save an endangered species I suppose. You want to scan the field to see if there are any possibly "out there". The true old fashioned ones could be peacefully growing in someone`s Grandma`s back yard in middle Tennessee for all we know. I saw a vine at the plant swap I went to and I`m going to request seeds from her and try that one.

I`m going to mark and save that flower on the far left because it is the closest I have seen in these commercial seed growouts to what SOH is supposed to look like. It does have more white down in the tube than the one I remember growing but it still brought back memories seeing it as I walked up.

If Gourd`s seeds are being manipulated by the environment it is possible the seeds might grow out different or still be true to type in a different environment...unless they have mutated some way.

This message was edited Jul 2, 2007 7:54 AM

It would be possible to breed out the white in the tube. I`m unsure if it is carrying for the solid tube or would only throw the ones with the white in the tube.

The white marking is dominant so you`d have to do a cross and then a growout of 30 - 40 seeds to select the solid tubes for tying blooms. You may have to do several to find one or two with the correct color as well because in the F2 growouts you will find a lot of variants popping up at first until you get the selection down.

I`m going to look around again this morning because I stilll have more on the way.

No more edits allowed. Anyway,Gourd`s seeds could be grown out and crossed with a selected flower to deepen the color and include the solid tube. Then the F2 growouts of selfed seeds would yeild a possible one or two that came out perfect. Then you`d still have to do more growing and selctions over 3 or more generations. Eventually factors making the color lighter would be bred out and you`d bring back the SOH.

Do you suppose Gourd`s flower looks lighter because the picture was taken indoors? Also a flash can alter the appearance of a flowers color. Just curious.

I have strain 67 growing. Strain 62 has not germinated yet. I can't wait for blooms, thanks Ron!

I. parasitica #362 is growing, too. I'll get a photo when the cotyledon opens fully.

This message was edited Jul 2, 2007 9:27 AM

Byndeweed Beth, That is very good news to hear.

I`m getting in touch with a lady who has a vine I remember in her yard to check and see if she is still saving seeds from it.

I might as well post another of my SOH nots.

Here is the last one:

This message was edited Jul 2, 2007 2:47 PM

In the interest of finding a SOH, I stopped at a local nursery on the way home from work. I found Scarlet O'Hara (yes, it's labeled w/one t) mg seeds from the LoneStar Seed Co. The picture on the packet is not an actual picture, but looks like a hand painted pic that's been copied a few times. The picture has a color of gardener2005's flowers, but the description states it is a "vivid scarlet". So. We shall see.

I have to say, I got some SOH seeds a few years back from a private party in a seed exchange. They've been sitting in my seed box all that time. I never planted them. But with the current "search for the TRUE SOH" I decided to plant them all a few weeks ago. They've all come up and are growing well. I can't wait to see whether or not they'll be the true SOH. I do know what they should look like. I'll post pics when they bloom. Fun, isn't it!!

Does anyone have a link or photos of a true SOH? What I see in PlantFiles is contradictory . . . most of the pix show the white center. EmmaGrace has a pic that is solid (it's more a bright pink though). I'm also wanting to know about leave shape/color, etc.

Emma Grace's SOH is what they're supposed to look like.

Hi Judith and Syrumani,

MY SOH Blooms that I grew to get this bloom
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/88943/

Was by far one of the prettiest that I've grown. . .
HOWEVER, if you look closely, it DOES have a White Throat.
These particular blooms just didn't have 'as large' of a White Throat as others I've grown and seen.
AND, it was not the TRUE RED, but a Deep Dark Rose-Red.

I will be growing out some of Ron's SOH seeds this year, so keep your fingers crossed that we will see the REAL SCARLETT O'HARA.

Emma

How about this RED!

*ha* just playing around

..this is the closest I have to a SOH. It was just labeled "dwarf climbing pink". It does have some lighter color deep down in the tube... Pretty none the less.

I have never grown nor seen a true SOH...so I really don't know how red it is.

Arlan

This message was edited Jul 2, 2007 11:27 PM

Very Pretty Bloom, Arlan.

The REAL Red Scarlett O'Hara, I would 'guess', should have a red about the color of this bloom.

Emma

Yep, that's what Ron say's.

ditto

soh, ok. The original photo on this thread, with a stunning type of magenta and a solid throat, is better than owning all the soh wannabees. Pulease, prove out that wonderful flower that started this thread.......it is by far, superior to soh. We should not live in the past , but look to the future for what we can develope , what we can improve, and I think this color with a solid throat is light years ahead of soh.

Syrunami, I agree with you. I just don't want to wast my time and money anymore on aka mgs.

The color of the flower originally posted is a superior flower, by any standard, and we are still talking about something that we possibly won't ever have.

It is obvious to me that soh has not been maintained over the decades, through hand polination and culling. It may not even exist anymore. BUT, Karen, I would buy seeds from that flower anytime. Please keep going with it. The quest for the original soh, may just be in vane. Oh so, Karen please maintain that solid color, and introduce it as a new name. But stabilize that color. Maybe you could name it Rhet Butler. I am serious.

I feel better now, since all my soh seedlings got the mold plague, as well as well as all the purpureas that I soooooo looked forward to cross polinating,(Rebecca, Kniolas black).

It is interesting that in the three feet border around my half acre lawn, which I sprayed with roundup 6 weeks ago, guess what. Morning glories are coming up everywhere. I haven't let them bloom in 17 years. This year I am going to to see what they are.. Frank

I'm nowhere near the league you guys are in with these flowers but....that being said.... The only mg that is currently blooming for me is a deep purple with pinkish violet lines coming out of the center. A beautiful flower. Now I didnt label what I planted (I did warn you that I was a newbie) but I do know that I planted, among other things, some Scarlet O'haras. I thought that these blooms were from the only Grandpa Ott that I'd gotten at a ru. They look similiar to the first photo.

I like maintaining some antiques and preserving history in the present whilst looking towards the future... others may not...it's a question of a combination of choice and personal aesthetic appreciation...

Enjoying anything that was created in the past is not necessarilly 'living in the past',but simply enjoying > in the present >something that was created previously ...

Is there a 'time limit' on the appreciation of Artistic creations...(?!)...e.g., I happen to enjoy Egyptian art and JSBach...I'm not living in 3000BC or in 1725AD...just believe that Art is timeless and that quality never goes out of 'style'...and that Real(!) Beauty IS in the Eye of the Beholder and not in Things...

Generally speaking....

I'm not interested in trying to 're-create' the Real SOH because I've had it,still have it and it has been maintained...and shared...

TTY,...

Ron

We all have different and also very valuable and interesting points of views on this. My opinion is there is nothing new under the sun. The genes for the colors and modifiers can be written on paper and either they have them or they don`t.

My flower is a rich color I like so I`ll probably breed it with another I notice with a darker throat. Maybe I`ll call the new flower Rhett Butler. If noone likes it I`ll say frankly,my dear,I don`t give a...dar n. I`m kidding around a little and getting off track. I may or may not come up with something. It`s in the flowers and depends on if I happen to grow the right ones. There is hard work and good timing involved in this.

The way I see it any flower I breed out to be true to a type Could be the ones people are slobbering over and wanting to preserve after I`m long gone. There`s a legacy one can leave here if you do your homework and put in the effort. Doing something with what you have now is something I learned from my Grandparents.

All flowers are meant to be enjoyed whether rarely seen or common. Everyone has different taste and favorites in shape forms and colors.

Seed saved from the past is exiting to think about too. Heirlooms are one way to get a feeling you are there back in a time when things were different and you associate them with loved ones you knew who are passed away. I`ll always think of my Grandmother when I see touch me nots and sweet william. I also took after her because I recall she had flowers covering her porch and every square foot of her property. I have a orange lily I couldn`t get a dime for on ebay that is a prize to me because it came from my uncle who has passed away.

Then here I have Japanese Morning Glories in every climbable space and flowers all around just like guess who? My Mom reminds me. You got the green thumb from your Grandma.

I`m looking forward to seeing the original 1939 heirloom morning glory named Scarlett OHara.







This message was edited Jul 4, 2007 9:10 AM

Yes, Karen's SOH NOT is incredibly beautiful and I do hope it continues to grow TRUE!

However,
Frank --- anyone?

Have you EVER really seen a REAL RED Morning Glory that has a LARGE BLOOM?
Ipomoea quamoclit is a TRUE RED, but such teeny-tiny blooms!

I think it would be awesome to bring one back to enjoy now and in the future.
Too bad there weren't folks that tried to keep this species true that grew the REAL SOH over the years.

But The Real SOH WILL surface one day, and maybe sooner than we all think. . .
After all, Wedding Bells made a come back!

Emma

have not seen a real red in a morning glory ...yet

Emma and Karen,

I`m growing this JMG and the blooms are deep red. It`s from the Japanese special mix pack. The flower is average size 4-5 inches and the leaves well you can see they are solid green. It`s not SOH but is a true red. There will be seeds to share.

I have another JMG that blooms big red pentagon shaped flowers and I`ll post it here in a few.

Dee

This JMG blooms big red pentagon shaped flowers. I only have one of these growing and it`s name is currently unknown. This plant has long vines and the flowers are 6-8 inches. There are lots of seed pods so I will have seeds to share.

I do have SOH growing from 3 different Japanese packs but none have flowered as of yet. So we`ll see what happens later.

Dee

Dee,
VERY INTERESTING!

Emma

Dee, those are stunning. Save ALL your seeds for the people who see this flower and covet it!

Yess Emma, I agree. The only drop dead fire engine red or stopsign red I have seen were the pictures on seed packs. It is sad that in theplant breeding group of gardeners, we rush to put RED on the lable.
It happens in many groups of plants. Have you ever seen a drop dead red, Iris, narcissus, lilly? Many flowers as red as a rasbery get labled red or crimson. Crimson Rambler, get real.

What if some breeder came up with a strawberry red mg. How could they lable it to indicate the purity of the red? They couldn't. All those names have been taken by various shades of pink.

People, the only final arbiter, and universal color decider, is the Royal Horticulure Society's color chart. Nobody can argue against a match in that standard. It is universally accepted. We should all own one. Maybe we should make a groop purchase. It is the supreme court of color decisions. Poke me with a fork, I am done, good night, love you all......... Frank

Frank you are too funny!
And, now that you mention it, No, I have never seen a real Red Iris.
Wouldn't that be a knock-out.

Never even thought about there being a color chart for plant blooms, but it certainly makes sense. I'd love to see one.

Thanks Frank,
Emma

Too bad the full size chart is 135.00Sterling. It is also out of stock until October. There is a quarter size version for 25.00Sterling, for those interested. I'm not quite at the point where I could justify that particular purchase, but maybe someday!

Nichole

It would be very interesting to have Anne-X analyze what the RHS chart for red is as per spectral analysis...

Ipomoea quamoclit is almost pure red by spectral analysis
http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/717091/
http://davesgarden.com/forums/fp.php?pid=2824389

Is the RHS chart available for free online anywhere(?)...

TTY,...

Ron

This message was edited Jul 6, 2007 5:08 AM